"WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2

[greenroom31]

Maybe I just haven't been reading closely enough but one guy I haven't seen much talk about is Jamal Murray. He's a great shooter, young, good size for a SG, athletic. Seems he is getting overlooked, and would likely be better than Buddy Hield if he played 4 years in college. I bet he ends up in the 3-6 range.

He has been projected as a top 6 prospect all year by most draft sites.

Murray isn't the ball handler some thought he would be this year, but he was great as an off ball shooter. Running around picks and shooting or attacking the closeout, he did it extremely well for his age. His defense is questionable though, so top 6/7 seems fair to me.

I was talking about on this board, not on draft sites. We've discussed Dunn, Hield, Bender, Brown ad nauseum, but I'm curious to hear people's thoughts about Murray. Thanks for your thoughts on his handle and defense. I'd suggest that perhaps his role at Kentucky could have something to do with his ball handling, and as a freshman clearly he's not even close to a finished product. With his athleticism and length I'd like to think he has the ability to defend.

[ryaningf]

I'd be all about trading with Minny for the 5 pick(if they get it) and turning Smart +16 for Dunn. Marcus Smart's defensive superiority is marginal relative to the vast offensive discrepancy between the two.

However, I have a strong suspicion(which I will try to verify) that Boston will pitch Chicago a Smart + 16 + 23 deal for Butler on or before the draft. There's only 1 player they'll give up that BKN pick for and he'll require Jae Crowder, so i'm doubting there resolve in doing it.

Ohhhh...I like what you're cooking up, Bill. I'm down with either deal. Dunn has been one of my favorites for the last couple years, he's like Rondo if Rondo was bigger, stronger, more athletic, and actually enjoyed shooting/scoring. In other words, he's got all the Rondo creativity, defensive prowess, and rebounding ability, and also scores well. People keep questioning whether he's a 1 or a 2 but I don't see the question as legit at all, he's a pure point with the body and scoring ability to do some things at shooting guard if needed. Could mix and match him with any guard currently on our roster.

There's only 1 player they'll give up that BKN pick for and he'll require Jae Crowder, so i'm doubting there resolve in doing it.

But who's this mystery guy? We're not going down the Love hole again are we? Please, God, no. I like Kevin Love but can't take a 3rd straight summer of speculation.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

I'd be all about trading with Minny for the 5 pick(if they get it) and turning Smart +16 for Dunn. Marcus Smart's defensive superiority is marginal relative to the vast offensive discrepancy between the two.

However, I have a strong suspicion(which I will try to verify) that Boston will pitch Chicago a Smart + 16 + 23 deal for Butler on or before the draft. There's only 1 player they'll give up that BKN pick for and he'll require Jae Crowder, so i'm doubting there resolve in doing it.

Ohhhh...I like what you're cooking up, Bill. I'm down with either deal. Dunn has been one of my favorites for the last couple years, he's like Rondo if Rondo was bigger, stronger, more athletic, and actually enjoyed shooting/scoring. In other words, he's got all the Rondo creativity, defensive prowess, and rebounding ability, and also scores well. People keep questioning whether he's a 1 or a 2 but I don't see the question as legit at all, he's a pure point with the body and scoring ability to do some things at shooting guard if needed. Could mix and match him with any guard currently on our roster.

There's only 1 player they'll give up that BKN pick for and he'll require Jae Crowder, so i'm doubting there resolve in doing it.

But who's this mystery guy? We're not going down the Love hole again are we? Please, God, no. I like Kevin Love but can't take a 3rd straight summer of speculation.

Blake?

[ryaningf]

I was talking about on this board, not on draft sites. We've discussed Dunn, Hield, Bender, Brown ad nauseum, but I'm curious to hear people's thoughts about Murray. Thanks for your thoughts on his handle and defense. I'd suggest that perhaps his role at Kentucky could have something to do with his ball handling, and as a freshman clearly he's not even close to a finished product. With his athleticism and length I'd like to think he has the ability to defend.

I have him as my #5, right behind Dunn/Bender/Simmons/Ingram.

I think he's a bit like Brandon Roy, minus the knee trouble but also shorter. Can create his own shot, create shots for others, not the most athletic guy around but athletic enough. He'll go as far as his footwork and work ethic take him. He could be a PG on the right team, I like him more as a SG/SF. Will be very interested in how his measurements come out, he's about 1 to 1.5 inches shorter than ideal.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I'd be all about trading with Minny for the 5 pick(if they get it) and turning Smart +16 for Dunn. Marcus Smart's defensive superiority is marginal relative to the vast offensive discrepancy between the two.

