Sam Hinkie steps down per Marc Stein

[tsmith]

I don't have time to explain Hinkie's plan to someone who doesn't understand it.

If you can't see that Embiid being set back a year and Saric having to spend another year in Europe as a reason for delayed gratification, then I don't know what to tell you.

I can't see the genius of not reaching the cap floor, trades towards building talent not being made, picking 3 centers in a row with your top pick, a 10 win team, not getting the top pick 2/3 years with "advanced tanking" and trading for second rounders at breakneck pace but still somehow not getting any starters from those "assets" and the players that were acquired were all bigs, further stacking up the position and hurting their value.

You are kidding yourself.

[GiantRobot]

I think people at this point thought that Embiid was going to be healthy and at least the Heat pick would convey.

So Embiid being healthy adds what? 2 wins to the win column? Fairly generous considering he plays the same position as the two best players on the roster and would likely play ~15-20 minutes a game coming back from injury. A mid round first rounder would never have been the difference on this roster, especially since the 2015 draft was not a particularly deep draft and Sam Hinkie has not shown himself to be a great talent evaluater.

Lets just say for example the heat pick conveyed at 12. I could name 12 impacts players from the draft.
How was he shown himself to not be a good talent evaluator? Give some evidence behind your very bold claims.

Considering he's made almost no acquisitions attempting to add players it is difficult to gauge his talent evaluation, but, the reports of him wanting Russell in 2015 are ominous now in retrospect given DR tepid numbers and the fact his teammates universally loathe him. Brett Brown saying the Sixers had Stauskas lined up at 10 doesn't looks all that great given the first two years of his career, one that will be long and fruitful.... once he's on another continent. All the second round picks he has had have not moved the needle and missed out on Clarkson.

[tsmith]

Lets just say for example the heat pick conveyed at 12. I could name 12 impacts players from the draft.
How was he shown himself to not be a good talent evaluator? Give some evidence behind your very bold claims.

Considering he's made almost no acquisitions attempting to add players it is difficult to gauge his talent evaluation, but, the reports of him wanting Russell in 2015 are ominous now in retrospect given DR tepid numbers and the fact his teammates universally loathe him. Brett Brown saying the Sixers had Stauskas lined up at 10 looks all that great given the first two years of his career, one that will be long and fruitful.... on another continent. All the second round picks he has had have not moved the needle and missed out on Clarkson.

He made moves that added assets, that can be used to add players.
What reports?
We are talking about Hinkie evaluating talent, not Brown.
Incorrect, Jeremi Grant and Richuan Holmes had an impact this year. Not to mention T.J Mconnell and Robert Covington being undrafted players that both obviously have a future in the NBA. I think that shows he has an eye for talent

[ET Da Gawd]

It's a shame how all these "sixers fans" are so excited to go back to the treadmill days, just goes to show how simple most humans are. People think Sam couldn't build a roster, this was phase 1. Now BC gonna try and get an 8 seed to appease the media. Team has 0 intention of getting a Larry o brien trophy


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[ET Da Gawd]

All these dudes sound like Orlando fans waiting for free agents to save them, no one wants to build their own franchise. Shame shame for the real fans who thought we were trying to be a true franchise


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[OleSchool]

I can't see the genius of not reaching the cap floor, trades towards building talent not being made

The reason for not reaching the cap floor was for the owners, not the Hinkie, and technically every year we did reach the floor. You may not have liked the way we reached the floor but we did. Complain to the league to change the rules

picking 3 centers in a row with your top pick,

The reason why we drafted 3 centers in a row was because they were BPA at the position we were drafting. Who besides KP, who forced his way to NY is or became an impact player?

a 10 win team, not getting the top pick 2/3 years with "advanced tanking"

You can't complain about not getting a top 2 pick for 2 years, (not 3) and then still being a 10 win team. So basically, you're saying you would rather have inept management then management purposeful losing to get a top pick.

and trading for second rounders at breakneck pace but still somehow not getting any starters from those "assets" and the players that were acquired were all bigs, further stacking up the position and hurting their value.

I think you mean accumulating 2nd's, not trading. The only 2nds he traded was in the SAC deal and for Ish, which was JC's doing, and the SAC deal brought in Nik. Like him or not he was slated as the starting 2. So he did bring in a starter a young one at that.

The bigs, Thompson and Landry were the "cost" of getting Nik.

