Why does Hinkie get so much flak, but Suns are even more of joke?

[Novocaine]

Because the job of a GM is to build a team. At some points you can bottom out, because that's often the best course to build up a team when the talent is scarce, but then you have to start building up. You don't need to hastily start adding veteran free-agents or trading future picks for veterans around the best young players you got through the draft. You can let the team grow slowly and organically. But you can't keep bottoming out year after year until you get a LBJ or a Durant.

That is, of course, an easy strategy to success: bottom out again and again and again. It takes no GM talent whatsoever - you trade the likes of MCW, don't re-sign those ike Ish Smith and you draft consensus BPA. Great job security - you can never be accused of making mistakes! An d eventually you'll succeed. Of course, that only works if you're the only one doing it, otherwise you're bottoming out and still getting the 10th pick and whatever average players you want to trade will have little value because there are 10 other teams trying to do the same-

[CoreyGallagher]

- draft BPA every draft, fill the roster with those rookies and other young, cheap players - your team will be horrible and not even get close to 20 wins

Drafting third in what were considered three player drafts of varying tiers (Ie. Towns then Russell and Okafor), yeah, usually you'd draft BPA at the very top. He didn't draft BPA (assuming he told the Magic who to draft) when he chose Saric or MCW later in the lottery, assuming he didn't in the second rounds any of the years either.

Also, we did come close to 20 wins, both years prior to this one. 19 and 18 wins respectively.

- rinse and repeat, keep doing it till eventually you luck into a superstar with those draft picks you got and traded for. If you do it long enough, it'll eventually happen, right?

If you do that long enough, hopefully you luck into a superstar, if not then by drafting high enough and winning trades (which Hinkie did), you should be able to fill the chamber with enough assets to be ready to pull the trigger when a superstar eventually becomes available. That was the hope - it was about having the means, whether on draft day or eventually, to attain one.

[Cappy_Smurf]

Because the Suns went into the season trying to win while Hinkie build a team Meants to tank all year and compete for worse record. Suns were just plagued by injury and ran out of players. The fact that they are in a position to possibly have a better pick then Philly is kinda hilarious and proof that Hinkies method only looks good on paper. Hence he is unemployed and Ryan McDo ought is not.

Pure horse ****. Anyone who doesn't understand that drafting higher is your best bet for adding the right kind of player to build for the future, deserves to be a Brooklyn fan. And double horse ****, yap yap yap about the suns having injury problems, as if Philly hasn't had injury problems. DER

[Cappy_Smurf]

Seriously, have any of the haters considered that Embiid being healthy might have changed the course? Stupid Hinkie and his plan for Embiid to have injury problems this long.

[BVPN]

Seriously, have any of the haters considered that Embiid being healthy might have changed the course? Stupid Hinkie and his plan for Embiid to have injury problems this long.

Embiid was a known injury risk before he was drafted, that's why he fell to 3. It was also Hinkie's choice to draft Saric, who he also knew would not play for them for years. Not the best foundation for a plan to start winning in a year or two.

[Novocaine]

- rinse and repeat, keep doing it till eventually you luck into a superstar with those draft picks you got and traded for. If you do it long enough, it'll eventually happen, right?

If you do that long enough, hopefully you luck into a superstar, if not then by drafting high enough and winning so many trades, you should be able to fill the chamber with enough assets to be ready to pull the trigger when a superstar eventually becomes available.

Exactly. Given enough time, it's a 100% safe strategy and you don't even need to have any special skills - a high school kid on part-time can execute it. Draft BPA with the high picks (that way, if one guy busts, you can still claim you were wrong by the right reasons and that the underlying process was correct), keep trading away the MCWs of the world, let the Ish Smiths walk away, keep hiring those D-Leaguers and 2nd round rookies and carry on.

It's amazing how before Hinkie's arrival, nobody ever thought about it - as he says in the letter, everyone was busy doing the zag, but him and his unmitigated genius, was able to see that elusive zig.

Of course, one could wonder what would happen if the 15 or 20 other teams without superstars or future superstars decided to the same... but nevermind about that, surely Hinkie was an unique genius... very unsporting from the other teams to pressure the Sixers to push away Hinkie just because he had a strategy every team can easily execute if they want.

