The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason

[bwgood77]

Bwgood77, If you think it would require Booker to get a superstar, you are dramatically underestimating how valuable picks are. I mean dramatically. In 1996, Jerry Colangelo supposedly did everything he could to move up in the draft a few spots to select Kobe Bryant and he could not get a deal done. Not one team was willing to do it no matter what the Suns offered. In 2002, Portland furiously tried to move up in the draft to select Amare before the Suns got him and they could not do it. No team was interested in anything they were offering.

Teams treat their own lottery picks like gold when they know they have a good pick and there is a player they want. For all we know, the Suns own pick is untouchable and McDonough has his sights set on one player in the draft. The most valuable asset in the league besides a top ten player in his prime is a high draft pick.

And why do you think think I am mentioning Knight as being a great centerpiece? He is garbage. He is a throw-in that could start on a team just because he can score. The centerpiece of the deal is the Suns own pick. Then after that, the second most important part is the other pick. Whatever players the Suns use in the trade are not as important as the picks.

Btw, the Clippers might look very different next year. Ramona Shelbourne talked about how yesterday was the worst day in Clippers history. They lost their two superstars on the same day. Plus both Griffin and Paul are going into the last year of their deals next season. Even if they were fully healthy, it was pretty obvious that they are not on the level of the other top Western Conference teams or the Cavaliers. They are in the same position each year. And what are the Rockets supposed to do? Lots of there fans are fed up with Harden's horrific defense and possible lack of leadership qualities. Even Shaq called him out the other day saying he is a terrible leader. The landscape of the NBA could change next season.

You keep saying no team is interested in what the Suns have to offer and I do not get it. You think guys like Griffin, Harden, George, Butler, Wall, or whoever else are like Michael Jordan or something. What do you think these guys are? Surefire first ballot hall of famers? I think you underestimate how little patience owners can have and want to move in a different direction when things are not working.

Just go throw some of your crappy proposals around in the trade forum and see if they stick. Teams DO value picks.....but stars under long term deals don't get traded....George, Harden and Wall are certainly not going anywhere. But it's pointless to argue this any more if we both think each other are unreasonable.

Booker feels pretty untradeable.....so if that's the case, I'm not sure why guys like George or Wall wouldn't be. Those guys are obviously A LOT more proven...same goes for anyone you are talking about.

And picks are worth less this year than usual. Teams rarely trade young superstars under contract for a long time. Superstars usually move after they are the only star left on an old team OR if they will likely leave in FA in a year. So Griffin fits that, but then you risk him leaving us too.

[letsgosuns]

Bwgood77, If you think it would require Booker to get a superstar, you are dramatically underestimating how valuable picks are. I mean dramatically. In 1996, Jerry Colangelo supposedly did everything he could to move up in the draft a few spots to select Kobe Bryant and he could not get a deal done. Not one team was willing to do it no matter what the Suns offered. In 2002, Portland furiously tried to move up in the draft to select Amare before the Suns got him and they could not do it. No team was interested in anything they were offering.

Teams treat their own lottery picks like gold when they know they have a good pick and there is a player they want. For all we know, the Suns own pick is untouchable and McDonough has his sights set on one player in the draft. The most valuable asset in the league besides a top ten player in his prime is a high draft pick.

And why do you think think I am mentioning Knight as being a great centerpiece? He is garbage. He is a throw-in that could start on a team just because he can score. The centerpiece of the deal is the Suns own pick. Then after that, the second most important part is the other pick. Whatever players the Suns use in the trade are not as important as the picks.

Btw, the Clippers might look very different next year. Ramona Shelbourne talked about how yesterday was the worst day in Clippers history. They lost their two superstars on the same day. Plus both Griffin and Paul are going into the last year of their deals next season. Even if they were fully healthy, it was pretty obvious that they are not on the level of the other top Western Conference teams or the Cavaliers. They are in the same position each year. And what are the Rockets supposed to do? Lots of there fans are fed up with Harden's horrific defense and possible lack of leadership qualities. Even Shaq called him out the other day saying he is a terrible leader. The landscape of the NBA could change next season.

You keep saying no team is interested in what the Suns have to offer and I do not get it. You think guys like Griffin, Harden, George, Butler, Wall, or whoever else are like Michael Jordan or something. What do you think these guys are? Surefire first ballot hall of famers? I think you underestimate how little patience owners can have and want to move in a different direction when things are not working.

