Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4)

kron100 · Post #141 » by **kron100** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 2:44 am

Get Sabonis this is a no brainer

S ID · Post #142 » by **S ID** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 2:48 am

please win kings please

S.W.A.N · Post #143 » by **S.W.A.N** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 2:48 am

Saciid11 wrote:
S.W.A.N wrote:
sweetcity wrote:so people are pro Thon Maker over guys like Luwawu?

F No!!

Thon can be option A for our own pick. Luwawu is right at top of the mix for Knick pick. Huge difference.

I'd still take Sabonis over Thon 6-7 times.

Thon Maker won't be there when we are picking and Luwawu is nothing special ... At least Thon Maker has the highest potential in this draft, besides we drafted Bruno with the #20 pick and Thon Maker way better prospect and much more NBA ready then Bruno..

Sabonis a big man with T. rex arms, lacks athleticism, lacks shooting range.. Hmmm career in Europe or deep bench player ..

I'll hold off judgement of his measurements until combine. His shooting range is an area of discussion. He hits foul shots are good rate and I think he has a better outside shot than his time at Zaga showed. Combine and workouts will determine his position, but I think he has the highest floor of any of the bigs in question because he is excellent rebounder with high motor.

If he performs well in workouts I think he's a top 10 pick. If his measurements and other testing disappoint then yes he falls to back end of first round, but I still think he could be a better hansbro. Luwuwu vids and stats look good, I comfortable with what I've seen so far.

Thing is, we can talk any guy up at this stage, but until combine and workouts happen, there is a vast amount of movement in where guys are potentially taken.

Gold Dragon · Post #144 » by **Gold Dragon** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 2:59 am

S.W.A.N wrote:
Saciid11 wrote:
S.W.A.N wrote:
F No!!

Thon can be option A for our own pick. Luwawu is right at top of the mix for Knick pick. Huge difference.

I'd still take Sabonis over Thon 6-7 times.

Thon Maker won't be there when we are picking and Luwawu is nothing special ... At least Thon Maker has the highest potential in this draft, besides we drafted Bruno with the #20 pick and Thon Maker way better prospect and much more NBA ready then Bruno..

Sabonis a big man with T. rex arms, lacks athleticism, lacks shooting range.. Hmmm career in Europe or deep bench player ..

I'll hold off judgement of his measurements until combine. His shooting range is an area of discussion. He hits foul shots are good rate and I think he has a better outside shot than his time at Zaga showed. Combine and workouts will determine his position, but I think he has the highest floor of any of the bigs in question because he is excellent rebounder with high motor.

If he performs well in workouts I think he's a top 10 pick. If his measurements and other testing disappoint then yes he falls to back end of first round, but I still think he could be a better hansbro. Luwuwu vids and stats look good, I comfortable with what I've seen so far.

Thing is, we can talk any guy up at this stage, but until combine and workouts happen, there is a vast amount of movement in where guys are potentially taken.

I think Thon really needs to show A LOT in the workouts just to make it as a 1st round pick. All he is right now is a combine and workout type player. The question is whether any of that can translate into a game situation and he has not really shown that and doesn't have any more chances to show it.

His workouts need to be really special to give him a 1st round grade and they need to be otherworldly to get him into the lottery. I don't see either happening.

BoyzNTheHood · Post #145 » by **BoyzNTheHood** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 3:12 am

Saciid11 wrote:
S.W.A.N wrote:
sweetcity wrote:so people are pro Thon Maker over guys like Luwawu?

F No!!

Thon can be option A for our own pick. Luwawu is right at top of the mix for Knick pick. Huge difference.

I'd still take Sabonis over Thon 6-7 times.

Thon Maker won't be there when we are picking and Luwawu is nothing special ... At least Thon Maker has the highest potential in this draft, besides we drafted Bruno with the #20 pick and Thon Maker way better prospect and much more NBA ready then Bruno..

Sabonis a big man with T. rex arms, lacks athleticism, lacks shooting range.. Hmmm career in Europe or deep bench player ..

