The Death of the Cavs

[theBigLip]

As proud as I am of our Pistons, I don't think we can beat them this year. But as I sat watching the game last night, we are only going to get better, and they have already peaked, so it is just a matter of time that we will put a nail in their coffin. I don't think the Cavs can beat the West champion, and unless he leaves, I don't think LBJ gets another ring. But I'm thinking about being the East Champion - and knocking out LeBron and the Cavs will be sweet. Next year? The following year? Not sure when, but I'm looking forward to watching a beaten Cavs team walking off the floor knowing their run is over, and it was the Pistons that put the dagger in their heart.

[chrbal]

The Cavs are to this version of the pistons as boston was to the bad boys. I'm not sure Cavs even make it out of the East. Egos and infighting will hold the Cavs back.

[Spider156]

Cavs are good but only in short spurts. When I watch the Spurs and Warriors, I see consistent effort on defense and offense. I just don't think Cavs can win the way they play right now. They might get better as the Playoffs go along but it'll probably be a wild fight for them to get the ring and they're gonna have to get Ray Allen shot lucky.

[The Penguin]

I don't see them beating a healthy Warriors or Spurs team this year and that will really turn up the heat on them. I fully expect them to move Kyrie this summer for a more "win now" piece, which is really going to shorten up their window to Lebron's prime. Kyrie is already running more with the bench unit as a "instant offense" guard and it's not hard to see they are a better team with Delly at the point, Lebron at the 4 and Jefferson/Shumpert at the 3.

The real question is how much does Lebron have left. http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/mp_career.html Three more regular seasons, even at the scaled back pace of the last few, and Lebron will be top 15 in regular season minutes played. Look at the list of who he'd be ranked with and it's staggering. Two more post seasons at last year's level (which included 2 sweeps) and he'll be top 1 or 2 (depending where Duncan leaves it) in playoff minutes played. There's only so much a body can take, even a Lebron type body, father time gets everyone.

I think Lebron is really feeling the pressure. Curry has really gotten to him and the way he's responding to Stanimal's comments you can see he's feeling his grip on the league slipping away. Given his history and ego, there's more than a little part of me who thinks he might see the Lakers as a place his "brotherhood" can go and a way he can steal the spotlight back from Curry. The Cavs are a major current road block, but I don't expect them to be there when Dre is in his age 26 season.

[The Penguin]

Cavs are good but only in short spurts. When I watch the Spurs and Warriors, I see consistent effort on defense and offense. I just don't think Cavs can win the way they play right now. They might get better as the Playoffs go along but it'll probably be a wild fight for them to get the ring and they're gonna have to get Ray Allen shot lucky.

Popovich and Kerr against Lue is like chess against checkers. The Cavs have one move, to play Love - Lebron - and 3 of Kyrie/Delly/JR/Shump/Rip Jefferson. That plays right into the Dub's hands, Draymond will feast on Love and as far as the Spurs go, LMA took Love to school already this season.

[BadMofoPimp]

I don't know why people expect the Pistons to get far this year. Every year will be a step forward. It won't happen overnight just like Pistons past great teams.

- make it to the playoffs
- make it past 1st round
- make it past 2nd round
- make it to ECF's
- make it to finals.

In most cases, building a great team is a journey of accomplishment.

[theBigLip]

I don't know why people expect the Pistons to get far this year. Every year will be a step forward. It won't happen overnight just like Pistons past great teams.

- make it to the playoffs
- make it past 1st round
- make it past 2nd round
- make it to ECF's
- make it to finals.

In most cases, building a great team is a journey of accomplishment.

I for one am not expecting them to get far this year. Making the playoffs and playing a tough series makes for a good season and a good springboard for next year. But the point of the thread is that Father Time is coming to the Cavs, and someday soon, the youth of our Pistons will be sending the Cavs out of the playoffs.

[BadMofoPimp]

I don't know why people expect the Pistons to get far this year. Every year will be a step forward. It won't happen overnight just like Pistons past great teams.

- make it to the playoffs
- make it past 1st round
- make it past 2nd round
- make it to ECF's
- make it to finals.

In most cases, building a great team is a journey of accomplishment.

I for one am not expecting them to get far this year. Making the playoffs and playing a tough series makes for a good season and a good springboard for next year. But the point of the thread is that Father Time is coming to the Cavs, and someday soon, the youth of our Pistons will be sending the Cavs out of the playoffs.

If Kyrie stays, they could still have a good team for years. Pending injury, Lebron should be a solid player for years. Tristan may improve and they have a little depth. It really depends on how much talent they can lure to play on that team and injuries. I can't imagine Lebron sustaining himself his entire career without missing a good deal amount of time due to injuries forever.

[Moses ShamMoses]

Not sure it'll be the Pistons who beats them but I think the Cavs only have a couple years to get it done.

[theBigLip]

I don't know why people expect the Pistons to get far this year. Every year will be a step forward. It won't happen overnight just like Pistons past great teams.

- make it to the playoffs
- make it past 1st round
- make it past 2nd round
- make it to ECF's
- make it to finals.

In most cases, building a great team is a journey of accomplishment.

I for one am not expecting them to get far this year. Making the playoffs and playing a tough series makes for a good season and a good springboard for next year. But the point of the thread is that Father Time is coming to the Cavs, and someday soon, the youth of our Pistons will be sending the Cavs out of the playoffs.

If Kyrie stays, they could still have a good team for years. Pending injury, Lebron should be a solid player for years. Tristan may improve and they have a little depth. It really depends on how much talent they can lure to play on that team and injuries. I can't imagine Lebron sustaining himself his entire career without missing a good deal amount of time due to injuries forever.