Just go throw some of your crappy proposals around in the trade forum and see if they stick. Teams DO value picks.....but stars under long term deals don't get traded....George, Harden and Wall are certainly not going anywhere. But it's pointless to argue this any more if we both think each other are unreasonable.

Booker feels pretty untradeable.....so if that's the case, I'm not sure why guys like George or Wall wouldn't be. Those guys are obviously A LOT more proven...same goes for anyone you are talking about.

Are you kidding? My proposals are crappy? Whatever. Idk what to say anymore. You think a hypothetical offer of a top five pick, the 13th pick, Bledsoe, Warren, and Len is a bad offer? Okay. It is hilarious because I would not trade that package I just mentioned for anyone in the league besides someone like Durant or Lebron. You do not even think it is good enough for a guy like Griffin who has had serious injuries and is going into the last year of his deal.

And I do not care what people on the trade board say. That is pointless. There are true untouchable players in this league like Lebron, Durant, Curry, Leonard, Davis, maybe Towns now too. Other guys like Wall, Harden, Griffin, George, Cousins, no way are they untouchable. If your reasoning was 100% accurate, no superstar would ever get traded for anything unless the team trading them was getting a superstar in return. I said before recently that never happens. Vince Carter was traded in the prime of his career for practically nothing. The Raptors did not even get a lottery pick for him. The Suns traded Marbury (an all-star, not a superstar) for a couple of picks and cap space. He was in the prime of his career. When the Suns traded for Penny Hardaway, a perennial all-star at the time, all it took was an old Danny Manning, Pat Garrity, and two picks, one of which the Suns got back later.

Three examples right there of Carter, Marbury, and Penny. All three of them all-stars, all traded during their primes (Penny sadly got injured soon after the Suns got him). Not one of those teams got back anything close to a good package and certainly not a top five draft pick.

[jcsunsfan]

I would say the rebuild is done in terms of youth.

Len 23
Booker 20
Goodwin 21
Warren 23
Top 5 pick - 22 or younger
#13 pick - 22 or younger
#27 pick - 22 or younger
#34 pick - 22 or younger
Bogdanovic - 24
Knight - 25

Ten players 25 or younger. We will be the youngest team in the league next year. So what you want to go find some 18 year olds??

The rebuild is not done until we get star players. I do not care what age they are as long as it is under 30.

Young, even very young stars are ok. Just trade off other you assets to balance the team.

Btw. We are going to trade away a young player or two soon and posters are not going to be happy.

There are just too many.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[bwgood77]

Bwgood77, If you think it would require Booker to get a superstar, you are dramatically underestimating how valuable picks are. I mean dramatically. In 1996, Jerry Colangelo supposedly did everything he could to move up in the draft a few spots to select Kobe Bryant and he could not get a deal done. Not one team was willing to do it no matter what the Suns offered. In 2002, Portland furiously tried to move up in the draft to select Amare before the Suns got him and they could not do it. No team was interested in anything they were offering.

Teams treat their own lottery picks like gold when they know they have a good pick and there is a player they want. For all we know, the Suns own pick is untouchable and McDonough has his sights set on one player in the draft. The most valuable asset in the league besides a top ten player in his prime is a high draft pick.

And why do you think think I am mentioning Knight as being a great centerpiece? He is garbage. He is a throw-in that could start on a team just because he can score. The centerpiece of the deal is the Suns own pick. Then after that, the second most important part is the other pick. Whatever players the Suns use in the trade are not as important as the picks.

Btw, the Clippers might look very different next year. Ramona Shelbourne talked about how yesterday was the worst day in Clippers history. They lost their two superstars on the same day. Plus both Griffin and Paul are going into the last year of their deals next season. Even if they were fully healthy, it was pretty obvious that they are not on the level of the other top Western Conference teams or the Cavaliers. They are in the same position each year. And what are the Rockets supposed to do? Lots of there fans are fed up with Harden's horrific defense and possible lack of leadership qualities. Even Shaq called him out the other day saying he is a terrible leader. The landscape of the NBA could change next season.

You keep saying no team is interested in what the Suns have to offer and I do not get it. You think guys like Griffin, Harden, George, Butler, Wall, or whoever else are like Michael Jordan or something. What do you think these guys are? Surefire first ballot hall of famers? I think you underestimate how little patience owners can have and want to move in a different direction when things are not working.

