Rookie Discussion Thread

[Quentin]

KAT now has the longest double double streak in the NBA this season at 14.

Timberwolves PR ‏@Twolves_PR 20h20 hours ago Minnesota, USA
KAT has his double-double (17 pts and 10 rebs), his 14th straight. That's the longest streak in the @NBA this season. #Twolves

[Goudelock]

Russell has 24 points so far. He's been the only good thing for the Lakers tonight. Yeesh

[dalton749]

Raptors 3rd string, rookie backcourt just beat up on Indiana.

Powell 27/6/4 on 11 shots
Wright 19/4/2 on 10 shots

[JellosJigglin]

Russell has 24 points so far. He's been the only good thing for the Lakers tonight. Yeesh

Had no idea there was a game tonight . I'll catch the 11pm replay.

DLo with 32 points (9/16), 2 reb, 2 assists (2TO) in 32 minutes.

Very efficient.

[RingsDontLie]

Russell has 24 points so far. He's been the only good thing for the Lakers tonight. Yeesh

Had no idea there was a game tonight . I'll catch the 11pm replay.

DLo with 32 points (9/16), 2 reb, 2 assists (2TO) in 32 minutes.

Very efficient.

The only issue with this is it was against a depleted New Orleans team, in a game that had zero meaning. Would of meant something if he produced this kind of game against a top team.

[Klomp]

Despite his superb first season, which has included being named Western Conference rookie of the month in all five months, there have been days where the title, the perfect game, even the playoffs seem light years away. On those days, Karl-Anthony will go to his phone and pull up a long text message he got from Saunders in July.

It's a blueprint for success in the NBA that Saunders sent him a couple months after he was diagnosed with lymphoma.

"I almost got it memorized in my head," he said. "It's something that keeps me going and lets me know that I'm doing right, that I'm making this dream a reality. I'm just trying every day to make sure that I let people know the last decision he made for this organization was his best one."
[tweet]https://twitter.com/APkrawczynski/status/718776214219919360[/tweet]

[Domejandro]

Man, I miss Flip Saunders so much, he turned this franchise around; it is tragic that he cannot watch Karl Anthony-Towns in flesh.

[HeartBreakKid]

Man, I miss Flip Saunders so much, he turned this franchise around; it is tragic that he cannot watch Karl Anthony-Towns in flesh.

I don't mean to speak ill of the dead, but how did Flip Saunders turn the Timberwolves around? They've been consistently bad for an incredibly long time, and last year they were the worst team in the league, and this year they're still one of the worst teams in the league.

[YourBuddy]

Yea explain to me, how a team with Karl Anthony Towns, Andrew Wiggins, Zach LaVine, Ricky Rubio, and Gorgui Dieng is in any better position than the team he inherited with Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio, and Nikola Pekovic.

Enjoy the pee in your cereal.

[HeartBreakKid]

Yea explain to me, how a team with Karl Anthony Towns, Andrew Wiggins, Zach LaVine, Ricky Rubio, and Gorgui Dieng is in any better position than the team he inherited with Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio, and Nikola Pekovic.

Enjoy the pee in your cereal.

Erm, I can't tell if you're being serious or not. You do realize that he did nothing special in particular to get to where he is now. You're essentially saying that Flip Saunders turned the Timberwolves around because the Timberwolves became the worst team in the league and got the #1 pick in the draft.

[YourBuddy]

Yea explain to me, how a team with Karl Anthony Towns, Andrew Wiggins, Zach LaVine, Ricky Rubio, and Gorgui Dieng is in any better position than the team he inherited with Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio, and Nikola Pekovic.

Enjoy the pee in your cereal.

Erm, I can't tell if you're being serious or not. You do realize that he did nothing special in particular to get to where he is now. You're essentially saying that Flip Saunders turned the Timberwolves around because the Timberwolves became the worst team in the league and got the #1 pick in the draft.

I sure hope you could tell I wasn't being serious. I don't know why he doesn't deserve credit for getting Andrew Wiggins, drafting Zach LaVine, trading Trey Burke and drafting Gorgui Dieng and Shabazz Muhammad. How many people were saying the Wolves would get anything remotely close to Andrew Wiggins for Kevin Love? The team he inherited was going to be stuck on the treadmill, the team that is left has one of the brightest futures in the league.

[HeartBreakKid]

Yea explain to me, how a team with Karl Anthony Towns, Andrew Wiggins, Zach LaVine, Ricky Rubio, and Gorgui Dieng is in any better position than the team he inherited with Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio, and Nikola Pekovic.

