Just how good is Celtics Isiah Thomas

[McKenna]

He's pretty good.

[jpengland]

As I said in the trade forum, he has massively surprised me in how he has been able to find a way to make his offensive game work. He's a delight to watch go to work.

However, his defense is atrocious, and that's not really his fault - he just doesn't have the body to be a defender.

He's working in that Celtics offense, but there is always a a risk with offense only guys (especially 5'8 ones at that) that they either drop off unexpectedly in the same system or that if they are put in another system it just doesn't work at all.

His height and lack of defense are always going to be a HUGE issue, but currently his offensive value is outweighing the negatives on the defensive end.

[Froob]

Gimme him over Lowry anyday.

[Fencer reregistered]

Do you think Isiah isn't really all that great its just he happens to be the best player on the current roster with the way its constructed.

I lean towards "isn't really all that great" ... at least until he shows up in the playoffs.

Nobody really cares about getting up to play the Celtics, and yes, somebody has to get numbers; but in the playoffs even the Celtics will be game planned against.

Bumping this because he's currently the top scorer in the playoffs.

In other news, I think his defense is somewhat underrated, although with the erratic numbers from Teague and Schroder these playoffs don't provide much evidence about that one way or the other.

[chrisab123]

If you don't watch the games, then you are relevant in this subject to me. Watch the games. Watch the damn games. Ask any NBA player who is better. Ask any NBA PG who is better. Most of them will tell you who they rather. Ask NBA coaches and GM who is better. Ask them.

As I said, they are not on the same teams, play the same role or is asked to do the same thing. Aldridge is no where close to Millsap this year in any metric. Davis is not as good as Millsap this year but ask the coaches, players and GM and all would take Davis. Please stop the foolishness. There is no way Thomas is in the same league with Teague. He has a different role and Teague is just flat out better in most areas. Thomas is better at getting to the line. Thomas is better volume offense.

Jeff gets as many hockey assist as any PG in the NBA. His win shares are lower due to our starting lineup being average during the first half of the season. Since all star break, our starting lineup has been top 3 in the NBA.

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So one player has flat out been better in almost everything this season, yet he is not in the same league as Teague because of the Hawks performing really well since the All Star break? And who are these players that will tell us Teague is better? I've heard Draymond Green, J. Terry, Isiah Thomas, Jason Kidd ++ vouch for Thomas to be an All Star and even All NBA this season... not much about Teague there, but it's because the Hawks have so many stars that he can't score more points and get more assists compared to Thomas? With Korvers decline compared to last season I would say it would be the opposite, he should have brought more volume scoring to the team. Also just because Millsap is on a good run, I don't really see him as better than Davis. Davis just produces more in general.

He's not flat out better is the issue. Even by the numbers. There is a reason we have NBA people.

I don't see your points. I am telling you, there is no way Thomas is on Teague level. I told you he's a better shooter. Stats prove that. Better man defender, tape proves that clearly. Better BBIQ, tape clearly proves that. Better true PG, tape vastly proves that. Better feel for the game, tape proves that. There nothing really to talk about.

Horford is our best defender on tape but Sap is the best defender on stats. Korver is a good defender on stats but an below average man defender and a very good team defender on tape. Tape never lies, men do.

A. Davis is better on tape than Millsap while stats say Sap is clearly more impactful. Same for Aldridge. Why are you arguing on this?

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Hold on. Are you actually going to sit there and compare Millsap to the best PF in the game? There is nothing Millsap does better than Anthony Davis. Absolutely nothing. I'm actually a fan of Millsap. I think he would be a great fit on the Celtics and I'm telling you that he couldn't hold AD's jock. That's almost as ridiculous as comparing Demarre Carroll to Lebron. As for your debate of IT vs Teague its a very easy one to sum up. If you need offense IT is your guy. If you need defense then its Teague. Not because Teague is a really good defensive player but IT is 5'8. He really isn't in the NBA to defend anyone. The way you're talking about Teague you're almost putting him on the same level as someone like Westbrook or Curry which is insane. But then again comparing AD and Millsap isn't really rational either.

I am happy to see that you at least acknowledged Korver being a garbage defensive player though.

[eagereyez]

The last part is 100% trash. Teague would make them a better team. Better all around player. Shooter, defender, passer, PG, BBIQ. Just much better.

It seems like metrics only matter if the player is someone you like. Jahlil Okafor and Devin Booker is horrible at most metrics but most of you would take them over most of your squad. Teague has pretty good per36 metrics which and his post all star break numbers have been some of the best in the NBA for his position.

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HAHA, Teague is scoring way less on worse ts%, has less win shares, less PER, a slightly higher assist rate but higher turnover rate, less BPM, less VORP, ++++ yet you feel inclined to say he is much better? It's okay to be a fan, but take off your homer glasses.

