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Trade Idea Thread 15-16

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Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#821 » by Kings2013 » Tue Apr 5, 2016 1:58 pm

realEAST wrote:Player development has been terrible, that I can agree.
The way I see it, Kings want to upgrade squad and be competitive sooner rather than later, and yet are dominantly stacked at one, center, position, where they have their two best players and talents. And at the same time have holes at every other position, except maybe Rudy, but he is not suited to be second option and team starting him, Cousins and Stein has problems with spacing.
Rather "invest" WCS as to improve at least one other position, than duplicate one position and underscore others. (remember, kings still have Kosta as backup C, a decent one too, but a return on him wouldn't be close to that on Stein)
Moving him for forward is due to that position being least stacked where kings pick would land (Ellenson wouldn't be good fit too), and due to lack of that type of players in FA.

Speaking frankly, I think it is time to move Boogie, as much as I love him, and than with proper coaching and drafting build great generation in time. But then there is Vivek.


The way I see it the Kings only have a 'hole' at SG, and Curry might even get a look at that

Rudy/Omri are a above average SF tandem (hence no Porter)
Collison is solid, and fit with the starters last year
WCS was drafted to compliment Cousins

Need another coach to see what we have. Team quit, didn't mesh with Karl
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Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#822 » by KF10 » Tue Apr 5, 2016 6:45 pm

I rather keep WCS than trading him for Porter.
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Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#823 » by Jkam31 » Tue Apr 5, 2016 9:05 pm

Otto Porter don't make me laugh
If WCS is traded than Jimmy Butler and DMC will be our 1 2 punch next year


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Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#824 » by skywalker33 » Fri Apr 8, 2016 4:57 am

Jkam31 wrote:Otto Porter don't make me laugh
If WCS is traded than Jimmy Butler and DMC will be our 1 2 punch next year


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Not sure you have enough assets to get Butler w/o including DMC so I doubt you'll ever see that 1 2 punch.
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Exactly as I've been saying all along !!
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Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#825 » by realEAST » Fri Apr 8, 2016 1:36 pm

I get you think they WCS and Cousins are good together, and that he was drafted to complement him. Not the first, nor the worst mistake by Kings ownership. Thy just don't look good to me on offense together, and WCS defensive part could be taken on by some stretch 4 (guarding perimeter, being help defender)
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Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#826 » by SacKingZZZ » Fri Apr 8, 2016 8:08 pm

Jkam31 wrote:Otto Porter don't make me laugh
If WCS is traded than Jimmy Butler and DMC will be our 1 2 punch next year


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I like Willie, but lets not get ahead of ourselves here, Willie projects as a solid role player maybe a Tyson Chandler type, not a star.

Porter and Willie probably have similar value at this point but it's lateral in the sense that the Kings would rather add someone like Porter to the defense rather than strip an important defensive piece in the process.
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Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#827 » by SacKingZZZ » Fri Apr 8, 2016 8:10 pm

realEAST wrote:I get you think they WCS and Cousins are good together, and that he was drafted to complement him. Not the first, nor the worst mistake by Kings ownership. Thy just don't look good to me on offense together, and WCS defensive part could be taken on by some stretch 4 (guarding perimeter, being help defender)



I still see Willie being perfect in that 3rd big role since he can play with Cuz or back him up. He's the rare type of big that could average starters minutes off the bench in a 3 big rotation. Willie has started to show a little bit of that jumper. I want to see more spot shooting/floor spacing from him.
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Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#828 » by realEAST » Fri Apr 8, 2016 8:40 pm

SacKingZZZ wrote:
realEAST wrote:I get you think they WCS and Cousins are good together, and that he was drafted to complement him. Not the first, nor the worst mistake by Kings ownership. Thy just don't look good to me on offense together, and WCS defensive part could be taken on by some stretch 4 (guarding perimeter, being help defender)



I still see Willie being perfect in that 3rd big role since he can play with Cuz or back him up. He's the rare type of big that could average starters minutes off the bench in a 3 big rotation. Willie has started to show a little bit of that jumper. I want to see more spot shooting/floor spacing from him.


