PG: Grant Looks Like Bull in PnR

[Deeeez Knicks]

I think Blatt might be our best chance. He played with Mills so has his support, his coaching philosophies coincides with Phil’s ideals so maybe he has a chance to get hired, yet he is not a triangle coach and much more creative, he should be great for Porzingis and finding ways to utilize him, and I would think he learned a lot from the Cleveland experience.

Seems like he would be a really good fit here and a nice compromise if we must.

how is that ?

Blatt ran a modified Princeton, with high/low sets, off the ball movement, off the ball screens and picks and a lot of read and reacts which is what the triangle is all about. Blatt seemed to run a lot more pick n roll variations though, which would be great here. Some of his plays look pretty similar to the triangle, except with different spacing.

http://www.fearthesword.com/2014/7/3/5857696/what-is-david-blatts-offense-going-to-look-like

Triangle has some similarty to the Princeton offense and I know Pete Carril and Phil have a lot of respect from each other. All 3 of Blatt, Phil, and Carril really value all those 7 dimensions of a sound offense that Phil always mentions (movement, penetration, spacing, passing, making the right decision, etc).

It makes some sense since its a relative of the triangle, but it would still not be the triangle. Just a matter of how much Phil is willing to concede that part. There might be a better chance at Blatt then Thibs, if only because Mills has a relationship with him while Thibs is off that JVG/Riley coaching tree.

To begin, I went old school — to the retired coach Pete Carril. Carril said he adapted his influential Princeton offense from the Red Auerbach-coached Celtics, whose center was Bill Russell, the big sun who warmed four orbiting teammates with passes.
“I took the best parts of the Boston Celtics,” Carril, who coached the Tigers from 1967 to 1996, said. “They moved the ball around, had good passers, good shooters, and the center who loved to pass the ball and built his game around helping four other guys succeed.”
That agrees with one of the major tenets of the triangle, which prefers the ball distribution to flow from the post rather than a guard out at the point. The triangle, similar to the Princeton offense, also asks for cuts along vectors plotted to maximize the use of floor space, stressing the defense with a relentless sequence of passes.
Like most of the professional and college coaches I spoke with, Carril abhors the current strategic trends in the N.B.A., which he thinks shun passing combinations in reducing the game to pick-and-rolls and 3-pointers.
“I don’t see the mystery of the triangle offense, except it goes against the grain of the way the game is played today,” Carril said.

[TrueWarrior]

The sad thing about Sasha is even though he was terrible most of the year, he's about at his career averages for the season now with his latest streak.

His 3P% of .371 is the exact same as his career 3P% of .371, and his FG% of .387 is just below his career FG% of .395.

So basically this is who Sasha is. He's always been streaky as hell. I wouldn't mind him as a 15th man b/c I like his spunk, but you know damn well he's going to end up playing more than everyone wants again as long as the triangle remains. Guy is not going to shoot like this for long.

[ctorres]

I think Blatt might be our best chance. He played with Mills so has his support, his coaching philosophies coincides with Phil’s ideals so maybe he has a chance to get hired, yet he is not a triangle coach and much more creative, he should be great for Porzingis and finding ways to utilize him, and I would think he learned a lot from the Cleveland experience.

Seems like he would be a really good fit here and a nice compromise if we must.

how is that ?

Blatt ran a modified Princeton, with high/low sets, off the ball movement, off the ball screens and picks and a lot of read and reacts which is what the triangle is all about. Blatt seemed to run a lot more pick n roll variations though, which would be great here. Some of his plays look pretty similar to the triangle, except with different spacing.

http://www.fearthesword.com/2014/7/3/5857696/what-is-david-blatts-offense-going-to-look-like

Triangle has some similarty to the Princeton offense and I know Pete Carril and Phil have a lot of respect from each other. All 3 of Blatt, Phil, and Carril really value all those 7 dimensions of a sound offense that Phil always mentions (movement, penetration, spacing, passing, making the right decision, etc).

It makes some sense since its a relative of the triangle, but it would still not be the triangle. Just a matter of how much Phil is willing to concede that part. There might be a better chance at Blatt then Thibs, if only because Mills has a relationship with him while Thibs is off that JVG/Riley coaching tree.