[XxIronChainzxX]

The Suns are written off as incompetence. Hinkie gets flak because he set out to produce garbage, and basically turned the franchise into a joke. It's one thing to lose on purpose. It's another thing to embarrass your franchise and the league in one go. That's what **** him ultimately.

Enjoy your Raptors Finals title this year....oh wait, you're an overrated fake-good, treadmill team with no shot in hell at winning the title. Enjoy being stuck at this position for the next 5-10 years.

Chill, dude. Do you think the 76ers don't have publicity issue? Because that's a very real imagine problem, and an all-CAPS post on realgm isn't going to change the fact that Hinkie did real damage to the brand - for the team, and the NBA. Lots of teams tank. But the NBA is still a business, not a video-game, and there's a whole dog-and-pony show a team has to put on to make losing and accruing picks work.

[CoreyGallagher]

Exactly. Given enough time, it's a 100% safe strategy and you don't even need to have any special skills - a high school kid on part-time can execute it.

Making trades isn't like it is in the video games, so, no, I don't believe that a high school kid on part-time could execute what Hinkie did.

Draft BPA with the high picks (that way, if one guy busts, you can still claim you were wrong by the right reasons and that the underlying process was correct)

Well, usually prospects fall into tiers, how many players are in each tier can vary. Using Porzingis as a hypothetical example - if he had played in college and scouts had gotten a better look at him then perhaps it would have been more widely considered a 4 player draft at the time. Choosing wrong would have then opened the selection up to more scrutiny than it got, instead a Knicks' fan cried.

EDIT: To clarify, I'm not suggesting it was the correct pick with hindsight, this is specifically of at the time.

keep trading away the MCWs of the world, let the Ish Smiths walk away, keep hiring those D-Leaguers and 2nd round rookies and carry on.

MCW's? Plural? He traded away the MCW of the world and got back a considerably more valuable pick. He traded away KJ, a prospect, for Canaan, another prospect, as well as a draft pick that would eventually become Richaun Holmes. Holmes may actually be the best of them.

[Q C]

so its OK if your team is pure trash as long as the GM says thats the plan? ok

both franchises are an embarrassment to the league

[Novocaine]

Well, usually prospects fall into tiers, how many players are in each tier can vary. Using Porzingis as a hypothetical example - if he had played in college and scouts had gotten a better look at him then perhaps it would have been more widely considered a 4 player draft at the time. Choosing wrong would have then opened the selection up to more scrutiny, instead a Knicks' fan cried.

Uh? I was just pointing out what Hinkie himself illustrated in his letter when he said that drafting Embiid was the right thing to do even if never plays because process matters more than outcome and his underlying process was the correct one.

(of course, one could argue that's nothing but a cheap tautology that only absolute simpletons would fall for -one can easily argue that passing on "player X with injury concerns" was the right underlying process and that even if the player succeeds, the right thing to do was to not pick him- but it was from Hinkie, so he must be correct).

Making trades isn't like it is in the video games, so, no, I don't believe that a high school kid on part-time could execute what Hinkie did.

Maybe not completely, but to a large extent. An algorithm surely could. And any other GM surely would- I mean, I described it in 3 sentences.

It's just that decades of GMs and no one ever thought of following that fool proof strategy for success, even though it's used routinely by kids on simulation games. Either that or nobody ever had the chutzpah to try it because they understood the collective action problem that it creates, your opinion may vary.

[Novocaine]

so its OK if your team is pure trash as long as the GM says thats the plan? ok

Hinkie thought he had found the secret to get 100% job security right from the bat without much effort:

- keep bottoming out your team, drafting consensus BPA and trading any decent but non-star player. Call that something like "process". You're never trying to build a team, so you can't be blamed for failing to build a team. You're not making trades for established players. You're not signing expensive veteran FAs. You can be totally clueless and the worst you can do is sign bad 2nd rounders and D-Leaguers, but nobody will ever blame you for this because those guys are expected to be bad. Isn't it wonderful?

- just do that till you have a superstar or two. Then it becomes super easy to build a contender. So you can show all your critics that you were correct.

