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Official BKN Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0]

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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1241 » by jmr07019 » Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:39 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
jmr07019 wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
The NBA draft conspiracy theory is the strangest of all conspiracy theories to me. Since the Ewing draft that spawned it, loser cities and franchises have won it almost exclusively. Cavs won the #1 pick five times, including Lebron. Orlando won 3 times, including the Webber and Shaq drafts. San Antonio lands both DRob and Duncan. New Orleans lands Anthony Davis. Towns to Minnesota. NJ, Milwaukee, Clippers all win twice.

Meanwhile, most of the high-profile teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Knicks etc always seem to slip.

Not a shred of evidence to support anything but the most bizarre of conspiracy theories, yet the myth sustains.


The evidence is that they don't televise the drawing.


For what purpose?


to announce the winners of the lottery
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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1242 » by rickrolled » Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:43 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:Let's not kid ourselves folks. The Lakers are getting that 1st pick overall. Pretty sure that the sealed envelope with the Lakers logo in it is just sitting in Adam's inbox on his desk, waiting to be opened on lottery day.


The NBA draft conspiracy theory is the strangest of all conspiracy theories to me. Since the Ewing draft that spawned it, loser cities and franchises have won it almost exclusively. Cavs won the #1 pick five times, including Lebron. Orlando won 3 times, including the Webber and Shaq drafts. San Antonio lands both DRob and Duncan. New Orleans lands Anthony Davis. Towns to Minnesota. NJ, Milwaukee, Clippers all win twice.

Meanwhile, most of the high-profile teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Knicks etc always seem to slip.

Not a shred of evidence to support anything but the most bizarre of conspiracy theories, yet the myth sustains.

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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1243 » by SMTBSI » Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:02 pm

jmr07019 wrote:The evidence is that they don't televise the drawing.

I counter that piece of evidence with this one.
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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1244 » by jmr07019 » Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:15 pm

SMTBSI wrote:
jmr07019 wrote:The evidence is that they don't televise the drawing.

I counter that piece of evidence with this one.


Well I don't think the owners of Ernst & Young would risk their business reputation over the NBA lottery but I do think an employee of Ernst and Young would happily take a bride to look the other way. 2-3 brides and the guy is probably set for life and could care less about his day job
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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1245 » by Dave_From_NB » Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:19 pm

jmr07019 wrote:
SMTBSI wrote:
jmr07019 wrote:The evidence is that they don't televise the drawing.

I counter that piece of evidence with this one.


Well I don't think the owners of Ernst & Young would risk their business reputation over the NBA lottery but I do think an employee of Ernst and Young would happily take a bride to look the other way. 2-3 brides and the guy is probably set for life and could care less about his day job


Are these Russian Internet brides? Surely 1 of them would be enough, more than that is just plain greedy.
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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1246 » by jmr07019 » Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:22 pm

lol well played dave. it's been a looooong day for me
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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1247 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:50 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:Let's not kid ourselves folks. The Lakers are getting that 1st pick overall. Pretty sure that the sealed envelope with the Lakers logo in it is just sitting in Adam's inbox on his desk, waiting to be opened on lottery day.


The NBA draft conspiracy theory is the strangest of all conspiracy theories to me. Since the Ewing draft that spawned it, loser cities and franchises have won it almost exclusively. Cavs won the #1 pick five times, including Lebron. Orlando won 3 times, including the Webber and Shaq drafts. San Antonio lands both DRob and Duncan. New Orleans lands Anthony Davis. Towns to Minnesota. NJ, Milwaukee, Clippers all win twice.

Meanwhile, most of the high-profile teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Knicks etc always seem to slip.

Not a shred of evidence to support anything but the most bizarre of conspiracy theories, yet the myth sustains.


:lol: It's easy to make up conspiracy theories for any team that wins it. I just like saying it's rigged because it's the only way I can cope with how unlucky the Celtics have been (I'm looking at you 1997 and 2007 drafts!). I'm also saying that the Lakers will win it to mentally prepare myself in the unfortunate situation that they do (granted, Ben Simmons isn't turning that franchise around).

truth18 wrote:
Agree, and for the record, my comment (kiss the 2/3 pick goodbye) was regarding the general karma that tends to **** us in these things.

