Political Roundtable Part IX

[JWizmentality]

That could get interesting. Waiting for a legitimate news source to break the story.

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[I_Like_Dirt]

You're right, I don't decide nor do I care about what offends a certain person. But I do care when that person affects policy and corporate decisions. Like I said there are real issues out there. Having a depiction of black person being lynched as your table piece in a public restaurant is something to be upset about. Some kid resting her elbow a top another's head is a level of absurdity I cannot begin to wrap my head around. And if that really upsets you, well God help you because you must live a rather miserable and bitter existence if that's your threshold

Absolutely. Free speech is great and I whole-heartedly agree with it. It's another matter, though, to try to accommodate by policy based on what somebody might possibly interpret in a certain way. It can't and shouldn't be so easy as to make a blanket statement that whatever somebody calls racism should be accommodated. Rights are great and absolutely necessary. So are responsibilities, and we have a responsibility as a society not to create an atmosphere where if a person complains enough, they get what they want no matter how poor their reasoning.

As far as blaming the Gap, that's a little too easy. Of course the Gap will go along with it. They basically get free publicity for an ad that otherwise wouldn't have garnered nearly the amount of attention it has now, and they get to look all apologetic to those sympathetic with the critics who called the ad racist (and yes, DCZ, while this definitely might be better discussed on a forum of racial sensitivity, the critics of the ad have already defined the discussion as racist, so I'm not sure why we should put words in their mouths when they've clearly said otherwise). Free speech is great, but just because somebody cries wolf or racism doesn't mean that a significant portion of the population should just go along with it every time and support those who have been offended for whatever perceived reason.

Shillary's campaign chairman is linked:

LOL that didn't take long.

I still expect Hillary is going to win the nomination, but she's going to have a really hard time getting voters out in enough numbers to vote for her in the presidential race. It's nice to think that a lot of people will come out to vote against Trump or Cruz, essentially voting for her in the process, but it's a pretty big stretch to expect that people are going to care that much about her when push comes to shove. And I don't expect Bernie is going to make a huge deal out of this, even if he mentions it a bit. He's pretty much above such things, or largely has been, to this point, which is a credit to his principles, but also gives Hillary a bit of an illusion that such things play better large scale than they really do.

[TGW]

That could get interesting. Waiting for a legitimate news source to break the story.

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Here's more...I don't expect the Clinton News Network and MSNBC to say a word about it since their ownsership, Time Warner, has donated thousands of dollars to Shillary.

http://freebeacon.com/issues/panama-papers-implicate-podesta-client/
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/clinton-campaign-chief-linked-to-russian-bank-listed-in-panama-papers/article/2587741

[DCZards]

Kinda tired of debating this Gap issue. So I’ll end my contribution to the debate with this quote (which pretty much sums it up for me) from an article on HuffPost about the controversy. The link to the article is at the end.

“The reality is that there are so few positive, powerful representations of black women and especially black girls out there that, frankly, it’s unsurprising that the photo would touch a nerve. That nerve, really, is where we should focus. That sensitivity, no matter how “over the top” it may seem to those who don’t get it, is still valid. It comes from a real place. It comes from a place that so many of the (mostly white) decision makers in the world of media are oblivious to. Perhaps if there were more black people and other people of color in positions of power in media and advertising, controversies like this one could be avoided.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-backlash-to-this-racist-gap-ad-is-complicated_us_57027254e4b0daf53af01148

[dckingsfan]

Given that the entire list will almost certainly never be released, I'm not so sure there were virtually no American citizens on it. To be honest, that's the sort of action (not releasing the entire list) that is going to cause all sorts of conspiracy theories and only serve to further increase anti-American sentiment, given that the American government was most upset with Snowden and Wikileaks and crying to try and have those things not released fully for fear of their national self-interest.

That said, personally, I don't expect a lot of names there, but I won't be shocked if, a few years from now, we don't see a leak that does include a lot of Americans on it, albeit probably from another country/company. Eventually, somebody is going to be disgruntled both at their employer and at the US from one of the tax havens that gets used more frequently by Americans. I see a lot of fear out there among the larger and wealthier institutions to try and keep this story calm and out of the way at this point, even though for the time being they don't have anything immediate to worry about.