To begin, I went old school — to the retired coach Pete Carril. Carril said he adapted his influential Princeton offense from the Red Auerbach-coached Celtics, whose center was Bill Russell, the big sun who warmed four orbiting teammates with passes.
“I took the best parts of the Boston Celtics,” Carril, who coached the Tigers from 1967 to 1996, said. “They moved the ball around, had good passers, good shooters, and the center who loved to pass the ball and built his game around helping four other guys succeed.”
That agrees with one of the major tenets of the triangle, which prefers the ball distribution to flow from the post rather than a guard out at the point. The triangle, similar to the Princeton offense, also asks for cuts along vectors plotted to maximize the use of floor space, stressing the defense with a relentless sequence of passes.
Like most of the professional and college coaches I spoke with, Carril abhors the current strategic trends in the N.B.A., which he thinks shun passing combinations in reducing the game to pick-and-rolls and 3-pointers.
“I don’t see the mystery of the triangle offense, except it goes against the grain of the way the game is played today,” Carril said.

Does Thibodeau lack any of the 7 dimensions? I've wondered if the problem is that Thibodeau CAN run an offense to Phil's liking (as seen in that one YouTube video floating around), but he would still play guys who can't run the offense right as long as they defend at an elite level.

Basically, Thibs won't sacrifice his defense to run a perfect offense, which I guess is contrary to what Phil would do.

Blatt might be more a happy medium. I would just hope that If Blatt was our coach, Melo would pride himself in doing what Lebron was not able to accomplish, get along with his coach and win with him. Would really be one of the best ways Melo could stand out from Lebron.

[Deeeez Knicks]

how is that ?

Blatt ran a modified Princeton, with high/low sets, off the ball movement, off the ball screens and picks and a lot of read and reacts which is what the triangle is all about. Blatt seemed to run a lot more pick n roll variations though, which would be great here. Some of his plays look pretty similar to the triangle, except with different spacing.

http://www.fearthesword.com/2014/7/3/5857696/what-is-david-blatts-offense-going-to-look-like

Triangle has some similarty to the Princeton offense and I know Pete Carril and Phil have a lot of respect from each other. All 3 of Blatt, Phil, and Carril really value all those 7 dimensions of a sound offense that Phil always mentions (movement, penetration, spacing, passing, making the right decision, etc).

It makes some sense since its a relative of the triangle, but it would still not be the triangle. Just a matter of how much Phil is willing to concede that part. There might be a better chance at Blatt then Thibs, if only because Mills has a relationship with him while Thibs is off that JVG/Riley coaching tree.

To begin, I went old school — to the retired coach Pete Carril. Carril said he adapted his influential Princeton offense from the Red Auerbach-coached Celtics, whose center was Bill Russell, the big sun who warmed four orbiting teammates with passes.
“I took the best parts of the Boston Celtics,” Carril, who coached the Tigers from 1967 to 1996, said. “They moved the ball around, had good passers, good shooters, and the center who loved to pass the ball and built his game around helping four other guys succeed.”
That agrees with one of the major tenets of the triangle, which prefers the ball distribution to flow from the post rather than a guard out at the point. The triangle, similar to the Princeton offense, also asks for cuts along vectors plotted to maximize the use of floor space, stressing the defense with a relentless sequence of passes.
Like most of the professional and college coaches I spoke with, Carril abhors the current strategic trends in the N.B.A., which he thinks shun passing combinations in reducing the game to pick-and-rolls and 3-pointers.
“I don’t see the mystery of the triangle offense, except it goes against the grain of the way the game is played today,” Carril said.

Does Thibodeau lack any of the 7 dimensions? I've wondered if the problem is that Thibodeau CAN run an offense to Phil's liking (as seen in that one YouTube video floating around), but he would still play guys who can't run the offense right as long as they defend at an elite level.

Basically, Thibs won't sacrifice his defense to run a perfect offense, which I guess is contrary to what Phil would do.

Blatt might be more a happy medium. I would just hope that If Blatt was our coach, Melo would pride himself in doing what Lebron was not able to accomplish, get along with his coach and win with him. Would really be one of the best ways Melo could stand out from Lebron.

Phil also seemed to believe in defense first so you would think they could relate on that level.