I have to agree with you here. Luwawu is not special by any means and taking him at 9 would be safe, but mediocre. This year we have a chance to truly swing for the fences for a guy ranked in the lottery. It's hit and miss, but you don't win championships with mediocre players. If I'm going safe at 9 I'd take Taurean Prince every time over Luwawu. Anyways, the point is to swing for the fences. You can't steal a base unless you don't fear being thrown out. Sure, Thon Maker or Skal Labissiere might be out of the NBA at the end of their rookie deals, and Luwawu might be a quality defender on a playoff team, but there's also the chance that Thon/Skal become defensive, shot blocking, floor stretching bigs while Luwawu is still just that solid defender. Screw that. You don't win championships by being safe and mediocre. Go hard or go home.

TheGoodDoctor · Post #146 » by **TheGoodDoctor** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 3:13 am

I can't tell sometimes if people just love Thon Maker because his sick name or his video game like appearance and highlights lol

Is he all just smoke n mirrors?!

I think the biggest things that hurt him is that he has such a weak base, scrawny legs and smaller hands that literally effect his game. It's huge upside because he can build up a stronger base and try to build up his legs over a few years. But it's his overall awareness of the game on both ends are pretty bad n it's tough to say that can be worked on.

He's just enticing because he actually has all the freakish physical qualities, you can see the huge talent that could be all his highlight reels but can he put that together mentally?! That's a huge gamble...

....look who is quietly The Talk of the Draft: Thon Maker

BoyzNTheHood · Post #147 » by **BoyzNTheHood** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 3:18 am

TheGoodDoctor wrote:I can't tell sometimes if people just love Thon Maker because his sick name or his video game like appearance and highlights lol

Is he all just smoke n mirrors?!

I think the biggest things that hurt him is that he has such a weak base, scrawny legs and smaller hands that literally effect his game. It's huge upside because he can build up a stronger base and try to build up his legs over a few years. But it's his overall awareness of the game on both ends are pretty bad n it's tough to say that can be worked on.

He's just enticing because he actually has all the freakish physical qualities, you can see the huge talent that could be all his highlight reels but can he put that together mentally?! That's a huge gamble...

If his coaches actually did something during his development he'd be the undoubted #1 pick in this draft. He doesn't know how to play the game yet, and that falls completely on his coaches' backs. Moving around probably had something to do it, but you'd think he'd know more than he does. I feel like time in the D-League with professional coaches will do him wonders. I'm also not worried about the strength in his legs because he'll have unlimited access to professional weight rooms. The only issue I have with him is his small hands. We all remember Kwame Brown who had miniature hands, but there have also been successful bigs with small hands like Amare Stoudamire.

S.W.A.N · Post #148 » by **S.W.A.N** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 3:46 am

BoyzNTheHood wrote:
Saciid11 wrote:
S.W.A.N wrote:
F No!!

Thon can be option A for our own pick. Luwawu is right at top of the mix for Knick pick. Huge difference.

I'd still take Sabonis over Thon 6-7 times.

Thon Maker won't be there when we are picking and Luwawu is nothing special ... At least Thon Maker has the highest potential in this draft, besides we drafted Bruno with the #20 pick and Thon Maker way better prospect and much more NBA ready then Bruno..

Sabonis a big man with T. rex arms, lacks athleticism, lacks shooting range.. Hmmm career in Europe or deep bench player ..

I have to agree with you here. Luwawu is not special by any means and taking him at 9 would be safe, but mediocre. This year we have a chance to truly swing for the fences for a guy ranked in the lottery. It's hit and miss, but you don't win championships with mediocre players. If I'm going safe at 9 I'd take Taurean Prince every time over Luwawu. Anyways, the point is to swing for the fences. You can't steal a base unless you don't fear being thrown out. Sure, Thon Maker or Skal Labissiere might be out of the NBA at the end of their rookie deals, and Luwawu might be a quality defender on a playoff team, but there's also the chance that Thon/Skal become defensive, shot blocking, floor stretching bigs while Luwawu is still just that solid defender. Screw that. You don't win championships by being safe and mediocre. Go hard or go home.