I think you would have to dig deep to find any Americans in there... again, we are the masters of setting up shell corporations in our own country.

Shillary's campaign chairman is linked:

Clinton is linked to Sberbank, Russia’s largest bank, through Podesta Group, a lobbying firm co-founded by Clinton’s campaign chairman John Podesta and his brother, Tony Podesta, a major Clinton bundler.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/05/hillary-clinton-ties-emerge-in-panama-papers/#ixzz454SewMeB

LOL that didn't take long.

Well done! That is surprising to me...

[dckingsfan]

Kinda tired of debating this Gap issue. So I’ll end my contribution to the debate with this quote (which pretty much sums it up for me) from an article on HuffPost about the controversy. The link to the article is at the end.

“The reality is that there are so few positive, powerful representations of black women and especially black girls out there that, frankly, it’s unsurprising that the photo would touch a nerve. That nerve, really, is where we should focus. That sensitivity, no matter how “over the top” it may seem to those who don’t get it, is still valid. It comes from a real place. It comes from a place that so many of the (mostly white) decision makers in the world of media are oblivious to. Perhaps if there were more black people and other people of color in positions of power in media and advertising, controversies like this one could be avoided.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-backlash-to-this-racist-gap-ad-is-complicated_us_57027254e4b0daf53af01148

I think that is the part we shouldn't concentrate on... sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees.

[popper]

Winter's coming. I don't envy the next president and the difficult choices he or she will have to make to rightsize government spending. I scratch my head whenever I hear that we should implement a large infrastructure program. We're basically broke and will soon need to cut govt. spending by $500 Billion a year, minimum.

GAO: Debt will grow to three times the size of the economy
By JOEL GEHRKE (@JOELMENTUM) • 4/6/16 1:46 PM

The national debt is on pace to keep growing over the next 20 years and eventually become three times the size of the U.S. economy, the government's top auditor warned lawmakers Wednesday.

"The federal government remains on a long-term unsustainable fiscal path," Government Accountability Office Comptroller General Gene Dodaro said during a Senate Budget Committee hearing.

Entitlement programs such as Social Security and Medicare drive those numbers, along with interest payments on the federal debt………

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/state-dept.-on-iran-sanctions-relief-its-complicated/article/2587853

[dckingsfan]

Popper - don't really like the article or the source. But it does make an over the top point. And that is that we have a spending problem.

But none of the candidates are even remotely talking about the elephant in the room. So, it isn't going to be addressed by the next president.

[dckingsfan]

Clinton is linked to Sberbank, Russia’s largest bank, through Podesta Group, a lobbying firm co-founded by Clinton’s campaign chairman John Podesta and his brother, Tony Podesta, a major Clinton bundler.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/05/hillary-clinton-ties-emerge-in-panama-papers/#ixzz454SewMeB

Okay, so there weren't any Americans on the list - just a lobbyist linked to the Russians...

[popper]

Popper - don't really like the article or the source. But it does make an over the top point. And that is that we have a spending problem.

But none of the candidates are even remotely talking about the elephant in the room. So, it isn't going to be addressed by the next president.

From TedCruz.org

• To shrink the size and power of the federal government, the Cruz Five for Freedom plan eliminates the IRS, the Department of Education, the Department of Energy, the Department of Commerce, and the Department of Housing and Urban Development. As President, Ted Cruz will appoint heads of each of those agencies whose sole charge will be to wind them down and determine whether any programs need to be preserved.

• Ted Cruz will empower the people by reducing the alphabet soup of Agencies, Bureaus, Commissions, and other programs that prop up special interests, at the taxpayer’s expense. The Cruz Five for Freedom Spending Plan identifies an initial 25 programs.

• The Cruz plan re-institutes President Reagan’s Grace Commission to assess federal spending levels and evaluate areas of waste and fraud. Ted Cruz would appoint private-sector leaders to serve on a commission that, as President Reagan put it, would “work like blood hounds” to improve government efficiency. The original Grace Commission report recommended 2,478 “cost-cutting, revenue-enhancing” suggestions, without raising taxes, weakening defense, or harming social welfare.

