Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4)

[Mark_83]

Been a while since this guy's been talked always found him interesting. A stretch 4 or small-ball center who is tough and good defensively. He's only 6'8 but I think his wingspan 7'2-7'3.

http://www.nbadraft.net/european-stock-watch-4

Guerschon Yabusele (95’, 6-8, PF, France, Rouen)

His team is struggling, but Yabusele is the last one to blame for that. Rouen is at the 17th place between 18 teams with a record of 5 wins and 25 loses, but this hasn’t stopped the French power forward, who has exploded over the past month. Yabusele took a step forward in April, scoring a lot more, without losing in efficiency and he continued to rebound at a high level. He is a bit undersized for a power forward, but everything he lacks in height he makes up for it with his length, energy, athleticism and passion, things that everybody wants to see from an energy forward. It remains to be seen where all these will lead him on draft night, but we have been high on him all year and still consider him a first rounder, as he was pegged last summer in Treviso.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMk56RR4oyI[/youtube]

[BoyzNTheHood]

I legit wonder if Masai would draft Dunn if he was the player that fell to our pick....

If he didn't I'd spazz. Dunn is probably my favourite player in the whole draft.

[CoachJReturns]

I'll say this, if Skal looks like he's been working on his strength/size since the year ended Masai should consider him. If it looks like he isn't making an effort to be better prepared for the physical aspect of the game inside, then I don't want him on this team.

[BoyzNTheHood]

I'll say this, if Skal looks like he's been working on his strength/size since the year ended Masai should consider him. If it looks like he isn't making an effort to be better prepared for the physical aspect of the game inside, then I don't want him on this team.

One thing to consider is strength over mass. We don't want him putting on unnecessary weight, just add strength and be wiry strong.

[TheGoodDoctor]

I only threw out that question about Dunn not based on his own talents but the fact we have Lowry, CoJo and Wright at the position. Personally I like his game too but with the glut of PGs and that he isn't projected to be the next say "Westbrook, Curry or Paul" will Masai jump at him?! I just have some doubt he will. He reminds of something between a poorman's Wall to amped up Wright. I'm not sure that will be enough for Masai to jump at adding a 4th PG especially when the 2 backups we have already have a chemistry with teammates as well. Should be interesting to see if it were to happen but would I draft him?! Absolutely but I won't lie Luwawu and Skal would have me torn with similar upside at positions of need...that's all I'm getting at.

[Kevin Willis]

The issue with Skal is in his head. I do not want. Who is this guy?


His physical gifts are impossible to ignore, and are clearly a huge part in what makes him such a special talent. 6-10, with a pterodactyl wingspan and freakish athleticism, there are very few players in the NBA he can be compared to. He used his athleticism to make a number of unbelievable plays throughout the week, particularly utilizing his length around the rim.

What makes Him unique is his ability to create his own shot from the perimeter at his size, or operate as a super fluid one-man fast break. He possesses a devastating first step and excellent ball-handling skills, to go along with great coordination and extremely advanced footwork. It's not rare to see him tap-dancing his way to the basket with the greatest of ease, often throwing in lightning quick spin-moves along the way, only to stop on a dime and then pivot in the opposite direction for an effortless finish.

Thanks to his size, he also has the ability to rise up and get his shot off almost whenever he pleases, and he indeed showed a very nice turnaround jumper he can use to bail himself out when he gets himself into trouble.

...it’s hard not to be impressed by the physical tools, reactivity and nose for the ball he shows coming up with blocks, getting in the passing lanes, grabbing offensive rebounds...

[cammac]

The last thing this team needs is a development player like Skal who has huge questions about his motivation and real skill over downstream potential. We have invested 2 years in Bruno and likely one more for him to be considered a productive player. Also think Luwawu is over rated on this board he would be fine at SG but don't see him playing SF.

If it is true that Saric is coming over, I would trade Ross, 9th & 27th for Saric, 24th & 26th.

[BoyzNTheHood]

It's been discussed to death at this point yet those who never watched Skal continue to speak about what they don't know. His issue isn't in his head, it's with his inability to stay on the court whether it's because of foul trouble or Cal's desire to bench him (like Casey and Jonas). His foul issue is much like Chriss who many of those same people are drooling over. It's much like AMIR JOHNSON who couldn't stay on the court to save his life as a young Raptor. Fouling issues are experience issues. Skal is relatively new to basketball. With time comes experience. And being a pro, all he'll have is time to learn.

[Dr Positivity]

Someone needs to sell me on Davis.

He just seems like a smallball C or something to me, despite having a decent touch he doesn't really seem all that skilled imo. For all this talk of Ulis setting up Skal...majority of what I've seen of Davis it seems Valentine did that even more so with him and when he wasn't set up a lot of baskets came as a result of a putbacks, drop offs or the occasional back down on smaller looking PFs; not exactly tantalizing stuff. I'm not criticizing the kid, I just really haven't seen anything that wows me. He doesn't have great quickness and actually looks pretty slow for a PF from what I've seen but does have a strong looking base and length that makes me think he could become a C but again doesn't look like anything exceptional as I don't see any advanced footwork.