Just go throw some of your crappy proposals around in the trade forum and see if they stick. Teams DO value picks.....but stars under long term deals don't get traded....George, Harden and Wall are certainly not going anywhere. But it's pointless to argue this any more if we both think each other are unreasonable.

Booker feels pretty untradeable.....so if that's the case, I'm not sure why guys like George or Wall wouldn't be. Those guys are obviously A LOT more proven...same goes for anyone you are talking about.

Are you kidding? My proposals are crappy? Whatever. Idk what to say anymore. You think a hypothetical offer of a top five pick, the 13th pick, Bledsoe, Warren, and Len is a bad offer? Okay. It is hilarious because I would not trade that package I just mentioned for anyone in the league besides someone like Durant or Lebron. You do not even think it is good enough for a guy like Griffin who has had serious injuries and is going into the last year of his deal.

And I do not care what people on the trade board say. That is pointless. There are true untouchable players in this league like Lebron, Durant, Curry, Leonard, Davis, maybe Towns now too. Other guys like Wall, Harden, Griffin, George, Cousins, no way are they untouchable. If your reasoning was 100% accurate, no superstar would ever get traded for anything unless the team trading them was getting a superstar in return. I said before recently that never happens. Vince Carter was traded in the prime of his career for practically nothing. The Raptors did not even get a lottery pick for him. The Suns traded Marbury (an all-star, not a superstar) for a couple of picks and cap space. He was in the prime of his career. When the Suns traded for Penny Hardaway, a perennial all-star at the time, all it took was an old Danny Manning, Pat Garrity, and two picks, one of which the Suns got back later.

Three examples right there of Carter, Marbury, and Penny. All three of them all-stars, all traded during their primes (Penny sadly got injured soon after the Suns got him). Not one of those teams got back anything close to a good package and certainly not a top five draft pick.

I don't think that offer for Griffin is unreasonable on the surface, but the last two things they need unless they are trading Paul, which is unlikely to happen, is getting Bledsoe (another PG) and Len (another center). If you understood the landscape of where other teams are you might realize that. You know what I think they'd trade Griffin for and I don't think, even if we did trade for him, he'd stay here.

The Marbury trade made sense to clear cap space for Nash and to get a guy who could better enable guys like JJ and Amare. Penny was on the downside of their career and Hill looked done, so it was time for them to reload. Those guys are/were not on the level of George or Wall....two teams desperate to compete who were recently in the second round (Washington as recently as last year, but faced major injuries this year) and Indiana, in the conference finals. Harden in the WCF last year. Len and Warren hold far more value to us than to other teams right now. Bledsoe has major injury concerns so he probably has more value to us than elsewhere. The 5th and 12th pick are not great commodities this year, at least not for a star. People on the trade forum, at least the mods and most of the regular posters there propose reasonable trades usually and if they don't, they get reasonable comments back. You are only looking at it for star players. If those deals are attainable, McD will make them, and you will prove me wrong, so I guess we can wait and see what happens.

If you don't have the balls to take your offer to the trade forum, try those team forums to see if they think those are reasonable offers.

[lilfishi22]

Bwgood77, If you think it would require Booker to get a superstar, you are dramatically underestimating how valuable picks are. I mean dramatically. In 1996, Jerry Colangelo supposedly did everything he could to move up in the draft a few spots to select Kobe Bryant and he could not get a deal done. Not one team was willing to do it no matter what the Suns offered. In 2002, Portland furiously tried to move up in the draft to select Amare before the Suns got him and they could not do it. No team was interested in anything they were offering.

Teams treat their own lottery picks like gold when they know they have a good pick and there is a player they want. For all we know, the Suns own pick is untouchable and McDonough has his sights set on one player in the draft. The most valuable asset in the league besides a top ten player in his prime is a high draft pick.

I fundamentally disagree with this comment. You are saying outside of 10 players in the league, the 11th best asset is a top 1-2 pick? I also have a VERY difficult time considering what was done in the past (20 yrs ago) and applying it to today's NBA. Different drafts, different salary caps, different roster structures and different trends in the NBA would drive a very different trade market. What was offered for players in the past, especially from more than a few seasons ago, does not mean a similar offer now would equate to equal similar value.