Offensively its hard to say. I think Blatt's system is closer then Thibs to what Phil is looking for, but who really knows. Just a guess. Being from a rival coaching tree and that Thibs may be more vocal about bringing in his players and his coaches may be enough to rule him out even if they can agree on some things. Phil may have to yield some more power then he’d like. Really tough to know what Phil is thinking.

[god shammgod]

I think Blatt might be our best chance. He played with Mills so has his support, his coaching philosophies coincides with Phil’s ideals so maybe he has a chance to get hired, yet he is not a triangle coach and much more creative, he should be great for Porzingis and finding ways to utilize him, and I would think he learned a lot from the Cleveland experience.

Seems like he would be a really good fit here and a nice compromise if we must.

how is that ?

Blatt ran a modified Princeton, with high/low sets, off the ball movement, off the ball screens and picks and a lot of read and reacts which is what the triangle is all about. Blatt seemed to run a lot more pick n roll variations though, which would be great here. Some of his plays look pretty similar to the triangle, except with different spacing.

http://www.fearthesword.com/2014/7/3/5857696/what-is-david-blatts-offense-going-to-look-like

Triangle has some similarty to the Princeton offense and I know Pete Carril and Phil have a lot of respect from each other. All 3 of Blatt, Phil, and Carril really value all those 7 dimensions of a sound offense that Phil always mentions (movement, penetration, spacing, passing, making the right decision, etc).

It makes some sense since its a relative of the triangle, but it would still not be the triangle. Just a matter of how much Phil is willing to concede that part. There might be a better chance at Blatt then Thibs, if only because Mills has a relationship with him while Thibs is off that JVG/Riley coaching tree.

To begin, I went old school — to the retired coach Pete Carril. Carril said he adapted his influential Princeton offense from the Red Auerbach-coached Celtics, whose center was Bill Russell, the big sun who warmed four orbiting teammates with passes.
“I took the best parts of the Boston Celtics,” Carril, who coached the Tigers from 1967 to 1996, said. “They moved the ball around, had good passers, good shooters, and the center who loved to pass the ball and built his game around helping four other guys succeed.”
That agrees with one of the major tenets of the triangle, which prefers the ball distribution to flow from the post rather than a guard out at the point. The triangle, similar to the Princeton offense, also asks for cuts along vectors plotted to maximize the use of floor space, stressing the defense with a relentless sequence of passes.
Like most of the professional and college coaches I spoke with, Carril abhors the current strategic trends in the N.B.A., which he thinks shun passing combinations in reducing the game to pick-and-rolls and 3-pointers.
“I don’t see the mystery of the triangle offense, except it goes against the grain of the way the game is played today,” Carril said.

i think you're being overly optimistic. the message everyone is sending right now is that the triangle takes time and they're fully invested in it. he's not interested in any coach that it is not using it. they don't want to switch now. hell, thibs runs it some and he still probably won't get a look because he doesn't run it enough.

[Sark]

Thibs not getting a look has to do with his ties to Jeff Van Gundy, not the offense he runs.

[islanders11040]

Sasha has been an April beast

14/5/2 on 50/50/90

[Deeeez Knicks]

how is that ?

Blatt ran a modified Princeton, with high/low sets, off the ball movement, off the ball screens and picks and a lot of read and reacts which is what the triangle is all about. Blatt seemed to run a lot more pick n roll variations though, which would be great here. Some of his plays look pretty similar to the triangle, except with different spacing.

http://www.fearthesword.com/2014/7/3/5857696/what-is-david-blatts-offense-going-to-look-like

Triangle has some similarty to the Princeton offense and I know Pete Carril and Phil have a lot of respect from each other. All 3 of Blatt, Phil, and Carril really value all those 7 dimensions of a sound offense that Phil always mentions (movement, penetration, spacing, passing, making the right decision, etc).

It makes some sense since its a relative of the triangle, but it would still not be the triangle. Just a matter of how much Phil is willing to concede that part. There might be a better chance at Blatt then Thibs, if only because Mills has a relationship with him while Thibs is off that JVG/Riley coaching tree.