• A President Cruz will hold Congress accountable by enacting a strong Balanced Budget Amendment and requiring that a majority of members approve any major, cost-inducing regulation. And he will reduce costs by instituting a hiring freeze and federal pay reforms.

[dckingsfan]

Popper - don't really like the article or the source. But it does make an over the top point. And that is that we have a spending problem.

But none of the candidates are even remotely talking about the elephant in the room. So, it isn't going to be addressed by the next president.

From TedCruz.org

• To shrink the size and power of the federal government, the Cruz Five for Freedom plan eliminates the IRS, the Department of Education, the Department of Energy, the Department of Commerce, and the Department of Housing and Urban Development. As President, Ted Cruz will appoint heads of each of those agencies whose sole charge will be to wind them down and determine whether any programs need to be preserved.

• Ted Cruz will empower the people by reducing the alphabet soup of Agencies, Bureaus, Commissions, and other programs that prop up special interests, at the taxpayer’s expense. The Cruz Five for Freedom Spending Plan identifies an initial 25 programs.

• The Cruz plan re-institutes President Reagan’s Grace Commission to assess federal spending levels and evaluate areas of waste and fraud. Ted Cruz would appoint private-sector leaders to serve on a commission that, as President Reagan put it, would “work like blood hounds” to improve government efficiency. The original Grace Commission report recommended 2,478 “cost-cutting, revenue-enhancing” suggestions, without raising taxes, weakening defense, or harming social welfare.

• A President Cruz will hold Congress accountable by enacting a strong Balanced Budget Amendment and requiring that a majority of members approve any major, cost-inducing regulation. And he will reduce costs by instituting a hiring freeze and federal pay reforms.

But Popper - all of what he is saying (even if he could actually do it) won't balance the budget with you cutting entitlements and raising taxes.

And yes, the chained-CPI is a good step forward but increasing the age when an individual can receive benefits is regressive. Poorer people die younger. Now, if he was going to tie the benefit payout to income + the chained-CPI + raising revenue ~ 20% of GDP, well then, we are having a discussion. But his tax plan (although not terrible) would reduce receipts by close to 800B over the next 10 years.

But I guess to your point - it is better than most of the others.

[popper]

Popper - don't really like the article or the source. But it does make an over the top point. And that is that we have a spending problem.

But none of the candidates are even remotely talking about the elephant in the room. So, it isn't going to be addressed by the next president.

From TedCruz.org

• To shrink the size and power of the federal government, the Cruz Five for Freedom plan eliminates the IRS, the Department of Education, the Department of Energy, the Department of Commerce, and the Department of Housing and Urban Development. As President, Ted Cruz will appoint heads of each of those agencies whose sole charge will be to wind them down and determine whether any programs need to be preserved.

• Ted Cruz will empower the people by reducing the alphabet soup of Agencies, Bureaus, Commissions, and other programs that prop up special interests, at the taxpayer’s expense. The Cruz Five for Freedom Spending Plan identifies an initial 25 programs.

• The Cruz plan re-institutes President Reagan’s Grace Commission to assess federal spending levels and evaluate areas of waste and fraud. Ted Cruz would appoint private-sector leaders to serve on a commission that, as President Reagan put it, would “work like blood hounds” to improve government efficiency. The original Grace Commission report recommended 2,478 “cost-cutting, revenue-enhancing” suggestions, without raising taxes, weakening defense, or harming social welfare.

• A President Cruz will hold Congress accountable by enacting a strong Balanced Budget Amendment and requiring that a majority of members approve any major, cost-inducing regulation. And he will reduce costs by instituting a hiring freeze and federal pay reforms.

But Popper - all of what he is saying (even if he could actually do it) won't balance the budget with you cutting entitlements and raising taxes.

And yes, the chained-CPI is a good step forward but increasing the age when an individual can receive benefits is regressive. Poorer people die younger. Now, if he was going to tie the benefit payout to income + the chained-CPI + raising revenue ~ 20% of GDP, well then, we are having a discussion. But his tax plan (although not terrible) would reduce receipts by close to 800B over the next 10 years.

But I guess to your point - it is better than most of the others.

