The Clippers Should Not Keep Griffin or CP3.

OkcSinceSGA · Post #1 » by **OkcSinceSGA** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:45 pm

It's clear this core just can't get it done. Sure the bad coaching/GMing, mediocre role players have made it much worse, but at the end of the day what really matters is come playoff time EVERY SINGLE year like clockwork, Blake and CP3 get injured or are already injured in the playoffs. Beyond this.... Blake as great as he is individually has lost the fire that he had as a 1st and 2nd year player. It's like when all the marbles are on the table, he just can't get to that next level like these other great superstars can. CP3 as great as he is will be 31 soon and I don't like the idea of paying a 32 year old (when contract is up for renew) who is injured every year in the playoffs a supermax deal.

People will likely consider this an overreaction or think I'm nuts, but surprisingly this is after I slept on this and gave it much thought. Do you agree that it's foolish to give these two players supermax deals? MAYBE you consider keeping Blake but probably not for supermax, I'm not sure.

Craafty16 · Post #2 » by **Craafty16** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:54 pm

Sure, get rid of the two best things to ever happen to your franchise.
Ditch Rivers first, both of them.

mtron929 · Post #3 » by **mtron929** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:56 pm

I said this in the other thread.

Trade CP3 for Kyrie (Lebron will ok this)

Trade Griffin for Boston #3 pick (select Bender), Jay Crowder, and Evan Turner

New lineup

Irving/Rivers
Reddick/Turner
Crowder/Green
Bender/Moute
Jordan/Aldrich

laploutocratie · Post #4 » by **laploutocratie** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:57 pm

Brilliant

Post #5 » by **Quotatious** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:58 pm

Their problems are these:

1)having a crappy bench

2)Doc playing Crawford for almost as many minutes as Redick (JJ is a far better player)

3) Bad luck in terms of injuries to CP3 or Blake.

First and foremost, they would have to SERIOUSLY improve their bench to be able to win against GSW/SAS/OKC. Then, hope that Paul and Griffin will be healthy...Talent-wise, Paul and Griffin are good enough to be #1 and 2 options on a championship team, and DeAndre is good enough to be the third best player on a championship team. Their core is fine.

MotownMadness · Post #6 » by **MotownMadness** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:00 pm

They will be too scared to pull the trigger and rebuild

cpower · Post #7 » by **cpower** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:00 pm

CP3, Reddick, Jordan and Griffin is still one of the best lineups in the game.
They just need to get a better coach and dump JCraw , Rivers, and green.
I can't believe they let Lance Stephenson go. Rivers was delusional.

KazuoOda · Post #8 » by **KazuoOda** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:00 pm

mtron929 wrote:I said this in the other thread.

Trade CP3 for Kyrie (Lebron will ok this)

Trade Griffin for Boston #3 pick (select Bender), Jay Crowder, and Evan Turner

New lineup

Irving/Rivers
Reddick/Turner
Crowder/Green
Bender/Moute
Jordan/Aldrich

The Cavs won't. Why would the Cavs trade their best player? No ty.

daoneandonly · Post #9 » by **daoneandonly** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:00 pm

Understandable knee jerk reaction. They had a hell of a seaosn and probably may have been the #3 seed had Blake not gotten hurt. I understand the injuries are part of the desire to potentially move them, but then you run the risk of getting pennies on the dollar.

mtron929 · Post #10 » by **mtron929** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:02 pm

Quotatious wrote:Their problems are these:

1)having a crappy bench

2)Doc playing Crawford for almost as many minutes as Redick (JJ is a far better player)

3) Bad luck in terms of injuries to CP3 or Blake.

First and foremost, they would have to SERIOUSLY improve their bench to be able to win against GSW/SAS/OKC. Then, hope that Paul and Griffin will be healthy...Talent-wise, Paul and Griffin are good enough to be #1 and 2 options on a championship team, and DeAndre is good enough to be the third best player on a championship team. Their core is fine.

