HawaiianJazzFan wrote:IAmTheBest wrote:erudite23 wrote:
Don't get me wrong. I'm not even making the case that I would put Lyles solidly in front of Booker. My statement before was that I would put Lyles, Booker and Turner on the same approximate plane, below Towns, Porzingis and Russell for sure and perhaps Okafor and Mudiay (depending on how you evaluate their performances thus far).
Booker showed some great stuff earlier in the season with his ability to space the floor and attack closeouts as a secondary or tertiary offensive weapon. That is much more indicative of what I think he will be long term. As good as he's looked at times running the pick and roll and creating offense, the numbers are not just bad, they are terrible.
Players that accumulate big numbers with low efficiency on teams that are eliminated from the playoffs have almost zero correlation with future performance in real games. Towns has been putting up big numbers with great efficiency all season. Therein lies the difference. He has shown every indication that he can carry become a primary weapon on a winning team through 1) his own improvement and 2) the improvement of the roster around him.
This isn't an exact science and there are many factors to consider. Lyles hasn't had eye popping numbers, but he has had success and produced efficiently for a team that is playing for something. He's also done this in the same type of role he will be expected to fill in the future, which is NOT the case for Booker. After this season, Book will likely return to his role as a shooter and secondary ball handler.
Does that make sense?
No - it doesnt make sense.
Booker is a tier above Lyles. Booker doesnt have the luxury of playing with the same kind of talent as Lyles and therefore commands more defensive pressure. Booker is a 19 year old guard while Lyles is a 20 year old bigman. Booker is more than a full year younger than Lyles in a league where the learning curve is far steeper for guards than it is for bigmen. On top of this Booker has played 2100 minutes to Lyles' 1300 minutes.
Taking all of these extremely important aspects into account, it is clear that Booker has easily had the superior year and is the better prospect. Booker has far more potential and you have to be nuts to consider picking Lyles over Booker
Haha, so your argument for Booker being better is that he was on a bad team, chucked, and played a bunch of minutes???
First, bigs take longer to develop than guards and that is pretty much known across the league. Also, Booker is LESS THAN a full year younger than Lyles (October comes before November) I don't know why you needed to lie there. Lyles is 5 inches taller, can handle the ball and can pass of the dribble as a 6'10 BIG MAN... and he still shot better than Booker from 3 (38% to 34%). For a big man to come into the league and demand time in a front court that is stacked is pretty impressive. Booker essentially got to come into the games and chuck with low efficiency on a bad team, that isn't difficult to do... just as Nick Young.
Oh and for some more facts look at the post above:
D. Booker: 19.5 3.0, 4.2, 0.7 stl, 50.3 TS%, 11.9 PER (35.3 mpg)
T. Lyles: 17.6, 7.2, 1.6, 1.0 stl, 54.7 TS%, 15.6 PER (17.5 mpg)
If anything Trey was in a tougher situation because he had to fight, Hayward, Gobert, Favors and Booker for time. When Lyles started he shot 44% from three. I'm not saying that Booker is a bad player, I'd love to have him. To say he is a better prospect however isn't really possible to say at this point. Lyles potential is a non-crazy better shooting version of Lamar Odom. Odom's are pretty rare finds, especially for a front court that is dying for someone to provide space like Trey.
So now 11 FGA per game is chucking? The fact of the matter is that he has contributed more to his team than Lyles to his.
I didnt say anything about developing players. I said learning curve. Bigs take longer to develop over the course of a career but in terms of first year as a pro, there is an immense learning curve for guards as the games are played in a very different way which is consequential to guards who are responsible for ball handling and initiating plays.
Regarding their birthdays - i got the months mixed up. regardless, lyles is practically a full year older than booker, which is huge in terms of prospect evaluation.
The fact that you bring up stats like TS% and PER in this discussion is comical. The facts of the matter are that Booker is a year younger , plays almost twice the minutes, has twice as many FGA's per game, and is forced to create his own shot more than Lyles. Those obviously have something to do with decreased PER and TX%. I hate to break it to you, but only stat nerds who make evaluations based on basketballreference.com and dont know anything about basketball would think those are relevant here.
All of the arguments you are using now could be used against rookie Giannis Antetokuompo, who came into the league at around the same age and into the same role and put up the same stats that you used. People who actually watched the game and took into account all of the factors ive mentioned knew he was a special player though.
Lyles is good but he is nowhere near the prospect that Booker is lol
