Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4)

[S ID]

Everything looks good so far. Hopefully Orlando wins against Miami for insurance

[Skeezo]

Huge Utah run in the 3rd Quarter against Denver... Finish strong Jazz!

[MEDIC]

.....Medic, I don't know how much you've watched Jackson this past season in college, but you seem to really be focused on his 'highlights' and not on the bigger picture. The 'eye' test says his D is horrible. He seems to be a mediocre passer and rebounder as well. But can he explode to the rim and dunk? Hell yeah. Does that make him a candidate to replace Lowry? Hell no. It makes him one dimensional.

I've watched several Notre Dame games, pretty much all of the youtube stuff & of course DX's reviews. He may not have performed as well on D as one would like (as per the stats), but he definitely has the intensity, motor & speed to be a Lowry level defender in the NBA. Getting drafted to a Dwayne Casey team......he'd have to defend. I don't think Notre Dame was getting the most out of him on that side of the floor for whatever reason. A guy like Calderon is a bad defender simply because he is not capable. A guy like Jackson is capable, but needs seasoning.

We need two way players in the draft.

Agreed.

The team needs players who can make passes. We are really lacking in this department. We are about as far from a Spurs/Warriors clone in this regard as possible.

That's who we are though. It is by design to some degree.

I believe it was Dr Positivity who said that the players who fail at the next level after being drafted, are the ones that have average shooting in college or are one dimensional players. I don't know. Does Jackson sound like that? If he goes too high in this draft, I think his team will quickly start to consider him a bust. You know what I mean? It is like Ross. Mocks had him at 16 or 17, then he went 8th, but couldn't match the impact of the 6, 7 and 9 picks, so he kind of got that bust label. He is decent as a 20th pick, but a bust as an 8th pick. Make sense?

I don't see Jackson as one dimensional or being an average shooter. His NCAA career shooting percentages (.381 from three & .467 overall) are pretty decent. They are much better than a guy like Kemba Walker had at the NCAA level, who is carving out a pretty decent NBA career for himself (shot .378 from 3 this season & averaged 21.2ppg).

Ross was a very limited player. Skinny as hell, couldn't dribble to save his life. He was drafted as a 3+D type player & yes, 8th is definitely too high for a player like that (role player potential with some serious question marks). Ross was drafted for Casey, who fell for the guy while in Washington. I don't think Masai would have made that same choice.

I don't see Jackson as anything like Ross as a prospect (in terms of lacking multiple tools).

I see D. Jackson more as a Reggie Jackson, Kemba Walker, Isiah Thomas, Eric Bledsoe type PG prospect. More of a scoring PG with a strong build & athleticism. I think his game will be geared more towards the NBA rules where he can take advantage of his athleticism more.

I can see him being one of those guys 3 years down the road where people are saying "oh man, Demetrious Jackson would look really good on this team right now.....too bad we didn't draft him". (much like Ty Lawson, who's size was questioned & fell to 18th in the draft.......ended up outperforming his draft position for several years)

I could always be wrong (like many of us are), but I have to call it like I see it.

[Micrew18]

Just ran through a few videos highlighting Deyonta Davis and while I acknowledge the fact I didn't watch entire games of him, he looks like a great talent. He could play the 4, but I think he would be way better suited to play the 5 in today's game. His rim protection, ability to contain on the PnR and the fact that he has decent post moves, a solid hook shot, and the makings of a solid midrange jumper sounds like a great young center to me. Wouldn't be mad if we took him, especially if we can't afford to resign Biyombo

[0 - 100]

Utah beating Denver by 20 in the 4th

[S ID]

The bucks are an embarrassment

[wegetitin08]

Bucks Suck!



That is all...

[dalton749]

The hope for 8th pick is still alive!

[Volcano]

SAC - 32 wins
@ Phx
@ Houston

MIL - 33 wins
@Orlando
vs Indiana

DEN - 33 wins
@Portland

NYK - 32 wins
vs Toronto
@Indiana

[MEDIC]

Just ran through a few videos highlighting Deyonta Davis and while I acknowledge the fact I didn't watch entire games of him, he looks like a great talent. He could play the 4, but I think he would be way better suited to play the 5 in today's game. His rim protection, ability to contain on the PnR and the fact that he has decent post moves, a solid hook shot, and the makings of a solid midrange jumper sounds like a great young center to me. Wouldn't be mad if we took him, especially if we can't afford to resign Biyombo

Yeah, he looks like a great prospect. He definitely has the athleticism to play the 4, but could also play the 5.