I agree that lotto picks are valuable but their value varies depending on who you talk to, who they already have and what their aim is. A team like the Clippers or Cavs (Wiggins) have no use for a top lotto pick. They don't need question marks, they need proven players. Sure this lotto pick could come in and turn out to be Lamar Odom 2.0 and potentially help them out but chances are, he's not going to move the needle this season and even if he does, it's not enough to replace Griffin.

[letsgosuns]

Just go throw some of your crappy proposals around in the trade forum and see if they stick. Teams DO value picks.....but stars under long term deals don't get traded....George, Harden and Wall are certainly not going anywhere. But it's pointless to argue this any more if we both think each other are unreasonable.

Booker feels pretty untradeable.....so if that's the case, I'm not sure why guys like George or Wall wouldn't be. Those guys are obviously A LOT more proven...same goes for anyone you are talking about.

Are you kidding? My proposals are crappy? Whatever. Idk what to say anymore. You think a hypothetical offer of a top five pick, the 13th pick, Bledsoe, Warren, and Len is a bad offer? Okay. It is hilarious because I would not trade that package I just mentioned for anyone in the league besides someone like Durant or Lebron. You do not even think it is good enough for a guy like Griffin who has had serious injuries and is going into the last year of his deal.

And I do not care what people on the trade board say. That is pointless. There are true untouchable players in this league like Lebron, Durant, Curry, Leonard, Davis, maybe Towns now too. Other guys like Wall, Harden, Griffin, George, Cousins, no way are they untouchable. If your reasoning was 100% accurate, no superstar would ever get traded for anything unless the team trading them was getting a superstar in return. I said before recently that never happens. Vince Carter was traded in the prime of his career for practically nothing. The Raptors did not even get a lottery pick for him. The Suns traded Marbury (an all-star, not a superstar) for a couple of picks and cap space. He was in the prime of his career. When the Suns traded for Penny Hardaway, a perennial all-star at the time, all it took was an old Danny Manning, Pat Garrity, and two picks, one of which the Suns got back later.

Three examples right there of Carter, Marbury, and Penny. All three of them all-stars, all traded during their primes (Penny sadly got injured soon after the Suns got him). Not one of those teams got back anything close to a good package and certainly not a top five draft pick.

I don't think that offer for Griffin is unreasonable on the surface, but the last two things they need unless they are trading Paul, which is unlikely to happen, is getting Bledsoe (another PG) and Len (another center). If you understood the landscape of where other teams are you might realize that. You know what I think they'd trade Griffin for and I don't think, even if we did trade for him, he'd stay here.

The Marbury trade made sense to clear cap space for Nash and to get a guy who could better enable guys like JJ and Amare. Penny was on the downside of their career and Hill looked done, so it was time for them to reload. Those guys are/were not on the level of George or Wall....two teams desperate to compete who were recently in the second round (Washington as recently as last year, but faced major injuries this year) and Indiana, in the conference finals. Harden in the WCF last year. Len and Warren hold far more value to us than to other teams right now. Bledsoe has major injury concerns so he probably has more value to us than elsewhere. The 5th and 12th pick are not great commodities this year, at least not for a star. People on the trade forum, at least the mods and most of the regular posters there propose reasonable trades usually and if they don't, they get reasonable comments back. You are only looking at it for star players. If those deals are attainable, McD will make them, and you will prove me wrong, so I guess we can wait and see what happens.

If you don't have the balls to take your offer to the trade forum, try those team forums to see if they think those are reasonable offers.

Before I respond to the substance of your reply, I am going to say something. I do not need you to challenge me asking me if I have the balls to take my offer to the trade forum. That is insulting and actually offensive. I have never once even clicked on that forum or any other forums on this website besides team forums. I choose not to go there because I am not interested in partaking in generalized conversations about random trade proposals unless it on the Suns forum or a specific team forum. So for you to personally insult me like that is uncalled for and rude. I have taken a lot of flak on this website from many posters who have gone after me personally, yet I have never once insulted anyone personally or called anyone out or disregarded or looked down on their opinion. And I certainly do not need you or anyone else questioning whether I have the balls to talk about trade proposal on a basketball message board.