You're more familiar with the details than I am with regard to the budget. I defer to you. At some point in the not to distant future we're going to have to make some very painful adjustments. We would have been far better off implementing some or all of the bipartisan Simpson-Bowles recommendations. Now we're really in deep trouble.

[dckingsfan]

Yeah, I think that for Ds, making adjustments to entitlements is a non-starter. For Rs, increasing taxes even incrementally is a non-starter. And for both parties, living within our receipts is a non-starter.

We are already paying for that (and the Fed's policies) in terms of the differential in wages, infrastructure, R&D funding, etc.

Not sure what it will take for the parties to come together and actually take care of business.

[JWizmentality]

Kinda tired of debating this Gap issue. So I’ll end my contribution to the debate with this quote (which pretty much sums it up for me) from an article on HuffPost about the controversy. The link to the article is at the end.

“The reality is that there are so few positive, powerful representations of black women and especially black girls out there that, frankly, it’s unsurprising that the photo would touch a nerve. That nerve, really, is where we should focus. That sensitivity, no matter how “over the top” it may seem to those who don’t get it, is still valid. It comes from a real place. It comes from a place that so many of the (mostly white) decision makers in the world of media are oblivious to. Perhaps if there were more black people and other people of color in positions of power in media and advertising, controversies like this one could be avoided.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-backlash-to-this-racist-gap-ad-is-complicated_us_57027254e4b0daf53af01148

That premise is wholly and utterly false. Neither you nor the Huffington Post any idea of the racial makeup of the team that produced this ad. Some Twitter user got offended and you immediately assumed this was done by a group of white people behind closed doors. It is also wholly and utterly false that this ad would not have seen the light of day if a black woman were involved in this. Plenty of black women do not have a problem with it and would have green lighted it. Starting with the parents of this little girl whom the experience has now been ruined for. What is your argument then? You are exploiting a very legitimate issue and propping it up behind a very illegitimate issue. More diversity does not = no elbow on little black girls head and is not the catalyst to use have that conversation. And as a black man I reject the condescending notion of "those who don't get it." There is nothing to get here and someone being upset at it DOES NOT validate the concern. That's like me saying I don't like the fact Spam is 790mg sodium, it shows a lack of concern that black people are far more susceptible to high blood pressure. Over the top? Maybe but It comes from a real place. It comes from a place that so many of the (mostly white) decision makers in the world of media are oblivious to. Perhaps if there were more black people and other people of color in positions of power in canned food industry, controversies like this one could be avoided.

[JWizmentality]

Lol turns out they are adoptive sisters. Way to go internet warriors!!

http://www.popsugar.com/moms/GapKids-x-Ellen-DeGeneres-Ad-Called-Racially-Insensitive-40805102

You know, when I used to go to church I remember the pastor once told me "You can be so heavenly bound, you do no earthly good."

For some reason that stuck with me and contributed to reason why I reject modern day religion and christianity, most of whom I see as nothing more than modern day Pharisees. Now I generally meet people who are so racially sensitive, they effect no meaningful change.


Sad.

[dckingsfan]

In the news - the Treasury locks down on inversions - I think this is good but then keeps us from having to make the meaningful changes to the tax code that are killing us. And, it will embolden the next President to just skip the legislative process. Politicians are sooooo good at kicking the can down the road.

More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments - nice program - sigh. This was a really stupid idea in the first place. No credit checks, no cosigners no screening people for their preparedness for college-level course work - and you expect any other kind of outcome.

And now the federal government is trying to do government savings accounts and get people out of 401Ks and IRAs - why? We are short cash - really quite unbelievable.

[nate33]

Now I generally meet people who are so racially sensitive, they effect no meaningful change.

Well said!

[TGW]

is it just me, or has this thread gone wonky (technically speaking... we went wonky content-wise awhile ago).

[AFM]

No, this page is all F'd up. Most the quotes are gone and the alignment's all out of wack. I blame nate33

[JWizmentality]

It's because whiny liberals temporarily brought out the conservative in me and I ripped a hole in the Realgm time continuum. I usually keep him chained to a heater in the nether regions of my hippocampus but sometimes the little bugger manages to shut down the entire left side of my brain, and it's days before I realize what's happened and I get the system up and running again.