The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason

[jcsunsfan]

It is a tough thing to accept as a fan when Brian Windhorst says the Minnesota Timberwolves are looked at as a far better coaching situation than the Phoenix Suns. Sarver has officially driven this franchise into the ground. No one wants to come to Phoenix anymore. This used to be a top five destination in the league. Now it is in the bottom five. I do not know what Sarver can do to rehabilitate his reputation. Players and coaches do not want to work for him. It is sad that a once proud franchise has been relegated to a laughing stock. The fact that this board is so active goes to show how much we all want the team to become great again but Idk how that will ever happen with Sarver as the owner.

But that is more about the players on the roster than the owner isn't it. They have KAT, Wiggins, and Levine, plus a lottery pick this year. The TWolves are a little closer to really competing than the Suns.

Everything looks good on paper. Call me when you are winning.

Minny is considered the better job because Minny has KAT, plain and simple. He is looking like a generational talent--a Duncan, a Hakeem. They also have lots of good young pieces around him. That appeals to a coach.

DBook is a nice piece, but not KAT.

[jcsunsfan]

Who is supposed to right the ship? The guy that signed a 5'9" point guard when the team already had Bledsoe, Dragic, and Ennis? Give me a break. The worst part is Sarver's confidence in him. It goes to show the heart of my point that Sarver is the problem. It all starts with Sarver.

Well that's not accurate. It is funny how ppl subtly bend a narrative to prove a point. Bledsoe hadn't even spoken to the organization when IT was signed. It was very much in doubt that a deal was going be done. He didn't want to go into the season with Dragic & a rookie Ennis as the only PGs. Plus the deal was a good one & likely too good to pass up financially. Once Bledsoe was signed things went wonky.

I think Bledsoe was going to sign and McD always knew he would sign. They just played a tough negotiation so they would end up in the middle of the max wanted and $12 million per offered. IT was a nice value signing but knowing he was told he would start (didn't know this until I read a quote of Hornacek saying he was told he would start when signed) was not good. McD seems like he tells people what they want to hear regardless of what he thinks. I can be forgiving for rookie GM mistakes like that, but when they add up that is a problem.

I am not sure he makes some of the moves he did without pressure from Sarver to compete, so I don't know that another GM could do better with our circumstance. So McD needs to improve in some aspects, and he can't make any more dumb signings that create logjams particularly when you hand out fairly large contracts at positions with no need. I still don't totally mind the Chandler signing, but the Knight thing bothers me.

I can't see him trading Knight soon either, so next season could potentially be like the last two where we have chemistry issues due to a disgruntled player. I wouldn't mind getting another high pick because we could use one in the next draft because the top few guys are bigs but the rest of the lottery looks to be guards, and mostly point guards, but to go through another season like this one will be painful.

If we can't strike gold in this draft, or start out really strong and have excellent chemistry, or strike some crazy deal or land a prized free agent (all of these are extremely unlikely), our best course of action might be to completely reload with youth and just have Booker be that cornerstone we build around with him being our Durant and drafting a couple of other high picks in the next couple of years while strictly playing young guys.

I hate Philly's tactic, but I'm saying there are 4 teams at the top of the west that will be tough to crack, and at least a couple young teams with stacked talent we are behind so our BEST case scenario for the foreseeable future is a 7 or 8 seed and a first round exit. I wouldn't mind that if I thought we had enough young talent so far for our next deep playoff run, but I don't think we do.

This is the first I have seen anywhere where IT was told he would start. Do you have a source? It just does not make sense. The Suns had heard nothing from the Bledsoe camp and had no idea where negotiations were going. I believe, at the time they signed IT, they were looking into sign and trade options and would have done it had a good deal presented itself. Minnesota was reported to have been pursuing him hard.

[Zelaznyrules]

Well that's not accurate. It is funny how ppl subtly bend a narrative to prove a point. Bledsoe hadn't even spoken to the organization when IT was signed. It was very much in doubt that a deal was going be done. He didn't want to go into the season with Dragic & a rookie Ennis as the only PGs. Plus the deal was a good one & likely too good to pass up financially. Once Bledsoe was signed things went wonky.