Enjoy the pee in your cereal.

Erm, I can't tell if you're being serious or not. You do realize that he did nothing special in particular to get to where he is now. You're essentially saying that Flip Saunders turned the Timberwolves around because the Timberwolves became the worst team in the league and got the #1 pick in the draft.

I sure hope you could tell I wasn't being serious. I don't know why he doesn't deserve credit for getting Andrew Wiggins, drafting Zach LaVine, trading Trey Burke and drafting Gorgui Dieng and Shabazz Muhammad. How many people were saying the Wolves would get anything remotely close to Andrew Wiggins for Kevin Love? The team he inherited was going to be stuck on the treadmill, the team that is left has one of the brightest futures in the league.

But nothing has actually been turned around yet...

It's nice that he traded Love for Wiggins and got something out of his disgruntled star leaving, but on the other hand, he also failed to keep his disgruntled star. To put things in perspective, Kevin Love in his last season as a T-wolve was more impactful and valuable than pretty much than all 4 players you just listed combined. Kevin Love for Andrew Wiggins is a good trade for the Wolves, but in a vacuum it is highly questionable Wiggins will even become the player that Love was at one point.

The real reason why the Wolves will be on everyone's watch list is because of Towns, which quite frankly, wasn't a hard pick for Sanders to make.


I actually do like Saunders as a GM (a lot more than his coaching), he has a good eye for talent, but it is bizarre to say that he "turned the Timberwolves" around. Not only are the Timberwolves dramatically worse than they were (and only became bottom feeders because Love wanted out, not because Saunders did not want to become a treadmill team, Saunders actually did not want to tank if I can remember correctly), but they haven't actually "turned" anything around yet, they can just as easily never get it together like the Kings or Pelicans.....or even like the T-Wolves of just a few years ago. I'm more optimistic of the T-Wolves than the Pelicans/Kings, but I'm just saying it seems like we're jumping the gun here.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Saunders got the ship going in the right direction. We haven't seen the Wolves "turned around" yet, but the future is brighter than it was when he took over.

[YourBuddy]

But nothing has actually been turned around yet...

The future of the team hasn't?

It's nice that he traded Love for Wiggins and got something out of his disgruntled star leaving, but on the other hand, he also failed to keep his disgruntled star. To put things in perspective, Kevin Love in his last season as a T-wolve was more impactful and valuable than pretty much than all 4 players you just listed combined. Kevin Love for Andrew Wiggins is a good trade for the Wolves, but in a vacuum it is highly questionable Wiggins will even become the player that Love was at one point.

Wut? He was hired 1 year before Love demanded a trade. Not to mention 98% of people said Love was going to demand a trade anyway. So now we are going to judge him for not being able to convince a superstar to stay in 1 year when most people felt it was a forgone conclusion that he was going to demand a trade anyway? That is absolute ridiculous. Wiggins doesn't even have to be as good as Kevin Love for Saunders to have gotten great value for him. Heck a bunch of Celtics fans were flooding the Wolves board that year with #6 pick, #17 pick, Sullinger and other scraps for Kevin Love. Those were awful offers and Saunders got incredible value for that trade and definitely would have put them on the treadmill.

The real reason why the Wolves will be on everyone's watch list is because of Towns, which quite frankly, wasn't a hard pick for Sanders to make.

If that were the truth people would be looking at the Pelicans the same way since they lucked into Davis. But that isn't the case because they have absolute nothing else built around him. The Wolves do.

I actually do like Saunders as a GM (a lot more than his coaching), he has a good eye for talent, but it is bizarre to say that he "turned the Timberwolves" around. Not only are the Timberwolves dramatically worse than they were (and only became bottom feeders because Love wanted out, not because Saunders did not want to become a treadmill team, Saunders actually did not want to tank if I can remember correctly), but they haven't actually "turned" anything around yet, they can just as easily never get it together like the Kings or Pelicans.....or even like the T-Wolves of just a few years ago. I'm more optimistic of the T-Wolves than the Pelicans/Kings, but I'm just saying it seems like we're jumping the gun here.

His first year as GM they won 40 games. So unless you want to hold the ridiculous double standard of losing Love. His first year wasn't actually bad as a GM. They only got worse because he was forced into rebuilding and then also dealt with a ton of injuries that year. Well if you think these Timberwolves are anything like the Love Rubio Timberwolves then there really isn't much debating.

