"WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2

[return2glory]

Well it is 4/20....


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I don't do drugs.

Your never to old to start...

I'm young. This board is something else.

Drugs are not my thing.

[threrf23]

Lots of do-everything college scorers struggle with the transition to the pros- Adam Morrison is one. No one has convinced me yet that Hield is in the Lillard/Curry mold..

I'm one of the few people that said Morrison would be a bust. Hield is no Adam Morrison.

Morrison was perhaps one of the easiest players ever for me to spot as a bust. He wasn't athletic enough given his other attributes and he didn't even shoot that well in college for a player who was supposed to be a shooter. Played 3 years of college bball and never shot above 77.2% from the free throw line. Only once shot above 40% from 3. He also had type 1 diabetes which makes it tougher.

Adam Morrison wasn't really a good outside shooter until after he turned 21. Hield's overall career curve is more linear than Morrison's and if nothing else he would appear to be a better shooter than Morrison ever was. He is also a fierce competitor whose demeanor seems comparable to Paul Pierce's at quick glance, whereas Morrison lied down at center court and cried for his mommy after getting eliminated from the NCAA tourney.

I don't see Lillard/Curry but Michael Redd makes a good comp on paper.

[Murta]

They tried Murray at the 1 at the beginning of the season, but he was horrible with the ball in his hands. With Ulis' playmaking Murray was free to run beautifully around the picks and flourished. It depends how you categorize athleticism, Murray is a decent leaper, but his lateral quickness is poor. However, with this roster every player that is able to hit a three is welcome.

Thanks for the info on Murray -- I watched him in maybe 3 games all year (I'm in NC so college ball is 99% ACC here) but it seemed like Ulis was dominating the ball most of the time. Didn't realize he had a chance to run PG at the start of the season.

No problem. It were only a couple of games, they handed the keys to Ulis early if I remember correctly. This draft has a clear top 2 (Ingram, Simmons), after these players I can't see that much difference in terms of talent between #3 and #20. Agree with your opinion of Valentine, he does not excel at one thing, but does everything well. I really appreciate good decision makers and he definitely is one.

Lemme join the Murray lovefest. At the start of the season, UK did look horrible with him as PG. I remember someone on Twitter mentioning that UK is going to regret not having Harrison brothers anymore, which tells you how bad it had been. Since moving him off the ball, Murray has been terrific.
Murray is a guy who can shoot it really well, has the size and athleticism to guard any SG, can move off the ball as good as anybody and can do some things with the ball in his hands. His defense leaves a lot to be desired at this point, but there's enough potential for him to be a good defender, not the All-defense type of player, but also not the guy who will be exploited in any way.
When I think of what type of player he can be, Reggie Miller's career averages of 18-3-3 on 47% FG% and 39% from 3 seem like a realistic expectation for what he can do in his best seasons. Their style of play is very similar.
I don't expect him to be a 20+ point scorer (it's not out of reach, but it's tough to expect) that Miller was in his best years, but that's OK.
You can also compare him to JJ Redick who will play better defense than JJ and thus be able to play more and score more. Although it's tough to say he'll be as efficient from 3 as Redick was this season because this was historic.

All in all, I like what Murray can do and I have him as clear-cut #4 on my board. To my mind, he's probably closer to Bender at #3 than the group of players after him.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I'm one of the few people that said Morrison would be a bust. Hield is no Adam Morrison.

Morrison was perhaps one of the easiest players ever for me to spot as a bust. He wasn't athletic enough given his other attributes and he didn't even shoot that well in college for a player who was supposed to be a shooter. Played 3 years of college bball and never shot above 77.2% from the free throw line. Only once shot above 40% from 3. He also had type 1 diabetes which makes it tougher.

Adam Morrison wasn't really a good outside shooter until after he turned 21. Hield's overall career curve is more linear than Morrison's and if nothing else he would appear to be a better shooter than Morrison ever was. He is also a fierce competitor whose demeanor seems comparable to Paul Pierce's at quick glance, whereas Morrison lied down at center court and cried for his mommy after getting eliminated from the NCAA tourney.

I don't see Lillard/Curry but Michael Redd makes a good comp on paper.

Redd was 6'6.. Hield, pre-combine, is 6'4. Could be a little under.

I like the Pierce comparison not just for his demeanor but his inventiveness on offense, though he's more quick footwork where Pierce was more ball fakes and changes in momentum.

