2016 Draft

[MrMiyagi]

In 2013:
- We beat Dallas (4th last game) and Houston (2nd last game) to overtake 3rd place Cleveland by a game and drop to 4th.
- Cleveland wins the lottery with the balls we had with 4 games left in the season.

In 2016:
- We beat Houston (4th last game) and NO (3rd last game) to overtake 3rd place Brooklyn by a game and drop to 4th.

I really wish we had the opportunity to take Anthony Bennett, Otto Porter or Cody Zeller. Is Dipo really the guy we struck out on in that draft, or was it the guys who came later like Giannis, CJ McCollum, Gobert, all of whom we could have had at 5?

[saintEscaton]

Yeah our mistake was picking Len over Noel and the above mentioned (who were slotted to go later) but hindsight is 20/20. Sliding down to 4 might not be the worst thing ever, it could be a blessing in disguise if it means we miss out on Bender. If he likely busts we never had a shot at him, if he pans out we didn't pass on him

[AtheJ415]

Yeah our mistake was picking Len over Noel and the above mentioned (who were slotted to go later) but hindsight is 20/20. Sliding down to 4 might not be the worst thing ever, it could be a blessing in disguise if it means we miss out on Bender. If he likely busts we never had a shot at him, if he pans out we didn't pass on him

I'd still take Len over Noel. Their futures are far from certain and Len still has the higher upside imo. I think the game is still a little fast for him. Once it slows down I expect him to improve sharply. What I like though is he's getting a lot of shots. I think this offseason he'll embrace the roll of being a go to guy more and work to improve his offense further. His post game still needs work though his jump hook is somewhat consistent. He can draw fouls just with agility alone which is basically how he's living right now, but that's a good thing. His form is good and should become much more consistent, which is why I'm not worried about his FG% drop, similar to Booker's %'s dropping with higher usage. Neither expected to be in these roles coming into the year, whereas Noel really ought to have on Philly. I am concerned with Len's block #s, but I think offensively he'll be ahead of Noel pretty substantially when all is said and done. 2 way players are rare, and while Len won't be a star, he'll be above average on both ends imo, which is great for a 4th or 5th guy, even if he ends up more Andrew Bogut than Marc Gasol.

Giannis and McCollum were guys a lot of people liked before the draft. Gobert too, although I'm not certain anybody expected him to have the quick impact he has. Either way though, I think this goes to show that you can still get great building blocks in supposedly awful drafts.

[dremill24]

Yeah our mistake was picking Len over Noel and the above mentioned (who were slotted to go later) but hindsight is 20/20. Sliding down to 4 might not be the worst thing ever, it could be a blessing in disguise if it means we miss out on Bender. If he likely busts we never had a shot at him, if he pans out we didn't pass on him

I'd still take Len over Noel. Their futures are far from certain and Len still has the higher upside imo. I think the game is still a little fast for him. Once it slows down I expect him to improve sharply. What I like though is he's getting a lot of shots. I think this offseason he'll embrace the roll of being a go to guy more and work to improve his offense further. His post game still needs work though his jump hook is somewhat consistent. He can draw fouls just with agility alone which is basically how he's living right now, but that's a good thing. His form is good and should become much more consistent, which is why I'm not worried about his FG% drop, similar to Booker's %'s dropping with higher usage. Neither expected to be in these roles coming into the year, whereas Noel really ought to have on Philly. I am concerned with Len's block #s, but I think offensively he'll be ahead of Noel pretty substantially when all is said and done. 2 way players are rare, and while Len won't be a star, he'll be above average on both ends imo, which is great for a 4th or 5th guy, even if he ends up more Andrew Bogut than Marc Gasol.

Giannis and McCollum were guys a lot of people liked before the draft. Gobert too, although I'm not certain anybody expected him to have the quick impact he has. Either way though, I think this goes to show that you can still get great building blocks in supposedly awful drafts.

The 2 aren't really the same tho. Booker is missing a lot of makeable shots, and ones he's shown the ability to hit. Len on the other hand is missing **** he has no business Taking, and looks awful doing it.

[Weemsickew14]

Jamal Murray Devin Booker back-court?

