2016-17 UW Badger Basketball Discussion Thread

Post #1 » by **MickeyDavis** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:55 pm

Although his shooting numbers fell off dramatically last season, particularly in Wisconsin's four post-season games, junior Nigel Hayes has decided to enter the 2016 NBA draft.

Hayes will not sign with an agent, however, meaning he can withdraw his name and return to UW for his senior season.

A source close to the program confirmed Hayes' move, which was expected and first reported by Adrian Wojnarowski @TheVertical.

The NBA draft combine is set to be held May 11 through May 15 in Chicago. Hayes, who has yet to receive an invitation to the combine, will have until May 25 to decide if he wants to remain in the draft. The draft is set for June 23.

UW head coach Greg Gard said earlier this month he planned to submit Hayes' name to the NBA Undergraduate Advisory Committee.

The latest move comes with no risk to Hayes, though his draft stock has dropped since the beginning of the season.

Hayes this week is not listed on the mock drafts compiled by DraftExpress and nbadraft.net.

Hayes as a sophomore made 39.6% of his three-pointers and 50.2% of his field-goal attempts overall. He averaged 12.4 points and 4.5 rebounds per game.

Hayes last season averaged 15.7 points and 5.8 rebounds per game but he made just 29.3% of his three-pointers and 36.8% of his field-goal attempts overall.

Hayes didn't shoot well in any of UW's four post-season games, including three in the NCAA Tournament.

He made just 2 of 21 three-point attempts (9.5%) and 11 of 54 field-goal attempts overall (20.4%).

UW's season ended with a 61-56 loss to Notre Dame in the Sweet 16 of the NCAA Tournament. Hayes, who hit 4 of 12 shots and had six turnovers in the loss, said then he planned to explore the draft process.

"I guess I just have to talk it over with the inner-circle," he said at the time. "Who knows what can happen?"

He added, however, his mother wanted to see him return to school to obtain his degree.

"Her stance is always finish school," Hayes said. "So that will always be what she says. We'll have to see what happens from here."

Badgerlander · Post #2 » by **Badgerlander** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:58 pm

I'd be pretty surprised if Hayes stays in the draft, I can't imagine a team making him a promise with all of the other players out there

Ron Swanson · Post #3 » by **Ron Swanson** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:01 pm

Probably should have came out last year in hindsight. Best that he stays for his senior year now. There's just way too many players in the 20-40 range that are better prospects.

jakecronus8 · Post #4 » by **jakecronus8** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:04 pm

I think he ends up one of those idiots that comes out and goes undrafted. He despises the NCAA and I don't think he'd be particularly torn up if he had to go play in Europe. I'd say tough blow to the program, but I'm not so sure it may not be addition by subtraction despite the talent.

MartyConlonOnTheRun · Post #5 » by **MartyConlonOnTheRun** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:15 pm

jakecronus8 wrote:I think he ends up one of those idiots that comes out and goes undrafted. He despises the NCAA and I don't think he'd be particularly torn up if he had to go play in Europe. I'd say tough blow to the program, but I'm not so sure it may not be addition by subtraction despite the talent.

I guess why do we automatically label a guy an idiot for leaving early if they don't get drafted? Was Vander Blue an idiot for leaving Marquette 2 years ago? He never got drafted nor signed a guaranteed contract in the NBA. He did get a call up and at least made some money traveling the US. Just because we as fans are disappointed that he kind of went away, it wasn't a bad career choice. If either him or Hayes actually want the degree, they could've 1. got it in three years, 2. always go back for it.

I guess I don't see why Hayes would be an idiot if he makes 70K(?) playing in Europe next year versus nothing leading the Badgers to a final four. I don't see his draft stock rising anymore as a 22-year-old senior with no jump shot.

jakecronus8 · Post #6 » by **jakecronus8** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:31 pm

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:
jakecronus8 wrote:I think he ends up one of those idiots that comes out and goes undrafted. He despises the NCAA and I don't think he'd be particularly torn up if he had to go play in Europe. I'd say tough blow to the program, but I'm not so sure it may not be addition by subtraction despite the talent.

I guess why do we automatically label a guy an idiot for leaving early if they don't get drafted? Was Vander Blue an idiot for leaving Marquette 2 years ago? He never got drafted nor signed a guaranteed contract in the NBA. He did get a call up and at least made some money traveling the US. Just because we as fans are disappointed that he kind of went away, it wasn't a bad career choice. If either him or Hayes actually want the degree, they could've 1. got it in three years, 2. always go back for it.