[GiantRobot]

He made moves that added assets, that can be used to add players.

Aside from that he had chances to get talent. He has a bevy of second rounders, players that need to be traded thanks to their position redundancy and he didn't even reach the cap floor. He let Ish Smith go for free only to later give up two good second rounders for him during the season <===what?!

What reports?

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25163810/report-sixers-want-dangelo-russell-in-the-draft

Keith Pompey said they wanted Russell, and the guy they did pick they never worked out because they thought they were getting Russell. (btw great planning, Master Hinkie, really)

We are talking about Hinkie evaluating talent, not Brown.

Brown was told they were taking Stauskas. Also, who hired Brown? Jesus, the Sam Hinkie blame shell game is mind numbing.

Incorrect, Jeremi Grant and Richuan Holmes had an impact this year.

ahahaha

[GiantRobot]

It's a shame how all these "sixers fans" are so excited to go back to the treadmill days,

The team
does
not
have to
be
in constant
tear down mode
to tank

[ET Da Gawd]

3 seasons is constant? Okc took 4 years to get their core. I'm shocked that people think chips are born overnight, no thoughts to chemistry or letting the youngins learn how to take control themselves. Gonna blow free agent money on a weak class, shortsighted, not to mention dantoni as the next coach, we bout to be super small soft ball. Shame


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[tsmith]

He made moves that added assets, that can be used to add players.

Aside from that he had chances to get talent. He has a bevy of second rounders, players that need to be traded thanks to their position redundancy and he didn't even reach the cap floor. He let Ish Smith go for free only to later give up two good second rounders for him during the season <===what?!

What reports?

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25163810/report-sixers-want-dangelo-russell-in-the-draft

Keith Pompey said they wanted Russell, and the guy they did pick they never worked out because they thought they were getting Russell. (btw great planning, Master Hinkie, really)

We are talking about Hinkie evaluating talent, not Brown.

Brown was told they were taking Stauskas. Also, who hired Brown? Jesus, the Sam Hinkie blame shell game is mind numbing.

Incorrect, Jeremi Grant and Richuan Holmes had an impact this year.

ahahaha

That report did not bear the words of Hinkie saying he wanted Russell, all it said was 'the word on the street is they want Russell", means nothing when your dealing with Hinkie.

Brown said that he expected to leave the draft with Stauskas and Wiggins. But did we.....?

Laugh all you want about Grant and Holmes they are NBA players who started games this year.
At the end of the day, with all these changes in management we could very likely end up going back to the treadmill. With Hinkie, i can guarantee that we would never have been there. Only one team gets a parade each year.....

[OleSchool]

Considering he's made almost no acquisitions attempting to add players

Making trades for draft picks IS attempting to add players.Sorry you can't see that.

the reports of him wanting Russell in 2015 are ominous now in retrospect given DR tepid numbers and the fact his teammates universally loathe him.

Reports or rumors?? cause there is a difference. Remember all the "reports" of us wanting Wiggins and we would do whatever we could to get him? Then Woj comes out after the draft and said that was false.

Brett Brown saying the Sixers had Stauskas lined up at 10 doesn't looks all that great given the first two years of his career, one that will be long and fruitful.... once he's on another continent.

A

All teams had Nik as a top 10 pick. So you want to blame/be critical of Hinkies talent evaluation then you better be critical of every other team in the league.

All the second round picks he has had have not moved the needle and missed out on Clarkson.

LMAO really?? missing on Clarkson? a high volume chucker? ok fine. Then you better blame every single team for missing out on Draymond Green in 2012, and some teams even passed on him twice. Once in the 1st and again when their pick came up in the 2nd

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Giant Robot makes some good points. There are a few different ways to look at this. At then end of the day, there is absolutely no reason/excuse to lose 70 games in a season. Brown should be fired, Hinkie had to leave at that point, this has been all about tanking. 70 losses? I count maybe five NBA players on this roster, and the most talented of them all (Okafor) , idiots are clamoring for him to be traded in favor of Noel who does one thing really well, or better yet...in favor of the broken footed savior Joel Embiid.
The entire situation is a mess, how Hinkie was treated I don't agree with, but he was by no means a savant when it came to building or drafting. Doing what he did was easy, building it back is going to be the challenge.

