Political Roundtable Part IX

[popper]

Wrong thread.

[nate33]

The former head of Britain’s Equalities and Human Rights Commission (EHRC), Trevor Phillips, the guy who coined the term "Islamophobia", just came out with a startling new report on Muslim integration and segregation in Britain, concluding that he “got almost everything wrong” on Muslim immigration.

“We estimated that the Muslim population of the UK would be approaching 2 [million] by 2020. We underestimated by nearly a million. We predicted that the most lethal threat to Muslims would come from racial attacks and social exclusion. We completely failed to foresee the urban conflicts of 2001 that ravaged our northern cities. And of course we didn’t dream of 9/11 and the atrocities in Madrid, Paris, Istanbul, Brussels and London.”

“For a long time, I too thought that Europe’s Muslims would become like previous waves of migrants, gradually abandoning their ancestral ways, wearing their religious and cultural baggage lightly, and gradually blending into Britain’s diverse identity landscape. I should have known better.”

And Mr. Phillips even acknowledges that the mass sexual grooming and rape scandals that are plaguing heavily Muslim populated towns across Britain are because of Muslim – not ‘Asian’ – men. He writes: “The contempt for white girls among some Muslim men has been highlighted by the recent scandals in Rotherham, Oxford, Rochdale and other towns. But this merely reflects a deeply ingrained sexism that runs through Britain’s Muslim communities” – in a nod to those who have long protested this to be the case in the face of political, media, and even police cover ups.

Even left wing columnist Yasmin Alibhai-Brown told him: “[W]e [liberal Muslims] are a dying breed — in 10 years there will be very few of us left unless something really important is done.”

Phillips comments: “Some of my journalist friends imagine that, with time, the Muslims will grow out of it. They won’t.”

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/04/10/thought-europes-muslims-gradually-blend-britains-diverse-landscape-known-better/

It will happen here too if we're not very careful. We need to limit Muslim immigration and ensure that the ones that are permitted here are educated and have a high likelihood of embracing liberal values. If we just blindly let in refugees, there is no reason to expect that we will do any better at assimilating them. I don't want any Rotherham's in America. If it means unfairly excluding Muslims, so be it. It's the lesser of two evils.

[dckingsfan]

We just need to have a balanced approach to our immigration - most of Europe's immigration is from predominantly Muslim countries. If we have a balanced approach that I outlined before - we will be fine - if not, I have to agree with you nate (and the aforementioned author).

[nate33]

LOL. Suddenly, John McCain is becoming vigilant regarding security issues at the border. Me thinks this letter would never have been generated were it not for Donald J. Trump.

McCain demands military help on U.S. border
By Susan Ferrechio

Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John McCain is demanding the Department of Homeland Security request military help to combat drug trafficking and illegal immigration on the Mexican border.

In a letter to Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson, McCain, R-Ariz., called on him to immediately request Department of Defense support "so we can take full advantage of the department's air assets to secure the border and combat illicit drug trafficking."

McCain said Army drones are flying along the Mexican border, but none of the training missions are coordinated with DHS to help detect drug smuggling.

McCain said the Defense Department can participate in helping federal law enforcement stop drug trafficking "including but not limited to, aerial reconnaissance along the international border."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/mccain-demands-military-help-on-u.s.-border/article/2588345

[cammac]

The former head of Britain’s Equalities and Human Rights Commission (EHRC), Trevor Phillips, the guy who coined the term "Islamophobia", just came out with a startling new report on Muslim integration and segregation in Britain, concluding that he “got almost everything wrong” on Muslim immigration.

“We estimated that the Muslim population of the UK would be approaching 2 [million] by 2020. We underestimated by nearly a million. We predicted that the most lethal threat to Muslims would come from racial attacks and social exclusion. We completely failed to foresee the urban conflicts of 2001 that ravaged our northern cities. And of course we didn’t dream of 9/11 and the atrocities in Madrid, Paris, Istanbul, Brussels and London.”