That being said, you did not disprove anything I said about Carter, Marbury, or Hardaway. You did not even mention the Vince Carter trade. Go back and look at what it involved. The Raptors traded him for practically nothing. He was a superstar in his prime at age 28. For Marbury, age 26 at the time of the trade, the Suns got just a couple of decent picks (one which they traded later on) and random players. So what if they did it for the cap space. It still represents an all-star in the prime of his career getting traded for very little. And the Magic traded Hardaway right after they finished the lockout shortened season tied for best record in the Eastern Conference at 33-17. Plus Idk why you think Hardaway was on the downside of his career. He was still the best player on the team that finished with the best record in the East. He was only 28 and still a great player when the Suns traded for him. He was awesome in the 2000 playoffs for the Suns. It was not until he hurt his knee that his career turned for the worse. And who is this Hill player you mentioned that looked done?

Here is another example. Ray Allen was traded when he was 31 for three mediocre players and a 2nd round pick. He was a top shooting guard in the league and had made the all-star team seven years straight at the time of the trade. He was still in his prime. Looking back on the trade, what did the Supersonics get for him? Almost nothing. When Allen Iverson was traded to the Nuggets in 2006 at age 31, still in his prime, the 76ers got two mediocre players and two late first round picks in 2007 for him. This was the city's beloved player and hall of famer and they got almost nothing in return for him. Get my point? When things are not working out and a team is not winning, owners/gms make changes to the roster. No one stays untouchable.

[Qwigglez]

I think the only "star' player who is available that we may be able to get is Jimmy Butler. This kind of package works in trade machine...

Suns get-
Jimmy Butler

Bulls get-
Alex Len
TJ Warren
Archie Goodwin
PJ Tucker

Would probably have to swap picks with the Bulls as well as giving them the Wizards pick and the Heat 2017 pick. Bulls don't get any long term contracts (ex. Knight) and they can start a rebuild and try to land a top pick in 2017 which is supposedly a super deep draft.

[lilfishi22]

I think the only "star' player who is available that we may be able to get is Jimmy Butler. This kind of package works in trade machine...

Suns get-
Jimmy Butler

Bulls get-
Alex Len
TJ Warren
Archie Goodwin
PJ Tucker

Would probably have to swap picks with the Bulls as well as giving them the Wizards pick and the Heat 2017 pick. Bulls don't get any long term contracts (ex. Knight) and they can start a rebuild and try to land a top pick in 2017 which is supposedly a super deep draft.

Jimmy is worth a heck of a lot more than Len/Warren (plus throw ins). You're going to have to include Booker and maybe the WAS pick for them to consider it.

[letsgosuns]

Do you guys remember the proposed draft-day trade between the Warriors and Suns in 2009? It was Andres Biedrins, Brandan Wright, Marco Belinelli, and the 7th pick of the draft (which was Steph Curry). Amare Stoudemire was only 26 at the time. He was still a monster and arguably the best scoring power forward in the league in his prime. Bottom line, the Suns were trading him for three role players and the 7th pick of the draft. The trade's centerpiece was the draft pick which was Curry. A college player who was a point guard when the Suns already had Steve Nash. And it was the Warriors who pulled out of the deal because they did not think Amare was worth a rookie point guard with potential and three role players.

So for all the fans who keep saying it takes multiple super high draft picks and proven young players to trade for a star, just look at history, because it shows that is not what it takes to get a deal done. More often than not, all it takes is a package of some decent players and a couple of draft picks. So when I say something like a top five pick is an incredibly valuable asset that can be used as the centerpiece of a blockbuster trade for a superstar, it is not a joke, it is real.

[Qwigglez]

Jimmy is worth a heck of a lot more than Len/Warren (plus throw ins). You're going to have to include Booker and maybe the WAS pick for them to consider it.

I did include the Wizards pick. I don't feel like Len & Warren are just throw ins. They both still have high upside. If we really wanted Butler I think McD would throw in the Heat 2021 pick and that would definitely get it done IMO. The Bulls don't really have a core around Butler as of now, so trading him now is optimal IMO if they wanted to rebuild. Getting a top pick in this weak draft, plus two more potentially good picks, plus their own next year would put them at a head start in terms of rebuilding.
Just bored an wanted to have something to discuss. What realistic options are other teams fans throwing at the Bulls that is more enticing than a package that we can throw together?