He's the one big that I would be excited about drafting. Sky is the limit for him. Would be fun to watch him develop on the 905 next season.

[0 - 100]

SAC - 32 wins (Holds tiebreaker over Denver and NYK)
@ Phx
@ Houston

MIL - 33 wins (Season series tied with Denver and NYK)
@Orlando
vs Indiana

DEN - 33 wins
@Portland

NYK - 32 wins
vs Toronto
@Indiana

For #8 pick, we need SAC to beat Phoenix. NYK/Den to lose remaining games. Bucks to win one more game or win the coin toss.

I don't think tie breakers matter when determining lottery positions. If teams are tied, they just go to coin tosses

[Volcano]

SAC - 32 wins (Holds tiebreaker over Denver and NYK)
@ Phx
@ Houston

MIL - 33 wins (Season series tied with Denver and NYK)
@Orlando
vs Indiana

DEN - 33 wins
@Portland

NYK - 32 wins
vs Toronto
@Indiana

For #8 pick, we need SAC to beat Phoenix. NYK/Den to lose remaining games. Bucks to win one more game or win the coin toss.

I don't think tie breakers matter when determining lottery positions. If teams are tied, they just go to coin tosses

oh damn..lol, you're right..doesn't make sense to award a higher lottery pick based on season match-ups

[Kevin Willis]

I'm a Chriss fan because I saw him and my first thought was a less polished Aaron Gordon with shot blocking ability but I wonder if Masai might be gunshy of a 6'9-ish freak athlete jump shooting big after just witnessing Bennett's struggles firsthand.

Hear me out on this. Even if you grant that Chriss is the superior athlete to Bennett (and he is) AB was no slouch and was blessed with freakishly long arms. More importantly, Bennett dominated UNLV with a nice mix of inside and out play and despite tremendous opportunities in 3 different situations hasn't been able to even carve out a reliable bench role yet.

There's so far only been one Blake Griffin-type that's made that size and athleticism and shooting skill work at the level everyone hoped and that's Blake Griffin himself. Derrick Williams couldn't do it either. Aaron Gordon might be the most promising of these types and is one of the best athletes ever seen of these types but it's even difficult to see the path toward him becoming a top 15 2-way PF at the moment to me, barring some extremely rare growth. Not too long ago we had Ed Davis. He had NBA pedigree. Came from UNC. Was well-coached there and won. Had tremendous NBA athleticism and motor but he's still basically been an energy big off the bench in his career. Hump was built like a linebacker and had some impressive finesse skill for such a bruiser. The NBA PF position is loaded with enough talented and still reasonably young 2-way vets that it's becoming increasingly hard for raw PFs without one or two NBA-ready elite skills and high bball IQ on the defensive end to make their mark. You can get guys like Hansbrough or Hump for cheap year after year. It makes me less excited about the path for guys like Chriss that need a lot of work if they also don't have a length advantage in addition to the athleticism.

I have faith in Masai though. If he picked Chriss I'd feel good about the path they imagine for him but after the failed Bennett experiment I can't help but wonder if he might be a little gunshy when looking at a kid like this in an open gym who looks even less refined than Bennett did with similar (or worse) length. Chriss is probably 2 years away from being two years away from truly challenging vet PFs in this league for a starting spot and that's IF all goes well for him.

I like what you did in terms of grouping the type of players and comment on it.

I think that Masai should draft a power forward with the lotto pick and a stash and dash with the second pick. There are some good wing players in this draft but we don't need more. We also don't need more PGs that will reduce playing time for Wright.