[AtheJ415]

Yeah our mistake was picking Len over Noel and the above mentioned (who were slotted to go later) but hindsight is 20/20. Sliding down to 4 might not be the worst thing ever, it could be a blessing in disguise if it means we miss out on Bender. If he likely busts we never had a shot at him, if he pans out we didn't pass on him

I'd still take Len over Noel. Their futures are far from certain and Len still has the higher upside imo. I think the game is still a little fast for him. Once it slows down I expect him to improve sharply. What I like though is he's getting a lot of shots. I think this offseason he'll embrace the roll of being a go to guy more and work to improve his offense further. His post game still needs work though his jump hook is somewhat consistent. He can draw fouls just with agility alone which is basically how he's living right now, but that's a good thing. His form is good and should become much more consistent, which is why I'm not worried about his FG% drop, similar to Booker's %'s dropping with higher usage. Neither expected to be in these roles coming into the year, whereas Noel really ought to have on Philly. I am concerned with Len's block #s, but I think offensively he'll be ahead of Noel pretty substantially when all is said and done. 2 way players are rare, and while Len won't be a star, he'll be above average on both ends imo, which is great for a 4th or 5th guy, even if he ends up more Andrew Bogut than Marc Gasol.

Giannis and McCollum were guys a lot of people liked before the draft. Gobert too, although I'm not certain anybody expected him to have the quick impact he has. Either way though, I think this goes to show that you can still get great building blocks in supposedly awful drafts.

The 2 aren't really the same tho. Booker is missing a lot of makeable shots, and ones he's shown the ability to hit. Len on the other hand is missing **** he has no business Taking, and looks awful doing it.

Even if what you're saying is true (and imo it isn't), then that's even better, because it's just a decision-making issue and not an actual shooting regression. If anything, it proves even more that his jumper hasn't really gotten worse. What you're stating would provide more concern for Booker, if he's missing taking shots he used to hit regularly and which he ought to keep taking going forward. I wouldn't expect a young big who was expecting to come off the bench this season to suddenly be making great decisions as the #2 option on the offense.

[AtheJ415]

Jamal Murray Devin Booker back-court?

I hope not. Our front court needs help, not our backcourt. Our backcourt gets the hate on this board but they have so much more talent than our front court, and there are guys as good with as much or higher upside at the 4 spot we could take than another guard in Murray.

[jcsunsfan]

Because he is from Europe and is white
The same was talked about Porzingis. That he is few years away from contribution in NBA team.

KP made the most of limited opportunity given to Sevilla , playing in the weaker Liga ACB which may not be as stiff competition but still more impressive than Bender who is a third string bench player on team that couldn't even qualify for Euroleague. Looks like a scrub out there but he is just a kid after all and two years junior

Dude, when KP was the same age as Bender he posted almost the exact same stats as him.

KP : 6.9 pts, 2.8 reb, 0.3 ast, 0.6 stl, 0.9 blk ,0.8 TO, 47.4 FG%, 30.2 3P% on 1.5 3PA, 11.4 REB%, 15.2 mins per game

Bender: 6.3 pts, 2.9 reb, 0.8 ast, 0.7 stl, 0.8 blk, 0,7 TO, 51.2 FG% , 45.1 3P% on 2.4 3PA, 12.8 REB%, 14 mins per game

People keep forgetting that KP is 2 yrs and 3 months older than Bender.

There are thousands of players that post numbers like that at that age. That's the whole point. Bender is an absolute crap shoot. Those numbers tell you nothing. Porzingus developed, others dont. Don't miss what a player is while trying to look at what you think he will be.

[rsavaj]

Can't blame anyone for missing on Gobert and Giannis, since taking either of them at 5 would have been seen as a giant reach at the time. We're looking at it with the benefit of hindsight.

The one that I think about more than Noel is McCollum. He's everything we want Knight to be.

Crazy thing is that Knight is actually younger than CJ O_O.

[gaspar]

[Tweet]https://twitter.com/kpelton/status/719593187270995968[/Tweet]

[NavLDO]

Six million dollars for Jon Leuer? I heard Hakim Warrick is available...

You take the opportunities you get. You can't just go out and get a max free agent. They have to agree to sign. That'ot

Whoa...slow down, there, slappy. Where have you been for the past, oh, IDK, 5 years, and Sarver's stunts, interviews, etc.