[tk76]

It's a shame how all these "sixers fans" are so excited to go back to the treadmill days,

The team
does
not
have to
be
in constanty
tear down mode
to tank

You need at least one franchise level player in place before you start building incrementally. Why lock down big salary role players if you don't even know who will best complement your first star? This was the issue since AI left, and appears to be about to be the issue again unless Embiid or a pick this year emerges as a superstar.

An incremental rebuild like Toronto or Atlanta is just as risky/difficult as trying to build through the lottery- which Hinkie tried to the extreme and to his peril. The problem is that teams like Toronto are the ceiling of an incremental rebuild. So in exchange for less horrible seasons you pretty much ensure you have zero chance at a parade and a fairly low chance of getting to watch superstars like AI, Barkley or Dr. J. If the current Raptors are your best case scenario... the I'm not really that interested i watching that type of non-star team.

I have been arguing this since 2007, and posted here about it in 2009 (viewtopic.php?f=26&t=970468 .) If anything, I was one of Hinkie's biggest critics... because I felt his over-zealoul approach would lead to the owners to over-react.

[OleSchool]

Giant Robot makes some good points. There are a few different ways to look at this. At then end of the day, there is absolutely no reason/excuse to lose 70 games in a season. Brown should be fired, Hinkie had to leave at that point, this has been all about tanking. 70 losses? I count maybe five NBA players on this roster, and the most talented of them all (Okafor) , idiots are clamoring for him to be traded in favor of Noel who does one thing really well, or better yet...in favor of the broken footed savior Joel Embiid.
The entire situation is a mess, how Hinkie was treated I don't agree with, but he was by no means a savant when it came to building or drafting. Doing what he did was easy, building it back is going to be the challenge.

There are reason to be critical of Hinkie. The fact that there was not an experienced NBA point on this team to start the season was a huge mistake. But to say not getting a starter/impact player in the 2nd is ridiculous. Most teams are thrilled if their 2nd turns into a rotation guy. Hinkie was able to draft those guys in Grant and Holmes

[Negrodamus]

The funny thing is that this all time great Warriors team was built over 4 drafts

2009- Steph Curry
2010- Ekpe Udoh (Bust! THEIR ENTIRE PROCESS IS A SHAM! FIRE EVERYONE!)
2011- Klay Thompson
2012- Harrison Barnes, Festus Ezeli, Draymond Green

4 years. 4 years on top of 20 where they pretty much blew ass. 3 of those 4 they had soon-to-be 2 time MVP Steph Curry. Why would they keep sucking with Curry? Why didn't they splooge in FA on overpriced vets? They really blew it. Look at them now; struggling since they built through the draft. You're right, Hinkie was stupid to try and execute this plan. And when Embiid is healthy and kicking ass along with our first this year, we'll just hand Colangelo a 3rd Exec of the year trophy for trotting out Hinkie's players.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Giant Robot makes some good points. There are a few different ways to look at this. At then end of the day, there is absolutely no reason/excuse to lose 70 games in a season. Brown should be fired, Hinkie had to leave at that point, this has been all about tanking. 70 losses? I count maybe five NBA players on this roster, and the most talented of them all (Okafor) , idiots are clamoring for him to be traded in favor of Noel who does one thing really well, or better yet...in favor of the broken footed savior Joel Embiid.
The entire situation is a mess, how Hinkie was treated I don't agree with, but he was by no means a savant when it came to building or drafting. Doing what he did was easy, building it back is going to be the challenge.

There are reason to be critical of Hinkie. The fact that there was not an experienced NBA point on this team to start the season was a huge mistake. But to say not getting a starter/impact player in the 2nd is ridiculous. Most teams are thrilled if their 2nd turns into a rotation guy. Hinkie was able to draft those guys in Grant and Holmes

Where did I say that our second round picks needed to be superstars? I'm happy with Grant especially.

[OleSchool]

Giant Robot makes some good points. There are a few different ways to look at this. At then end of the day, there is absolutely no reason/excuse to lose 70 games in a season. Brown should be fired, Hinkie had to leave at that point, this has been all about tanking. 70 losses? I count maybe five NBA players on this roster, and the most talented of them all (Okafor) , idiots are clamoring for him to be traded in favor of Noel who does one thing really well, or better yet...in favor of the broken footed savior Joel Embiid.
The entire situation is a mess, how Hinkie was treated I don't agree with, but he was by no means a savant when it came to building or drafting. Doing what he did was easy, building it back is going to be the challenge.