“For a long time, I too thought that Europe’s Muslims would become like previous waves of migrants, gradually abandoning their ancestral ways, wearing their religious and cultural baggage lightly, and gradually blending into Britain’s diverse identity landscape. I should have known better.”

And Mr. Phillips even acknowledges that the mass sexual grooming and rape scandals that are plaguing heavily Muslim populated towns across Britain are because of Muslim – not ‘Asian’ – men. He writes: “The contempt for white girls among some Muslim men has been highlighted by the recent scandals in Rotherham, Oxford, Rochdale and other towns. But this merely reflects a deeply ingrained sexism that runs through Britain’s Muslim communities” – in a nod to those who have long protested this to be the case in the face of political, media, and even police cover ups.

Even left wing columnist Yasmin Alibhai-Brown told him: “[W]e [liberal Muslims] are a dying breed — in 10 years there will be very few of us left unless something really important is done.”

Phillips comments: “Some of my journalist friends imagine that, with time, the Muslims will grow out of it. They won’t.”

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/04/10/thought-europes-muslims-gradually-blend-britains-diverse-landscape-known-better/

It will happen here too if we're not very careful. We need to limit Muslim immigration and ensure that the ones that are permitted here are educated and have a high likelihood of embracing liberal values. If we just blindly let in refugees, there is no reason to expect that we will do any better at assimilating them. I don't want any Rotherham's in America. If it means unfairly excluding Muslims, so be it. It's the lesser of two evils.

In Europe the Muslim population has been marginalized in countries like France, Belgium And a lesser extent Britain. The USA has about 1% of its population which is Muslim and Canada has 2.5 to 3% . In Canada the Muslim population has integrated successfully economically but but socially obviously some divides but it is usually the 2nd generation that fully integrates in Canada. The religious leaders and the government have been co-operative in communicating any radicalized members. While in Europe the population has been separated and marginalized in suburban slums.

Canada & USA have had the benefit of having a ocean separating the Middle East and should be able to bring the people who are less likely to do violence. Yes terrorists can be let in and that isn't different than radicalized native Americans whether it is religious, white supremacy, gang violence, motorcycle gangs and basically crazed nut jobs that every society creates. But phobias about difference in human conditions go against the grain in a free society.

[dckingsfan]

Actually cammac, doesn't this make a point of not bringing in a large influx of any group at one time. Rather a slow steady approach to various ethnic groups.

[nate33]

In Europe the Muslim population has been marginalized in countries like France, Belgium And a lesser extent Britain. The USA has about 1% of its population which is Muslim and Canada has 2.5 to 3% . In Canada the Muslim population has integrated successfully economically but but socially obviously some divides but it is usually the 2nd generation that fully integrates in Canada. The religious leaders and the government have been co-operative in communicating any radicalized members. While in Europe the population has been separated and marginalized in suburban slums.

Canada & USA have had the benefit of having a ocean separating the Middle East and should be able to bring the people who are less likely to do violence. Yes terrorists can be let in and that isn't different than radicalized native Americans whether it is religious, white supremacy, gang violence, motorcycle gangs and basically crazed nut jobs that every society creates. But phobias about difference in human conditions go against the grain in a free society.

The level of Muslim "integration" is directly proportional to the percentage of Muslims in the country. If you have a very small percentage, they will integrate fine. If you have a moderate percentage, they will stir trouble, agitate for self rule in Sharia Law ghettos, and foment civil unrest. In large percentages, you lose all semblance of Western civilization. Canada hasn't had too much trouble because the percentages are still small. You are deluding yourself if you think there is some fundamental reason why Canada will integrate Muslims better than Belgium or Britain. Canada's Muslim population is about to hit 2%. Which means they're about to enter Stage 2.

As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:

United States -- Muslim 0.6%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1.8%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs.