I guess I don't see why Hayes would be an idiot if he makes 70K(?) playing in Europe next year versus nothing leading the Badgers to a final four. I don't see his draft stock rising anymore as a 22-year-old senior with no jump shot.

I don't know him, but personality wise he seems like the guy that thinks he's a first rounder and goes undrafted. Just an opinion.

skones · Post #7 » by **skones** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:33 pm

jakecronus8 wrote:I think he ends up one of those idiots that comes out and goes undrafted. He despises the NCAA and I don't think he'd be particularly torn up if he had to go play in Europe. I'd say tough blow to the program, but I'm not so sure it may not be addition by subtraction despite the talent.

Nigel Hayes is not an idiot.

Ridiculous that he should despise the NCAA given it's common opinion that the NCAA is a total joke with the money they pull in year after year.

You say addition by subtraction, I say fundamental misunderstanding.

He'll be back unless he's invited to the combine and somehow shoots up boards. I have a hard time seeing the measurements he had at the Pan American games last year getting substantially better, so I don't see much reason for a rise. Testing the waters without an agent is a smart move.

HaroldinGMinor · Post #8 » by **HaroldinGMinor** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:27 pm

jakecronus8 wrote:I think he ends up one of those idiots that comes out and goes undrafted. He despises the NCAA and I don't think he'd be particularly torn up if he had to go play in Europe. I'd say tough blow to the program, but I'm not so sure it may not be addition by subtraction despite the talent.

Well he didn't hire an agent so...

Post #9 » by **humanrefutation** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:37 pm

With the way the system is structured now, I'd always declare for the draft just in case you're able to wow some team at the combine. Beforehand, early entrants had to withdraw pretty early - like in April. Now, they don't have to withdraw until June 13 - ten days before the draft. That's a lot of time to explore your options and get good feedback. At the very least, it prepares you for what you can expect next year.

UWM_Brew_Buck · Post #10 » by **UWM_Brew_Buck** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:56 pm

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:
jakecronus8 wrote:I think he ends up one of those idiots that comes out and goes undrafted. He despises the NCAA and I don't think he'd be particularly torn up if he had to go play in Europe. I'd say tough blow to the program, but I'm not so sure it may not be addition by subtraction despite the talent.

I guess why do we automatically label a guy an idiot for leaving early if they don't get drafted? Was Vander Blue an idiot for leaving Marquette 2 years ago? He never got drafted nor signed a guaranteed contract in the NBA. He did get a call up and at least made some money traveling the US. Just because we as fans are disappointed that he kind of went away, it wasn't a bad career choice. If either him or Hayes actually want the degree, they could've 1. got it in three years, 2. always go back for it.

I guess I don't see why Hayes would be an idiot if he makes 70K(?) playing in Europe next year versus nothing leading the Badgers to a final four. I don't see his draft stock rising anymore as a 22-year-old senior with no jump shot.

If he goes undrafted there is no where to go but up. If Hayes improves his shot his senior season I think he easily gets drafted.

I think for the most part that any player that leaves early and goes undrafted has made a bad decision. They are forgoing a chance at making 70k overseas one year early to get a chance at NBA money if they have a good senior season. For example does someone like Alondo Tucker get drafted in the first round if he leaves early? He made $3M by playing 400+ minutes in the NBA.

On the flip side I also think if a college player is a first rounder they should be entering the draft no matter what year they are. Of course there are cases where it makes sense to stay to improve their draft stock but most guys should not pass up a chance at guaranteed millions.

Bernman · Post #11 » by **Bernman** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:26 pm

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:I guess why do we automatically label a guy an idiot for leaving early if they don't get drafted? Was Vander Blue an idiot for leaving Marquette 2 years ago? He never got drafted nor signed a guaranteed contract in the NBA. He did get a call up and at least made some money traveling the US. Just because we as fans are disappointed that he kind of went away, it wasn't a bad career choice. If either him or Hayes actually want the degree, they could've 1. got it in three years, 2. always go back for it.

I guess I don't see why Hayes would be an idiot if he makes 70K(?) playing in Europe next year versus nothing leading the Badgers to a final four. I don't see his draft stock rising anymore as a 22-year-old senior with no jump shot.

It doesn't help your case invoking Vander Blue. Yes, he was an idiot.

Nigel, however, is not. So I'd imagine he returns no matter how much he despises the NCAA. They still have a utility for him even though they are exploitative of people like him. Shouldn't let emotions get in the way of what's best for his future. If/when he returns he almost inevitably improves his stock, to guarantee himself millions unless disaster happens, and gets his degree in the process as a fallback and for after his playing days. Frank and Hield benefited greatly from returning for their senior years, and they were in considerably better positions than he is right now after their junior seasons.