If he could develop consistent mid range game he'd be very nice fit and very good starter. I just dont see it, and dont share the same high valuation.
Also, still think Mudiay would've been the best pick, with Turner and Winslow also there - you'd have legit starter one one of critical positions (it sounds like sour grapes but just think of mudiay-murray combo and Cousins for long run, with possibly good forward through FA to play along Gay and Cousins for now)
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Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#829 » by KF10 » Fri Apr 8, 2016 10:19 pm

Willie has been showing off his mid range jumper for a while now. The guy had signs of a jumper in college but he was instructed not to let it fly by coach Cal but luckily Willie hasn't forgot about it. I think this will be paid in massive dividends for the Kings if they allow Willie to work on his jumper from now until the start of next season. This guy can totally shattered the lazy comparisons of DeAndre/Chandler i.e. in regards to only effective in the paint, offensively. The moment when he develops a reliable jumper at 18 ft, it will be a sight for sore eyes.
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Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#830 » by bleeds_purple » Fri Apr 8, 2016 10:58 pm

KF10 wrote:Willie has been showing off his mid range jumper for a while now. The guy had signs of a jumper in college but he was instructed not to let it fly by coach Cal but luckily Willie hasn't forgot about it. I think this will be paid in massive dividends for the Kings if they allow Willie to work on his jumper from now until the start of next season. This guy can totally shattered the lazy comparisons of DeAndre/Chandler i.e. in regards to only effective in the paint, offensively. The moment when he develops a reliable jumper at 18 ft, it will be a sight for sore eyes.


His jumper is better than Ibaka's was when he was a rookie and look at him now. But honestly all WCS needs to do is high the weights this offseason and he will break out majorly. He gets pushed around all too often yet is still effective. If he brings his strength to even mediocre levels he's going to be a force.

Its on the franchise to put him with the right people and get him on a solid program.
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Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#831 » by KF10 » Fri Apr 8, 2016 11:45 pm

bleeds_purple wrote:
KF10 wrote:Willie has been showing off his mid range jumper for a while now. The guy had signs of a jumper in college but he was instructed not to let it fly by coach Cal but luckily Willie hasn't forgot about it. I think this will be paid in massive dividends for the Kings if they allow Willie to work on his jumper from now until the start of next season. This guy can totally shattered the lazy comparisons of DeAndre/Chandler i.e. in regards to only effective in the paint, offensively. The moment when he develops a reliable jumper at 18 ft, it will be a sight for sore eyes.


His jumper is better than Ibaka's was when he was a rookie and look at him now. But honestly all WCS needs to do is high the weights this offseason and he will break out majorly. He gets pushed around all too often yet is still effective. If he brings his strength to even mediocre levels he's going to be a force.

Its on the franchise to put him with the right people and get him on a solid program.


Yep, he is bit on the skinny side for a PF/C at this point. Like you said, he needs to up the ante on his weight/strengthening regime in the off season. I just hope he doesn't lose too much mobility because of it though. The way he covers the space/distance on defense is pretty insane.
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Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#832 » by bleeds_purple » Sat Apr 9, 2016 12:36 am

KF10 wrote:Yep, he is bit on the skinny side for a PF/C at this point. Like you said, he needs to up the ante on his weight/strengthening regime in the off season. I just hope he doesn't lose too much mobility because of it though. The way he covers the space/distance on defense is pretty insane.


I'd expect lower body muscle to increase foot speed. That being said, yea, I think if he added a ton of overall weight it might slow him down. That's why you gotta have the professionals map out a plan.
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Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#833 » by gom » Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:55 pm

realEAST wrote:One more WCS idea, trading with Wizards: Otto Porter for Cauley Stein

Kings get two way forward for future; draft Hield; sign T. Johnson and M. Williams and there it is


Hi. If you mean Tyler Johnson, you should take into consideration that Miami has early bird rights and he is protected by the Gilbert Arenas provision, meaning Miami can sign him over the cap and can offer more to him than any other team (larger raises). I think Miami may entertain trades since we have so many good players in our backcourt, but TJ is a fan favorites, so we would have to see some value.

