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Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4)

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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#921 » by deeps6x » Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:46 am

Dr Positivity wrote:
deeps6x wrote:
Dr Positivity wrote:
True, on second thought there are probably players who rate high on my list who'd be available at 27. I just think having Thon Maker would be fun


It might be fun. Dreaming about the kids 'potential'. But how long do you sit on that potential? Is it just nice to have potential on the 905? Bruno style. 3-4 years of potential? (I'm sounding too sarcastic, I know)

I actually really respect your methods and am interested in who you see as potential good picks around #27.

Personally, I like Brice Johnson (great rebounder, high energy big), Cordinier (fantastic shooting stats, 6'5" SG, but don't know much about him), Benj Bentil (another high energy PF but with a bit of a 3 point shot - like Chriss).

Maybe we go for a backup C if Masai doesn't think we can bring Biyombo back and doesn't have enough confidence in Bebe going forward. If so, Zubac, Zizic and Qi all look like interesting late firsts. They could probably be stashed for a year or two as well - if roster spots are really a concern.

Your thoughts Dr?


My only issue with Brice is (based on a small sample size), I think having any mental make-up flag lowers a player's chances of being good. Brice is not Royce White but I think being a hothead/immature is a thing with him.

Some players I like at 27

Chinanu Onuaku - 19 year old C who's one of the best statistical players in the draft for me with a strong combination of blocks/steals, rebounds, assists, efficiency. A banger skill wise, but is a good passer and has size and athleticism.

Ron Baker - has some quality stats in stl, blk, reb, ast. Has 6'9 wingspan and 220 pounds so the measurables in addition to the defensive stats are good. A good not great shooter, has potential to be a 3pt shooter in the NBA.

Daniel Ochefu - good combination of shotblocking, rebounding, efficiency, assists, looks to have a pretty nice combination of length and strength for a C. Not the most skilled player but can be a role player

Malcolm Brogdon - this isn't even a player who shows up well in my #s. But using a Nylon Calculus shooting formula taking into account 3pt volume and FT% he rated as a top 5 shooter in the draft behind Hield, Valentine, Murray, and David Walker. He is a SG with 6'10 wingspan and 220 pounds. So going outside the numbers, that he looks to have potential to be a deadeye shooter with defensive tools, looks good. I think he's a lot closer to Hield and Valentine, also seniors with weak #s in my ratings, than his draft position justifies

Zhou Qi - I'm not sure what to make of CBA stats but his stats are good there at 16/10/3/.67 TS% and is like 18th in PER in the CBA. His numbers are better than Mudiay's were for example. When added to how he doesn't look like that different a version of pre draft Porzingis (crazy length, 3pt shooting, skinny) talent wise I think he may be worth the gamble for someone so long as he's not committed to staying in China his whole career or something


Thanks. I'll have a look at Malcolm Brogdon. He has been off my radar. As big as Murray, same wingspan as Valentine, several inches more wingspan than Hield or Murray. Looks interesting.

Yes, lots of these players are immature. Remember Murray tripping that player after his team crushed them? It was stupid but Calipari immediately chewed him out for it. Brice, Chriss, and a few others have done some stupid things as well. You would hope they grow out of it, and maybe even have some help growing up if surrounded by good team mates. Their talents make them worth the risk - most of the time.

I can't see Baker or Onuaku as first round picks. But I suppose the draft combine, interviews and workouts could change that. Definitely in the group of 25 players that could easily go 25-40 and be reasonable picks there. Some will fall, others will rise in the next 3 months. It is gonna be fun. But first, I hope the team has a nice long playoff run. :)
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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#922 » by deeps6x » Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:02 am

free wrote:
MEDIC wrote:
deeps6x wrote:
Yeah, you've gotta have more than rebounding going for you in this league. That kinda makes me wonder about Davis as our potential pick. For a big 6'10" kid who is always at the rim on O and D, he only had one free throw attempt per game, and only shot .605 from the line. Rabb on the other hand had about 5 free throw attempts per game, and made a higher percentage of them .669.