Fully expecting abstract forces to be against us, but there is no conspiracy here.


Man, if it's all about karma, then I'm fearful that the Celtics might never win the lottery due to our 17 championships. There's a long list of teams waiting in line to kick the Celtics' asses. :lol: Granted, some of that karma was paid back after the basketball gods took Len Bias, but still.....17 championships.
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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1248 » by peachbucket » Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:04 pm

jmr07019 wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
jmr07019 wrote:
The evidence is that they don't televise the drawing.


For what purpose?


to announce the winners of the lottery


This conspiracy theory makes no sense. If you are going to compromise the integrity of a process its usually for financial gain. How is it in the financial best interest of the NBA to put the biggest stars and consequently their best teams in the smallest markets??? Surely Duncan would have generated more revenue playing in New York or Boston then in San Antonio.

I mean if you want to believe in a conspiracy, then at least make sure the end result in beneficial to the conspirator.
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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1249 » by Crossy2008 » Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:35 pm

peachbucket wrote:
jmr07019 wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
For what purpose?


to announce the winners of the lottery


This conspiracy theory makes no sense. If you are going to compromise the integrity of a process its usually for financial gain. How is it in the financial best interest of the NBA to put the biggest stars and consequently their best teams in the smallest markets??? Surely Duncan would have generated more revenue playing in New York or Boston then in San Antonio.

I mean if you want to believe in a conspiracy, then at least make sure the end result in beneficial to the conspirator.


Well you could say that the big markets will always be big markets. The smaller markets could just as easily fail as they could succeed. It may be the case of raising the floor, which increases revenue for the league.

It would be very easy to rig the lottery, and nobody would ever know. I think they should do the whole process live. It would be exciting and mostly eliminate conspiracy theories. The challenge is after the first pick is revealed, they would have to reset everything so there would be no possible re-draws due to the same teams numbers coming up twice. Then they would have to reset things again for the third one. It would be a lot easier than it seems to make that happen. The downfall would be the first pick would be revealed first, but teams will still be sticking around to see if they get the second and third.
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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1250 » by MaxwellSmart » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:16 am

Crossy2008 wrote:
peachbucket wrote:
jmr07019 wrote:
to announce the winners of the lottery


This conspiracy theory makes no sense. If you are going to compromise the integrity of a process its usually for financial gain. How is it in the financial best interest of the NBA to put the biggest stars and consequently their best teams in the smallest markets??? Surely Duncan would have generated more revenue playing in New York or Boston then in San Antonio.

I mean if you want to believe in a conspiracy, then at least make sure the end result in beneficial to the conspirator.


Well you could say that the big markets will always be big markets. The smaller markets could just as easily fail as they could succeed. It may be the case of raising the floor, which increases revenue for the league.

It would be very easy to rig the lottery, and nobody would ever know. I think they should do the whole process live. It would be exciting and mostly eliminate conspiracy theories. The challenge is after the first pick is revealed, they would have to reset everything so there would be no possible re-draws due to the same teams numbers coming up twice. Then they would have to reset things again for the third one. It would be a lot easier than it seems to make that happen. The downfall would be the first pick would be revealed first, but teams will still be sticking around to see if they get the second and third.


I've always said this--and I'm not some conspiracy nut...The Switching of the balls right after the Practice drawing is a Huge Red Flag,...also assigning teams numbers in numerical order---should be random....they could easily have a couple heavier balls in the Locked Secured case (the balls blow upwards in the hopper)---with numbers that match the assigned numbers---to KEEP certain teams from winning it (perceived tanking,etc)...I dunno---something's fishy with the way they do it.
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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1251 » by 3pt % » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:58 am

I doubt the lottery is fixed now, although the frozen envelope scenario wouldn't surprise me.

I'm just excited to see how we go, a top pick in this draft and the C's are in a fanatically good position. Even an average pick will still make us the envy of the league.

And then we have two more years of Brooklyn picks to go...Oh Yeah!
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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1252 » by SMTBSI » Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:21 am

You know, I'm going to snip this post for a bit while I do a little more research to make sure my argument is solid.