The other idiots who actually try to do GMing get fired if they fail. He'd never give himself a chance to fail, so he'd never get fired. Or so he thought, not easy for conmen these days.

[kingofthecourt67]

I'm honestly sick of seeing Sam Hinkie threads on this general board. It's essentially because of people like you all with an uninformed and short-sighted perspective into the 76ers with no vested interest that our team is a circus act right now. We had a novel strategy, and it was the masses' fear of the unknown and the subsequent negative reaction from BSPN and the rest of the national media that our owners felt pressured into bringing on that snake in the grass Jerry Colangelo.

Most 76er fans were perfectly happy being patient and playing the long game. There are very few fan bases that were as united as ours over the last 3 years (of course we had factions like Okafor vs Noel), but we for the most part supported the overall direction. We had something concrete to believe in, and now we don't. Can you all just be happy now that our desired methods have been dragged through the mud and sufficiently buried and move on with your own teams?

[kingofthecourt67]

so its OK if your team is pure trash as long as the GM says thats the plan? ok

Hinkie thought he had found the secret to get 100% job security right from the bat without much effort:

- keep bottoming out your team, drafting consensus BPA and trading any decent but non-star player. Call that something like "process". You're never trying to build a team, so you can't be blamed for failing to build a team. You're not making trades for established players. You're not signing expensive veteran FAs. You can be totally clueless and the worst you can do is sign bad 2nd rounders and D-Leaguers, but nobody will ever blame you for this because those guys are expected to be bad. Isn't it wonderful?

- just do that till you have a superstar or two. Then it becomes super easy to build a contender. So you can show all your critics that you were correct.

The other idiots who actually try to do GMing get fired if they fail. He'd never give himself a chance to fail, so he'd never get fired. Or so he thought, not easy for conmen these days.

There is so much ignorance in this thread, but I'll just respond to the most blatant display of it. Much effort? Did you not see the number of trades we made and the dumpster bin D-leaguers that we cycled through our system in order to find the Robert Covingtons? We literally tracked every shot that our player took in a 76er sanctioned gym. Our organization paid more attention to detail than any other that I can think of. We were taking baby steps and the running strides were about to come.

Go look at the the status of the team in terms of players and assets before and after Hinkie's tenure and come back and tell me that there wasn't effort.

[Novocaine]

so its OK if your team is pure trash as long as the GM says thats the plan? ok

Hinkie thought he had found the secret to get 100% job security right from the bat without much effort:

- keep bottoming out your team, drafting consensus BPA and trading any decent but non-star player. Call that something like "process". You're never trying to build a team, so you can't be blamed for failing to build a team. You're not making trades for established players. You're not signing expensive veteran FAs. You can be totally clueless and the worst you can do is sign bad 2nd rounders and D-Leaguers, but nobody will ever blame you for this because those guys are expected to be bad. Isn't it wonderful?

- just do that till you have a superstar or two. Then it becomes super easy to build a contender. So you can show all your critics that you were correct.

The other idiots who actually try to do GMing get fired if they fail. He'd never give himself a chance to fail, so he'd never get fired. Or so he thought, not easy for conmen these days.

There is so much ignorance in this thread, but I'll just respond to the most blatant display of it. Much effort? Did you not see the number of trades we made and the dumpster bin D-leaguers that we cycled through our system in order to find the Robert Covingtons? We literally tracked every shot that our player took in a 76er sanctioned gym. Our organization paid more attention to detail than any other that I can think of. We were taking baby steps and the running strides were about to come.

Go look at the the status of the team in terms of players and assets before and after Hinkie's tenure and come back and tell me that there wasn't effort.

You're a nasty rude individual. Why call people ignorant just because you disagree with them? Apologize, then I'll reply to your comment.

[Cappy_Smurf]

.

[Novocaine]

Most 76er fans were perfectly happy being patient and playing the long game. :

Sure. The issue is that Hinkie's strategy creates a huge collective action problem for the rest of the league. So the other teams had to step in and get rid of him - as they did by pressuring the Sixers to hire Jerry Colangelo (Hinkie was gone as the top decision-maker since that moment). This isn't hard to understand. You can't follow that type of strategy in the NBA because it only works if nobody else follows it and it's not really that difficult to.