I think Bledsoe was going to sign and McD always knew he would sign. They just played a tough negotiation so they would end up in the middle of the max wanted and $12 million per offered. IT was a nice value signing but knowing he was told he would start (didn't know this until I read a quote of Hornacek saying he was told he would start when signed) was not good. McD seems like he tells people what they want to hear regardless of what he thinks. I can be forgiving for rookie GM mistakes like that, but when they add up that is a problem.

I am not sure he makes some of the moves he did without pressure from Sarver to compete, so I don't know that another GM could do better with our circumstance. So McD needs to improve in some aspects, and he can't make any more dumb signings that create logjams particularly when you hand out fairly large contracts at positions with no need. I still don't totally mind the Chandler signing, but the Knight thing bothers me.

I can't see him trading Knight soon either, so next season could potentially be like the last two where we have chemistry issues due to a disgruntled player. I wouldn't mind getting another high pick because we could use one in the next draft because the top few guys are bigs but the rest of the lottery looks to be guards, and mostly point guards, but to go through another season like this one will be painful.

If we can't strike gold in this draft, or start out really strong and have excellent chemistry, or strike some crazy deal or land a prized free agent (all of these are extremely unlikely), our best course of action might be to completely reload with youth and just have Booker be that cornerstone we build around with him being our Durant and drafting a couple of other high picks in the next couple of years while strictly playing young guys.

I hate Philly's tactic, but I'm saying there are 4 teams at the top of the west that will be tough to crack, and at least a couple young teams with stacked talent we are behind so our BEST case scenario for the foreseeable future is a 7 or 8 seed and a first round exit. I wouldn't mind that if I thought we had enough young talent so far for our next deep playoff run, but I don't think we do.

This is the first I have seen anywhere where IT was told he would start. Do you have a source? It just does not make sense. The Suns had heard nothing from the Bledsoe camp and had no idea where negotiations were going. I believe, at the time they signed IT, they were looking into sign and trade options and would have done it had a good deal presented itself. Minnesota was reported to have been pursuing him hard.

I find it difficult to believe too. I remember the press conference (maybe it was an interview right after) where Thomas said he was told the best players would start and that he would have a chance to earn that role. That was slightly different from the way Ryan and Babby phrased it in their press conference but either way it's a long way from promising him he'll start.

[bwgood77]

Well that's not accurate. It is funny how ppl subtly bend a narrative to prove a point. Bledsoe hadn't even spoken to the organization when IT was signed. It was very much in doubt that a deal was going be done. He didn't want to go into the season with Dragic & a rookie Ennis as the only PGs. Plus the deal was a good one & likely too good to pass up financially. Once Bledsoe was signed things went wonky.

I think Bledsoe was going to sign and McD always knew he would sign. They just played a tough negotiation so they would end up in the middle of the max wanted and $12 million per offered. IT was a nice value signing but knowing he was told he would start (didn't know this until I read a quote of Hornacek saying he was told he would start when signed) was not good. McD seems like he tells people what they want to hear regardless of what he thinks. I can be forgiving for rookie GM mistakes like that, but when they add up that is a problem.

I am not sure he makes some of the moves he did without pressure from Sarver to compete, so I don't know that another GM could do better with our circumstance. So McD needs to improve in some aspects, and he can't make any more dumb signings that create logjams particularly when you hand out fairly large contracts at positions with no need. I still don't totally mind the Chandler signing, but the Knight thing bothers me.

I can't see him trading Knight soon either, so next season could potentially be like the last two where we have chemistry issues due to a disgruntled player. I wouldn't mind getting another high pick because we could use one in the next draft because the top few guys are bigs but the rest of the lottery looks to be guards, and mostly point guards, but to go through another season like this one will be painful.

If we can't strike gold in this draft, or start out really strong and have excellent chemistry, or strike some crazy deal or land a prized free agent (all of these are extremely unlikely), our best course of action might be to completely reload with youth and just have Booker be that cornerstone we build around with him being our Durant and drafting a couple of other high picks in the next couple of years while strictly playing young guys.