It's not an end-of-the-world kind of debate, but I want to be 100% positive I actually know what I'm talking about before I go acting like I know what I'm talking about.
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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1253 » by jirrit » Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:06 pm

I love that the Brooklyn pick's still being 'watched'. Such a haul by DA.
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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1254 » by Edug27 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:20 pm

I do believe the lottery is influenced in some way shape or form. Even if it's minimal. I don't have any reasoning or logic, other than that the NBA is a business, and you do what's best for the business. I mean, Cavs getting Lebron, Bulls getting Rose, Pelicans getting Davis... I have a hard time believing marketable players like Simmons will wind up anywhere but a big market. Players like KAT and Wiggins are perfect for small market teams. They are good players, but not hugely marketable.

I mean, if I owned the league, I'm surely not letting Lebron go to Utah. No offense to Utah fans.
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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1255 » by truth18 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:23 pm

MaxwellSmart wrote:
Crossy2008 wrote:
peachbucket wrote:
This conspiracy theory makes no sense. If you are going to compromise the integrity of a process its usually for financial gain. How is it in the financial best interest of the NBA to put the biggest stars and consequently their best teams in the smallest markets??? Surely Duncan would have generated more revenue playing in New York or Boston then in San Antonio.

I mean if you want to believe in a conspiracy, then at least make sure the end result in beneficial to the conspirator.


Well you could say that the big markets will always be big markets. The smaller markets could just as easily fail as they could succeed. It may be the case of raising the floor, which increases revenue for the league.

It would be very easy to rig the lottery, and nobody would ever know. I think they should do the whole process live. It would be exciting and mostly eliminate conspiracy theories. The challenge is after the first pick is revealed, they would have to reset everything so there would be no possible re-draws due to the same teams numbers coming up twice. Then they would have to reset things again for the third one. It would be a lot easier than it seems to make that happen. The downfall would be the first pick would be revealed first, but teams will still be sticking around to see if they get the second and third.


I've always said this--and I'm not some conspiracy nut...The Switching of the balls right after the Practice drawing is a Huge Red Flag,...also assigning teams numbers in numerical order---should be random....they could easily have a couple heavier balls in the Locked Secured case (the balls blow upwards in the hopper)---with numbers that match the assigned numbers---to KEEP certain teams from winning it (perceived tanking,etc)...I dunno---something's fishy with the way they do it.


Is everyone going to keep ignoring SMTBSI?
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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1256 » by Banks2Pierce » Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:33 pm

SMTBSI wrote:
jmr07019 wrote:The evidence is that they don't televise the drawing.

I counter that piece of evidence with this one.


Haven't we found out that it's like two dudes from Ernst & Young? Of all of the counterpoints to the 'lottery is rigged' theory, I've always found that to be one of the flimsiest. The better evidence is the variance of who actually wins it. Small markets, big markets, Cleveland multiple times, etc. Gun to my head, I'm still saying it's at least been slightly tinkered with at least once in the history of the lotto, but much less likely in recent times.
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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1257 » by Envelope » Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:01 pm

All the big accounting firms are crooked. During the Enron scandal they prosecuted ALL of Arthur Anderson, the company as a whole, just so that it would go from Big 5 to Big 4 accounting firms.

Think about it, big companies and the super rich pay minimal taxes, or less. And the Big 4 accounting firms help them do it.

Also note how the "NBA Head of Security" is trotted out there, and it's always a black guy. It sends the message that if you doubt the NBA, and the head of NBA Security, you're racist.

Just listen to this scumbag lawyer, David Stern, when asked about the lottery:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73vGdCaC048[/youtube]

Now nepotism beneficiary Adam Silver wants to make NBA gambling more widespread, and then the new ads on jerseys.
One law firm runs every pro sports league in the country. Silver's dad was a partner, and was Stern's boss.