Otherwise they were quite similar.

11.9 TRB, N/A 3pt%, .615 FG%, .616 eFG%, 17.5 Pts, 1.3 Ast, 0.7 Stl, 1.7 Blk, .636 TS%, 24.2 PER, ORtg 124.8, DRtg 95.3, BPM 8.7. Ivan Rabb

11.8 TRB, N/A 3pt%, .598 FG%, .598 eFG%, 16.1 Pts, 1.6 Ast, 0.6 Stl, 3.9 Blk, .601 TS%, 23.9 PER, ORtg 121.4, DRtg 90.9, BPM 10.8.
D Davis

Both would be good picks at #9, but I'd lean towards Rabb based on stats alone - and having to carry Brown on D.


Quite a massive difference in shot blocking.


Yeah, it's so weird how Rabb contests so many less shots than Deyonta.

Not sure if it's a product of the UCLA system or something.

Davis has a 10% block rate vs Rabb 4%.

Rabb projects as a better shooter though.

I'm going back and forth on these two. Can't separate them!


I'm back and forth on them as well. I still see Davis with a slightly higher ceiling, but Rabb definitely has the higher floor at the moment. But ceilings = potential, and we all know sometimes that just never pans out. Both should be starters 2-3 years from now.

Also, I think you are missing the point on Davis. He is just exceptional at blocking shots. Compare to the other PFs we might be selecting:

14.8 TRB, N/A 3pt%, .614 FG%, .614 eFG%, 24.2 Pts, 2.1 Ast, 1.5 Stl, 2.1 Blk, .649 TS%, 33.0 PER, ORtg 130.2, DRtg 92.3, BPM 13.4.
Brice Johnson

8.9 TRB, .329 3pt%, .462 FG%, .510 eFG%, 25.4 Pts, 1.3 Ast, 1.0 Stl, 1.2 Blk, .567 TS%, 24.7 PER, ORtg 115.6, DRtg 99.8, BPM 6.7. Ben Bentil

11.9 TRB, N/A 3pt%, .615 FG%, .616 eFG%, 17.5 Pts, 1.3 Ast, 0.7 Stl, 1.7 Blk, .636 TS%, 24.2 PER, ORtg 124.8, DRtg 95.3, BPM 8.7. Ivan Rabb

11.8 TRB, N/A 3pt%, .598 FG%, .598 eFG%, 16.1 Pts, 1.6 Ast, 0.6 Stl, 3.9 Blk, .601 TS%, 23.9 PER, ORtg 121.4, DRtg 90.9, BPM 10.8.
D Davis

14.4 TRB, .250 3pt%, .561 FG%, .564 eFG%, 18.7 Pts, 2.3 Ast, 1.1 Stl, 2.1 Blk, .599 TS%, 27.8 PER, ORtg 127.6, DRtg 89.9, BPM 11.5. Matt Costello (played C next to Davis - just for comparison - he might go mid second round)

9.1 TRB, .444 3pt%, .462 FG%, .579 eFG%, 23.3 Pts, 9.4 Ast, 1.3 Stl, 0.3 Blk, .608 TS%, 29.7 PER, ORtg 127.2, DRtg 94.0, BPM 16.5. Valentine

8.6 TRB, .350 3pt%, .530 FG%, .561 eFG%, 22.1 Pts, 1.2 Ast, 1.5 Stl, 2.2 Blk, .585 TS%, 21.7 PER, ORtg 112.0, DRtg 102.2, BPM 5.9. Chriss

11.6 TRB, .288 3pt%, .446 FG%, .480 eFG%, 20.3 Pts, 2.1 Ast, 1.0 Stl, 1.8 Blk, .534 TS%, 20.9 PER, ORtg 106.3, DRtg 98.5, BPM 3.6. Ellenson