DD (start)
Carroll (start)
Powell
TRoss
Caboclo
Cujo ( 2G lineup)
Wright ( 2G lineup)

Any wing player will get no minutes unless they play in Europe until there is an opening. Saying that I think there are a couple of groups for PF:

Blake Griffin type uber-athletic, shooting PF with some skill
Chriss
Siakram

Chris Bosh/Ed Davis long, slim, skilled PF with some range and can rebound
Skal
Rabb
Cornelie
Brice Johnson

Kevin Love / Frye stretch 4 who could rebound a little
Ellenson

Traditional power big with an old man's game
Sabonis

Amir / Tristan Thompson blue collar dirty work type
Diallo
Okuako

Not sure where to put Bender or Bentil. But looking at the groups I think a good fit on this team is the Blake Griffin type, Chris Bosh type and maybe a Kevin Love type. The others won't work as well next to either JV and the rest of our line-up. For our stash and dash whomever the best foreign player is left on the board for the pick without considering position.

No Deyonta Davis? I think he belongs in the Amir type with better upside.

Davis is an Amir type right now but can be a Bosh type. But yeah he is that type.
Bender is probably a Kevin love type with better vision and Bentil is probably a more traditional power big.

I can see why people like Valentine's skillset but he will not get any play here in this lineup. He's more effective with the ball in his hand making basketball decisions with his high BBIQ. That will not happen here, he will become a shooter. He would be better with a team that has stronger ball movement like Atlanta, San Antonio or Golden State. Maybe even Boston.

[Micrew18]

Just ran through a few videos highlighting Deyonta Davis and while I acknowledge the fact I didn't watch entire games of him, he looks like a great talent. He could play the 4, but I think he would be way better suited to play the 5 in today's game. His rim protection, ability to contain on the PnR and the fact that he has decent post moves, a solid hook shot, and the makings of a solid midrange jumper sounds like a great young center to me. Wouldn't be mad if we took him, especially if we can't afford to resign Biyombo

Yeah, he looks like a great prospect. He definitely has the athleticism to play the 4, but could also play the 5.

He's the one big that I would be excited about drafting. Sky is the limit for him. Would be fun to watch him develop on the 905 next season.

Agreed. Like I said, if we can't afford Biyombo he could definitely fill in for him in that role right away imo

[CoachJReturns]

Bucks are so bad. I'm grateful they didn't blow it for us today. Would have been a disaster. Just need Lillard and the boys to smack down Denver and we have our 9th pick. Looking at a lot of past drafts there are a fair number where there isn't a whole lot to get excited about past the 9th pick. After that the better players are all over the board which means they're guys nobody really expected to reach their high level of play.

[MEDIC]

Like I said, if we can't afford Biyombo he could definitely fill in for him in that role right away imo

I don't know about that. Not if we want to win anyhow.

He'll need to learn the system, the NBA game & he really needs a lot of work on his body. The guy has less muscle on him than Bebe.

Bebe would easily better option right away & I hope they can sign JT to a cheap, short term contract.

[Micrew18]

Like I said, if we can't afford Biyombo he could definitely fill in for him in that role right away imo

I don't know about that. Not if we want to win anyhow.

He'll need to learn the system, the NBA game & he really needs a lot of work on his body. The guy has less muscle on him than Bebe.

Bebe would easily better option right away & I hope they can sign JT to a cheap, short term contract.

Yeah that works too. Regardless I'd love to have him in our arsenal

[0 - 100]

Bucks are so bad. I'm grateful they didn't blow it for us today. Would have been a disaster. Just need Lillard and the boys to smack down Denver and we have our 9th pick. Looking at a lot of past drafts there are a fair number where there isn't a whole lot to get excited about past the 9th pick. After that the better players are all over the board which means they're guys nobody really expected to reach their high level of play.

We need the Bucks to win at least one game out of their final two as well. If bucks lose the final two games and denver loses against portland, they will be tied and it will go to coin toss to determine 9 and 10. If Sac wins against PHX, there's going to be a 3 way tie and coin tosses will determine 8-9-10 lol. Pretty intense.

[Morse Code]

.....Medic, I don't know how much you've watched Jackson this past season in college, but you seem to really be focused on his 'highlights' and not on the bigger picture. The 'eye' test says his D is horrible. He seems to be a mediocre passer and rebounder as well. But can he explode to the rim and dunk? Hell yeah. Does that make him a candidate to replace Lowry? Hell no. It makes him one dimensional.