To be honest, I don't think that is it. I think their main problem is that their best player CP3 is just not as good as guys like Curry and Lebron. It is akin to why Ewing, Barkley, and Malone never beat Jordan. It is not the bench. It is that upon the best player to best player comparisons, they are lacking. And thus, they have maxed out because their star power has maxed out.

tamao · Post #11 » by **tamao** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:02 pm

mtron929 wrote:I said this in the other thread.

Trade CP3 for Kyrie (Lebron will ok this)

Trade Griffin for Boston #3 pick (select Bender), Jay Crowder, and Evan Turner

New lineup

Irving/Rivers
Reddick/Turner
Crowder/Green
Bender/Moute
Jordan/Aldrich

WTH,

all they have to do is to improve their bench,that's all.
Balmer have 20b to spent btw.

Hindenburg · Post #12 » by **Hindenburg** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:02 pm

CP3 for Kyrie
Griffin for Milsap

gothehornets · Post #13 » by **gothehornets** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:03 pm

have you always been a clippers fan?
because the last 4 years have been more successful than the last 40 prior?

mtron929 · Post #14 » by **mtron929** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:03 pm

KazuoOda wrote:
mtron929 wrote:I said this in the other thread.

Trade CP3 for Kyrie (Lebron will ok this)

Trade Griffin for Boston #3 pick (select Bender), Jay Crowder, and Evan Turner

New lineup

Irving/Rivers
Reddick/Turner
Crowder/Green
Bender/Moute
Jordan/Aldrich

The Cavs won't. Why would the Cavs trade their best player? No ty.

lol @ their best player. They will do this because the Cavs will not win it all this year and Lebron will want changes.

Post #15 » by **Quotatious** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:04 pm

mtron929 wrote:
Quotatious wrote:Their problems are these:

1)having a crappy bench

2)Doc playing Crawford for almost as many minutes as Redick (JJ is a far better player)

3) Bad luck in terms of injuries to CP3 or Blake.

First and foremost, they would have to SERIOUSLY improve their bench to be able to win against GSW/SAS/OKC. Then, hope that Paul and Griffin will be healthy...Talent-wise, Paul and Griffin are good enough to be #1 and 2 options on a championship team, and DeAndre is good enough to be the third best player on a championship team. Their core is fine.

To be honest, I don't think that is it. I think their main problem is that their best player CP3 is just not as good as guys like Curry and Lebron. It is akin to why Ewing, Barkley, and Malone never beat Jordan. It is not the bench. It is that upon the best player to best player comparisons, they are lacking. And thus, they have maxed out because their star power has maxed out.

Nah, I disagree. Paul is definitely good enough, look at last year's playoffs before his injury. Or 2008. Or 2011. He's just mostly unlucky in terms of health, his own or that of his key teammates.

We saw teams having Isiah Thomas and Chauncey Billups as their #1 options, win titles, so CP3 not being good enough is definitely wrong.

Joe Buddy · Post #16 » by **Joe Buddy** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:04 pm

KazuoOda wrote:
mtron929 wrote:I said this in the other thread.

Trade CP3 for Kyrie (Lebron will ok this)

Trade Griffin for Boston #3 pick (select Bender), Jay Crowder, and Evan Turner

New lineup

Irving/Rivers
Reddick/Turner
Crowder/Green
Bender/Moute
Jordan/Aldrich

The Cavs won't. Why would the Cavs trade their best player? No ty.

You're saying LeBron wouldn't trade Kyrie for CP3?

mtron929 · Post #17 » by **mtron929** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:04 pm

tamao wrote:
mtron929 wrote:I said this in the other thread.

Trade CP3 for Kyrie (Lebron will ok this)

Trade Griffin for Boston #3 pick (select Bender), Jay Crowder, and Evan Turner

New lineup

Irving/Rivers
Reddick/Turner
Crowder/Green
Bender/Moute
Jordan/Aldrich

WTH,

all they have to do is to improve their bench,that's all.
Balmer have 20b to spent btw.