Honestly I'd rather us trade Bledsoe/Knight/Tucker/Chandler for scraps and have us rebuild. I'm tired of this conbuilding garbage but I just don' see Sarver taking the full rebuild route. He never has and if it wasn't for Nash we probably would have been in this perpetual cycle since he took over the team.

[lilfishi22]

Jimmy is worth a heck of a lot more than Len/Warren (plus throw ins). You're going to have to include Booker and maybe the WAS pick for them to consider it.

I did include the Wizards pick. I don't feel like Len & Warren are just throw ins. They both still have high upside. If we really wanted Butler I think McD would throw in the Heat 2021 pick and that would definitely get it done IMO. The Bulls don't really have a core around Butler as of now, so trading him now is optimal IMO if they wanted to rebuild. Getting a top pick in this weak draft, plus two more potentially good picks, plus their own next year would put them at a head start in terms of rebuilding.
Just bored an wanted to have something to discuss. What realistic options are other teams fans throwing at the Bulls that is more enticing than a package that we can throw together?


Honestly I'd rather us trade Bledsoe/Knight/Tucker/Chandler for scraps and have us rebuild. I'm tired of this conbuilding garbage but I just don' see Sarver taking the full rebuild route. He never has and if it wasn't for Nash we probably would have been in this perpetual cycle since he took over the team.

My mistake regarding the WAS pick. I don't think Len and Warren are throw-ins unlike Archie and Tucker but I also don't think most team regard them as highly as we do. I do question why the Bulls would trade away a sure thing in Butler if they are looking to rebuild. Butler is only 26 and is locked into a good contract for another 4 seasons. That's a great cornerstone player.

I personally would want to move Bledsoe/Knight/Tucker/Chandler for rebuilding pieces too but at some point you gotta have some talent to build on.

[letsgosuns]

Let's look at Eric Bledsoe's season before he went down and compare it to Butler's season.

Bledsoe: 20.4 ppg, 6.1 apg, 4.0 rpg, 45.3% fg, 37.2% 3pts, 80.2% ft, 0.6 blk, 2.0 stl, 3.5 TO, 34.2 mpg

Butler: 20.9 ppg, 4.8 asp, 5.3 rpg, 45.4% fg, 31.2% 3pts, 83.2% ft, 0.6 blk, 1.6 stl, 2.0 TO, 36.9 mpg

Nearly Identical statistics. Both are 26 years old (Bledsoe a little younger). Both are signed long term. Both are two way players.

Now put this into perspective. If Eric Bledsoe was on another team, would you trade Alex Len, T.J. Warren, Archie Goodwin, P.J. Tucker, the Suns own pick, the Wizards pick, the Heat's 2017 top-7 protected pick, and the Heat's 2021 unprotected pick for him? Because that is what you are proposing the Suns do for Butler. You want to trade three of the four young building blocks and every Suns draft pick for a guy that puts up identical statistics to a player the Suns already have. Now where is the logic in that? Seriously.

[Ryu]

I think the only "star' player who is available that we may be able to get is Jimmy Butler. This kind of package works in trade machine...

Suns get-
Jimmy Butler

Bulls get-
Alex Len
TJ Warren
Archie Goodwin
PJ Tucker

Would probably have to swap picks with the Bulls as well as giving them the Wizards pick and the Heat 2017 pick. Bulls don't get any long term contracts (ex. Knight) and they can start a rebuild and try to land a top pick in 2017 which is supposedly a super deep draft.

Jimmy is worth a heck of a lot more than Len/Warren (plus throw ins). You're going to have to include Booker and maybe the WAS pick for them to consider it.

So, you think Booker, Len, Warren, WAS pick and us downgrading from the 5th to the 14th pick for Butler is a fair deal for the Bulls to consider it? No offence, lilfishi, but that kind of package I wouldn`t give for Anthony Davis, let alone Jimmy Butler.

In my opinion, offer of TJ Warren (player I like a lot, who can be a premium scorer for years to come in this league) and the 5th pick (Bulls can pick their future starting PG there - Dunn or Murray) for an all star player with question marks about his personality and the 14th pick is just about fine.

[Qwigglez]

Let's look at Eric Bledsoe's season before he went down and compare it to Butler's season.