I hate Philly's tactic, but I'm saying there are 4 teams at the top of the west that will be tough to crack, and at least a couple young teams with stacked talent we are behind so our BEST case scenario for the foreseeable future is a 7 or 8 seed and a first round exit. I wouldn't mind that if I thought we had enough young talent so far for our next deep playoff run, but I don't think we do.

This is the first I have seen anywhere where IT was told he would start. Do you have a source? It just does not make sense. The Suns had heard nothing from the Bledsoe camp and had no idea where negotiations were going. I believe, at the time they signed IT, they were looking into sign and trade options and would have done it had a good deal presented itself. Minnesota was reported to have been pursuing him hard.

I posted it a couple of weeks ago, and it was the first I had seen it too. I am pretty sure it was in the sporting news, and I'm not sure how old the article is, but I'll try and find it.

[bwgood77]

I think Bledsoe was going to sign and McD always knew he would sign. They just played a tough negotiation so they would end up in the middle of the max wanted and $12 million per offered. IT was a nice value signing but knowing he was told he would start (didn't know this until I read a quote of Hornacek saying he was told he would start when signed) was not good. McD seems like he tells people what they want to hear regardless of what he thinks. I can be forgiving for rookie GM mistakes like that, but when they add up that is a problem.

I am not sure he makes some of the moves he did without pressure from Sarver to compete, so I don't know that another GM could do better with our circumstance. So McD needs to improve in some aspects, and he can't make any more dumb signings that create logjams particularly when you hand out fairly large contracts at positions with no need. I still don't totally mind the Chandler signing, but the Knight thing bothers me.

I can't see him trading Knight soon either, so next season could potentially be like the last two where we have chemistry issues due to a disgruntled player. I wouldn't mind getting another high pick because we could use one in the next draft because the top few guys are bigs but the rest of the lottery looks to be guards, and mostly point guards, but to go through another season like this one will be painful.

If we can't strike gold in this draft, or start out really strong and have excellent chemistry, or strike some crazy deal or land a prized free agent (all of these are extremely unlikely), our best course of action might be to completely reload with youth and just have Booker be that cornerstone we build around with him being our Durant and drafting a couple of other high picks in the next couple of years while strictly playing young guys.

I hate Philly's tactic, but I'm saying there are 4 teams at the top of the west that will be tough to crack, and at least a couple young teams with stacked talent we are behind so our BEST case scenario for the foreseeable future is a 7 or 8 seed and a first round exit. I wouldn't mind that if I thought we had enough young talent so far for our next deep playoff run, but I don't think we do.

This is the first I have seen anywhere where IT was told he would start. Do you have a source? It just does not make sense. The Suns had heard nothing from the Bledsoe camp and had no idea where negotiations were going. I believe, at the time they signed IT, they were looking into sign and trade options and would have done it had a good deal presented itself. Minnesota was reported to have been pursuing him hard.

I find it difficult to believe too. I remember the press conference (maybe it was an interview right after) where Thomas said he was told the best players would start and that he would have a chance to earn that role. That was slightly different from the way Ryan and Babby phrased it in their press conference but either way it's a long way from promising him he'll start.

Here it is:

“When Ryan (McDonough) made the deal, it was a case where Isaiah was going to be a starter, asked to be a starter, but we have Eric Bledsoe,” Hornacek said. “It's probably pretty difficult to start a 5-7 and a 6-foot guy in the backcourt. We were trying to replace what Goran was giving us, and what Isaiah was giving us. Unfortunately, (this year) Eric got hurt and we weren't playing great prior to that, but Brandon is in that position now where he is the full-time point guard.”

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba-news/4691398-phoenix-suns-markieff-morris-trade-eric-bledsoe-injury-devin-booker-brandon-knight

[Zelaznyrules]

This is the first I have seen anywhere where IT was told he would start. Do you have a source? It just does not make sense. The Suns had heard nothing from the Bledsoe camp and had no idea where negotiations were going. I believe, at the time they signed IT, they were looking into sign and trade options and would have done it had a good deal presented itself. Minnesota was reported to have been pursuing him hard.