However, I have a strong suspicion(which I will try to verify) that Boston will pitch Chicago a Smart + 16 + 23 deal for Butler on or before the draft. There's only 1 player they'll give up that BKN pick for and he'll require Jae Crowder, so i'm doubting there resolve in doing it.

Ohhhh...I like what you're cooking up, Bill. I'm down with either deal. Dunn has been one of my favorites for the last couple years, he's like Rondo if Rondo was bigger, stronger, more athletic, and actually enjoyed shooting/scoring. In other words, he's got all the Rondo creativity, defensive prowess, and rebounding ability, and also scores well. People keep questioning whether he's a 1 or a 2 but I don't see the question as legit at all, he's a pure point with the body and scoring ability to do some things at shooting guard if needed. Could mix and match him with any guard currently on our roster.

There's only 1 player they'll give up that BKN pick for and he'll require Jae Crowder, so i'm doubting there resolve in doing it.

But who's this mystery guy? We're not going down the Love hole again are we? Please, God, no. I like Kevin Love but can't take a 3rd straight summer of speculation.

I assume BKN/Crowder would be a package for Cousins..

Smart/16 for 5 I could live with.. I think Philly could end up trading down, though, to get Dunn.. Like 2 for 5/Shabazz..

Smart/16/23 for Butler is a nice consolidation move, too.. But are we really then going to have an IT/Bradley/Butler backcourt? There'd have to be follow-up deals..

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

I doubt that Smart + 16 gets you anywhere near Minnesota's 5th.
Frankly, they are going to be more interested in Bradley + 16th - that deal is more likely to occur
and seems equitable for both teams.

[greenroom31]

Maybe I just haven't been reading closely enough but one guy I haven't seen much talk about is Jamal Murray. He's a great shooter, young, good size for a SG, athletic. Seems he is getting overlooked, and would likely be better than Buddy Hield if he played 4 years in college. I bet he ends up in the 3-6 range.

He has been projected as a top 6 prospect all year by most draft sites.

Murray isn't the ball handler some thought he would be this year, but he was great as an off ball shooter. Running around picks and shooting or attacking the closeout, he did it extremely well for his age. His defense is questionable though, so top 6/7 seems fair to me.

I will up the ante on my prediction since it wasn't bold enough. I think he will be the 3rd best player from this draft and will go top 4.

[Envelope]

Here's a game from last summer between Poeltl's Austria and Sabonis' Lithuania. Somebody in the draft forum posted it, and noted that at Utah Poeltl was used almost exclusively in the post, without many pick and rolls and pick and pops run for him at all. Poeltl has great athleticism and he's going to be a major weapon in the pick and roll in the NBA, kind of like an all star version of Tyler Zeller, with a lot more length and rim protection on defense.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM97r_I33lU&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

Recall opening night when Zeller got killed by Okafor. Last time Poeltl played Okafor he held Okafor to 6 points.

[Andrew McCeltic]

From the little I know, I'm very ok with picking up Poetl in the late single digits of the lottery by trade.. like Bradley to TOR, Poeltl to BOS.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Most likely we drop to 4 or 5, miss the guy we really want (Brown, Dunn, whoever) by a pick, take Hield, then trade Avery Bradley for a late lottery pick (Utah's 11th?) to draft a reliable stiff like Poeltl.

That still gives us room to throw a max at someone like Horford and dangle the BKN '18, Young, Smart, Olynyk etc. for another star.

Odds are whatever happens will be anti-climactic.

[return2glory]

Tonight's game is exactly why I want Buddy Hield.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Lots of do-everything college scorers struggle with the transition to the pros- Adam Morrison is one. No one has convinced me yet that Hield is in the Lillard/Curry mold..

[return2glory]

Lots of do-everything college scorers struggle with the transition to the pros- Adam Morrison is one. No one has convinced me yet that Hield is in the Lillard/Curry mold..

I'm one of the few people that said Morrison would be a bust. Hield is no Adam Morrison.

[Andrew McCeltic]

So what's the difference? It's not a direct comparison, but why do you think Hield's scoring and shot creation will transfer to the pros?

[Kolkmania]

Maybe I just haven't been reading closely enough but one guy I haven't seen much talk about is Jamal Murray. He's a great shooter, young, good size for a SG, athletic. Seems he is getting overlooked, and would likely be better than Buddy Hield if he played 4 years in college. I bet he ends up in the 3-6 range.