Also, WCS has much more value than Otto Porter.
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Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#834 » by realEAST » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:14 pm

gom wrote:
realEAST wrote:One more WCS idea, trading with Wizards: Otto Porter for Cauley Stein

Kings get two way forward for future; draft Hield; sign T. Johnson and M. Williams and there it is


Hi. If you mean Tyler Johnson, you should take into consideration that Miami has early bird rights and he is protected by the Gilbert Arenas provision, meaning Miami can sign him over the cap and can offer more to him than any other team (larger raises). I think Miami may entertain trades since we have so many good players in our backcourt, but TJ is a fan favorites, so we would have to see some value.

Also, WCS has much more value than Otto Porter.


Didn't know he is under Arenas - early bird doesn't mean much since he'll probably get over 6 mil.

I don't know why people ascribe so many value to WCS - I mean far from being a bad player, on contrary, nut he is defensive C, and not much more than that, until and if (and that's a big, big if for me). Meanwhile Porter is good two way wing, and there aren't many such in a league today - his numbers aren't too high because he is basically fifth option on offense, but has midrange game and consistent 3pt (40% after All Star break), while being way above average defender. Despite his low usage rate, he is between 50. and 75. (oscillating) in win shares. Also, younger than WCS, and already league proven.
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Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#835 » by gom » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:53 pm

realEAST wrote:
gom wrote:
realEAST wrote:One more WCS idea, trading with Wizards: Otto Porter for Cauley Stein

Kings get two way forward for future; draft Hield; sign T. Johnson and M. Williams and there it is


Hi. If you mean Tyler Johnson, you should take into consideration that Miami has early bird rights and he is protected by the Gilbert Arenas provision, meaning Miami can sign him over the cap and can offer more to him than any other team (larger raises). I think Miami may entertain trades since we have so many good players in our backcourt, but TJ is a fan favorites, so we would have to see some value.

Also, WCS has much more value than Otto Porter.


Didn't know he is under Arenas - early bird doesn't mean much since he'll probably get over 6 mil.

I don't know why people ascribe so many value to WCS - I mean far from being a bad player, on contrary, nut he is defensive C, and not much more than that, until and if (and that's a big, big if for me). Meanwhile Porter is good two way wing, and there aren't many such in a league today - his numbers aren't too high because he is basically fifth option on offense, but has midrange game and consistent 3pt (40% after All Star break), while being way above average defender. Despite his low usage rate, he is between 50. and 75. (oscillating) in win shares. Also, younger than WCS, and already league proven.


4/27.6M if he signs directly with the Heat. If another team offers more (after the first two years the Arenas provision does not limit salaries), the Heat can match. What's essential, though, is that it is *after* cap space is used, which is really important to us.

You can learn more here.

http://heathoops.com/2015/02/tyler-johnson-is-very-much-a-part-of-miami-heats-future/

It's clear that you haven't seen WCS play enough. A lot of people discount his effect. FiveThirtyEight.Com just published a video of how poorly he executes PnR. I think everyone expects much more from him in the future. He's not a great player now, but he has a relatively high ceiling and that's what Sacramento is counting on.

I was also going to mention that Marvin Williams is going to be *really* expensive, but I'm sure you know that.

Honestly, I've been trying to figure out what Sacramento can do for a while to solve their on-court issues. If you watch many Kings games, you see that one of their core problems is defense, especially perimeter defense. Luol Deng, who the Heat cannot afford to sign, would work wonders on the Kings. I would choose him over Marvin Williams.

Some of the trades I see suggested here (SAC/PHX: Cousins for Booker/Knight/PHX 2016/MIA 2017 for example) do not seem realistic. We all have a tendency to overvalue players when they play for our team. Booker is as untouchable on Phoenix as Cousins is on Sacramento (& that's saying something) to the fans.

What GMs consider untouchable is another matter. In the end I think Sacramento will probably trade Cousins because they'll feel they need a restart. It's a mistake I think. Rather than facing the hard challenges of working with the guy they'll want to press the reset button.