I've watched several Notre Dame games, pretty much all of the youtube stuff & of course DX's reviews. He may not have performed as well on D as one would like (as per the stats), but he definitely has the intensity, motor & speed to be a Lowry level defender in the NBA. Getting drafted to a Dwayne Casey team......he'd have to defend. I don't think Notre Dame was getting the most out of him on that side of the floor for whatever reason. A guy like Calderon is a bad defender simply because he is not capable. A guy like Jackson is capable, but needs seasoning.

We need two way players in the draft.

Agreed.

The team needs players who can make passes. We are really lacking in this department. We are about as far from a Spurs/Warriors clone in this regard as possible.

That's who we are though. It is by design to some degree.

I believe it was Dr Positivity who said that the players who fail at the next level after being drafted, are the ones that have average shooting in college or are one dimensional players. I don't know. Does Jackson sound like that? If he goes too high in this draft, I think his team will quickly start to consider him a bust. You know what I mean? It is like Ross. Mocks had him at 16 or 17, then he went 8th, but couldn't match the impact of the 6, 7 and 9 picks, so he kind of got that bust label. He is decent as a 20th pick, but a bust as an 8th pick. Make sense?

I don't see Jackson as one dimensional or being an average shooter. His NCAA career shooting percentages (.381 from three & .467 overall) are pretty decent. They are much better than a guy like Kemba Walker had at the NCAA level, who is carving out a pretty decent NBA career for himself (shot .378 from 3 this season & averaged 21.2ppg).

Ross was a very limited player. Skinny as hell, couldn't dribble to save his life. He was drafted as a 3+D type player & yes, 8th is definitely too high for a player like that (role player potential with some serious question marks). Ross was drafted for Casey, who fell for the guy while in Washington. I don't think Masai would have made that same choice.

I don't see Jackson as anything like Ross as a prospect (in terms of lacking multiple tools).

I see D. Jackson more as a Reggie Jackson, Kemba Walker, Isiah Thomas, Eric Bledsoe type PG prospect. More of a scoring PG with a strong build & athleticism. I think his game will be geared more towards the NBA rules where he can take advantage of his athleticism more.

I can see him being one of those guys 3 years down the road where people are saying "oh man, Demetrious Jackson would look really good on this team right now.....too bad we didn't draft him". (much like Ty Lawson, who's size was questioned & fell to 18th in the draft.......ended up outperforming his draft position for several years)

I could always be wrong (like many of us are), but I have to call it like I see it.

I love your insight deep6ix, and always look forward to reading your posts. Same with you medic, but I agree with Medic here. I don't know how to explain it but I just think Jackson will excel in the NBA, in a way that I think we'll notice almost right away if he goes to a team that he has a chance to play.

[MEDIC]

I don't know how to explain it but I just think Jackson will excel in the NBA, in a way that I think we'll notice almost right away if he goes to a team that he has a chance to play.

Found a pretty good assessment of him as a player on "fansided". Pretty much mirrors how I feel about him as a prospect. It also mentions how Notre Dame was the worst defensive team in the ACC, so his defensive rating was never going to be all that high.

https://behindthebuckpass.com/2016/04/09/nba-draft-2016-prospect-watch-demetrius-jackson/2/

However, Jackson’s biggest weakness by far lies on the defensive end.

That’s probably not too surprising since Jackson’s coming from a program like Notre Dame, who were ranked dead last in defensive rating (98.7 points per 100 possessions) in the ACC.

That isn’t to say Jackson isn’t capable of holding his own on the defensive end. In spite of his questionable defensive reputation, Jackson’s athleticism and his strength will counter some of his size disadvantages and he averaged 1.1 steals over his collegiate career.

The author makes this quote on his strengths:

Jackson’s athletic ability and explosiveness might be the first thing that comes to mind when discussing his game.

Jackson possesses blazing speed, especially in the open court and his incredible leaping ability may be unmatched when considering all of the available point guards in this draft. Additionally, he’s an incredibly strong player and it’s easy to think of Kyle Lowry as a comparison, especially when considering his smallish stature.

Another good "Feel good"article on his final game in the NCAA tourney:

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2016/03/28/doyel-emotional-end-demetrius-jackson/82332784/