Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4)

[deeps6x]

I would hope to pick Demetris Jackson if he is availalbe for the Knicks pick...Yes we already have 3pgs BUT how often can you get an explosive PG who can shoot and play a 2 way game? Lowry will be on his final year contract and Jackson's upside is much higher than Joseph's and Wright's. Unfortunatelly I don't think Masai will pick him. He will probably pick the person based on fit rather than BPA with the Knicks pick.

I agree that now is the time to be picking up Lowry's replacement. Lowry is 30 now, will be 31 when he opts out, or 32 if he plays out the contract. Name me a PG other than Nash that was still at the top of his game when he was 32 (or 33, 34, 35). I love skinny Kyle. This is his best year ever. But history tells us... that it will be his best year - EVER. He has reached the top of the hill. I hope it isn't a cliff.

The only problem is, you are looking at the wrong PG.

Also, for those commenting about the 'PF loaded draft', give your heads a collective shake. Yes there are a ton of PFs, yes, a ton of them will go in the first round. But they are all less than stellar. Sabonis and Johnson can rebound at all-star levels, but the rest of their games are flawed, or, as keeps being pointed out about Sabonis, he has physical measurement problems. Skal and Davis can block shots at an all-star projected rate, but they have big flaws as well. Ellenson - just yech by all metrics. Chriss (immature, poor D), etc. Yeah, there is a pile of them, but the best of them are still mostly 'potential' rather than proven skill. Rabb should be the first to go outside of the first 3 picks.

[Jstock12]

I can't believe the amount of ppl that want a slightly more polished Hansborough with our pick...Sabonis...puke worthy

This is probably our lone chance to draft in the lottery for at least the next 4 years and you want to waste it on some energy big that most of you see admit will be a role player n likely a good off the bench PF?! Wtf is that?! lol who the heck targets a role player in the top 10?!

Although yes I like everybody has no idea what Masai is thinking but I'm gonna go out on limb n say I find highly unlikely he is looking at him with Knick pick considering he's never had the opportunity to draft this high n I find hard to believe he sets his sights so low that he just looks for a good rotation player. Also considering the first name he's been attached to Korkmaz it would seem he is looking for upside so I'm thankful it doesn't appear he has the same trail of thought as some of you. But I'm just blown away that there is even a small portion of ppl who would be as shortsighted to draft based on fit with our lone lotto pick for probably years to come...smh...I'm not even sure I'd take him with our own pick nevermind flushing our lotto pick down the toilet for a ceiling role player.

I agree with you that drafting Sabonis in the top10 is a bit of a reach. He should go somewhere between 10 and 16. Comparing him to Hansbrough is what is puke worthy here though. Also, you're talking as if this draft has a bunch of All-Star potential players to offer, which is false. Aside from Ingram/Bender/Simmons there almost aren't any other All-Star level prospects in there.

[deeps6x]

Agreed. Even Ingram, Simmons and Bender have less all-star potential than KAT had last year.

[mademan]

Please say no to Sabonis. Lack of length is a killer in the NBA, and he doesnt have the athleticism to compensate for it

[deeps6x]

I actually like Rabb a lot and part of that is the same reason I could be okay with Korkmaz. They're both so young still. Whoever we draft will not play. Theyll be in the d league. So if Masai thinks one of the youngest guys can be special in a few years I'm down with the long game. As long as he trades some of the assets he's accumulated for a power forward I'm fine.

I think Rabb is good at what he does and will be a good player in the league. My concern is that his skill set (even if it reaches Bosh levels) is just not that valuable in today's NBA. And as we see with guys like Jason Thompson, Luis Scola, Tyler Hansborough, the cheap PF market is one of the biggest market inefficiencies in the NBA. Why use assets like high picks and large chunks of the salary cap when you can find someone who provides 80% of that production for pennies in free agency?

This is if Rabb hits his peak as someone like Bosh which I really don't see as he is nowhere near that level. If he becomes what I expect he will become, even his rookie scale salary will not be good value. A traditional PF will need to have the potential to be the best in the league at his position to be worth a high pick and salary investment. This is not Rabb.

I sort of agree. I think the Raptors own pick should be the one used on a PF. This PF class is so flawed that one of the PFs projected to go in the teens will likely fall to 26, roughly where Brice Johnson is 'projected' to go, and Ben Bentil is also comparable to Chriss, better in some ways. We probably have a choice of 3 decent PFs at 26.

I think we should try to bring back Jason Thompson as our PF insurance policy. He makes $300k now, so maybe it takes $500k to $1M to sign him when the cap explodes for everyone this summer. If not Jason, there are a pile of others. Some that will get displaced by a shiny brand new PF pick, just like Biyombo was displaced by Frank Kaminsky last year. A smart man like Masai might find another PF filler that excels for us. FWIW, Thompson is probably a better player than any of the PFs that get picked after 3. These kids are all raw and flawed. That takes time to fix / gain experience, so that they can overtake a player like Thompson. And hopefully Patterson.