Kyrie is the bomb and I certainly could see him being "the man" and helping extend LBJ's career. But looking at that Wiggins/Love trade, if they could have it back, they would have been able to keep their window open.

[DocRI]

I honestly don't think it's a timeline or age thing, despite the miles on LeBron, as Love and Irving are plenty young. And I realize I may draw some ire from other fan bases and "sour grapes" accusations for this opinion, but to heck with it, here goes.

I think the problem with the Cavs is the same problem as the Thunder — it's not that their respective windows have closed, it's that they're an antiquated team model. In short, they're both 20th century teams playing in the 21st century NBA; they're too dependent on isolation offense and they both dribble the ball WAY TOO MUCH. Watch the Warriors and the Spurs when their offenses really get humming — the ball never touches the ground, and they never have to take a bad shot because, as a TEAM, they're always creating good looks for each other. The Cavs (with LeBron and Irving and sometimes Love) and the Thunder (with KD and Westbrook) use their superstars the same way MJ and Kobe and even a prime D-Wade were used, and that simply doesn't work at the highest level anymore. No matter how great your superstar talent(s) may be, asking them to bail you out and keep pace with a team who shoots nothing but wide open looks and layups is a losing battle.

And by the way, this model pretty much exactly works for our own young "Jekyll & Hyde" offense. On nights when the Pistons move the ball, we play like one of the best offenses in the league; on nights when we're stagnant and Reggie gets bogged down and over-dribbles coming off the P&R, we're downright tough to watch.

So what's the answer? For the Cavs and Thunder, I honestly don't know, as not even coaching changes have changed the style of their offense. For the Pistons, at our young age, I'm happy to say it's to keep learning, progressing, and to spend all summer watching game tapes of nights when our team offense truly clicked and to impress upon everyone, "See that? THAT'S how it's done!"

[theBigLip]

I honestly don't think it's a timeline or age thing, despite the miles on LeBron, as Love and Irving are plenty young. And I realize I may draw some ire from other fan bases and "sour grapes" accusations for this opinion, but to heck with it, here goes.

I think the problem with the Cavs is the same problem as the Thunder — it's not that their respective windows have closed, it's that they're an antiquated team model. In short, they're both 20th century teams playing in the 21st century NBA; they're too dependent on isolation offense and they both dribble the ball WAY TOO MUCH. Watch the Warriors and the Spurs when their offenses really get humming — the ball never touches the ground, and they never have to take a bad shot because, as a TEAM, they're always creating good looks for each other. The Cavs (with LeBron and Irving and sometimes Love) and the Thunder (with KD and Westbrook) use their superstars the same way MJ and Kobe and even a prime D-Wade were used, and that simply doesn't work at the highest level anymore. No matter how great your superstar talent(s) may be, asking them to bail you out and keep pace with a team who shoots nothing but wide open looks and layups is a losing battle.

And by the way, this model pretty much exactly works for our own young "Jekyll & Hyde" offense. On nights when the Pistons move the ball, we play like one of the best offenses in the league; on nights when we're stagnant and Reggie gets bogged down and over-dribbles coming off the P&R, we're downright tough to watch.

So what's the answer? For the Cavs and Thunder, I honestly don't know, as not even coaching changes have changed the style of their offense. For the Pistons, at our young age, I'm happy to say it's to keep learning, progressing, and to spend all summer watching game tapes of nights when our team offense truly clicked and to impress upon everyone, "See that? THAT'S how it's done!"

Nice post.

[mercury]

2017-2021 Pistons vs. C's rivalry redoux

[Pharaoh]

I honestly don't think it's a timeline or age thing, despite the miles on LeBron, as Love and Irving are plenty young. And I realize I may draw some ire from other fan bases and "sour grapes" accusations for this opinion, but to heck with it, here goes.

I think the problem with the Cavs is the same problem as the Thunder — it's not that their respective windows have closed, it's that they're an antiquated team model. In short, they're both 20th century teams playing in the 21st century NBA; they're too dependent on isolation offense and they both dribble the ball WAY TOO MUCH. Watch the Warriors and the Spurs when their offenses really get humming — the ball never touches the ground, and they never have to take a bad shot because, as a TEAM, they're always creating good looks for each other. The Cavs (with LeBron and Irving and sometimes Love) and the Thunder (with KD and Westbrook) use their superstars the same way MJ and Kobe and even a prime D-Wade were used, and that simply doesn't work at the highest level anymore. No matter how great your superstar talent(s) may be, asking them to bail you out and keep pace with a team who shoots nothing but wide open looks and layups is a losing battle.

And by the way, this model pretty much exactly works for our own young "Jekyll & Hyde" offense. On nights when the Pistons move the ball, we play like one of the best offenses in the league; on nights when we're stagnant and Reggie gets bogged down and over-dribbles coming off the P&R, we're downright tough to watch.

So what's the answer? For the Cavs and Thunder, I honestly don't know, as not even coaching changes have changed the style of their offense. For the Pistons, at our young age, I'm happy to say it's to keep learning, progressing, and to spend all summer watching game tapes of nights when our team offense truly clicked and to impress upon everyone, "See that? THAT'S how it's done!"

THIS!

And that is why SVG wants continuity.

Normal simplistic offense doesn't get it done anymore due to eyes in the sky (cameras track everything) and defensive focus ramping up.

But you can't just put a bunch of dudes together for a season and go "play like SAS or GSW" - it took years for those teams to get to this point!

You gotta keep your core together and add new stuff all the time...when people complain about our offense I wonder what they expected:

We badically had 3 new starters for us this season!

RJs first season starting the whole time. First season for Mook starting the whole time. Traded for Harris late.

Next season we should see real growth on both ends of the floor...and when you consider what we accomplished this season THAT should get us all excited, even Maker!