[kingofthecourt67]

Hinkie thought he had found the secret to get 100% job security right from the bat without much effort:

- keep bottoming out your team, drafting consensus BPA and trading any decent but non-star player. Call that something like "process". You're never trying to build a team, so you can't be blamed for failing to build a team. You're not making trades for established players. You're not signing expensive veteran FAs. You can be totally clueless and the worst you can do is sign bad 2nd rounders and D-Leaguers, but nobody will ever blame you for this because those guys are expected to be bad. Isn't it wonderful?

- just do that till you have a superstar or two. Then it becomes super easy to build a contender. So you can show all your critics that you were correct.

The other idiots who actually try to do GMing get fired if they fail. He'd never give himself a chance to fail, so he'd never get fired. Or so he thought, not easy for conmen these days.

There is so much ignorance in this thread, but I'll just respond to the most blatant display of it. Much effort? Did you not see the number of trades we made and the dumpster bin D-leaguers that we cycled through our system in order to find the Robert Covingtons? We literally tracked every shot that our player took in a 76er sanctioned gym. Our organization paid more attention to detail than any other that I can think of. We were taking baby steps and the running strides were about to come.

Go look at the the status of the team in terms of players and assets before and after Hinkie's tenure and come back and tell me that there wasn't effort.

You're a nasty rude individual. Why call people ignorant just because you disagree with them? learn some manners, then I'll discuss with you.

I'm calling your argument ignorant because you are looking at the surface of what we are doing and failing to point out the steps that are being taken in addition to it in the short-term and the long-term consequences of this "process" that you so sarcastically mocked. Don't play victim here--you're condescending attitude was clear in your initial post. I even took the time out properly respond to your post and backed up why I thought it was ignorant, so take it how you please.

[Cappy_Smurf]

I'm honestly sick of seeing Sam Hinkie threads on this general board. It's essentially because of people like you all with an uninformed and short-sighted perspective into the 76ers with no vested interest that our team is a circus act right now. We had a novel strategy, and it was the masses' fear of the unknown the subsequent negative reaction from BSPN and the rest of the national media that our owners felt pressured into bringing on that snake in the grass Jerry Colangelo.

Most 76er fans were perfectly happy being patient and playing the long game. There are very few fan bases that were as united as ours over the last 3 years (of course we had factions like Okafor vs Noel), but we for the most part supported the overall direction. We had something concrete to believe in, and now we don't. Can you all just be happy now that our desired methods have been dragged through the mud and sufficiently buried and move on with your own teams?

Jazz fan here. BTW, your strategy isn't really novel. You guys have just taken it to a new level, and there's absolutely nothing wrong there. I support the long game. I will be rooting for you guys to come together like gangbusters. Godspeed.

[JDizzel3000]

Of course there is 0 difference just nonsensical rationalizations for a franchise mired in dysfunction and incompetent front office maneuvers ....good luck with Devin Booker (Micheal Redd) & Alex Len(Roy Hibbert) being the franchise cornerstones

[kingofthecourt67]

Most 76er fans were perfectly happy being patient and playing the long game. :

Sure. The issue is that Hinkie's strategy creates a huge collective action problem for the rest of the league. So the other teams had to step in and get rid of him - as they did by pressuring the Sixers to hire Jerry Colangelo (Hinkie was gone as the top decision-maker since that moment). This isn't hard to understand. You can't follow that type of strategy in the NBA because it only works if nobody else follows it and it's not really that difficult to.

I'm confused. The rest of the league didn't like his strategy because they were worried they themselves would commit to it? There are no rules against what we are doing. It was not up to other owners to meddle when we are acting within the CBA. Don't like it? Wait till the next CBA to change it.

Tanking has been around long before Sam Hinkie became a GM. I don't feel the need to point you to specific cases. We just took a rational approach to it. And again, the funny thing is we didn't even finish with the worst record the first 2 years. Our team consistently played hard and was actually quite the joy to watch. the 2015 76ers were a lot more fun to watch than the last year of the Doug Collins Era.