I find it difficult to believe too. I remember the press conference (maybe it was an interview right after) where Thomas said he was told the best players would start and that he would have a chance to earn that role. That was slightly different from the way Ryan and Babby phrased it in their press conference but either way it's a long way from promising him he'll start.

Here it is:

“When Ryan (McDonough) made the deal, it was a case where Isaiah was going to be a starter, asked to be a starter, but we have Eric Bledsoe,” Hornacek said. “It's probably pretty difficult to start a 5-7 and a 6-foot guy in the backcourt. We were trying to replace what Goran was giving us, and what Isaiah was giving us. Unfortunately, (this year) Eric got hurt and we weren't playing great prior to that, but Brandon is in that position now where he is the full-time point guard.”

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba-news/4691398-phoenix-suns-markieff-morris-trade-eric-bledsoe-injury-devin-booker-brandon-knight

That's a very ambiguous statement though. It's difficult to say what Jeff's intent was there. I can see why you took it as you did but he doesn't actually say Thomas was promised the job. At the time of the signing, Thomas was "going" to be the starting point guard because Bledsoe was still unsigned. So it's understandable why Thomas thought he'd start. I've also heard that he'd been persuaded by his agent to take the job because the agent was convinced that Bledsoe would not re-sign in Phoenix. And I've also seen it speculated that IT fired his agent for that misunderstanding.

[Walt_Uoob]

I find it difficult to believe too. I remember the press conference (maybe it was an interview right after) where Thomas said he was told the best players would start and that he would have a chance to earn that role. That was slightly different from the way Ryan and Babby phrased it in their press conference but either way it's a long way from promising him he'll start.

Here it is:

“When Ryan (McDonough) made the deal, it was a case where Isaiah was going to be a starter, asked to be a starter, but we have Eric Bledsoe,” Hornacek said. “It's probably pretty difficult to start a 5-7 and a 6-foot guy in the backcourt. We were trying to replace what Goran was giving us, and what Isaiah was giving us. Unfortunately, (this year) Eric got hurt and we weren't playing great prior to that, but Brandon is in that position now where he is the full-time point guard.”

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba-news/4691398-phoenix-suns-markieff-morris-trade-eric-bledsoe-injury-devin-booker-brandon-knight

That's a very ambiguous statement though. It's difficult to say what Jeff's intent was there. I can see why you took it as you did but he doesn't actually say Thomas was promised the job. At the time of the signing, Thomas was "going" to be the starting point guard because Bledsoe was still unsigned. So it's understandable why Thomas thought he'd start. I've also heard that he'd been persuaded by his agent to take the job because the agent was convinced that Bledsoe would not re-sign in Phoenix. And I've also seen it speculated that IT fired his agent for that misunderstanding.

Yeah I took that to refer to the trade deadline, not the IT signing. Essentially I took to mean: "When Ryan made the deals at the deadline, it was because we had IT as a starting-caliber player who was too short to start next to Bledsoe. So we swapped him for a player in Knight who we thought we could start next to Bledsoe, similar to how we had been playing Bledsoe and Dragic together."

[jcsunsfan]

Here it is:



http://www.sportingnews.com/nba-news/4691398-phoenix-suns-markieff-morris-trade-eric-bledsoe-injury-devin-booker-brandon-knight

That's a very ambiguous statement though. It's difficult to say what Jeff's intent was there. I can see why you took it as you did but he doesn't actually say Thomas was promised the job. At the time of the signing, Thomas was "going" to be the starting point guard because Bledsoe was still unsigned. So it's understandable why Thomas thought he'd start. I've also heard that he'd been persuaded by his agent to take the job because the agent was convinced that Bledsoe would not re-sign in Phoenix. And I've also seen it speculated that IT fired his agent for that misunderstanding.

Yeah I took that to refer to the trade deadline, not the IT signing. Essentially I took to mean: "When Ryan made the deals at the deadline, it was because we had IT as a starting-caliber player who was too short to start next to Bledsoe. So we swapped him for a player in Knight who we thought we could start next to Bledsoe, similar to how we had been playing Bledsoe and Dragic together."

It took it exactly the way you did. That IT and Bledsoe were both starting caliber pg's but were too small to play together. BTw. I would agree with that assessment. IT and Bledsoe are both too small to start together. So it was either IT or Bledsoe. They chose Bledsoe.