These guys are in the business of maximizing profit, not preserving the integrity of anything.
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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1258 » by Froob » Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:05 pm

To play devil's advocate to the lottery is rigged, you can make a conspiracy theory for every team that wins the lotto. I don't think it's rigged in today's NBA but, I wouldn't put it past them.
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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1259 » by SMTBSI » Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:48 pm

Envelope wrote:All the big accounting firms are crooked. During the Enron scandal they prosecuted ALL of Arthur Anderson, the company as a whole, just so that it would go from Big 5 to Big 4 accounting firms.

Think about it, big companies and the super rich pay minimal taxes, or less. And the Big 4 accounting firms help them do it.

So say I grant you this - that corruption is rampant and I can't put any faith in any of the parties involved at a personal level. Now I need a suspect, and a means, motive, and opportunity.

- Who is the suspect? The commissioner personally? Is he paying the bribes out of his own personal funds? The Board of Governors? Are all 30 NBA teams in on it? Some collection of people on this list? Propose to me a specific roster of conspirators that makes sense to you.

- The motive is supposedly "money". Money for whom? The single team that gets the top pick? Or do they crunch the numbers and decide that one particular team getting the top pick this year will help the health of all 30 teams the most overall? Or is the commissioner doing all this to line his own pockets, simply taking the largest bribe offered from a team in a given year? Just saying "money" isn't enough - who is actually benefiting, and what does that benefit profile look like?

Risk/reward also need to be accounted for in "motive". If the risk/reward profile is evidently, ludicrously bad (which it is), "motive" becomes a much harder sell. (See the linked article below, which does a good job making this point - a conspiracy on this level could destroy the NBA, and take down a lot of people, so you'd better be pretty darned positive that giving AD to New Orleans or Lebron to Cleveland is worth it.)

- Means: magnetizing the ping pong balls, or similar. Watch the 2014 lotto here and 2015 here. I don't find that plausible, but this is probably the easiest bullet point to come up with something for.

- Opportunity: In a small room, just feet in front of reps of the 14 lotto teams, reps from E&Y, and 5 members of the media; recorded and then put online for anyone to watch who cares to.



Matt Moore wrote:Let's say for a minute that the NBA decided this was a good idea. How would they go about it? Well, for starters, they wouldn't just do it. They would commission an internal report outlining the pros and cons of perpetrating a massive conspiracy on the public while also violating several tenets of fair practice in its relationships with the owners of the other 29 teams. Now, they would need for that report to indicate that the benefit of providing a first-round draft pick that could just as easily turn out to be a bust as a Hall of Famer outweighs the potential for public humiliation and rejection of their product, lawsuits from their owners and possibly the violation of federal law.

Yeah, that definitely sounds worth it.

So assuming that report comes back with that magical conclusion, which it would not, they'd have to go about putting it into effect. Easy enough. Magnetize the ping pong balls, however you want to do it, getting the balls to pop up is easy. Of course, they don't have complete control over this, the process is overseen by the accounting firm of Ernst and Young, which if brought in on the scam, would also be liable for whatever consequences the reveal of the vast, dark conspiracy would hold. But hey, they're laywers, let's say that works.

Then all they have to do is manage to perpetrate the fraud without alerting the other owners or by bringing them in on it, and then make sure that the hundred or so people who would have to be involved in this process don't leak it. You know, this from the same league that can't keep its voting, officiating, or front office decisions under wraps.

That sounds likely. Wait, did I say likely? I meant completely and totally implausible in any scenario.
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Re: Official BKN-DAL Pick Watch Thread 2016 Season [3.0] 

Post#1260 » by SMTBSI » Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:53 pm

Banks2Pierce wrote:
SMTBSI wrote:
jmr07019 wrote:The evidence is that they don't televise the drawing.

I counter that piece of evidence with this one.


Haven't we found out that it's like two dudes from Ernst & Young? Of all of the counterpoints to the 'lottery is rigged' theory, I've always found that to be one of the flimsiest.

And yet, it's a much stronger point of evidence than "they don't televise the drawing".

Especially when you can watch the 2014 and the 2015 drawings online.


Banks2Pierce wrote:Gun to my head, I'm still saying it's at least been slightly tinkered with at least once in the history of the lotto, but much less likely in recent times.

I am much less confident about the statement "the NBA lottery has never been manipulated in its history".

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