See my post above. It is not the bench that is lacking. It is that their top star is not as good as other team's top star. This happens. CP3 is great but he is not Lebron great nor is he Curry great. Accordingly, the Clippers have maxed out on what they can accomplish. If you swap CP3 and Curry (assuming both are healthy), then the Clippers become the Warriors and the Warriors become the Clippers. It is that simple.

mtron929 · Post #18 » by **mtron929** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:06 pm

Quotatious wrote:
mtron929 wrote:
Quotatious wrote:Their problems are these:

1)having a crappy bench

2)Doc playing Crawford for almost as many minutes as Redick (JJ is a far better player)

3) Bad luck in terms of injuries to CP3 or Blake.

First and foremost, they would have to SERIOUSLY improve their bench to be able to win against GSW/SAS/OKC. Then, hope that Paul and Griffin will be healthy...Talent-wise, Paul and Griffin are good enough to be #1 and 2 options on a championship team, and DeAndre is good enough to be the third best player on a championship team. Their core is fine.

To be honest, I don't think that is it. I think their main problem is that their best player CP3 is just not as good as guys like Curry and Lebron. It is akin to why Ewing, Barkley, and Malone never beat Jordan. It is not the bench. It is that upon the best player to best player comparisons, they are lacking. And thus, they have maxed out because their star power has maxed out.

Nah, I disagree. Paul is definitely good enough, look at last year's playoffs before his injury. Or 2008. Or 2011. He's just mostly unlucky in terms of health, his own or that of his key teammates.

Really? You don't think Ewing/Barkley/Malone to Jordan = CP3 to Curry analogy is apt? Notice that I am giving CP3 a lot of respect here when I compare him to guys like Ewing, Barkley, and Malone.

Post #19 » by **Quotatious** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:09 pm

mtron929 wrote:
Quotatious wrote:
mtron929 wrote:
To be honest, I don't think that is it. I think their main problem is that their best player CP3 is just not as good as guys like Curry and Lebron. It is akin to why Ewing, Barkley, and Malone never beat Jordan. It is not the bench. It is that upon the best player to best player comparisons, they are lacking. And thus, they have maxed out because their star power has maxed out.

Nah, I disagree. Paul is definitely good enough, look at last year's playoffs before his injury. Or 2008. Or 2011. He's just mostly unlucky in terms of health, his own or that of his key teammates.

Really? You don't think Ewing/Barkley/Malone to Jordan = CP3 to Curry analogy is apt? Notice that I am giving CP3 a lot of respect here when I compare him to guys like Ewing, Barkley, and Malone.

Honestly, I don't think last year's Curry was better than peak Paul (I mean 2008 Paul) in the playoffs, so that's not it.

Like I said, if you can win with Isiah Thomas or Chauncey Billups as your #1 option, you can certainly win with Chris Paul, too.

OkcSinceSGA · Post #20 » by **OkcSinceSGA** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:13 pm

gothehornets wrote:have you always been a clippers fan?
because the last 4 years have been more successful than the last 40 prior?

17 years. Here's what I've dealt with and why this "success" means little to me. I've dealt with so much failure and heartbreak with this team and when they finally get good, they STILL find ways to crush the fans with atrocious playoff failures/chokes. I'd rewind time if I could and reverse the CP3 trade TBH. I'd rather build around Blake before all his bad habits that were largely developed with CP3/Doc (the flopping, crying to refs, MUCH lower motor, jumpshot happy). I'd much rather have a young, exciting core of Bledsoe/Aminu/Griffin/DJ/few high draft pick players than a treadmill team that literally for the life of them cannot go through the playoffs without a massive letdown.

I actually MISS the excitement of the draft, free agency etc when a team is actively trying to build and you have low expectations and no idea what's going to happen. Instead I know EXACTLY what's going to happen with the Clippers. They are going to win 55 games a year on average and be out in the 1st or 2nd round due to sudden injuries or being soft/mentally weak. They are basically the Dallas Mavericks pre title where they win 50 games every year, but choke in the playoffs.