BTW. It also shows that in team mgmt's mind, all of those deals made at the deadline last year were viewed sort of together. To them, they swapped IT and the Laker pick, alongs with other stuff for Knight and the Cleveland pick.

[bwgood77]

I find it difficult to believe too. I remember the press conference (maybe it was an interview right after) where Thomas said he was told the best players would start and that he would have a chance to earn that role. That was slightly different from the way Ryan and Babby phrased it in their press conference but either way it's a long way from promising him he'll start.

Here it is:

“When Ryan (McDonough) made the deal, it was a case where Isaiah was going to be a starter, asked to be a starter, but we have Eric Bledsoe,” Hornacek said. “It's probably pretty difficult to start a 5-7 and a 6-foot guy in the backcourt. We were trying to replace what Goran was giving us, and what Isaiah was giving us. Unfortunately, (this year) Eric got hurt and we weren't playing great prior to that, but Brandon is in that position now where he is the full-time point guard.”

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba-news/4691398-phoenix-suns-markieff-morris-trade-eric-bledsoe-injury-devin-booker-brandon-knight

That's a very ambiguous statement though. It's difficult to say what Jeff's intent was there. I can see why you took it as you did but he doesn't actually say Thomas was promised the job. At the time of the signing, Thomas was "going" to be the starting point guard because Bledsoe was still unsigned. So it's understandable why Thomas thought he'd start. I've also heard that he'd been persuaded by his agent to take the job because the agent was convinced that Bledsoe would not re-sign in Phoenix. And I've also seen it speculated that IT fired his agent for that misunderstanding.

It didn't sound very ambiguous to me and it makes sense that there wee chemistry issues and it didn't make it any easier to coach in a way that everyone would be happy with their roles.

[bwgood77]

That's a very ambiguous statement though. It's difficult to say what Jeff's intent was there. I can see why you took it as you did but he doesn't actually say Thomas was promised the job. At the time of the signing, Thomas was "going" to be the starting point guard because Bledsoe was still unsigned. So it's understandable why Thomas thought he'd start. I've also heard that he'd been persuaded by his agent to take the job because the agent was convinced that Bledsoe would not re-sign in Phoenix. And I've also seen it speculated that IT fired his agent for that misunderstanding.

Yeah I took that to refer to the trade deadline, not the IT signing. Essentially I took to mean: "When Ryan made the deals at the deadline, it was because we had IT as a starting-caliber player who was too short to start next to Bledsoe. So we swapped him for a player in Knight who we thought we could start next to Bledsoe, similar to how we had been playing Bledsoe and Dragic together."

It took it exactly the way you did. That IT and Bledsoe were both starting caliber pg's but were too small to play together. BTw. I would agree with that assessment. IT and Bledsoe are both too small to start together. So it was either IT or Bledsoe. They chose Bledsoe.

BTW. It also shows that in team mgmt's mind, all of those deals made at the deadline last year were viewed sort of together. To them, they swapped IT and the Laker pick, alongs with other stuff for Knight and the Cleveland pick.

OK I guess it makes sense from that perspective in the sense that Goran was already going to be gone or was gone, which would have made IT the as tarter which doesn't fit.

[jcsunsfan]

Yeah I took that to refer to the trade deadline, not the IT signing. Essentially I took to mean: "When Ryan made the deals at the deadline, it was because we had IT as a starting-caliber player who was too short to start next to Bledsoe. So we swapped him for a player in Knight who we thought we could start next to Bledsoe, similar to how we had been playing Bledsoe and Dragic together."

It took it exactly the way you did. That IT and Bledsoe were both starting caliber pg's but were too small to play together. BTw. I would agree with that assessment. IT and Bledsoe are both too small to start together. So it was either IT or Bledsoe. They chose Bledsoe.

BTW. It also shows that in team mgmt's mind, all of those deals made at the deadline last year were viewed sort of together. To them, they swapped IT and the Laker pick, alongs with other stuff for Knight and the Cleveland pick.