14.8 TRB, .357 3pt%, .611 FG%, .618 eFG%, 22.0 Pts, 2.2 Ast, 0.8 Stl, 1.1 Blk, .654 TS%, 29.3 PER, ORtg 124.6, DRtg 91.2, BPM 9.0. Sabonis

8.0 TRB, N/A 3pt%, .516 FG%, .516 eFG%, 16.7 Pts/40, 0.8 Ast, 0.6 Stl, 4.2 Blk, .540 TS%, 18.5 PER, ORtg 107.8, DRtg 96.9, BPM 5.2. Skal Labissiere

Blocking shots was also the one thing Skal does better than anyone else (per 40). And Valentine may rebound with these guys but he is a PG.
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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#923 » by TheGoodDoctor » Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:12 am

Sometimes watching footage of Chriss, his game and the fact he is a fairly decent 3 pt shooter really makes me wonder if he could actually be developed into SF. It's not like Carroll is some anklebreaking SF. From the analysis on him apparently he's actually really quick laterally which makes him opposite to Bruno where they thought he was a SF but his lateral quickness probably actually projects to be a PF and with Chriss maybe they think he's a PF because he's gotta tighten up his handle but physically and athletically there doesn't seem to be any limitations. I don't know, random thought...I just think if he were developed like one who knows what he could be

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The only thing I can't tell is it just me or does he come off pretty immature. Something about him just seems a little bit cocky
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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#924 » by UneducatedFan86 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:48 am

9th is about where I thought the pick would be when the season started. I'm fine with it. I wish we could of moved up but at least we didn't move back.

My draft board for 9th:
1a. Skal
1b. Luwawu
1c. Brown (If he drops, he becomes my 1a. Some boards have him dropping to our range, but I don't see it happening.)
4. Korkman (a stretch at our position)
5. Chriss
6. Rabb

I could be tempted to drop back a few picks to help a team move up. It really just depends on how the draft shapes up. Maybe trade the 9th for the 15th and 19th (Denver) or the 9th for the 16th and 23rd (Boston)

27th:
1. Thon Maker
2. International pick and/or someone with high-risk high-reward. Zhou Qi comes to mind.

I wouldn't trade the picks for veteran players. If we are going to give the max to Derozan (and likely near-max for Lowry), then we have to have an influx of cheap talent that we can groom and have waiting in the wings.
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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#925 » by mademan » Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:52 am

UneducatedFan86 wrote:9th is about where I thought the pick would be when the season started. I'm fine with it. I wish we could of moved up but at least we didn't move back.

My draft board for 9th:
1a. Skal
1b. Luwawu
1c. Brown (If he drops, he becomes my 1a. Some boards have him dropping to our range, but I don't see it happening.)
4. Korkman (a stretch at our position)
5. Chriss
6. Rabb

I could be tempted to drop back a few picks to help a team move up. It really just depends on how the draft shapes up. Maybe trade the 9th for the 15th and 19th (Denver) or the 9th for the 16th and 23rd (Boston)

27th:
1. Thon Maker
2. International pick and/or someone with high-risk high-reward. Zhou Qi comes to mind.

I wouldn't trade the picks for veteran players. If we are going to give the max to Derozan (and likely near-max for Lowry), then we have to have an influx of cheap talent that we can groom and have waiting in the wings.


If Masai thinks Korkmaz is available at 15, trading back with the Nuggets would be a great play, imo.
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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#926 » by UneducatedFan86 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:56 am

mademan wrote:
UneducatedFan86 wrote:9th is about where I thought the pick would be when the season started. I'm fine with it. I wish we could of moved up but at least we didn't move back.