There are reason to be critical of Hinkie. The fact that there was not an experienced NBA point on this team to start the season was a huge mistake. But to say not getting a starter/impact player in the 2nd is ridiculous. Most teams are thrilled if their 2nd turns into a rotation guy. Hinkie was able to draft those guys in Grant and Holmes

Where did I say that our second round picks needed to be superstars? I'm happy with Grant especially.

Referring to Giant not you

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

The funny thing is that this all time great Warriors team was built over 4 drafts

2009- Steph Curry
2010- Ekpe Udoh (Bust! THEIR ENTIRE PROCESS IS A SHAM! FIRE EVERYONE!)
2011- Klay Thompson
2012- Harrison Barnes, Festus Ezeli, Draymond Green

4 years. 4 years on top of 20 where they pretty much blew ass. 3 of those 4 they had soon-to-be 2 time MVP Steph Curry. Why would they keep sucking with Curry? Why didn't they splooge in FA on overpriced vets? They really blew it. Look at them now; struggling since they built through the draft. You're right, Hinkie was stupid to try and execute this plan. And when Embiid is healthy and kicking ass along with our first this year, we'll just hand Colangelo a 3rd Exec of the year trophy for trotting out Hinkie's players.

You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think Embiids gonna come in and just "kick ass". I don't want him kicking anything, he might break his glass foot. Embiid may very well be the biggest mistake Hinkie has ever made in his entire life, but i'm willing to wait and see. With that said, I have zero expectations for him. Okafor is our guy along with hopefully Simmons. Noel should be dealt, and Embiid put on a restricted minute watch.

[Negrodamus]

The funny thing is that this all time great Warriors team was built over 4 drafts

2009- Steph Curry
2010- Ekpe Udoh (Bust! THEIR ENTIRE PROCESS IS A SHAM! FIRE EVERYONE!)
2011- Klay Thompson
2012- Harrison Barnes, Festus Ezeli, Draymond Green

4 years. 4 years on top of 20 where they pretty much blew ass. 3 of those 4 they had soon-to-be 2 time MVP Steph Curry. Why would they keep sucking with Curry? Why didn't they splooge in FA on overpriced vets? They really blew it. Look at them now; struggling since they built through the draft. You're right, Hinkie was stupid to try and execute this plan. And when Embiid is healthy and kicking ass along with our first this year, we'll just hand Colangelo a 3rd Exec of the year trophy for trotting out Hinkie's players.

You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think Embiids gonna come in and just "kick ass". I don't want him kicking anything, he might break his glass foot. Embiid may very well be the biggest mistake Hinkie has ever made in his entire life, but i'm willing to wait and see. With that said, I have zero expectations for him. Okafor is our guy along with hopefully Simmons. Noel should be dealt, and Embiid put on a restricted minute watch.

I'm not saying the first year. Steph Curry wasn't the player he is today in his first year. I'm saying when everyone is playing at a high level, it won't be Hinkie getting the credit.

And if Colangelo is trying to create a Suns or Raptors type team, I hate to tell you this, but Okafor probably isn't part of that future. I don't anticipate him slimming down an incredible amount and being a guy who runs the floor. No slight to him, but that's not his game.

EDIT: Biggest mistake of his life? If Hinkie didn't resign, and Embiid dominates, he would have been vindicated. He might still be, but without the Sixers paying him.

[ET Da Gawd]

The funny thing is that this all time great Warriors team was built over 4 drafts

2009- Steph Curry
2010- Ekpe Udoh (Bust! THEIR ENTIRE PROCESS IS A SHAM! FIRE EVERYONE!)
2011- Klay Thompson
2012- Harrison Barnes, Festus Ezeli, Draymond Green

4 years. 4 years on top of 20 where they pretty much blew ass. 3 of those 4 they had soon-to-be 2 time MVP Steph Curry. Why would they keep sucking with Curry? Why didn't they splooge in FA on overpriced vets? They really blew it. Look at them now; struggling since they built through the draft. You're right, Hinkie was stupid to try and execute this plan. And when Embiid is healthy and kicking ass along with our first this year, we'll just hand Colangelo a 3rd Exec of the year trophy for trotting out Hinkie's players.

This was supposed to be the draft to finish out the core, I'm so disgusted at how we've been duped