OK I guess it makes sense from that perspective in the sense that Goran was already going to be gone or was gone, which would have made IT the as tarter which doesn't fit.

Exactly.

[Frank Lee]

Those were swings that McMully should have taken on the driving range. It's done and over. What was said and promised was sales pitching to get the sig on the dotted line. Can't keep doing that and expect good results.

It's clear we have a opening for a starting PF... That and money should be the focus of negotiation for a real deal

[TeamTragic]

Are we still bitching about IT? HOLY ****. First you won't let go of your boyfriend Dragic (which you are STILL talking about) and now the Bledsoe/IT deal?

Maybe find a new player that you can call your bae

[Frank Lee]

Who you talking to GT ? If it's me pack some GD sand

[TeamTragic]

Who you talking to GT ? If it's me pack some GD sand

Right before you posted. The never ending debate about nothing.

[Saberestar]

Everyday is a day closer back to the game I love. God speed

https://mobile.twitter.com/TonyWarrenJr/status/721166203130146816

Hopefully Warren is completely healthy in two months and can play summer league next to Booker and our other picks.

[Qwigglez]

Everyday is a day closer back to the game I love. God speed

https://mobile.twitter.com/TonyWarrenJr/status/721166203130146816

Hopefully Warren is completely healthy in two months and can play summer league next to Booker and our other picks.

He's talking about League of Legends, he actively plays that in the off-season with Gordon Hayward, he's probably reaching out to Booker to see if they want to join forces. I heard he went to the event in Vegas this weekend to watch the pro's battle it out.


just kidding

[Ghost of Kleine]

Sour grapes to be sure for alot of us regarding past decisions . But what's done is done. As a franchise, We really need to stick to some form of discernable plan.

I would surely hope after the continual free agency failures, We would finally commit to rebuilding through the draft.

This obviously allows us the most control over our future with these young prospects, both developmentally, as well as contractually.

Also there is some consideration that should be given to the idea that young players do develop a small bond or feeling of loyalty to the team that drafted them. Unless they are self serving, preening, primadonnas like the morris bros.

All that being said, Who should be our most realistic target in free agency given the current state of our team?

I know that I might get flamed a bit by this, But I would like us to see us somehow reasonably (if possible) acquire
Blake Griffin.

I see him as a more athletic yet developing version of Karl Malone, who used to play for the jazz. Didn't like him much as a player, as I thought he as well as stockton where dirty , But he was very productive and a perrenial all-star.

Both players used brute strength primarily,
So I feel the comparison is somewhat accurate. I really think that to compliment bookers game, we need an explosive power player in the paint to draw the defenses in more. Wether it comes through the draft or free agency.

[AtheJ415]

The sour grapes, aside from the Tyson signing, are beyond unfounded.

Signing IT was great. We got a great talent at next to no money, and then traded him for a first. You could say we should have gotten more, but the reality is we just manufactured a first rounder. And boo hoo Goran left for 2 firsts. Goran is one of the worst contracts in basketball, and if signing IT forced us to trade him for 2 firsts, then it was the greatest move of the past 5 years.

The only people who have a right to have sour grapes here are the ones who honesty think that 48 win team was the start of a title contender, and I seriously question the basketball capacity of anybody thinking that.

[AtheJ415]

The Suns players unanimously supported bringing Watson back. Mirza Teletovic even said his potential re-signing is predicated on whether Watson gets the job.

I don't know if that is a good or a bad thing....Teletovic wants Watson back because he has played big time minutes and he has been shooting every time that he touched the ball under Watson. But I don't think he can be an important player on a playoff team because he takes too many shots and his defense is just horrible. He reminds me of Gerald Green because he can make incredible shots but he doesn't contribute a lot on another stuff.

Yup, and it's really funny that people pile on here and pine for that 48 win team of nobodies and blame the GM for dismantling it, because that great chemistry was for the same reason--every single player on that team was getting the best opportunity of their careers. Chemistry is easy when that happens. Of course all those players loved Jeff and were crazy happy. Of course they wanted to keep that team together. But start bringing in better players and the current players aren't so happy anymore. Plenty of teams handle that issue. Our coach inexplicably thought it wasn't his job to do so.