I'm not so sure Luwawu is mediocre. Excellent athlete, 3 point shot and good defender and excellent frame. I think his potential goes way beyond being just a quality defender.

The thing about Thon and Skal it they haven't shown anything yet. After combine and workouts I may warm up to them but right now they are about as Bruno as it gets. Complete high potential mysteries.

I don't believe you need to jump at every unknown to find high end talent. If we pick luwawu, Prince, Rabb, etc etc. it doesn't matter to me. I think we have a team in place that is very good at what it does.

If they pick Thon or Skal cool. But I'm not going to cheer for it without seeing something. At least with Luwawu and Sabonis I can see a body of work.

TheGoodDoctor · Post #149 » by **TheGoodDoctor** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 4:08 am

I'm a sucker for upside...f it I'm on ThyMaker HypeTrain.

Arguably as much upside as anyone in the draft...

*Funny aside, I notice BioSteel sponsored a lot of the facilities Thon has been playing in the last year...which of course just hooked us up that training facility

*ahem* didn't he just switch his citizenship to Canadian?! Thon is Coming

BoyzNTheHood · Post #150 » by **BoyzNTheHood** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 4:21 am

S.W.A.N wrote:
BoyzNTheHood wrote:
Saciid11 wrote:
Thon Maker won't be there when we are picking and Luwawu is nothing special ... At least Thon Maker has the highest potential in this draft, besides we drafted Bruno with the #20 pick and Thon Maker way better prospect and much more NBA ready then Bruno..

Sabonis a big man with T. rex arms, lacks athleticism, lacks shooting range.. Hmmm career in Europe or deep bench player ..

I have to agree with you here. Luwawu is not special by any means and taking him at 9 would be safe, but mediocre. This year we have a chance to truly swing for the fences for a guy ranked in the lottery. It's hit and miss, but you don't win championships with mediocre players. If I'm going safe at 9 I'd take Taurean Prince every time over Luwawu. Anyways, the point is to swing for the fences. You can't steal a base unless you don't fear being thrown out. Sure, Thon Maker or Skal Labissiere might be out of the NBA at the end of their rookie deals, and Luwawu might be a quality defender on a playoff team, but there's also the chance that Thon/Skal become defensive, shot blocking, floor stretching bigs while Luwawu is still just that solid defender. Screw that. You don't win championships by being safe and mediocre. Go hard or go home.

I'm not so sure Luwawu is mediocre. Excellent athlete, 3 point shot and good defender and excellent frame. I think his potential goes way beyond being just a quality defender.

The thing about Thon and Skal it they haven't shown anything yet. After combine and workouts I may warm up to them but right now they are about as Bruno as it gets. Complete high potential mysteries.

I don't believe you need to jump at every unknown to find high end talent. If we pick luwawu, Prince, Rabb, etc etc. it doesn't matter to me. I think we have a team in place that is very good at what it does.

If they pick Thon or Skal cool. But I'm not going to cheer for it without seeing something. At least with Luwawu and Sabonis I can see a body of work.

I shouldn't say Luwawu's ceiling is just a quality defender. I'd say his ceiling is someone like Danny Green or Josh Richardson, which is not a bad player by any means. I just feel like it's better to swing for the home run and miss than swing for a double and only make it to first.

With Thon it's the regular situation with high school prospects in that he's doing what he did against MUCH inferior competition to anyone else in this draft, and high school players always were and always will be humongous risks. Then again, some of the greatest players in league history have been drafted out of high school.

In terms of Skal, I posted in an earlier thread his stats when playing over 20 minutes per game. The most telling thing of all however was the fact that there was only a 10 game sample size! When given minutes Skal performed well. So, that tells me that Calipari really jerked him around this season. And to be honest, every game I watched for UK this season it seemed like as soon as he was getting a rhythm he found himself back on the bench. IIRC when he played over 20 minutes he averaged 13ppg, 4-5rpg, 3blk on 57% shooting. So, he leaves a lot to be desired rebounding wise but performs everywhere else that he needs to. His jump shot also leads me to believe that he'll be able to extend it to the NBA 3 with time. So what you end up getting is a shot blocking, stretch 4 which is very valuable in today's NBA.