If they do this, they better get a MUCH better deal than they concocted last year.
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Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#836 » by codydaze » Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:15 pm

gom wrote:It's clear that you haven't seen WCS play enough. A lot of people discount his effect. FiveThirtyEight.Com just published a video of how poorly he executes PnR. I think everyone expects much more from him in the future. He's not a great player now, but he has a relatively high ceiling and that's what Sacramento is counting on.


Agreed. He has some way to go on his offensive development, but we have the luxury of pairing him with an offensively dominant big so he doesn't have to carry any kind of load at all on that end of the floor. Right now, we're just enjoying the put backs, lobs and occassional flashes of a post move from him. The thing we love is his versatility on the defensive end. He's going to need to bulk up to match up with the bigger guys down low but he's so quick and long that he can guard positions 1-5. He causes a lot of havoc on the defensive end, teams have to respect that he's down there so it's not a layup drill. He needs to become a better rebounder as well though. It looks like he's almost too confident with his athletic ability that he can outjump anyone for a rebound so he doesn't box out too much. Once he starts boxing out and being able to pull down 8-10 rebounds a night, he is going to fit beautifully next to Cousins.
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Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#837 » by realEAST » Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:15 pm

gom wrote:
realEAST wrote:
gom wrote:
Hi. If you mean Tyler Johnson, you should take into consideration that Miami has early bird rights and he is protected by the Gilbert Arenas provision, meaning Miami can sign him over the cap and can offer more to him than any other team (larger raises). I think Miami may entertain trades since we have so many good players in our backcourt, but TJ is a fan favorites, so we would have to see some value.

Also, WCS has much more value than Otto Porter.


Didn't know he is under Arenas - early bird doesn't mean much since he'll probably get over 6 mil.

I don't know why people ascribe so many value to WCS - I mean far from being a bad player, on contrary, nut he is defensive C, and not much more than that, until and if (and that's a big, big if for me). Meanwhile Porter is good two way wing, and there aren't many such in a league today - his numbers aren't too high because he is basically fifth option on offense, but has midrange game and consistent 3pt (40% after All Star break), while being way above average defender. Despite his low usage rate, he is between 50. and 75. (oscillating) in win shares. Also, younger than WCS, and already league proven.


4/27.6M if he signs directly with the Heat. If another team offers more (after the first two years the Arenas provision does not limit salaries), the Heat can match. What's essential, though, is that it is *after* cap space is used, which is really important to us.

You can learn more here.

http://heathoops.com/2015/02/tyler-johnson-is-very-much-a-part-of-miami-heats-future/

It's clear that you haven't seen WCS play enough. A lot of people discount his effect. FiveThirtyEight.Com just published a video of how poorly he executes PnR. I think everyone expects much more from him in the future. He's not a great player now, but he has a relatively high ceiling and that's what Sacramento is counting on.

I was also going to mention that Marvin Williams is going to be *really* expensive, but I'm sure you know that.

Honestly, I've been trying to figure out what Sacramento can do for a while to solve their on-court issues. If you watch many Kings games, you see that one of their core problems is defense, especially perimeter defense. Luol Deng, who the Heat cannot afford to sign, would work wonders on the Kings. I would choose him over Marvin Williams.

Some of the trades I see suggested here (SAC/PHX: Cousins for Booker/Knight/PHX 2016/MIA 2017 for example) do not seem realistic. We all have a tendency to overvalue players when they play for our team. Booker is as untouchable on Phoenix as Cousins is on Sacramento (& that's saying something) to the fans.

What GMs consider untouchable is another matter. In the end I think Sacramento will probably trade Cousins because they'll feel they need a restart. It's a mistake I think. Rather than facing the hard challenges of working with the guy they'll want to press the reset button.

If they do this, they better get a MUCH better deal than they concocted last year.