No you are just trying to view winning games as the only criteria as turning things around. Heck, why don't we just take it another step further. Everything is a failure if you don't win a championship. Future of the team. Asset collection. Good trades. None of that matters.

[tsherkin]

Saunders got the ship going in the right direction. We haven't seen the Wolves "turned around" yet, but the future is brighter than it was when he took over.

Building on what KT said, the team has a bunch of reeeeeeally young talent on it right now, with some promising signs of improvement in Wiggins and Lavine, while KAT is busting it all out already. Yeah, they might not win 30 games this year, but they've nearly doubled their win total, they've improved on D and improved dramatically on offense.... and apart from their last season with Adelman in 2014, they haven't been at this level on offense since 2009, and they're better on D than they were back then.

There are definite signs of things turning around, I'd say. They haven't taken full flight yet, but they're on their way up, that's for sure.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Saunders got the ship going in the right direction. We haven't seen the Wolves "turned around" yet, but the future is brighter than it was when he took over.

Building on what KT said, the team has a bunch of reeeeeeally young talent on it right now, with some promising signs of improvement in Wiggins and Lavine, while KAT is busting it all out already. Yeah, they might not win 30 games this year, but they've nearly doubled their win total, they've improved on D and improved dramatically on offense.... and apart from their last season with Adelman in 2014, they haven't been at this level on offense since 2009, and they're better on D than they were back then.

There are definite signs of things turning around, I'd say. They haven't taken full flight yet, but they're on their way up, that's for sure.

Couldn't have said it any better myself. Your Buddy had a great post, as well.

[tsherkin]

The future of the team hasn't?

Yes, this is a good point. Even setting aside what I've written about the changes to offensive and defensive ability the team is displaying, I think it pertinent to note that the tone of the team is entirely different. They're now young and inexperienced, but riddled with compelling talents at various levels of development... much of which is 20 or 21 years old, and some of it quite prodigious already. Lots to be excited about and already quite a bit better than last season.

That's definitely the first step in turning things around, particularly in tandem with the optimism for the future.

No you are just trying to view winning games as the only criteria as turning things around. Heck, why don't we just take it another step further. Everything is a failure if you don't win a championship. Future of the team. Asset collection. Good trades. None of that matters.

Yeah, this is another thing worth noting: raw win total doesn't really describe process or context. They lost their head coach and Sam Mitchell isn't a genius coach. He isn't a dreadful one, either, but he's not Flip and while not his fault, that's a meaningful truth. And they're STILL better than they were last year and have just added KAT to the team... who went out and had a brilliant rookie campaign.

Lots of good stuff in YourBuddy's post here as far as why Minny should be viewed in a positive light right now. Hell, I'm a mild pessimist as to Wiggins' overall ceiling as a player, and even I can't look at him, Lavine, Rubio and KAT and go "daaaaaaaaaamn." That's a load of excellent youth right there.

FWIW:

Rubio: the old man at 25
Wiggins: started the year at 20, is 21 now
Lavine: same as Wiggins
KAT: 20 years old

Hell, even Gorgui Dieng isn't even 27.

That team is YOUNG.

[E-Balla]

Saunders got the ship going in the right direction. We haven't seen the Wolves "turned around" yet, but the future is brighter than it was when he took over.

Building on what KT said, the team has a bunch of reeeeeeally young talent on it right now, with some promising signs of improvement in Wiggins and Lavine, while KAT is busting it all out already. Yeah, they might not win 30 games this year, but they've nearly doubled their win total, they've improved on D and improved dramatically on offense.... and apart from their last season with Adelman in 2014, they haven't been at this level on offense since 2009, and they're better on D than they were back then.

There are definite signs of things turning around, I'd say. They haven't taken full flight yet, but they're on their way up, that's for sure.

Yeah. That said this is the hard part coming up though. If they lose Rubio they could dive back into sub 20 win seasons (and they probably will let him walk) and hopefully they keep a lot of flexibility and don't become the Pelicans (who are starting to look like KG Minnesota 2.0). Personally I'd like to see Minnesota go all out and try to make the playoffs next year by signing some defenders (something like Rubio and Mahinmi with maybe someone like Dudley if they have the cap space). They have a lot of young players with obvious offensive talent but they don't play defense yet (they do have great defensive potential tho). Rubio, Wiggins, Dudley, Towns, Mahinmi with LaVine as a 6th man could win some games.

Edit: Called NO the Hornets

[Domejandro]

Man, I miss Flip Saunders so much, he turned this franchise around; it is tragic that he cannot watch Karl Anthony-Towns in flesh.