Kerb Hohl · Post #12 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:50 pm

Hayes will have a jump shot contrary to what was inferred by Conlon. You don't shoot that well for 2 years and then suddenly lose it to never get it back again. He was messing with his form last year and that totally messed him up.

Is he/will he be an NBA caliber guy outside of that? No idea anymore.

MikeIsGood · Post #13 » by **MikeIsGood** » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:34 am

B10 continues to swim in a stupid amount of cash (no lines drawn to Hayes intentionally). 25 football and 50 basketball games (considered 50% of "national games") will be aired on on Fox/FS1 over the next 6 years. B10 makes a cool $1.5B. Billion with a B.

PkrsBcksGphsMqt · Post #14 » by **PkrsBcksGphsMqt** » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:52 am

MikeIsGood wrote:B10 continues to swim in a stupid amount of cash (no lines drawn to Hayes intentionally). 25 football and 50 basketball games (considered 50% of "national games") will be aired on on Fox/FS1 over the next 6 years. B10 makes a cool $1.5B. Billion with a B.

Yeah when I first saw that my jaw dropped a little bit. They'll be making $250 million a year for half the games. I believe their last contract, for all of the games, was $100 million a year. Pretty incredible. B1G will really win if they can get a similar dollar amount from ESPN for the other half. $500 million a year and exposure on both the mothership and the Fox networks.

RiotPunch · Post #15 » by **RiotPunch** » Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:56 am

MikeIsGood wrote:B10 continues to swim in a stupid amount of cash (no lines drawn to Hayes intentionally). 25 football and 50 basketball games (considered 50% of "national games") will be aired on on Fox/FS1 over the next 6 years. B10 makes a cool $1.5B. Billion with a B.

midranger · Post #16 » by **midranger** » Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:03 am

I thought I read that the fox deal was for the less desirable half games. The ESPN or nbc deal could be larger, though I'm sure ESPN will be cautious of stepping on the sec's toes to give the big ten a huge deal. None of this includes BTN which is a sweet plum in and of itself.

Could end up being something like a 6 year, 5 billion dollar type television take

DingleJerry · Post #17 » by **DingleJerry** » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:33 pm

ESPN currently air tons of B1G games. No reason to think they won't continue, although ESPN is in a bad financial spot due to overpaying for rights in the past, so they might try to not overdo it this time.

Turk Nowitzki · Post #18 » by **Turk Nowitzki** » Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:04 am

News came out last week I think that we offered PG D'Mitrik Trice, he is visiting this weekend. The surprise is that his teammate Aleem Ford is visiting as well and also got an offer tonight. He's a 6'7" SF type so he must've impressed somebody because I thought we were all set to for sure save at least one of those scholarships for the '17 or '18 classes.

midranger · Post #19 » by **midranger** » Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:15 am

BadgersBucks wrote:ESPN currently air tons of B1G games. No reason to think they won't continue, although ESPN is in a bad financial spot due to overpaying for rights in the past, so they might try to not overdo it this time.

II guess my thought is; with ESPN's relationship with the SEC and their constant pimping of the SEC over the B10, how do they offer the B10 a sweeter deal than the SEC and have it be well received politically? They'll have to offer a better deal with the B10 if they want to retain them. They are in a bit of a sticky spot with that one.

DingleJerry · Post #20 » by **DingleJerry** » Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:45 pm

Didn't say it would be a better deal. And even if it is that's just inflation, when SEC re-ups it will be bigger. The SEC thing with ESPN is overhyped, ESPN owns a chunk of the SEC network like Fox does with B1G. Who airs the biggest SEC game of the week though at 2:30, not ESPN/ABC. Whereas the B1G in the past has only been ESPN/ABC and the B1G Network, they literally air all of our big games, crap games go on the B1G.. B1G would also be stupid to go away from their current setup with ESPN that gives them so much exposure all day on Saturday. You don't want to be relegated to the FS1 or CBSsports networks that no one knows where they are and sometimes don't even have in their basic packages.

Don't get me wrong, they push their SEC is better than everyone agenda like crazy. But let's be real, are they wrong? What are they supposed to do, lie and act like Northwestern is as good Ole Miss. In most years 5 or 6 of the 10 best teams are in the SEC. The bias comes in that the SEC doesn't' play by the same rules as everyone else with their paying players and no academics. And they just have an inherent recruiting advantage living in warm weather areas, where the best athletes tend to live already. Most kids picks schools within their region and kids from the south don't want to play in the north unless they have to. So it's kind of like, yea no crap you're better, you'd have to be morons not to be better.