Bledsoe: 20.4 ppg, 6.1 apg, 4.0 rpg, 45.3% fg, 37.2% 3pts, 80.2% ft, 0.6 blk, 2.0 stl, 3.5 TO, 34.2 mpg

Butler: 20.9 ppg, 4.8 asp, 5.3 rpg, 45.4% fg, 31.2% 3pts, 83.2% ft, 0.6 blk, 1.6 stl, 2.0 TO, 36.9 mpg

Nearly Identical statistics. Both are 26 years old (Bledsoe a little younger). Both are signed long term. Both are two way players.

Now put this into perspective. If Eric Bledsoe was on another team, would you trade Alex Len, T.J. Warren, Archie Goodwin, P.J. Tucker, the Suns own pick, the Wizards pick, the Heat's 2017 top-7 protected pick, and the Heat's 2021 unprotected pick for him? Because that is what you are proposing the Suns do for Butler. You want to trade three of the four young building blocks and every Suns draft pick for a guy that puts up identical statistics to a player the Suns already have. Now where is the logic in that? Seriously.

I hear ya man but everyone is saying we can't make a deal unless we include Booker in almost any trade that involves us getting an all-star and I most certainly am not trading Booker before we are trading away the Heat's 2021 pick. For all we know, Lebron goes back to Miami and that pick becomes a late 1st (or the exact opposite and Miami sucks that year, IDK).
Anyway, I wasn't saying I would trade all those assets for Jimmy, I'm just trying to start up a debate on whether or not it's a good deal for both teams. I'm actually not a huge fan of Butler, I feel like he has a big ego and isn't very bright. His shot, is similar to Bledsoe, super streaky and not a pure shot. I think he'd compliment Bledsoe and Booker pretty well though, and I would thoroughly enjoy all the nicknames and commentaries we could come up with the triple B crew (Book with the bullet to BledBut!). Our team would also have pretty lethal perimeter defense, and we'd probably be able to lure someone like Al Horford here too at that point.

[Qwigglez]

So, you think Booker, Len, Warren, WAS pick and us downgrading from the 5th to the 14th pick for Butler is a fair deal for the Bulls to consider it? No offence, lilfishi, but that kind of package I wouldn`t give for Anthony Davis, let alone Jimmy Butler.

In my opinion, offer of TJ Warren (player I like a lot, who can be a premium scorer for years to come in this league) and the 5th pick (Bulls can pick their future starting PG there - Dunn or Murray) for an all star player with question marks about his personality and the 14th pick is just about fine.

I agree, but I feel like many fans of other teams don't know what Warren is capable of. I checked out the Bulls forum and it seems the best offer for Jimmy is from Boston and that is Smart/Brookyln picks for Butler. I think Smart sucks, and we can offer a comparable package and also the Bulls don't have to see Butler four times a year.

[letsgosuns]

Let's look at Eric Bledsoe's season before he went down and compare it to Butler's season.

Bledsoe: 20.4 ppg, 6.1 apg, 4.0 rpg, 45.3% fg, 37.2% 3pts, 80.2% ft, 0.6 blk, 2.0 stl, 3.5 TO, 34.2 mpg

Butler: 20.9 ppg, 4.8 asp, 5.3 rpg, 45.4% fg, 31.2% 3pts, 83.2% ft, 0.6 blk, 1.6 stl, 2.0 TO, 36.9 mpg

Nearly Identical statistics. Both are 26 years old (Bledsoe a little younger). Both are signed long term. Both are two way players.

Now put this into perspective. If Eric Bledsoe was on another team, would you trade Alex Len, T.J. Warren, Archie Goodwin, P.J. Tucker, the Suns own pick, the Wizards pick, the Heat's 2017 top-7 protected pick, and the Heat's 2021 unprotected pick for him? Because that is what you are proposing the Suns do for Butler. You want to trade three of the four young building blocks and every Suns draft pick for a guy that puts up identical statistics to a player the Suns already have. Now where is the logic in that? Seriously.

I hear ya man but everyone is saying we can't make a deal unless we include Booker in almost any trade that involves us getting an all-star and I most certainly am not trading Booker before we are trading away the Heat's 2021 pick. For all we know, Lebron goes back to Miami and that pick becomes a late 1st (or the exact opposite and Miami sucks that year, IDK).
Anyway, I wasn't saying I would trade all those assets for Jimmy, I'm just trying to start up a debate on whether or not it's a good deal for both teams. I'm actually not a huge fan of Butler, I feel like he has a big ego and isn't very bright. His shot, is similar to Bledsoe, super streaky and not a pure shot. I think he'd compliment Bledsoe and Booker pretty well though, and I would thoroughly enjoy all the nicknames and commentaries we could come up with the triple B crew (Book with the bullet to BledBut!). Our team would also have pretty lethal perimeter defense, and we'd probably be able to lure someone like Al Horford here too at that point.