My draft board for 9th:
1a. Skal
1b. Luwawu
1c. Brown (If he drops, he becomes my 1a. Some boards have him dropping to our range, but I don't see it happening.)
4. Korkman (a stretch at our position)
5. Chriss
6. Rabb

I could be tempted to drop back a few picks to help a team move up. It really just depends on how the draft shapes up. Maybe trade the 9th for the 15th and 19th (Denver) or the 9th for the 16th and 23rd (Boston)

27th:
1. Thon Maker
2. International pick and/or someone with high-risk high-reward. Zhou Qi comes to mind.

I wouldn't trade the picks for veteran players. If we are going to give the max to Derozan (and likely near-max for Lowry), then we have to have an influx of cheap talent that we can groom and have waiting in the wings.


If Masai thinks Korkmaz is available at 15, trading back with the Nuggets would be a great play, imo.


Yeah, that's pretty much what I had in mind. We could probably get Korkmaz (15th), Sabonis/Thon (19th) and Zhou Qi (28th). That's a pretty good haul for a playoff team.
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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#927 » by mademan » Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:09 am

UneducatedFan86 wrote:
mademan wrote:
UneducatedFan86 wrote:9th is about where I thought the pick would be when the season started. I'm fine with it. I wish we could of moved up but at least we didn't move back.

My draft board for 9th:
1a. Skal
1b. Luwawu
1c. Brown (If he drops, he becomes my 1a. Some boards have him dropping to our range, but I don't see it happening.)
4. Korkman (a stretch at our position)
5. Chriss
6. Rabb

I could be tempted to drop back a few picks to help a team move up. It really just depends on how the draft shapes up. Maybe trade the 9th for the 15th and 19th (Denver) or the 9th for the 16th and 23rd (Boston)

27th:
1. Thon Maker
2. International pick and/or someone with high-risk high-reward. Zhou Qi comes to mind.

I wouldn't trade the picks for veteran players. If we are going to give the max to Derozan (and likely near-max for Lowry), then we have to have an influx of cheap talent that we can groom and have waiting in the wings.


If Masai thinks Korkmaz is available at 15, trading back with the Nuggets would be a great play, imo.


Yeah, that's pretty much what I had in mind. We could probably get Korkmaz (15th), Sabonis/Thon (19th) and Zhou Qi (28th). That's a pretty good haul for a playoff team.


Not a fan of Sabonis or Thon. Would much rather draft Prince at 19. If we had to go with a big though, id get Zubac, who's grossly underrated
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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#928 » by Johnny Be Goode » Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:46 am

If we keep our pick, we should use it for a player that we can stash overseas imo. We just don't have enough space in our roster for 2 rookies, we'll barely have space for one more.

What do you think about Alpha Kaba? He's been compared to Serge Ibaka. Great measurements: 6' 10" with shoes, 7' 5.25" wingspan and 9' 2.5" standing reach.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Alpha-Kaba-76960/stats/

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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#929 » by Too Late Crew » Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:59 am

S.W.A.N wrote:
Too Late Crew wrote:There seems to be some MAJOR disagreement on Demetrius Jackson.

Draftexpress has him at 11.
NBAdraft.net has him at 32?

WOW

Just outside the lottery or in the 2nd round. Somone is gonna be very wrong I think.



This time of year guys are all over the map. Until combine and workouts its very fluid. Guys that have grown since last measurements, and guys who kill it in testing go up, then workouts happen and guys with skills rise again.

I'll bet at least two names people have consistently called top 15 drop into 20's and two names from late first round end up in lotto. Just the nature of the draft.


Not really the same thing.

Moving from 15 to the 20s or from say 25 to 10 is not the same as from 11 to 32.
Especially when it's a multi year NCAA player from a big time program.