This is happening in:

Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:

France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris , we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:

Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 15%

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:

Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:

Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and ***ya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:

Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:

Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 100%

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.

http://www.examiner.com/article/as-muslim-population-grows-what-can-happen-to-a-society

We need to get out of this utopian mindset where everyone is the same and has the same values. It's simply not the case. Islam isn't just a religion. It's a political philosophy that wants to expand. Saying this is not racism. It's the same as rejecting Nazism or Communism. When people want to overthrow your way of life, you don't let them among you. How many times do we need to see this play out before we take off the rose-colored glasses? EVERY country in the world with a large percentage of Muslims is not a place where most Americans would want to live.

I don't want America to become more like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia or Syria. I don't feel any guilt whatsoever for saying this. Therefore, I don't want a lot of people that share the philosophies of Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and Syria to come here.

[TGW]

Fear is a powerful tool when brainwashing the sheep.

[cammac]

In Europe the Muslim population has been marginalized in countries like France, Belgium And a lesser extent Britain. The USA has about 1% of its population which is Muslim and Canada has 2.5 to 3% . In Canada the Muslim population has integrated successfully economically but but socially obviously some divides but it is usually the 2nd generation that fully integrates in Canada. The religious leaders and the government have been co-operative in communicating any radicalized members. While in Europe the population has been separated and marginalized in suburban slums.

Canada & USA have had the benefit of having a ocean separating the Middle East and should be able to bring the people who are less likely to do violence. Yes terrorists can be let in and that isn't different than radicalized native Americans whether it is religious, white supremacy, gang violence, motorcycle gangs and basically crazed nut jobs that every society creates. But phobias about difference in human conditions go against the grain in a free society.

The level of Muslim "integration" is directly proportional to the percentage of Muslims in the country. If you have a very small percentage, they will integrate fine. If you have a moderate percentage, they will stir trouble, agitate for self rule in Sharia Law ghettos, and foment civil unrest. In large percentages, you lose all semblance of Western civilization. Canada hasn't had too much trouble because the percentages are still small. You are deluding yourself if you think there is some fundamental reason why Canada will integrate Muslims better than Belgium or Britain. Canada's Muslim population is about to hit 2%. Which means they're about to enter Stage 2.

As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:

United States -- Muslim 0.6%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1.8%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs.

This is happening in:

Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:

France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris , we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:

Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 15%

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:

Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:

Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and ***ya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:

Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:

Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 100%

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.

http://www.examiner.com/article/as-muslim-population-grows-what-can-happen-to-a-society

We need to get out of this utopian mindset where everyone is the same and has the same values. It's simply not the case. Islam isn't just a religion. It's a political philosophy that wants to expand. Saying this is not racism. It's the same as rejecting Nazism or Communism. When people want to overthrow your way of life, you don't let them among you. How many times do we need to see this play out before we take off the rose-colored glasses? EVERY country in the world with a large percentage of Muslims is not a place where most Americans would want to live.

I don't want America to become more like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia or Syria. I don't feel any guilt whatsoever for saying this. Therefore, I don't want a lot of people that share the philosophies of Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and Syria to come here.

Dear Nate
I suspect many countries will have Muslim minorities that live in peace in the general populous and blend into a harmonious society. BTW the Muslim minorities in both China and Russia have been discriminated and abused under the governments as well as any other ethnic minority. If I was an American I think I would worry more about "Born Again Christians" imposing there will on the populous than Muslims.

I have visited Muslim nations such as Malaysia & Indonesia and while predominantly Muslim are relatively open societies. Pointing out African nations who are Muslim and have problems without looking at the continent as a whole where strife is rampant in most countries no matter what religion.

[dckingsfan]

Fear is a powerful tool when brainwashing the sheep.

I really think that global warming is a real problem. If you think that using fear to get people to more on the issue is wrong - well I don't know what to say.

[AFM]

[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwxxMQtuBUo[/YouTube]


[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k88WbmdRu2o[/YouTube]

[dckingsfan]

Well, in the news - lots of griping about how Dodd-Frank is having unintended consequences. Basically another poor piece of legislation - sigh.