Lastly, my fondness for Ivan Rabb is well documented. If I'm picking a solid player at the NYK/DEN I'd go with Rabb first, then Taurean Prince. But overall as of right now I'd go with Skal, Rabb, Thon and then Prince in that order.

P.S. if OG Anunoby declares those rankings change and he tops my list

UnderdogRaptors · Post #151 » by **UnderdogRaptors** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 5:31 am

TheGoodDoctor wrote:I'm a sucker for upside...f it I'm on ThyMaker HypeTrain.

Arguably as much upside as anyone in the draft...

*Funny aside, I notice BioSteel sponsored a lot of the facilities Thon has been playing in the last year...which of course just hooked us up that training facility

*ahem* didn't he just switch his citizenship to Canadian?! Thon is Coming

Welcome gooddoctor 8-)

kron100 · Post #152 » by **kron100** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 5:32 am

I have Sabonis ranked 5th behind Jaylen

deeps6x · Post #153 » by **deeps6x** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 5:32 am

Thon or Skal. Barf. We already have one of those 2 years away from being useful guys in the 905 that we wasted a first on. Yeah, you Bruno.

Prince over Luwawu? Hmmm, I'll assume you like Prince better because you know what level of competition he has played against in college. Otherwise... why? Very similar stats, same height, pogo stick jumping ability, I don't know about Prince, but Luwawu has huge hands. Don't know either player's wingspan off the top of my head. And Luwawu is a year younger playing against men right now. If you want to talk potential, give the edge to Luwawu.

The Nuggets pick, which will fall in the 8-11 range, isn't where you pick the players with the most potential. It is where you get a guy with a high floor that will definitely be able to contribute. Yes, getting a guy like Luwawu or Prince in this range is what we should be aiming for. Not the Skal or Thon types who are 99% potential at this point.

A) 7.9 TRB/40, .361 3pt%, .432 FG%, .514 eFG%, 20.8 Pts/40, 3.0 AST/40, 1.7 STL/40, 1.0 BLK/40, .551 TS%, 20.3 PER. Prince

B) 6.1 TRB/40, .372 3pt%, .398 FG%, .482 eFG%, 18.8 Pts/40, 3.6 AST/40, 2.2 STL/40, 0.5 BLK/40, .521 TS%, 16.8 PER Luwawu

Yup, very close. IF we pick one of these two SFs, are we doing it with the intention of trading Carroll within a year or so? Perhaps the following summer?

I think the following summer, we might have bigger needs. A decision will have to be made about Kyle then. He is already 30. He will be 31 when he opts out next summer. Does he have the kind of game that will last through another 5 year contract? Should Masai even be considering maxing Kyle for his 31st to 36th years? I've seen a lot of players have their game turn to mush once they turn 30. And a very few, like Nash, who can just keep chugging along at a high level for longer than most.

However,... Man, if we pass on Valentine just because he is an inch shorter than Prince and Luwawu, despite being better at almost every measurable game statistic, ... well that just might be something we live to regret. Drummondesq.

C) 9.1 TRB/40, .444 3pt%, .462 FG%, .579 eFG%, 23.3 Pts/40, 9.4 AST/40, 1.3 STL/40, 0.3 BLK/40, .608 TS%, 29.7 PER. Valentine

Don't complain to me about his D. It is excellent when taken in context. Because he was so much bigger than his starting SG and SF, he HAD to guard the opposing team's bigger faster SGs and SFs and not the usual tiny PGs you normally see in college. Remember, this is the guy that beat out Hield, Ingram, Simmons (well he was disqualified last minute) for college player of the year. I just do not get why mocks don't have him as a top ten pick - yet. He shoots almost as well as Hield, clearly rebounds better than the SF's getting all the talk above, even rebounds better than half of the PFs that will be in the lottery, has a higher assist/40 rate than ALL of the PGs in the draft, truly excellent TS% and a very high PER as well. Personally, I'd take him over anyone but Ingram, Simmons, Bender and Murray. This guy is like the slightly smaller version, 6'6", of what you'd get if you crossed Draymond Green, 6'7", and Magic Johnson, 6'9". When you see something like this in the draft, how can you possibly pass on it? He could be our new Kyle. He is already better than Wright and Joseph. He can sub in at PG and SG perfectly, and even SF if needed.