Wasn't bringing up Lillard/Curry, or Morrison as direct comparisons, more to ask about what tier he's in, whether his offense will translate.

I thought of Reddick, but J.J. was a little more of a spot-up guy with questions about athleticism even in college.

The big question for me isn't whether Hield can get his shot off but whether he can create for himself off the dribble and finish in traffic like he did in college. We saw with Marcus Smart how those things are much easier to do against inferior competition.

Either Hield is an instant superstar or he's two years away from being a rich man's Avery Bradley on offense..

So many trade scenarios, too, this draft is going to be crazy. My first choice is still to get Cousins or Okafor in a trade.. We also don't know for a month if we're picking 1st or 6th.

I think you have to take Simmons or Ingram at 1 unless Cousins is available in trade. After that, all bets are off. I like Hield and Dunn, Jaylen Brown and Poetl a little bit after that, Skall/Rabb/Sabonis/Zizic are my current next tier, and one of those could last till 16.

Butler, Okafor, Cousins are the best trade targets with the Brooklyn pick.

Also an off-chance we get 1, Philly gets stuck with 3 or 4 again and uses Noel as a chip to move up.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Just from eyeballing highlights, my gut says Hield has the skill to get into the lane and finish in the pros, but may not have the length. That's a different case than Smart, though, who just bullyballed people to lay it up at the rim.

[Andrew McCeltic]

OJ Mayo, Rip Hamilton, Ben Gordon are comps to put in the mix for Hield, too..

[Andrew McCeltic]

I'd also be happy to take a flyer on Skal at 16, or trade up to get him a little earlier. His athletic stats are near identical to Amare's, his mental game like Kwame Brown's- and as much as we all respect Calipari as a college coach, even great coaches can misread players and then break their confidence. I'd feel way more comfortable with Brad Stevens developing Labissiere.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Here's Skal against LSU in early March, 18 and 8 with 6 blocks.. Looks like a number one pick.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtnyG6TMO4Q[/youtube]

[Andrew McCeltic]

Thanks for the info on Murray -- I watched him in maybe 3 games all year (I'm in NC so college ball is 99% ACC here) but it seemed like Ulis was dominating the ball most of the time. Didn't realize he had a chance to run PG at the start of the season.

No problem. It were only a couple of games, they handed the keys to Ulis early if I remember correctly. This draft has a clear top 2 (Ingram, Simmons), after these players I can't see that much difference in terms of talent between #3 and #20. Agree with your opinion of Valentine, he does not excel at one thing, but does everything well. I really appreciate good decision makers and he definitely is one.

Lemme join the Murray lovefest. At the start of the season, UK did look horrible with him as PG. I remember someone on Twitter mentioning that UK is going to regret not having Harrison brothers anymore, which tells you how bad it had been. Since moving him off the ball, Murray has been terrific.
Murray is a guy who can shoot it really well, has the size and athleticism to guard any SG, can move off the ball as good as anybody and can do some things with the ball in his hands. His defense leaves a lot to be desired at this point, but there's enough potential for him to be a good defender, not the All-defense type of player, but also not the guy who will be exploited in any way.
When I think of what type of player he can be, Reggie Miller's career averages of 18-3-3 on 47% FG% and 39% from 3 seem like a realistic expectation for what he can do in his best seasons. Their style of play is very similar.
I don't expect him to be a 20+ point scorer (it's not out of reach, but it's tough to expect) that Miller was in his best years, but that's OK.
You can also compare him to JJ Redick who will play better defense than JJ and thus be able to play more and score more. Although it's tough to say he'll be as efficient from 3 as Redick was this season because this was historic.

All in all, I like what Murray can do and I have him as clear-cut #4 on my board. To my mind, he's probably closer to Bender at #3 than the group of players after him.

I'm finally starting to research this draft, and I like Murray more than Hield right now.. Murray looks like the player everyone thought Austin Rivers might be. Really paces himself well on the court, looks like Joe Johnson that way (who eventually became a 20ppg guy).

[Andrew McCeltic]

Lots of guys who look like they have a chance to be major scorers in the NBA, Kris Dunn, too.. Could take him, trade Smart for Noel..

But last year's draft was the center draft, when we desperately needed one- but Towns, Porzingis, Okafor, Cauley-Stein, Turner all went elsewhere.