If you don't watch the games, then you are relevant in this subject to me. Watch the games. Watch the damn games. Ask any NBA player who is better. Ask any NBA PG who is better. Most of them will tell you who they rather. Ask NBA coaches and GM who is better. Ask them.

As I said, they are not on the same teams, play the same role or is asked to do the same thing. Aldridge is no where close to Millsap this year in any metric. Davis is not as good as Millsap this year but ask the coaches, players and GM and all would take Davis. Please stop the foolishness. There is no way Thomas is in the same league with Teague. He has a different role and Teague is just flat out better in most areas. Thomas is better at getting to the line. Thomas is better volume offense.

Jeff gets as many hockey assist as any PG in the NBA. His win shares are lower due to our starting lineup being average during the first half of the season. Since all star break, our starting lineup has been top 3 in the NBA.

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I hope this playoff series has forced you to take your homer glasses off. IT>Teague and it's really not that close.

[Ben-N1ce]

The last part is 100% trash. Teague would make them a better team. Better all around player. Shooter, defender, passer, PG, BBIQ. Just much better.

It seems like metrics only matter if the player is someone you like. Jahlil Okafor and Devin Booker is horrible at most metrics but most of you would take them over most of your squad. Teague has pretty good per36 metrics which and his post all star break numbers have been some of the best in the NBA for his position.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

HAHA, Teague is scoring way less on worse ts%, has less win shares, less PER, a slightly higher assist rate but higher turnover rate, less BPM, less VORP, ++++ yet you feel inclined to say he is much better? It's okay to be a fan, but take off your homer glasses.

If you don't watch the games, then you are relevant in this subject to me. Watch the games. Watch the damn games. Ask any NBA player who is better. Ask any NBA PG who is better. Most of them will tell you who they rather. Ask NBA coaches and GM who is better. Ask them.

As I said, they are not on the same teams, play the same role or is asked to do the same thing. Aldridge is no where close to Millsap this year in any metric. Davis is not as good as Millsap this year but ask the coaches, players and GM and all would take Davis. Please stop the foolishness. There is no way Thomas is in the same league with Teague. He has a different role and Teague is just flat out better in most areas. Thomas is better at getting to the line. Thomas is better volume offense.

Jeff gets as many hockey assist as any PG in the NBA. His win shares are lower due to our starting lineup being average during the first half of the season. Since all star break, our starting lineup has been top 3 in the NBA.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[toussaud]

So one player has flat out been better in almost everything this season, yet he is not in the same league as Teague because of the Hawks performing really well since the All Star break? And who are these players that will tell us Teague is better? I've heard Draymond Green, J. Terry, Isiah Thomas, Jason Kidd ++ vouch for Thomas to be an All Star and even All NBA this season... not much about Teague there, but it's because the Hawks have so many stars that he can't score more points and get more assists compared to Thomas? With Korvers decline compared to last season I would say it would be the opposite, he should have brought more volume scoring to the team. Also just because Millsap is on a good run, I don't really see him as better than Davis. Davis just produces more in general.

He's not flat out better is the issue. Even by the numbers. There is a reason we have NBA people.

I don't see your points. I am telling you, there is no way Thomas is on Teague level. I told you he's a better shooter. Stats prove that. Better man defender, tape proves that clearly. Better BBIQ, tape clearly proves that. Better true PG, tape vastly proves that. Better feel for the game, tape proves that. There nothing really to talk about.

Horford is our best defender on tape but Sap is the best defender on stats. Korver is a good defender on stats but an below average man defender and a very good team defender on tape. Tape never lies, men do.

A. Davis is better on tape than Millsap while stats say Sap is clearly more impactful. Same for Aldridge. Why are you arguing on this?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Hold on. Are you actually going to sit there and compare Millsap to the best PF in the game? There is nothing Millsap does better than Anthony Davis. Absolutely nothing. I'm actually a fan of Millsap. I think he would be a great fit on the Celtics and I'm telling you that he couldn't hold AD's jock. That's almost as ridiculous as comparing Demarre Carroll to Lebron. As for your debate of IT vs Teague its a very easy one to sum up. If you need offense IT is your guy. If you need defense then its Teague. Not because Teague is a really good defensive player but IT is 5'8. He really isn't on an NBA to defend anyone. The way you're talking about Teague you're almost putting him on the same level as someone like Westbrook or Curry which is insane. But then again comparing AD and Millsap isn't really rational either.

I am happy to see that you at least acknowledged Korver being a garbage defensive player though.

Make the playoffs??

[chrisab123]

He's not flat out better is the issue. Even by the numbers. There is a reason we have NBA people.

I don't see your points. I am telling you, there is no way Thomas is on Teague level. I told you he's a better shooter. Stats prove that. Better man defender, tape proves that clearly. Better BBIQ, tape clearly proves that. Better true PG, tape vastly proves that. Better feel for the game, tape proves that. There nothing really to talk about.