I never once said Philly, I said stop signing non-All-Stars to 15-20% of our cap. Hindsight?? Really?? How many non-All-NBA, 33 YO players receive $13M per for 4 years? That's not hindsight; everyone knew at the time it was an overpay. Getting quality FAs to sign here? How about develop some youth INTO All-Stars, like many teams do. That's all I'm saying. If anything, as I've stated recently, they should attempt an approach closer to Minny's. I'm saying, quit buying non-All-NBA types, that would be 2 in one year, for 2/5ths of our cap this year, and darn near 1/3 of our cap next year. Especially, when we have another $14M, non-All-NBA contract on the books.

And Jon Leuer, for what would be the equivalent of about $4.2M per last year, is a heck of a lot better than Chandler for 3X that much. Sorry bub, that's not hindsight. Jon Leuer, when actually given minutes, like December, was shooting 53%, 39.4% from 3, bringing in 7 Rebs and scoring nearly 12 per game in 26 minutes per game. That's sure as heck worth about $6M at nest year's Salary Cap number of $89M. We could sign him 15X for that amount. Last year the Cap was $63M, or 71% of next years Cap of, again $89M, so yeah, $6M for a bench PF, which we have how many on contract next season?? Oh, that's right, none!

Knight's contract of $14M was ALSO considered an overpay when it happened. Don't believe me?? Go back to posts both on this forum and the T&T forum. Get outta here with your "hindsight" crap--they were junk deals when they happened. At least Chandler made SOME sense, because we needed a Vet Big, but hey, let's trade away IT, a PG, who cost half as much, and gave more production, for Knight, another PG. Oh wait, he was a 'ball hog', thank goodness Knight's not that way...whew...

So when you ACTUALLY understand what I was posting, and ACTUALLY know the difference between a contract signed under $63M, one signed under $70M (this year), and one signed under an $89M Cap, come on back and discuss.

Where did I EVER say following the Philly model...when did I EVER say we could sign any Max FA...and Sarver??? Yeah, he's the owner, the one paying the bills, hiring and firing GMs and HCs...so yeah, I am gonna blame the owner for some of this; McD owns some of this, for sure, but Sarver is FAR from blameless. So again, when you understand what I was getting at, and understand the Cap situation, then feel free to comment, but until then, making baseless accusations as to what I said is pointless, because that's not what I said...like, not even close...

Sorry I upset you. I believe my reading comprehension skills are fine, though.

Following Minnesota's model... I don't even know what that means. First, we must have a superstar and a team willing to give us the #1 pick for him. The following year, we must win the lottery. That's not a plan. You just chose the one team with better young talent than us and said, "We should be them." Might as well say we should be the '84 Bulls.

Nope you didn't upset me. And no your reading comprehension is not fine. You didn't address a single thing I said and put words in my mouth twice now, which leads me to believe you are not understanding what I am posting. It's like you are replying to a different post altogether. I never said we were following the Philly plan, nor a host of other things you claim that I said. But go on believing what you want to believe.

[DRK]

Can't blame anyone for missing on Gobert and Giannis, since taking either of them at 5 would have been seen as a giant reach at the time. We're looking at it with the benefit of hindsight.

The one that I think about more than Noel is McCollum. He's everything we want Knight to be.

Crazy thing is that Knight is actually younger than CJ O_O.

I remember one of the writers on brightsun had Gobert as their number 5 pick not long before the draft. That was rather controversial but it seems like he was right after all.

I still think Noel wouldve been great for us. I was pretty disapointed we didnt get him. Hes like the perfect mobile/defensive big man the modern NBA team needs.

[bwgood77]

Can't blame anyone for missing on Gobert and Giannis, since taking either of them at 5 would have been seen as a giant reach at the time. We're looking at it with the benefit of hindsight.

The one that I think about more than Noel is McCollum. He's everything we want Knight to be.

Crazy thing is that Knight is actually younger than CJ O_O.

I remember one of the writers on brightsun had Gobert as their number 5 pick not long before the draft. That was rather controversial but it seems like he was right after all.

I still think Noel wouldve been great for us. I was pretty disapointed we didnt get him. Hes like the perfect mobile/defensive big man the modern NBA team needs.