I don't mean to speak ill of the dead, but how did Flip Saunders turn the Timberwolves around? They've been consistently bad for an incredibly long time, and last year they were the worst team in the league, and this year they're still one of the worst teams in the league.

I will preface all of this by saying that Milt Newton deserves credit as well, but given that Flip Saunders brought him in, I am going to broadly give Flip credit.

The Minnesota Timberwolves were offered Klay Thompson, David Lee, and Harrison Barnes for Kevin Love, Kevin Martin, and the thirteenth overall pick; Flip Saunders declined and we ended up with Andrew Wiggins. I will try to pull up a source on this, but I will ask for a leap of faith in the mean time, as I am 100% positive that Minnesota said "no", even though the narrative seems to have gone in the other direction.

Flip Saunders also extended Ricky Rubio before he entered free-agency which likely saved us a ton of money.

Flip traded Trey Burke for Shabazz Muhammad and Gorgui Dieng. Of course, one could argue he missed out on Giannis Antetokoumpo, but the point still stands.

Flip Saunders took a gamble on Zach LaVine with the thirteenth overall pick.

Flip Saunders drafted Bojan Dublivic with the fifty-ninth overall pick (time will tell if this is a good move).

Flip Saunders tanked at the end of last season to secure the best odds for the first overall pick (though I would concede that this could be viewed in a less positive light, haha).

Flip Saunders brought Kevin Garnett back.

Milt Newton brought Nemanja Bjelica over on a deal worth less that twelve million dollars over three years.


The two bad things Flip did was give Nikola Pekovic that awful contract, and make the dreadful Adreian Payne trade. Flip managed to turn a team doomed to fighting to make the playoffs (at best), into what is widely considered the best young core of players in the league within two years. Yes, a lot of dominoes fell in Flips favour, but without him Minnesota would have likely botched the Kevin Love situation and would be completely screwed.

One of the bigger things I loved about Flip (though this is slightly off-topic) was how likable he was. Almost everyone liked Flip; he kept his cards close to his chest, but he friendly with most people.

[HeartBreakKid]

The real reason why the Wolves will be on everyone's watch list is because of Towns, which quite frankly, wasn't a hard pick for Sanders to make.

His first year as GM they won 40 games. So unless you want to hold the ridiculous double standard of losing Love. His first year wasn't actually bad as a GM. They only got worse because he was forced into rebuilding and then also dealt with a ton of injuries that year. Well if you think these Timberwolves are anything like the Love Rubio Timberwolves then there really isn't much debating.

I mean they're not like the Love era Timberwolves, they're worse....The Love Era Timberwolves were riddled with injuries, not lack of talent.

I don't believe I inferred that Sanders lost a lot of games in his first season, that's just an assertions you made. The Timberwolves were never a "good" team, that doesn't mean that I was under the impression that they were Bobcat bad.

I already acknowledged that trading Love for Wiggins was a good trade for the Timberwolves, could you point out in the post where I said otherwise? It's also a no brainer trade on top of that....

No you are just trying to view winning games as the only criteria as turning things around. Heck, why don't we just take it another step further. Everything is a failure if you don't win a championship. Future of the team. Asset collection. Good trades. None of that matters.

Um, no - here is what happened.

Someone said Flip Saunders turned the Timberwolves around

I said no, because the Timberwolves suck and they sucked last year also, and they will suck next year as well. In other words, you are jumping the gun if you think Saunders turned the Timberwolves around, it's hyperbolic to think that the Wolves are going to become a great team already - they could end up like the Orlando Magic for all we know.

and to add on to that

Flip Saunders hasn't done anything special that any other suit would have done. His two biggest assets in Towns and Wiggins came in no brainer deals that anyone with common sense would have done - do you refute that or do you think that drafting Towns #1 overall required thought or trading a leaving free agent for the #1 pick in Wiggins wasn't something every GM would have jumped on?

Don't overrate Flip Saunders, he is a solid drafter and overall I think he was a good GM, but he hasn't performed miracles in Minnesota. Minnesota was a decaying team that was going to become awful one way or another after Love announced he was leaving, on the way to becoming horrible they managed to land Town and Wiggins - everyone else are nice pieces (I loved the Shabazz and Dieng pick, and MOST people in the T-Wolve section thought Dieng was horrible), but they are not the reason why Minny has insanely high potential. In fact one of the most powerful assets they have is Ricky Rubio who hardly has anything to do with Flip Saunders also...

You're giving a LOT of credit for James forcing Wiggins out of Cleveland....