Horford is our best defender on tape but Sap is the best defender on stats. Korver is a good defender on stats but an below average man defender and a very good team defender on tape. Tape never lies, men do.

A. Davis is better on tape than Millsap while stats say Sap is clearly more impactful. Same for Aldridge. Why are you arguing on this?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Hold on. Are you actually going to sit there and compare Millsap to the best PF in the game? There is nothing Millsap does better than Anthony Davis. Absolutely nothing. I'm actually a fan of Millsap. I think he would be a great fit on the Celtics and I'm telling you that he couldn't hold AD's jock. That's almost as ridiculous as comparing Demarre Carroll to Lebron. As for your debate of IT vs Teague its a very easy one to sum up. If you need offense IT is your guy. If you need defense then its Teague. Not because Teague is a really good defensive player but IT is 5'8. He really isn't on an NBA to defend anyone. The way you're talking about Teague you're almost putting him on the same level as someone like Westbrook or Curry which is insane. But then again comparing AD and Millsap isn't really rational either.

I am happy to see that you at least acknowledged Korver being a garbage defensive player though.

Make the playoffs??

More an indictment on his team around him. The only guy I've seen that could will a scrub team to the playoffs and a deep run was Iverson. For a stretch of time there was no one better than him in the league. One of my all time favorites to watch.

[toussaud]

Don't ever put teagues name in the same sentence as Isiah Thomas's. One has ice water in his veins. The other holds the ball doing nothing until he Chuck's up a 26 foot contested three with no time lkeft which he doesn't even get up because he's so scared **** he loses the ball on the way up

[chrisab123]

Do you think Isiah isn't really all that great its just he happens to be the best player on the current roster with the way its constructed.

I lean towards "isn't really all that great" ... at least until he shows up in the playoffs.

Nobody really cares about getting up to play the Celtics, and yes, somebody has to get numbers; but in the playoffs even the Celtics will be game planned against.

Bumping this because he's currently the top scorer in the playoffs.

In other news, I think his defense is somewhat underrated, although with the erratic numbers from Teague and Schroder these playoffs don't provide much evidence about that one way or the other.

I agree he is underrated. But he still isn't particularly good. I mean there are limits on him due to height which he cannot control. But he's a better defender than he was in Sacramento. Probably because of a coaching staff that is actually good in Boston. Its crazy how the Celtics board for years clamored for Tyreke and didn't want anything to do with IT. Times have changed. All it took was Clevelands first rounder this year!

[GregB]

Don't ever put teagues name in the same sentence as Isiah Thomas's. One has ice water in his veins. The other holds the ball doing nothing until he Chuck's up a 26 foot contested three with no time lkeft which he doesn't even get up because he's so scared **** he loses the ball on the way up

I am a Celtics fan but lets chill. Thomas has failed to close out games at times during the year. Teague has absolutely given us fits and if he didn't close out the game , you don't even have a chance to push it to OT.

both guys are very good players and I think it's close.

[MMyhre]

He's around the 7th-10th best PG in the league

For sure better:
Curry
Paul
Lillard
Westbrook
Lowry
Wall

In his territory:
Walker
Bledsoe
Conley
Irving

Close but I disagree. He belongs in the top group. Wall does not.

Dude no way, wall is a 20/10 guy and has been a stud since a rookie. I would take Wall over IT 10 times outta 10 if I were GM. Not taking away from IT who is a great player and on his contract a really great value. Still he's not in the same league as wall.

I've seen John Wall in the playoffs, and he would never be able to do what IT is doing right now. I would take Wall if I had a Durant type on my team, but IT is just superior as a leading scorer and Alpha Wolf.

[robbie84]

He's certainly the #1 bargain contract in the NBA.

He's being paid under $5 million and was traded for a late first round pick.

lol.

[pverona]

This guy is a warrior and cold blooded. I put him > Conley, Wall. Curry, WB, Lil are better. Maybe equal or better than Lowry

[JDizzel3000]

If he was simply a few inches taller he'd be looked at as A Kyrie Irving clone

[MMyhre]

If he was simply a few inches taller he'd be looked at as A Kyrie Irving clone

He has played better at 5'8, why would he become worse if he grew taller?

[JDizzel3000]

If he was simply a few inches taller he'd be looked at as A Kyrie Irving clone

He has played better at 5'8, why would he become worse if he grew taller?

I'm talking about general perception to fans and talking heads alike ...Kyrie is regarded as better

[OhMyBosh]

He's certainly the #1 bargain contract in the NBA.

He's being paid under $5 million and was traded for a late first round pick.

lol.

As Marcus Stroman puts it:

HDMH. Height Doesn't Measure Heart.

[Celts17Pride]

IT isn't a great defender but it isn't too much of a factor as long as he plays with Bradley, Smart and Crowder. The Celtics put him on the other teams worst offensive player just like they use to do with Larry Bird when he played with McHale and Parish.