To begin, I went old school — to the retired coach Pete Carril. Carril said he adapted his influential Princeton offense from the Red Auerbach-coached Celtics, whose center was Bill Russell, the big sun who warmed four orbiting teammates with passes.
“I took the best parts of the Boston Celtics,” Carril, who coached the Tigers from 1967 to 1996, said. “They moved the ball around, had good passers, good shooters, and the center who loved to pass the ball and built his game around helping four other guys succeed.”
That agrees with one of the major tenets of the triangle, which prefers the ball distribution to flow from the post rather than a guard out at the point. The triangle, similar to the Princeton offense, also asks for cuts along vectors plotted to maximize the use of floor space, stressing the defense with a relentless sequence of passes.
Like most of the professional and college coaches I spoke with, Carril abhors the current strategic trends in the N.B.A., which he thinks shun passing combinations in reducing the game to pick-and-rolls and 3-pointers.
“I don’t see the mystery of the triangle offense, except it goes against the grain of the way the game is played today,” Carril said.

i think you're being overly optimistic. the message everyone is sending right now is that the triangle takes time and they're fully invested in it. he's not interested in any coach that it is not using it. they don't want to switch now. hell, thibs runs it some and he still probably won't get a look because he doesn't run it enough.

Maybe. But I am not sure how reliable those messages are when they are coming from the messengers that are the NY Knicks beat writers.

If you go by Phil's message, then he will consider a non triangle coach. He has been pretty honest overall

[god shammgod]

Blatt ran a modified Princeton, with high/low sets, off the ball movement, off the ball screens and picks and a lot of read and reacts which is what the triangle is all about. Blatt seemed to run a lot more pick n roll variations though, which would be great here. Some of his plays look pretty similar to the triangle, except with different spacing.

http://www.fearthesword.com/2014/7/3/5857696/what-is-david-blatts-offense-going-to-look-like

Triangle has some similarty to the Princeton offense and I know Pete Carril and Phil have a lot of respect from each other. All 3 of Blatt, Phil, and Carril really value all those 7 dimensions of a sound offense that Phil always mentions (movement, penetration, spacing, passing, making the right decision, etc).

It makes some sense since its a relative of the triangle, but it would still not be the triangle. Just a matter of how much Phil is willing to concede that part. There might be a better chance at Blatt then Thibs, if only because Mills has a relationship with him while Thibs is off that JVG/Riley coaching tree.

i think you're being overly optimistic. the message everyone is sending right now is that the triangle takes time and they're fully invested in it. he's not interested in any coach that it is not using it. they don't want to switch now. hell, thibs runs it some and he still probably won't get a look because he doesn't run it enough.

Maybe. But I am not sure how reliable those messages are when they are coming from the messengers that are the NY Knicks beat writers.

they're also coming from rambis and even melo to an extent

[AmazingJason]

I think Blatt might be our best chance. He played with Mills so has his support, his coaching philosophies coincides with Phil’s ideals so maybe he has a chance to get hired, yet he is not a triangle coach and much more creative, he should be great for Porzingis and finding ways to utilize him, and I would think he learned a lot from the Cleveland experience.

Seems like he would be a really good fit here and a nice compromise if we must.

how is that ?

Blatt ran a modified Princeton, with high/low sets, off the ball movement, off the ball screens and picks and a lot of read and reacts which is what the triangle is all about. Blatt seemed to run a lot more pick n roll variations though, which would be great here. Some of his plays look pretty similar to the triangle, except with different spacing.

http://www.fearthesword.com/2014/7/3/5857696/what-is-david-blatts-offense-going-to-look-like

Triangle has some similarty to the Princeton offense and I know Pete Carril and Phil have a lot of respect from each other. All 3 of Blatt, Phil, and Carril really value all those 7 dimensions of a sound offense that Phil always mentions (movement, penetration, spacing, passing, making the right decision, etc).

It makes some sense since its a relative of the triangle, but it would still not be the triangle. Just a matter of how much Phil is willing to concede that part. There might be a better chance at Blatt then Thibs, if only because Mills has a relationship with him while Thibs is off that JVG/Riley coaching tree.