Jackson isn't some young raw guy or some overseas player with contract issues.
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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#930 » by whatamoron » Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:24 pm

UnderdogRaptors wrote:Thon and sabonis and I'm happy

With those 2 the Raptors 905 would be a powerhouse, I'm not so sure about the NBA
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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#931 » by DreamTeam09 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:36 pm

I like Skal at 9 too. He's an NBA player and in this draft at 9, that's probably a good haul. He has potential to be an elite rim defender at the pf spot too. Lots of potential to be taken at 9. If he had a big year at UK he probably wouldn't even be there at 9
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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#932 » by DarkKnight » Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:43 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:I like Skal at 9 too. He's an NBA player and in this draft at 9, that's probably a good haul. He has potential to be an elite rim defender at the pf spot too. Lots of potential to be taken at 9. If he had a big year at UK he probably wouldn't even be there at 9


What convinces you that "he's an NBA player"? If he came from different circumstances he'd likely be staying in school, and based on his production and his completely lost look on the court he's not far ahead of a guy like Bruno right now...which is to say he's not a real basketball player yet.
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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#933 » by MEDIC » Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:56 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:I like Skal at 9 too. He's an NBA player and in this draft at 9, that's probably a good haul. He has potential to be an elite rim defender at the pf spot too. Lots of potential to be taken at 9. If he had a big year at UK he probably wouldn't even be there at 9


Skal could very well be the Rudy Gay or Andre Drummond of this draft. Touted as a top 3 pick coming out of HS, but underwhelming in his freshman season & falling in the draft.

I think it will come down to Masai & Casey's feeling about his commitment on the defensive end. Casey really likes Amir type PF's that can rotate & recover quickly. If they feel Skal can be that guy for them while also having high offensive potential, Skal might be that guy.

Having said that, Casey & Masai like serious, professional, coachable, hard working guys. I don't know much about Skal in that regard, but some suggest in this thread that he is a little on the immature side.
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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#934 » by CunningLinguist » Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:15 pm

DarkKnight wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:I like Skal at 9 too. He's an NBA player and in this draft at 9, that's probably a good haul. He has potential to be an elite rim defender at the pf spot too. Lots of potential to be taken at 9. If he had a big year at UK he probably wouldn't even be there at 9


What convinces you that "he's an NBA player"? If he came from different circumstances he'd likely be staying in school, and based on his production and his completely lost look on the court he's not far ahead of a guy like Bruno right now...which is to say he's not a real basketball player yet.


He has a solid face-up jumpshot and a turnaround jumper and hook shot over either shoulder in addition to shotblocking ability. Combine this with his athleticism and strong measurables, there's a lot to like. I don't think he'll play many, if any, NBA minutes his first year, but he has signficant potential and his rebounding should improve as he gains size/strength. You have to remember that he is relatively new to the game.
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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#935 » by Young_Buc » Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:23 pm

Skal screams Andre Drummond of the draft. Drummond was supposed to be the #1 prospect (not Davis) out of high school. Similarly, skal was #1 going into the season
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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#936 » by BoyzNTheHood » Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:49 pm

Casey has influence over the pick, as we've seen with TRoss and Delon. Now, remember we need a PF who can stretch the floor and defend. Also, remember Casey went to Kentucky. And finally, think Skal Labissiere.
deeps6x wrote:I guarantee you that (Jaylen) Brown and (Kris) Dunn are drafted OUT of the top 5.
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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#937 » by NBA48mins » Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:32 pm

I hope Jaylen Brown falls to 9 but it will be unlikely :( hope to a better future core
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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#938 » by Left Side Drive » Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:35 pm

That pick the Knicks gave us is helping me cope with game 1.
Looking for a new signature. Currently, still evaluating.
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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#939 » by TheGoodDoctor » Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:37 pm

Left Side Drive wrote:That pick the Knicks gave us is helping me cope with game 1.


If we lose this series even fluking into the top 2 wouldn't help me.
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Re: Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4) 

Post#940 » by NBA48mins » Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:48 pm

The game is really shifting towards guards who can flat out shoot and play a team style basketball. CJ Mccollum and lillard are examples of making it in the west. Relying on the refs to blow their whistles is out of your control but making that jump shot is all in your power. Murray and Hield fit this new style of basketball. Neither of them will be on the board when the raptors draft unfortunately
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