Yeah if a team asks for Booker, I just hang up the phone. Trading him is pointless. He is everything that the Suns want in a young player. A perfect situation to look at is what happened to the Warriors. The Wolves asked for Klay Thompson in a trade for Kevin Love. We all know how that worked out.

I would do the Suns pick, Cleveland's pick, and Knight plus filler (not Warren or Len) for Butler. That is a great package. I would not even add in the Wizards pick because McDonough has already proven he can draft so well anywhere in the draft. If the Bulls are not interested, so be it. The trade does not go through. Do not forget that the Bulls could not even get into the playoffs in the East with Butler, Rose, and Gasol. What are the Suns going to do in the West if they dismantle the roster for Butler. They will not go anywhere. Plus the Bulls are the ones supposedly interested in trading Jimmy Butler. Their team is old and injury prone and they might want to rebuild. Butler criticized their coach this year too. There is a realistic chance he could be available but again I am not willing to give up like 5+ assets for him.

[Qwigglez]

^I don't think that's enough though. If I were the Bulls I would certainly say no. Suns pick/ Wiz pick + Warren is a good starting point. If Knight is included we have to give up more assets just because of his contract, plus he would certainly give the Bulls an additional + 4-5 wins taking them out of a top 3 pick. Now if we were able to swing a three team trade, let's say we get the Nets involved, and do something like this...
Suns get-
Jimmy + Bulls pick
Bulls get-
Warren / Jack / Larkin + Suns pick / Wiz pick
Nets get-
Knight

I think that is plausible, but at the same time I don't think the Bulls are in any rush to get rid of Butler. Only reason they would be is because he is clashing with the front office and they want to start the rebuild immediately.

[letsgosuns]

You guys should read this article from a Bulls fan site favoring trading Butler and listing trade partners and the packages it would take for the Bulls to part with him. It is so much less than what some of you guys are proposing it is not even funny. They even list Sacramento as a potential destination and say they would be ecstatic if they got a package of the 8th pick in the draft plus Willie Cauley-Stein for Butler, Gibson, and Dunleavy. https://pippenainteasy.com/2016/04/25/bulls-trade-scenarios-jimmy-butler-celtics-twolves-sacramento/

[Qwigglez]

Remember when I said Jimmy doesn't seem like the smartest player? (I actually said this in the first game we played against them this season) Well here is an article written by a Bulls retired mod..

http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bulls-confidential/2016/04/how-jimmy-butler-can-continue-to-improve/

Kind of reminds me of Bledsoe to be honest.

[Damkac]

Let's look at Eric Bledsoe's season before he went down and compare it to Butler's season.

Bledsoe: 20.4 ppg, 6.1 apg, 4.0 rpg, 45.3% fg, 37.2% 3pts, 80.2% ft, 0.6 blk, 2.0 stl, 3.5 TO, 34.2 mpg

Butler: 20.9 ppg, 4.8 asp, 5.3 rpg, 45.4% fg, 31.2% 3pts, 83.2% ft, 0.6 blk, 1.6 stl, 2.0 TO, 36.9 mpg

Nearly Identical statistics. Both are 26 years old (Bledsoe a little younger). Both are signed long term. Both are two way players.

Now put this into perspective. If Eric Bledsoe was on another team, would you trade Alex Len, T.J. Warren, Archie Goodwin, P.J. Tucker, the Suns own pick, the Wizards pick, the Heat's 2017 top-7 protected pick, and the Heat's 2021 unprotected pick for him? Because that is what you are proposing the Suns do for Butler. You want to trade three of the four young building blocks and every Suns draft pick for a guy that puts up identical statistics to a player the Suns already have. Now where is the logic in that? Seriously.

Looking at those stats it's shocking how low people on GB value Bledsoe:
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1438161
I know he has injury history and plays on the deepest position but come on!
I wonder how would it look if Butler was playing on Suns and Bledsoe was on Bulls.