To begin, I went old school — to the retired coach Pete Carril. Carril said he adapted his influential Princeton offense from the Red Auerbach-coached Celtics, whose center was Bill Russell, the big sun who warmed four orbiting teammates with passes.
“I took the best parts of the Boston Celtics,” Carril, who coached the Tigers from 1967 to 1996, said. “They moved the ball around, had good passers, good shooters, and the center who loved to pass the ball and built his game around helping four other guys succeed.”
That agrees with one of the major tenets of the triangle, which prefers the ball distribution to flow from the post rather than a guard out at the point. The triangle, similar to the Princeton offense, also asks for cuts along vectors plotted to maximize the use of floor space, stressing the defense with a relentless sequence of passes.
Like most of the professional and college coaches I spoke with, Carril abhors the current strategic trends in the N.B.A., which he thinks shun passing combinations in reducing the game to pick-and-rolls and 3-pointers.
“I don’t see the mystery of the triangle offense, except it goes against the grain of the way the game is played today,” Carril said.

Blatt would be a fantastic choice. He is a transcendent coach and one of the best in the world. Although he doesn't have Thibs' NBA track record and reputation, Blatt potentially is superior to him. I honestly think it's more likely that Blatt is a championship level coach than Thibs. The only thing - like you mentioned - is that he doesn't run the triangle.

[AmazingJason]

i think you're being overly optimistic. the message everyone is sending right now is that the triangle takes time and they're fully invested in it. he's not interested in any coach that it is not using it. they don't want to switch now. hell, thibs runs it some and he still probably won't get a look because he doesn't run it enough.

Maybe. But I am not sure how reliable those messages are when they are coming from the messengers that are the NY Knicks beat writers.

they're also coming from rambis and even melo to an extent

Yeah, pretty much direct quotes coming from Rambis.

Melo is smoking the weed, too. He is beginning to sound like Phil.

[Deeeez Knicks]

i think you're being overly optimistic. the message everyone is sending right now is that the triangle takes time and they're fully invested in it. he's not interested in any coach that it is not using it. they don't want to switch now. hell, thibs runs it some and he still probably won't get a look because he doesn't run it enough.

Maybe. But I am not sure how reliable those messages are when they are coming from the messengers that are the NY Knicks beat writers.

they're also coming from rambis and even melo to an extent

One day Melo says he expects a coaching search and he will break out his little black book to get free agents and the next day he wants everyone back.

Of course Rambis is gonna be positive about coming back. Dude is still just the interim coach. Its all just formality talk. Whether he will or won't be back, everyone would be saying the same thing so it really doesnt mean much until its offical.

[K_ick_God]

Maybe. But I am not sure how reliable those messages are when they are coming from the messengers that are the NY Knicks beat writers.

they're also coming from rambis and even melo to an extent

One day Melo says he expects a coaching search and he will break out his little black book to get free agents and the next day he wants everyone back.

Of course Rambis is gonna be positive about coming back. Dude is still just the interim coach. Its all just formality talk. Whether he will or won't be back, everyone would be saying the same thing so it really doesnt mean much until its offical.

Melo is all over the road with his statements, and I can't help but think it's sort of an indication of whether Melo ever had it in him to be a truly great player. Clear mind, clear thinking, clear purpose.

I knew we were doomed when Mike D'Antoni sounded like a character from King of the Hill. He made no sense 95% of the time and just smiled and ran his mouth in many directions, all of them without any attention to detail ... in 7 seconds or less. Not too many great leaders who make no sense.

Kind of a weird comparison I realize. But Melo makes no sense, just like Mike D'Antoni doesn't. That doesn't build my confidence.

To be fair, Phil is a little scattered as well with the various things he throws at you. I think he's a lot clearer in his goals and thinking though.

[K_ick_God]

the defense is very suspect with kyle anchoring it. just not quick enough to help and recover. would rather see someone else be the backup 5. let me add..someone not french and fat.

I think we should look to move that guy. Should be possible to throw him into the right deal. The triangle prism can bend light but didn't turn trash into treasure.

[K_ick_God]

[Tweet]https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/719363939939684352[/Tweet]

Lots of And-1's here. This board values hard work and dedication in a way that is very ... good and smart.

Jerian seems like he can get there. You can't teach height. Think of how many midgets fizzled. Damon Stoudemire comes to mind. I think Isaiah T the 2nd will not have a great career. Too little and not that talented.