[BoyzNTheHood]

If anyone could inbox me a link to watch the Hoop Summit game I'd love you forever!

[BoyzNTheHood]

Terrance Ferguson is a beast! Young two-way player. Lights out shooter with lock down defensive potential. He gets Ray Allen type lift on his jumper, it's gorgeous. Whoever drafts this kid next year will get a monster.

I'd trade DeMar for the ability to draft this kid. If the Lakers want DeMar they'll need to pony up with that 2017 first rounder.

[raptor jesus]

Please say no to Sabonis. Lack of length is a killer in the NBA, and he doesnt have the athleticism to compensate for it

Yeah, that's what makes me leery as well. Ivan Rabb looks like a similar player anyway, but with superior measurables and athleticism.

[BoyzNTheHood]

I would hope to pick Demetris Jackson if he is availalbe for the Knicks pick...Yes we already have 3pgs BUT how often can you get an explosive PG who can shoot and play a 2 way game? Lowry will be on his final year contract and Jackson's upside is much higher than Joseph's and Wright's. Unfortunatelly I don't think Masai will pick him. He will probably pick the person based on fit rather than BPA with the Knicks pick.

I agree that now is the time to be picking up Lowry's replacement. Lowry is 30 now, will be 31 when he opts out, or 32 if he plays out the contract. Name me a PG other than Nash that was still at the top of his game when he was 32 (or 33, 34, 35). I love skinny Kyle. This is his best year ever. But history tells us... that it will be his best year - EVER. He has reached the top of the hill. I hope it isn't a cliff.

The only problem is, you are looking at the wrong PG.

Also, for those commenting about the 'PF loaded draft', give your heads a collective shake. Yes there are a ton of PFs, yes, a ton of them will go in the first round. But they are all less than stellar. Sabonis and Johnson can rebound at all-star levels, but the rest of their games are flawed, or, as keeps being pointed out about Sabonis, he has physical measurement problems. Skal and Davis can block shots at an all-star projected rate, but they have big flaws as well. Ellenson - just yech by all metrics. Chriss (immature, poor D), etc. Yeah, there is a pile of them, but the best of them are still mostly 'potential' rather than proven skill. Rabb should be the first to go outside of the first 3 picks.

You must be psychic since you seem to tell him without a shadow of a doubt that Jackson is the wrong guy for the job. Personally, I prefer to let Wright have the reigns once Kyle starts to slow down instead of drafting a point guard in this forward heavy draft. But again, it's my opinion, which you probably already know is wrong so I apologize in advance.

[mad-man]

pity the team that drafts him. i honestly rather have Sabonis

Sabonis is trouble - look up Thomas Robinson. Below average length doesn't cut it in the league. Powell has a bigger wingspan than Sabonis

Sabonis doesn't have good length, but what does Thomas Robinson have to do with anything here? Compared to Sabonis, T-Rob is very raw skillwise. Maybe the only thing they have in common is the high motor.

I'll just leave these here:







Also, channeling his inner Manu Ginobili:

http://gph.is/1RWAxQn

Thomas Robinson experienced similar success in college against undersized bigs, unfortunately like Sabonis, subpar length forced him to completely change his game in the league and hes still trying to figure it out.

Doing those moves in the NCAA is one thing, doing in the L is something completely different.

[bonjovi0308]

I would hope to pick Demetris Jackson if he is availalbe for the Knicks pick...Yes we already have 3pgs BUT how often can you get an explosive PG who can shoot and play a 2 way game? Lowry will be on his final year contract and Jackson's upside is much higher than Joseph's and Wright's. Unfortunatelly I don't think Masai will pick him. He will probably pick the person based on fit rather than BPA with the Knicks pick.

Only in the sense that Wright and Joseph are a bit older. I think there is close to zero chance we take a point guard in a draft full of big men. If Jackson were thought to be a can't miss allstar, and remember Lillard has yet to become one, then yes pick him but my money is on Rabb or Luwawu at this point.

Lillard is not an all star? For the sake of argument assuming jackson could become Lillard, you sure you dont want lillard on a rookie contract over joseph and wright??

[bonjovi0308]

I would hope to pick Demetris Jackson if he is availalbe for the Knicks pick...Yes we already have 3pgs BUT how often can you get an explosive PG who can shoot and play a 2 way game? Lowry will be on his final year contract and Jackson's upside is much higher than Joseph's and Wright's. Unfortunatelly I don't think Masai will pick him. He will probably pick the person based on fit rather than BPA with the Knicks pick.

I agree that now is the time to be picking up Lowry's replacement. Lowry is 30 now, will be 31 when he opts out, or 32 if he plays out the contract. Name me a PG other than Nash that was still at the top of his game when he was 32 (or 33, 34, 35). I love skinny Kyle. This is his best year ever. But history tells us... that it will be his best year - EVER. He has reached the top of the hill. I hope it isn't a cliff.

The only problem is, you are looking at the wrong PG.