I'd really like to see Valentine, Powell, Bruno, and the PF we add in June, be our new young gunz. If JV keeps developing, he could be the C that grows up with these guys.

Also, the PF should be Brice Johnson. Excellent rebounder, high motor, plays above the rim, and a perfect fit for an excellent passing player like Valentine. Picture Griffin and a 5" taller version of CP3. That could be your future Valentine/Johnson pairing.

Or the PF could be Deyonta Davis. He might fall that far. Or Skal. Or Benj Bentil. All would be great fits with Valentine.

But we can't be locked in on anyone I suppose until we see what the other teams ahead of us do in the draft. Unfortunately, I think that was Masai's problem when he made the huge reach for Bruno. Tunnel Vision. He could have had Hood, then traded for Bruno when some other team saw how incredibly raw he actually was. I hope he learned from that mistake and goes BPA. Worry about the fit down the road. These rookie deals are practically free compared to some of the monster deals that will be handed out this summer. Don't trade your picks/rookies away. Trade away your high or over priced talent for more high draft picks.

kron100 · Post #154 » by **kron100** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 5:34 am

Every draft theres at least 2 superstars that get drafted between 11-30 but I just don't see it this year.

Gold Dragon · Post #155 » by **Gold Dragon** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 5:41 am

S.W.A.N · Post #156 » by **S.W.A.N** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 6:13 am

deeps6x wrote:Thon or Skal. Barf. We already have one of those 2 years away from being useful guys in the 905 that we wasted a first on. Yeah, you Bruno.

Prince over Luwawu? Hmmm, I'll assume you like Prince better because you know what level of competition he has played against in college. Otherwise... why? Very similar stats, same height, pogo stick jumping ability, I don't know about Prince, but Luwawu has huge hands. Don't know either player's wingspan off the top of my head. And Luwawu is a year younger playing against men right now. If you want to talk potential, give the edge to Luwawu.

The Nuggets pick, which will fall in the 8-11 range, isn't where you pick the players with the most potential. It is where you get a guy with a high floor that will definitely be able to contribute. Yes, getting a guy like Luwawu or Prince in this range is what we should be aiming for. Not the Skal or Thon types who are 99% potential at this point.

A) 7.9 TRB/40, .361 3pt%, .432 FG%, .514 eFG%, 20.8 Pts/40, 3.0 AST/40, 1.7 STL/40, 1.0 BLK/40, .551 TS%, 20.3 PER. Prince

B) 6.1 TRB/40, .372 3pt%, .398 FG%, .482 eFG%, 18.8 Pts/40, 3.6 AST/40, 2.2 STL/40, 0.5 BLK/40, .521 TS%, 16.8 PER Luwawu

Yup, very close. IF we pick one of these two SFs, are we doing it with the intention of trading Carroll within a year or so? Perhaps the following summer?

I think the following summer, we might have bigger needs. A decision will have to be made about Kyle then. He is already 30. He will be 31 when he opts out next summer. Does he have the kind of game that will last through another 5 year contract? Should Masai even be considering maxing Kyle for his 31st to 36th years? I've seen a lot of players have their game turn to mush once they turn 30. And a very few, like Nash, who can just keep chugging along at a high level for longer than most.

However,... Man, if we pass on Valentine just because he is an inch shorter than Prince and Luwawu, despite being better at almost every measurable game statistic, ... well that just might be something we live to regret. Drummondesq.