1) Big Banks are getting bigger
The legislation has all but stopped smaller banks from forming due to compliance issues with D-F

2) MetLife's victory
Reduces any kind of enforcement for those non-bank corporations that are entrenched in providing investment securities that are intertwined with the banks - so basically the lack of foresight in the legislation process has hamstrung federal regulators

3) Many big banks are basically failing their living wills
And there isn't a good way forward on this without also hurting the economy

[dobrojim]

Fear is a powerful tool when brainwashing the sheep.

That's what I've been saying for a long time. Fear results in the diminution or even
outright elimination of rational thought. If you want someone to do the otherwise
unthinkable, make them afraid first.

[nate33]

Fear is a powerful tool when brainwashing the sheep.

That's what I've been saying for a long time. Fear results in the diminution or even
outright elimination of rational thought. If you want someone to do the otherwise
unthinkable, make them afraid first.

Name me a single country that is 20% or more Muslim that has the type of liberties and equality under the law that we have in the West. If you can't name a single one, what makes you so smugly sure that my stance is based on "fear" rather than rational thought?

[dckingsfan]

Fear is a powerful tool when brainwashing the sheep.

That's what I've been saying for a long time. Fear results in the diminution or even outright elimination of rational thought. If you want someone to do the otherwise unthinkable, make them afraid first.

Name me a single country that is 20% or more Muslim that has the type of liberties and equality under the law that we have in the West. If you can't name a single one, what makes you so smugly sure that my stance is based on "fear" rather than rational thought.

I would add - both sides do this. They try to find the issue de jour and then throw fear at their base.

Global warming
Immigration
Entitlement Reform
Gay Rights

I could go on and on

[dobrojim]

Fear is a powerful tool when brainwashing the sheep.

That's what I've been saying for a long time. Fear results in the diminution or even
outright elimination of rational thought. If you want someone to do the otherwise
unthinkable, make them afraid first.

Name me a single country that is 20% or more Muslim that has the type of liberties and equality under the law that we have in the West. If you can't name a single one, what makes you so smugly sure that my stance is based on "fear" rather than rational thought.

I was speaking generically (and only responding to TGW's post).
One person's fear (mongering) is another person's dire and well founded
warning. I'll let others characterize a given response and stand ready to justify
their characterization.

[popper]

Isn't fear an essential survival instinct in many cases? Fear of a physical threat, and the defensive action to respond, can be and often is, completely rational. Fear that an able-bodied, single, healthy male, who's getting kicked off food stamps is a different kind of fear. He fears having to fend for himself rather than living off the largess of those that pay income taxes. Public school teachers fear having to compete with charter schools. Politicians fear a balanced budget where little money is left to buy votes, etc.

[nate33]

77% (and probably more) of rapes in Sweden are committed by the 2% Muslim male population.



Link

The total Muslim population in Sweden is estimated at 4.4% (2013 figures). Out of that 4.4% and in deducting the women and children, we can roughly guesstimate that around 2% are male. The foreign rape figures at 77.6% Muslim has been anonymously confirmed by Swedish polish in a phone conversation. The actual figure could be higher. These percentages do not include Muslims with Swedish citizenship contained within rapes in the figures categorized under “Swedish nationals”.

[AFM]

That's a whole lotta rapin', if I do say so myself.

[AFM]

Anyway nate, stop being such a bigot. The pro-gay, pro-women Left will defend the misogynistic, homophobic hate group that is Islam until their very last breath. It's amazing what you can get away with if you label your hate filled views as "part of your religion". That gets you carte blanche in this country.

I'm Persian so I know a bit about how Islam can completely destroy a society. Got no interest in visiting. Don't want to be executed by stoning over something silly


PS. Did you know Muslims have very strict rules over the size of the stones used in a stoning execution? You see, small pebbles don't do enough damage. But, if the stones are too big, they'll die too quickly. Just a fun tidbit from your local peaceful religion Allahu akbar!