Jerian is not an elite talent but he's got a lot of nice attributes -- if he's reasonably smart, I think he can be a quality point who you don't have to break the bank for. Ideally, you shouldn't break the bank on your PG.

[will34]

[Tweet]https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/719363939939684352[/Tweet]

Lots of And-1's here. This board values hard work and dedication in a way that is very ... good and smart.

Jerian seems like he can get there. You can't teach height. Think of how many midgets fizzled. Damon Stoudemire comes to mind. I think Isaiah T the 2nd will not have a great career. Too little and not that talented.

Jerian is not an elite talent but he's got a lot of nice attributes -- if he's reasonably smart, I think he can be a quality point who you don't have to break the bank for. Ideally, you shouldn't break the bank on your PG.

Nothing more I can ask out of a player than one who will put the work in to get the most out of himself.

[Dantares]

Guys, I've been pretty optimistic about Grant on the whole and always thought he would turn the corner. I'm glad he's doing well now.

That doesn't mean he really deserved to be starting or anything early on this season. He was absolutely terrible to start the year. He had no jumper, couldn't finish, took forever to make decisions, and was getting bumped off his drive lanes constantly. He didn't really deserve to be out there.

Him playing well now is a testament to his work ethic, but it isn't evidence of how he would have played all season. Especially since this is all coming in April, aka "The Shved Zone".

I'm excited for what he's showing though, and I can't wait to see him come in next year with some experience under his belt and a further improved jumper.

agreed. let's not re-write history. Grant was awful to start the year and I worried about his confidence because other teams were disrespecting him by leaving him open and he would play so scared. His game didn't pick up until he started shooting better. but I do think we should have started giving him bigger minutes 10 games earlier when everyone knew we weren't going to make the playoffs. we were still giving him inconsistent minutes when we were mathematically elminiated. if Calderon doesn't get hurt I'm not even sure grant would have had this nice run right now.

[vincccent]

Grant is definitely better at playing off the ball now than he was in the beginning of the season, but he still has some major shortcomings, as is to be expected with a rookie pg. His major handicap in the beginning of the season when he did play was that he couldn't shoot and he turned the ball over.

He definitely still does take bad shots, but he's a young player. Now that his shooting and confidence have improved, he'll start getting more burn. Now if only the dinosaurs in charge would realize this team is better running the pnr, having a free flowing offense, and letting a quick guard create for our 3 best scorers, than maybe things would be better.

The triangle is fine in some spots, and both Melo and Lopez should be posted up when they have a mismatch. Both are reliable post scorers. But we can't base our offense around that. It just doesn't work. It hasn't worked for us this season, nor has it for any other team.

KP and Melo will be much better suited to play in a flowing offense where they can catch and shoot more, or catch, fake, and drive, not one where they are posted up and asked to dance around their defender each time. That is predictable, slow and inefficient basketball.

Amen.

[god shammgod]

[Tweet]https://twitter.com/ChinaJoeFlynn/status/719655180132716544[/Tweet]

god damn do you suck aaron

[Jalen Bluntson]

New York’s defense has surrendered just over 100 points per 100 possessions with Grant and Galloway on the court, according to NBA.com; a metric that’d rank third-best in the league. By contrast, the Knicks allowed more than 108 points per 100 plays when Calderon and Afflalo played together, a number that’d rank the club’s defense second-worst in the entire NBA. (Despite these numbers, Afflalo and Calderon inexplicably shared the court almost 49% of the time this season, whereas Grant and Galloway only played together about 29% of the time.)

Grant should have been playing for MONTHS. Maybe not starting when we were 22-22. But this kid should have seen much more PT.

HORRIBLE season of coaching. Squandered a playoff run in full tank ode fashion with no pick. Just a surreal season.

Batum Batum Batum Batum Batum. That's all I want this summer. Afflalo opts out and we sign Batum. D Will stays. Thibs or Walton and call it a day. Phil redeemed 100%.

I agree what if we dont get Batum whats the plan b?

I don't have a plan B. LOL I think we need to target SG. The PG selection is just an overpay waiting to happen....which will be a waste when the 2017 PG FA and draft is much better.