Also, for those commenting about the 'PF loaded draft', give your heads a collective shake. Yes there are a ton of PFs, yes, a ton of them will go in the first round. But they are all less than stellar. Sabonis and Johnson can rebound at all-star levels, but the rest of their games are flawed, or, as keeps being pointed out about Sabonis, he has physical measurement problems. Skal and Davis can block shots at an all-star projected rate, but they have big flaws as well. Ellenson - just yech by all metrics. Chriss (immature, poor D), etc. Yeah, there is a pile of them, but the best of them are still mostly 'potential' rather than proven skill. Rabb should be the first to go outside of the first 3 picks.

I still havent done much homework yet, but i agree with you this year’s PF/C prospects seem to be lacklustre with the knicks pick.

[UnderdogRaptors]

Thon maker or bust

[CunningLinguist]

Thon maker or bust

They could very well be one and the same

[Splinter]

Thon maker or bust

Don't you mean Thon Maker is a bust?

I think guys like Skal and Cheick Diallo are better prospects than Thon. Thon, like Diallo, is a borderline 1st rounder. Go back and watch the biosteel game from last year. He was getting physically dominated by guys who gave up 6" to him. I would try to buy a 2nd this year to get him but that's it.

[UnderdogRaptors]

New Orleans

[OAKLEY_2]

I would hope to pick Demetris Jackson if he is availalbe for the Knicks pick...Yes we already have 3pgs BUT how often can you get an explosive PG who can shoot and play a 2 way game? Lowry will be on his final year contract and Jackson's upside is much higher than Joseph's and Wright's. Unfortunatelly I don't think Masai will pick him. He will probably pick the person based on fit rather than BPA with the Knicks pick.

Only in the sense that Wright and Joseph are a bit older. I think there is close to zero chance we take a point guard in a draft full of big men. If Jackson were thought to be a can't miss allstar, and remember Lillard has yet to become one, then yes pick him but my money is on Rabb or Luwawu at this point.

Lillard is not an all star? For the sake of argument assuming jackson could become Lillard, you sure you dont want lillard on a rookie contract over joseph and wright??

If jackson is Lillard I def want him. If he is isiah Canaan no thanks.

[CoachJReturns]

Sunday is a big day for Thank Nation!

Milwaukee @ Philly - This is a must win for us. If Milwaukee doesn't take this one we are not finishing better than 10th. Bucks have been awful and won't get a better chance at one more win than against the 76ers.

Utah @ Denver - Nuggets have frustrated us constantly over the past few weeks. But this could be a chance to get one back. Utah needa a win to stay in the 8th playoff seed. They have an awful lot on the line here. They have nothing to gain by getting a late lotto pick this year. They need some playoff basketball.

Let's go Thank Nation!

[primopastalove2]

At this point, we need DEN to lose their last 2 games, and Bucks to win 2 out of 3 and Kings to win out in order to pick 8th and not be screwed over by coin flip.

[deeps6x]

BonJovi, being 'psychic' has nothing to do with it. A simple eye test is enough. But I could toss you some stats to demonstrate that Jackson isn't the guy we should be looking at. And if that isn't enough, maybe a Tarot card reading will convince you. Sorry Medic, gotta lump you in with the crowd looking at the wrong guy to replace Lowry.

Why is Kyle great for the Raptors? Because he helps the team win. He does a ton to generate O for the team and his D helps stop the other teams O quite a bit as well.

BPM and VORP are generally very good indicators of a player's value to his team. They also happen to line up really well for all of the stars right down to the journeymen of the league. Curry, Westbrook and James are 1,2,3 in both BPM and VORP. http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016_advanced.html#advanced::28 Kyle Lowry is #5 and #7. Why? Partly because Kyle has a massive 115 ORtg and 104 DRtg rating. DD has a 5 point differential by comparison. The guys that contribute a hell of a lot on O and still have good D are usually the ones that most people recognize as being 'stars' in the league. However, guys that don't hurt you yet are superior defensive stoppers can have just as much of an impact on the game.

BonJovi, Medic, I don't know how much you've watched Jackson this past season in college, but you seem to really be focused on his 'highlights' and not on the bigger picture. The 'eye' test says his D is horrible. He seems to be a mediocre passer and rebounder as well. But can he explode to the rim and dunk? Hell yeah. Does that make him a candidate to replace Lowry? Hell no. It makes him one dimensional.

We need two way players in the draft. The team needs players who can make passes. We are really lacking in this department. We are about as far from a Spurs/Warriors clone in this regard as possible.

I believe it was Dr Positivity who said that the players who fail at the next level after being drafted, are the ones that have average shooting in college or are one dimensional players. I don't know. Does Jackson sound like that? If he goes too high in this draft, I think his team will quickly start to consider him a bust. You know what I mean? It is like Ross. Mocks had him at 16 or 17, then he went 8th, but couldn't match the impact of the 6, 7 and 9 picks, so he kind of got that bust label. He is decent as a 20th pick, but a bust as an 8th pick. Make sense?

OK, so let me add a couple stats and expand the info on players we are considering for the Knicks/Nuggets pick.