If this year's draft is the go-to scorer draft, when we desperately need one, we probably take Ben Simmons when he slides to 3 (say, Ingram to LA, Dunn to PHI)

[Andrew McCeltic]

Just brainstorming, but would the Pels trade their pick for Crowder? Would we trade him? They've turned Tyreke into a reliable small forward with fewer bad habits, but he's not the answer there. They really need someone like Kyle Korver at the 3, or they could take Hield if he's on board.. But you never know with Demps.

[Andrew McCeltic]

http://archive.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/2016/03/10/danny-ainge-says-top-the-nba-draft-little-bit-cloudy/eVr083RaA5kFiaZtSgNBKO/story.html

Don't know if anyone posted this, but it's the first comment I've seen from Danny on this year's draft: "cloudy" even at the top.

Last draft I remember like that was 2013, when Bennett went first and the three guys rumored as the 1- Oladipo, Noel, Mclemore- went 2, 6 and 7. The 2016 crop at least looks much better..

[Murta]

Misko4Raznatovic @MiskoRaznatovic
Ante Toni Zizic and Cibona agreed terms of NBA buy out for this summer. Annex of the agreement s already signed! #BeoBasket

David Pick ‏@IAmDPick
I'm told first-round prospect Ante Zizic, a monster center out of Croatia, open to NBA draft-and-stash route.

Very agile, tough, high motor player, who runs the floor well, raw in terms of offensive game outside of the paint and mental concepts on defense. I rate him comparably with Diamond Stone, although probably higher because he's a good rebounder unlike Stone. Could be an option for IND @20, BOS @23 and surely won't get past SAS @29. I like him very much for Milwaukee if they traded down.

High floor, lowish ceiling type of player. It's not out of the question for him to develop post game since he's noticeably improved between last and this season, but it's not the most likely scenario.
Comparisons? I said Samuel Dalembert before, maybe taller Tristan Thompson.

NBADraftProspects @draftprosnba
There are many NBA prospects who could really impact an NBA team right away when they come over. Really like 6-11 Ante Zizic from Croatia.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Zizic has come on everyone's radar, the question is how high he'll get in the draft once he does workouts.. The success of Denver's guys (Nurkic and Jokic) helps him.. Remember Porzingis was linked to OKC the year before last at 16, but ended up not staying in the draft (unless I'm mis-remembering)- a year later, he went 4th.

Very very ok with him at 23, if we keep that pick. Probably the best-case scenario if we keep it, actually.

[cellar-door]

http://archive.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/2016/03/10/danny-ainge-says-top-the-nba-draft-little-bit-cloudy/eVr083RaA5kFiaZtSgNBKO/story.html

Don't know if anyone posted this, but it's the first comment I've seen from Danny on this year's draft: "cloudy" even at the top.

Last draft I remember like that was 2013, when Bennett went first and the three guys rumored as the 1- Oladipo, Noel, Mclemore- went 2, 6 and 7. The 2016 crop at least looks much better..

Danny publicly ****** on the draft every year it's a running joke for the NBA writerw

[Andrew McCeltic]

I know, but "cloudy" is not what he usually says.

[No-Man]

Zizic has come on everyone's radar, the question is how high he'll get in the draft once he does workouts.. The success of Denver's guys (Nurkic and Jokic) helps him.. Remember Porzingis was linked to OKC the year before last at 16, but ended up not staying in the draft (unless I'm mis-remembering)- a year later, he went 4th.

Very very ok with him at 23, if we keep that pick. Probably the best-case scenario if we keep it, actually.

Zizic is not the same type of prospect, he is a physical big and a rim runner, but he looks like a specialist to me, Zubac on the other hand has all the tools, and he is just bigger and more polished.

[15th overall]

How many of these foreign players are (supposed) locks to stay in? idk if any of that's even clear at this point, but all I'm doing now is making assumptions based on mock draft projections basically, so I should be easy to impress.

[MrTwister]

Well both Zubac and Zizic are locks to stay in.Zubac in his latest interview hinted that he will workout for some teams before draft.

[Murta]

Luwawu and Bender 95% stay, Zipser AFAIK is auto-elegible, Cornelie does have some reason to return due to good recent performances, but it can probably only get him 5ish spots higher next season.

My opinion is that Korkmaz shouldn't stay in the draft unless it's a stashing scenario. He's getting minutes in Efes on the basis of being Turkish talent (each team has a maximum number of foreign players it can use in domestic competition). There's no way that he doesn't get those and more minutes in the future and he's nowhere near ready physically.