Actually, I watched King quite a bit earlier in the season, and just am not impressed with WCS, and those games I watched, he and Cousins didn't look well together. He didn't impress me on def end either, as much as he was lauded, he still needs work there, let alone his offensive game.
Perimeter D is obvious problem for Kings, I agree, but there were, and would say still are better solutions than Cauley Stein, considering what they can offer on other end already.
Deng would be interesting, but I am afraid he might decline abruptly next season; with Williams bigger issue would be his willingness to go to Kings I am afraid.
Cousins and Willie could do together if Sacramento switches to more conservative style of play, like Utah, but then they have Gay as bad fit for that kind of game, Collison who I don't think have quality to start, at least with current level of perimeter players, and hole at SG. You can adress something through draft (PG or SG), but I wouldn't count of FA too much (maybe to overpay significantly for C. Lee).
Considering trading Cousins, I was against it until recently, but just judging from previous experiences, rather sell him high now, than later (deadline, next offseason) for lot less. And since they are so high on WCS, start him at C, and with all the assets coming, you should be able to put together very talented and balanced lineup.
But again, I'd try hard this offseason to put together decent team around Cousins, even if it includes moving WCS (even better if he has crazy value, as it is suggested).
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Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#838 » by gom » Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:02 pm

Here is my Kings worksheet for 2016.

Image

The Kings should make minor adjustments instead of going nuts. I would *not* trade Cousins.

(1) Lock in Curry for a multiyear contract. MLE should do it.
(2) Sign a forward like Deng who can play defense.
(3) Guarantee Quincy Acy (a keeper).
(4) Uncertain about James Anderson. Any feedback?
(5) Do not guarantee Dukan. Moreland is also unnecessary.
(6) Draft a PG to play behind Seth Curry and Collison or a good SG prospect (pity there aren't any really where the Kings will pick). Hield would be a savior for this team.

I'd try to go with this lineup:

Seth Curry, Ben McLemore, Luol Deng, Rudy Gay (move to PF), DeMarcus Cousins.
Collison, Koufos, Belinelli, Acy, Casspi, and WCS can come off the bench.

That is already an improved team. If you want to trade for someone else, though, add pesky defenders. Someone like Beverly would really be good on this team. You could move Curry to SG perhaps.

Just my thoughts.
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Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#839 » by codydaze » Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:12 pm

gom wrote:Here is my Kings worksheet for 2016.

Image

The Kings should make minor adjustments instead of going nuts. I would *not* trade Cousins.

(1) Lock in Curry for a multiyear contract. MLE should do it.
(2) Sign a forward like Deng who can play defense.
(3) Guarantee Quincy Acy (a keeper).
(4) Uncertain about James Anderson. Any feedback?
(5) Do not guarantee Dukan. Moreland is also unnecessary.
(6) Draft a PG to play behind Seth Curry and Collison or a good SG prospect (pity there aren't any really where the Kings will pick). Hield would be a savior for this team.

I'd try to go with this lineup:

Seth Curry, Ben McLemore, Luol Deng, Rudy Gay (move to PF), DeMarcus Cousins.
Collison, Koufos, Belinelli, Acy, Casspi, and WCS can come off the bench.

That is already an improved team. If you want to trade for someone else, though, add pesky defenders. Someone like Beverly would really be good on this team. You could move Curry to SG perhaps.

Just my thoughts.


Get rid of him. That guy is terrible.
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Re: RE: Re: Trade Idea Thread 15-16 

Post#840 » by SactoKingsFan » Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:47 am

gom wrote:Here is my Kings worksheet for 2016.

Image

The Kings should make minor adjustments instead of going nuts. I would *not* trade Cousins.

(1) Lock in Curry for a multiyear contract. MLE should do it.
(2) Sign a forward like Deng who can play defense.
(3) Guarantee Quincy Acy (a keeper).
(4) Uncertain about James Anderson. Any feedback?
(5) Do not guarantee Dukan. Moreland is also unnecessary.
(6) Draft a PG to play behind Seth Curry and Collison or a good SG prospect (pity there aren't any really where the Kings will pick). Hield would be a savior for this team.


Definitely need to sign Curry to a multi year contract. He's already better than McLemore and seems to have much higher basketball IQ.

Not sure about signing Deng due to his age. Might be better off long term signing Fournier or Bazemore and trading Gay.

James Anderson is gone. He sucks.

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