I recently did a Noel/Faried comparison in their second years and very similar. I'm not sure his skill set is that desired. He got a little more blocks and steals but was worse in other areas...but similar overall.

That skillset isn't terribly important in today's nba, unless you are surrounded by 4 premier shooters.

As a couple people have said, I think I would still take Len...not because I think he is better now, but because I think his shooting defiencies have suffered from playing the 4 and not having Bledsoe, who he had developed a chemistry with. Confidence seems to be an issue, but he is an elite rebounder, and I imagine his blocks would go up if he played center without Chandler, as would his shooting.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Lottery odds with my prediction for who McDonough will pick:

Pick 1 - 12% (Simmons)
Pick 2 - 12% (Ingram)
Pick 3 - 13% (Bender) or trade
Pick 4 - 10% (Murray) or trade
Pick 5 - 36% (Murray) or trade
Pick 6 - 15% (Brown) or trade
Pick 7 - 2% (Brown) or trade

I place 33% chance pick 3 to 7 is traded so:

= 32% Murray, 25% Traded, 12% Simmons, 12% Ingram, 12% Brown, 9% Bender.

[Ryu]

I hope we pass on Murray and Brown. There is no need for Jamal Murray with Booker and Bogdanović while I don`t like Jaylen Brown at all.

I like Simmons, Ingram and Bender, they`re prospects with huge potential and after them a PF crop is interesting. I`d pick one of Chriss, Rabb, Davis, Sabonis or Labissierre with the Wizz pick for sure.

[sunsbg]

I hope we pass on Murray and Brown. There is no need for Jamal Murray with Booker and Bogdanović while I don`t like Jaylen Brown at all.

I like Simmons, Ingram and Bender, they`re prospects with huge potential and after them a PF crop is interesting. I`d pick one of Chriss, Rabb, Davis, Sabonis or Labissierre with the Wizz pick for sure.

I agree completely.

Which teams that may draft before the Suns have a need for Murray and Brown ?

[MathiasPW]

I hope we pass on Murray and Brown. There is no need for Jamal Murray with Booker and Bogdanović while I don`t like Jaylen Brown at all.

I like Simmons, Ingram and Bender, they`re prospects with huge potential and after them a PF crop is interesting. I`d pick one of Chriss, Rabb, Davis, Sabonis or Labissierre with the Wizz pick for sure.

I agree completely.

Which teams that may draft before the Suns have a need for Murray and Brown ?

Over Ingram and Simmons, no one. But Philly needs help in the backcourt (1, 2 and 3, even 4, if you assume Noel Okafor and Embiid all to be strictly C, as many state.)
Lakers are good at the 1 and 2, have Randle at the 4, could go for Brown at the 3.
Celtics got lucky with Crowder and are heavy at the backcourt, so no chance.

Then there are still the odds of being jumped...

[sunsbg]

What happened with the rumours that Philly will trade Okafor ? I think he will be a good complement to Len and in case we are picking outside top 2 maybe a trade is the right move. Are Colangelos running Philly making it a more likely scenario ?

[bwgood77]

I hope we pass on Murray and Brown. There is no need for Jamal Murray with Booker and Bogdanović while I don`t like Jaylen Brown at all.

I like Simmons, Ingram and Bender, they`re prospects with huge potential and after them a PF crop is interesting. I`d pick one of Chriss, Rabb, Davis, Sabonis or Labissierre with the Wizz pick for sure.

I agree completely.

Which teams that may draft before the Suns have a need for Murray and Brown ?

You'd have to go through all the lottery teams because anyone could jump, and anyone in top 2 could fall to 3. I think the Celtics, Sixers, Pelicans, Kings, Minnesota, Milwaukee, Utah or Chicago could go Murray.

The Lakers, Pelicans, Nuggets, Bucks, Toronto, Sacramento, Utah could go Brown.

Whoever I didn't name could go either.

[jcsunsfan]

Well, after thinking about it for a long time, I think I would go with Ingram over Simmons at #1. My reasons would be these. He seems to have less character issues. He has a better motor. His role would be more clearly defined. His length would be top 5 in the NBA for his position (sf) maybe even top 2. He has the other skills. Its close, but that's the way it would tip.