He has been projected as a top 6 prospect all year by most draft sites.

Murray isn't the ball handler some thought he would be this year, but he was great as an off ball shooter. Running around picks and shooting or attacking the closeout, he did it extremely well for his age. His defense is questionable though, so top 6/7 seems fair to me.

I was talking about on this board, not on draft sites. We've discussed Dunn, Hield, Bender, Brown ad nauseum, but I'm curious to hear people's thoughts about Murray. Thanks for your thoughts on his handle and defense. I'd suggest that perhaps his role at Kentucky could have something to do with his ball handling, and as a freshman clearly he's not even close to a finished product. With his athleticism and length I'd like to think he has the ability to defend.

They tried Murray at the 1 at the beginning of the season, but he was horrible with the ball in his hands. With Ulis' playmaking Murray was free to run beautifully around the picks and flourished. It depends how you categorize athleticism, Murray is a decent leaper, but his lateral quickness is poor. However, with this roster every player that is able to hit a three is welcome.

I'll throw a name in, Timothe Luwawu. Athletic wing that shoots the 3. With his size he has potential and quickness he could become a great 3&D, who occasionally creates something for himself. Danny Ainge proved with Rozier last year that he is willing to take a risk, if the Nets pick falls out of the top 2, he could be a serious option.

[Mr Loggins]

Lots of do-everything college scorers struggle with the transition to the pros- Adam Morrison is one. No one has convinced me yet that Hield is in the Lillard/Curry mold..

I'm one of the few people that said Morrison would be a bust. Hield is no Adam Morrison.

Hield reminds me of Sahwn Respert, of MSU back in the day

[SmartWentCrazy]

Murray reminds me of a PG/SG version of a young Pierce (who was multipositional as well at SG/SF). He has great footwork, is very crafty, but will never impress anyone with his athleticism. He's a decent ball handler and can create his own shot. Can play the 1 in small doses, but is a 2 long term.

He was the first 20ppg scorer on a Calipari team since Dejuan Wagner, a feat that's more impressive given his slow start. The guy dominated during SEC play (PER around 27, IIRC). He was legs were gassed during the NCAA tourny, and his jumper was off, but the guy is a great talent and I'm very high on him if our pick drops.

[greenroom31]

They tried Murray at the 1 at the beginning of the season, but he was horrible with the ball in his hands. With Ulis' playmaking Murray was free to run beautifully around the picks and flourished. It depends how you categorize athleticism, Murray is a decent leaper, but his lateral quickness is poor. However, with this roster every player that is able to hit a three is welcome.

I'll throw a name in, Timothe Luwawu. Athletic wing that shoots the 3. With his size he has potential and quickness he could become a great 3&D, who occasionally creates something for himself. Danny Ainge proved with Rozier last year that he is willing to take a risk, if the Nets pick falls out of the top 2, he could be a serious option.

Thanks for the info on Murray -- I watched him in maybe 3 games all year (I'm in NC so college ball is 99% ACC here) but it seemed like Ulis was dominating the ball most of the time. Didn't realize he had a chance to run PG at the start of the season.

As for Luwawu I won't even pretend to know more about him than is available at Draftexpress/NBAdraft.net. He seems like an intriguing prospect, but I had thought about him as more of an option at #16 in the group with all the young PFs (Rabb, Davis, Chriss, etc.) I actually really like having a pick in that range this year as there's a bunch of guys who seem like they'll be available there (at least according to draft sites) that can be good role players or even starters. In addition to the group above, Valentine seems like a guy with the potential to help a team right away.

[greenroom31]

The guy I'm most scared of the Celtics drafting is Dunn. I watched him several times last year and was never particularly impressed by his handle or his shot, and he's 22 (almost as old as Hield) so that has to factor into his potential. At #16 I'd say go for it but in the early lottery... I just can't see him being a star. Jaylen Brown is the other guy who scares me a bit but at least he's young (19) and has more size.

I mean in truth I'd just like to trade the pick (really MOST of our picks) but if we end up using it I hope we get top 3 and end up with Ingram, Simmons or Murray. After that at least we know Hield can shoot it... and Bender's a project but with his size, seems like the type of high risk/high reward play you make if you believe he can pay off.

[brackdan70]

what we really need is a guy who can play well in the first quarter.