C) 9.1 TRB/40, .444 3pt%, .462 FG%, .579 eFG%, 23.3 Pts/40, 9.4 AST/40, 1.3 STL/40, 0.3 BLK/40, .608 TS%, 29.7 PER. Valentine

Don't complain to me about his D. It is excellent when taken in context. Because he was so much bigger than his starting SG and SF, he HAD to guard the opposing team's bigger faster SGs and SFs and not the usual tiny PGs you normally see in college. Remember, this is the guy that beat out Hield, Ingram, Simmons (well he was disqualified last minute) for college player of the year. I just do not get why mocks don't have him as a top ten pick - yet. He shoots almost as well as Hield, clearly rebounds better than the SF's getting all the talk above, even rebounds better than half of the PFs that will be in the lottery, has a higher assist/40 rate than ALL of the PGs in the draft, truly excellent TS% and a very high PER as well. Personally, I'd take him over anyone but Ingram, Simmons, Bender and Murray. This guy is like the slightly smaller version, 6'6", of what you'd get if you crossed Draymond Green, 6'7", and Magic Johnson, 6'9". When you see something like this in the draft, how can you possibly pass on it? He could be our new Kyle. He is already better than Wright and Joseph. He can sub in at PG and SG perfectly, and even SF if needed.

I'd really like to see Valentine, Powell, Bruno, and the PF we add in June, be our new young gunz. If JV keeps developing, he could be the C that grows up with these guys.

Also, the PF should be Brice Johnson. Excellent rebounder, high motor, plays above the rim, and a perfect fit for an excellent passing player like Valentine. Picture Griffin and a 5" taller version of CP3. That could be your future Valentine/Johnson pairing.

Or the PF could be Deyonta Davis. He might fall that far. Or Skal. Or Benj Bentil. All would be great fits with Valentine.

But we can't be locked in on anyone I suppose until we see what the other teams ahead of us do in the draft. Unfortunately, I think that was Masai's problem when he made the huge reach for Bruno. Tunnel Vision. He could have had Hood, then traded for Bruno when some other team saw how incredibly raw he actually was. I hope he learned from that mistake and goes BPA. Worry about the fit down the road. These rookie deals are practically free compared to some of the monster deals that will be handed out this summer. Don't trade your picks/rookies away. Trade away your high or over priced talent for more high draft picks.

I agree with almost everything you're saying here, except the part about Bruno.

I still like the bruno pick at 20. He made excellent strides this year and will look the part next year. Exactly what they expected when they drafted him. Super high upside with a long learning cure. Something you do with a late first round pick. Swing for fence...

Valentine, if he can defend SF's without getting torched... I would gladly take him. Workouts will be huge for him.

artsncrafts · Post #157 » by **artsncrafts** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 12:24 pm

lol Sac cant even beat Minni! (neither could we)

Dan2087 · Post #158 » by **Dan2087** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 12:46 pm

Sac keeps 'resting' their good players

CoachJReturns · Post #159 » by **CoachJReturns** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 1:01 pm

We've got a full ticket of games in Thank Nation. I'm just hoping we don't fall lower than 9th now with a lot of teams resting their star players.

Tonight, April 8th, 2016:

Miami @ Orlando - Orlando needs to win one more friggin game for us.
New York @ Philly - Knicks refuse to sit Carmelo. lol.
Milwaukee @ Boston - Bucks need a win, or we could be faced with the reality of dropping a spot.
San Antoni @ Denver - Let's all pray that Pop doesn't rest everyone in this meaningless game for the Spurs.

artsncrafts · Post #160 » by **artsncrafts** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 1:08 pm

CoachJReturns wrote:We've got a full ticket of games in Thank Nation. I'm just hoping we don't fall lower than 9th now with a lot of teams resting their star players.

Tonight, April 8th, 2016:

Miami @ Orlando - Orlando needs to win one more friggin game for us. Joe Johnson is too good /green
New York @ Philly - Knicks refuse to sit Carmelo. lol. Philly is too bad
Milwaukee @ Boston - Bucks need a win, or we could be faced with the reality of dropping a spot. Boston tries to hard
San Antoni @ Denver - Let's all pray that Pop doesn't rest everyone in this meaningless game for the Spurs. Spurs will play Matt Bonner at PG as all 5 starters will rest

I am guessing a full sweep against the thank :noway: