Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders

Moderators: Clav, Domejandro, ken6199, bisme37, Dirk, KingDavid, cupcakesnake, bwgood77, zimpy27, infinite11285

User avatar
MikeM
General Manager
Posts: 9,051
And1: 9,909
Joined: Aug 10, 2006

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#41 » by MikeM » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:13 pm

If Hinkie wasn't an analytics guy he would be looked at a lot differently.

"Well he knows numbers, he must be smart. Just wait."

I mean, all the guy talks about is stocks and investments but does he realize he has taken the stocks he invested in on the 76ers and run them into the ground? You pick Noel and then put him in the worst situation possible. Guess what, if you want to trade him you get half of what he's worth. You pick Okafor and let him try to get numbers with the hardest shots imaginable. Yup, that will increase his value.

He talks about building a team based on 3 point shooting, pace and defence and he picks Okafor, a player who belongs in the mid 90s who fits none of that criteria, and on top of that completely negates the value of Noel.

There was no plan except to keep firing shots at the top of the draft.
Arp590
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,332
And1: 2,989
Joined: Jul 02, 2009
 

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#42 » by Arp590 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:30 pm

Snotbubbles wrote:
Arp590 wrote:
azwfan wrote:It hasn't worked out great... unless his master plan was to compile a bunch of assets and then get canned. He was able to get the assets, he wasn't able to keep his job. I can't believe getting fired was part of his master plan.

Similar to running a company. You can build the best product in the world, but if you can't sell it before your capital runs out... you're out of a job. Had he gotten more wins this year (the NBA's currency) and kept his job... then I would say he did a great job.

Getting fired wasn't part of his plan, hence why the person quoted mentioned people are too stupid to comprehend his plan... therefore he was fired.


He resigned. Maybe he didn't understand his own plan.

Forced resignation is a little different... :roll:
Nebula1
RealGM
Posts: 27,829
And1: 1,571
Joined: Aug 06, 2005
Location: Underground King
 

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#43 » by Nebula1 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:31 pm

Minnesota did it better.
jbk1234
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 59,436
And1: 36,423
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
 

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#44 » by jbk1234 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:35 pm

Nebula1 wrote:Minnesota did it better.


Minnesota had a better trade chip (I actually think Hinkie killed his trades) and better lottery luck - but that's the problem with full on tanking. The best you get is a one in four shot at the top pick. You're not even guaranteed a top 3 pick.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
Nebula1
RealGM
Posts: 27,829
And1: 1,571
Joined: Aug 06, 2005
Location: Underground King
 

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#45 » by Nebula1 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:44 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Nebula1 wrote:Minnesota did it better.


Minnesota had a better trade chip (I actually think Hinkie killed his trades) and better lottery luck - but that's the problem with full on tanking. The best you get is a one in four shot at the top pick. You're not even guaranteed a top 3 pick.



Which is why I agree with the OP. Hinkie went too far in shedding wins and who knows if we even see Embiid on the floor. Sure, assets have been accumulated but at too much expense and I doubt they're as good as Minnesota in the near future.

I think Milwaukee is another young team that's done a better job getting a roster in order for long term growth. Would you rather have Giannis or Okafor?
User avatar
heatwillbeback
RealGM
Posts: 18,825
And1: 13,887
Joined: Jul 26, 2003
     

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#46 » by heatwillbeback » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:48 pm

Nobody writes something like this and is "shocked" and "devastated" when its leaked to the media. He wrote this for the media.

Its an absolutely ridiculous read. A resignation letter is simple- thanks, bye. Not this drawn out woe is me manifesto.
Image
vaff87
RealGM
Posts: 24,214
And1: 71,148
Joined: Oct 22, 2003
         

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#47 » by vaff87 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:54 pm

Snotbubbles wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
Snotbubbles wrote:
Magic Johnson #1 pick won titles in 86-87 & 87-88
Hakeem Olajuwon #1 pick won titles in 93-94 & 94-95
Mark Aguirre #1 pick won titles in 88-89 & 89-90

So by my count 17 of the past 30 NBA championships have been won with a #1 pick making a major contribution to the team. If you bump that to top 3 pick it becomes something like 24 out of 30. So yeah, drafting in the top 3 is pretty significant.


How many of those 24 were won by top three draft picks who were still on the same team that drafted them?


In the last 30 years. 22 of 30.

Duncan (#1 overall) won 5
Wade (#3 overall) won 3
Jordan (#3 overall) won 6
Hakeem (#1 overall) won 2
Isaiah (#2 overall) won 2
Magic (#1 overall) won 2
McHale (#2 overall) won 2


Wait, in what draft was Dwyane Wade 3rd overall?

You're wrong by two spots.
Easymoney
Junior
Posts: 365
And1: 171
Joined: Jun 11, 2015
 

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#48 » by Easymoney » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:08 pm

Given the Kings deal Hinkie pulled off, we'll probably be drafting in the lottery regardless of our record until 2019. Think about that.

Could things have gone better? You're damn right. We could have Towns in addition to all of the assets we've already accumulated, but we weren't lucky. I'm certainly satisfied with Okafor as a consolation prize, but that's another discussion.

There is no way any objective party can look at our upcoming draft picks, current players, and cap space and think the Sixers are in a bad position moving forward. 14,15, and 16 will not matter at all if the Sixers are contending by 2019.
User avatar
codydaze
Forum Mod - Kings
Forum Mod - Kings
Posts: 6,522
And1: 5,055
Joined: Jul 06, 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA
     

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#49 » by codydaze » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:10 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
Snotbubbles wrote:
Magic Johnson #1 pick won titles in 86-87 & 87-88
Hakeem Olajuwon #1 pick won titles in 93-94 & 94-95
Mark Aguirre #1 pick won titles in 88-89 & 89-90

So by my count 17 of the past 30 NBA championships have been won with a #1 pick making a major contribution to the team. If you bump that to top 3 pick it becomes something like 24 out of 30. So yeah, drafting in the top 3 is pretty significant.


How many of those 24 were won by top three draft picks who were still on the same team that drafted them?


He's going back 40 years in the draft and applying it to the last 30 years of Championships. He's also conflating single players winning multiple Championships with the overall percentage of finding those players in any given draft. If only three have done it over the last 30 years of drafts, then 27 did not. Moreover, only two players drafted No. 1 overall in the last 15 years have won championships and Bogut did it from the bench last year.


Also, you have to factor in sample size when you look at things like this. There have only been 30 #1 picks in the last 30 years but there have 90 top 3 picks and 210 top 7 picks. Even inflating the number from 30-90 drastically increases the odds that one of those guys are gonna get a title at some point.
jbk1234
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 59,436
And1: 36,423
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
 

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#50 » by jbk1234 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:14 pm

heatwillbeback wrote:Nobody writes something like this and is "shocked" and "devastated" when its leaked to the media. He wrote this for the media.

Its an absolutely ridiculous read. A resignation letter is simple- thanks, bye. Not this drawn out woe is me manifesto.


Frankly, it reads like like someone who is trying to plant the seeds for a mutiny. There have been rumors that Harris might want to sell. I think he's fishing for a minority owner who might want to be majority owner.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
User avatar
Capn'O
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 90,704
And1: 110,870
Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Location: Bone Goal
 

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#51 » by Capn'O » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:27 pm

MikeM wrote:If Hinkie wasn't an analytics guy he would be looked at a lot differently.

"Well he knows numbers, he must be smart. Just wait."

I mean, all the guy talks about is stocks and investments but does he realize he has taken the stocks he invested in on the 76ers and run them into the ground? You pick Noel and then put him in the worst situation possible. Guess what, if you want to trade him you get half of what he's worth. You pick Okafor and let him try to get numbers with the hardest shots imaginable. Yup, that will increase his value.

He talks about building a team based on 3 point shooting, pace and defence and he picks Okafor, a player who belongs in the mid 90s who fits none of that criteria, and on top of that completely negates the value of Noel.

There was no plan except to keep firing shots at the top of the draft.


What? You didn't see the relevance of the plight of the moa to a resignation letter about building a basketball team?
BAF Clippers:
UNDER CONSTRUCTION - PLEASE INQUIRE WITHIN

:beer:
nodeal
Rookie
Posts: 1,136
And1: 216
Joined: Dec 16, 2009

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#52 » by nodeal » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:35 pm

Hinkies 3rd biggest mistake was resigning. You need to be ruthless to succeed in this business. I wouldve let jerry bring in Bryan as co-commish relegating me to the analytics team. Then as they destroy the team ill be there to put it back together. If they succeed ill be there to take the credit because it was my work that got us into this position. I think hinkie just really wanted to write that letter.
User avatar
EvanZ
RealGM
Posts: 15,009
And1: 4,223
Joined: Apr 06, 2011

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#53 » by EvanZ » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:38 pm

PDX MM wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:In the last thirty years, three No. 1 picks have won championships by my count - Shaq, Duncan and LBJ



You forgot about Andrew Bogut for the past 30 years part.

I am sure I am missing some but going back to the late 50's these are the #1 picks that I know won championships:

Hakkem Olajuwon
Elgin Baylor
Oscar Robertson
Kareem
Bill Walton
James Worthy
David Robinson
Magic

So yeah winning it all as a #1 pick isn't all that common and I will admit this does surprise me some.


I mean, Shaq, Duncan, and LBJ won a bunch of titles. Pretty sure the odds of a championship team having a #1 pick are disproportionately favorable.

KAT might win a bunch of championships. And if AD ever gets to the right team...

But the odds of even a lottery favorite getting a #1 pick aren't that great. It's only about 25%. That means you have to suck for at least 3 seasons to really give yourself a good chance of getting one. And by the time you do that, your owner thinks you can't build a winner, which by definition you were not trying to do. If ever there were a Catch 22...
youOK
Pro Prospect
Posts: 845
And1: 573
Joined: Jan 14, 2014
   

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#54 » by youOK » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:06 am

Easymoney wrote:Given the Kings deal Hinkie pulled off, we'll probably be drafting in the lottery regardless of our record until 2019. Think about that.

Could things have gone better? You're damn right. We could have Towns in addition to all of the assets we've already accumulated, but we weren't lucky. I'm certainly satisfied with Okafor as a consolation prize, but that's another discussion.

There is no way any objective party can look at our upcoming draft picks, current players, and cap space and think the Sixers are in a bad position moving forward. 14,15, and 16 will not matter at all if the Sixers are contending by 2019.


I like a lot of the trades he made but I don't know if I really see the scenario where the sixers are contending by 2019. Maybe they can be where the Bucks are.
Easymoney
Junior
Posts: 365
And1: 171
Joined: Jun 11, 2015
 

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#55 » by Easymoney » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:33 am

amk233 wrote:
Easymoney wrote:Given the Kings deal Hinkie pulled off, we'll probably be drafting in the lottery regardless of our record until 2019. Think about that.

Could things have gone better? You're damn right. We could have Towns in addition to all of the assets we've already accumulated, but we weren't lucky. I'm certainly satisfied with Okafor as a consolation prize, but that's another discussion.

There is no way any objective party can look at our upcoming draft picks, current players, and cap space and think the Sixers are in a bad position moving forward. 14,15, and 16 will not matter at all if the Sixers are contending by 2019.


I like a lot of the trades he made but I don't know if I really see the scenario where the sixers are contending by 2019. Maybe they can be where the Bucks are.


If we're only winning 33 games by 2019 it will be because something went terribly wrong with Bryan Colangelo. I see us winning that many games as early as next year.
User avatar
basketball royalty
RealGM
Posts: 17,087
And1: 2,968
Joined: Dec 10, 2004
Location: jurassic park

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#56 » by basketball royalty » Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:31 am

Easymoney wrote:Given the Kings deal Hinkie pulled off, we'll probably be drafting in the lottery regardless of our record until 2019. Think about that.

Could things have gone better? You're damn right. We could have Towns in addition to all of the assets we've already accumulated, but we weren't lucky. I'm certainly satisfied with Okafor as a consolation prize, but that's another discussion.

There is no way any objective party can look at our upcoming draft picks, current players, and cap space and think the Sixers are in a bad position moving forward. 14,15, and 16 will not matter at all if the Sixers are contending by 2019.


Sure, but would Hinkie have made that move to contention? Or would he keep buying lotto tickets hoping for the big fish?



Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums
Image
props to Turbozone for the sig
mtron929
Head Coach
Posts: 6,325
And1: 5,295
Joined: Jan 01, 2014

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#57 » by mtron929 » Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:34 am

It seems like majority of people who criticize Hinkie have not taken a statistics class. You should understand what the words "expectation value" means before going off on his strategy.
Shock Defeat
RealGM
Posts: 10,767
And1: 18,894
Joined: Aug 30, 2012
       

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#58 » by Shock Defeat » Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:45 am

If Philadelphia had a good scouting department their tanking strategy would've worked great. Unfortunately, high picks mean nothing when you pick busts.
GopherIt!
RealGM
Posts: 10,605
And1: 24,751
Joined: Oct 20, 2007
Location: bird watching
Contact:

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#59 » by GopherIt! » Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:48 am

I want to see Hinkie's letter to his diary.

Dear diary,

I quit my job yesterday. Slept in this morning. Found some decent tires cleaning out the garage. Traded them to my neighbor for a used snow blower. Felt like a good deal. It should come in handy in about 9 months. Assuming it works.
User avatar
basketball royalty
RealGM
Posts: 17,087
And1: 2,968
Joined: Dec 10, 2004
Location: jurassic park

Re: Hinkie's letter to Sixers shareholders 

Post#60 » by basketball royalty » Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:48 am

They should make a movie about Hinkie and the Sixers. Not a Moneyball type but more a Major League type movie.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums
Image
props to Turbozone for the sig

Return to The General Board