To me he just looks like a kid with some development could be a solid starter but I really don't see any star potential. Somebody help me out here....what am I missing here that has so many considering him with our pick? I'd even take Chriss ahead of him at this point.

I don't think the team who drafts Davis will be looking for a home run, just a defensively capable prospect (he blocked a lot of shots and had good lateral mobility) who finishes efficiently at the rim. He is also a 19 year old who put up 16 pts/40 so I don't think he's broken when it comes to his skill game, possibly a few years from now he's hitting midrange shots. I'm not the biggest fan though.

[Kevin Willis]

It's been discussed to death at this point yet those who never watched Skal continue to speak about what they don't know. His issue isn't in his head, it's with his inability to stay on the court whether it's because of foul trouble or Cal's desire to bench him (like Casey and Jonas). His foul issue is much like Chriss who many of those same people are drooling over. It's much like AMIR JOHNSON who couldn't stay on the court to save his life as a young Raptor. Fouling issues are experience issues. Skal is relatively new to basketball. With time comes experience. And being a pro, all he'll have is time to learn.

I've seen games with Skal in high school. How can you let your coach get in your head to make you play that way. Many bigs have fouling issues, I don't even care about that. Skal is not that new to basketball - he's been on the radar of scouts for a long time now. Chriss is new to basketball because he was not highly ranked.

Cal thought he can be Towns but Towns is a beast mentally. In other words Skal is not... So Cal thought Skal thought he had the tools to do what Towns could but he didn't have the make-up. That's a red flag to me and not worthy of our pick.

Also two teams gave up on Amir before he got it right. I can see the same happening to Skal and Amir was always a tough son of a gun. Lastly they will have different roles on a team. Skal is a skilled big while Amir is a lunch pail big that does the dirty work. If Skal not showing his skill is like Amir not giving effort - it hurts their game.

[Dr Positivity]

With Luwawu Iunderstand why the talent is appealing to people, but the more I look at it, the more it seems worrisome that he just hasn't been that productive. As an almost 21 year old in the Adriatic league he is shooting under 40% FG and is around 16.5 PER ... wasn't all that hot in the French B either last season. On the other hand Ante Zizic just turned 19 and is 6th in the Adriatic in PER (24.2) and there's been a history of really productive C prospects lately (Nurkic, Jokic, Jonas, Gobert, Capela, etc.) translating. Not the most exciting talent in the world but he looks to be a good athlete who can roll to the rim, finish and is a good FT shooter. He could be a steal

[cammac]

With Luwawu Iunderstand why the talent is appealing to people, but the more I look at it, the more it seems worrisome that he just hasn't been that productive. As an almost 21 year old in the Adriatic league he is shooting under 40% FG and is around 16.5 PER ... wasn't all that hot in the French B either last season. On the other hand Ante Zizic just turned 19 and is 6th in the Adriatic in PER (24.2) and there's been a history of really productive C prospects lately (Nurkic, Jokic, Jonas, Gobert, Capela, etc.) translating. Not the most exciting talent in the world but he looks to be a good athlete who can roll to the rim, finish and is a good FT shooter. He could be a steal

Agree with you Zizic and Hernangomez are my picks for 27th with Zizic having starter upside and Hernamgomez being that good tweener SF & PF role player.

[CoachJReturns]

I'll say this, if Skal looks like he's been working on his strength/size since the year ended Masai should consider him. If it looks like he isn't making an effort to be better prepared for the physical aspect of the game inside, then I don't want him on this team.

One thing to consider is strength over mass. We don't want him putting on unnecessary weight, just add strength and be wiry strong.

That's why I didn't just say size, but given how scrawny he is I think it's safe to assume he'd gain a couple pounds at least if he was lifting weights and eating enough. He's always going to be lanky, but his build in college was far from even being ready to compete with other college kids.
I'm a trainer and was a serious hard gainer by the way, so my expectations are relatively reasonable. If he can just show that his strength has shown some modest improvement and it will be enough to have cause for some optimism. It would likely take a few years for him to reach his ideal playing weight, whatever it may be. I'd stay away from him if his body seemed exactly the same in workouts, however.

[CoachJReturns]

With Luwawu Iunderstand why the talent is appealing to people, but the more I look at it, the more it seems worrisome that he just hasn't been that productive. As an almost 21 year old in the Adriatic league he is shooting under 40% FG and is around 16.5 PER ... wasn't all that hot in the French B either last season. On the other hand Ante Zizic just turned 19 and is 6th in the Adriatic in PER (24.2) and there's been a history of really productive C prospects lately (Nurkic, Jokic, Jonas, Gobert, Capela, etc.) translating. Not the most exciting talent in the world but he looks to be a good athlete who can roll to the rim, finish and is a good FT shooter. He could be a steal

Agree with you Zizic and Hernangomez are my picks for 27th with Zizic having starter upside and Hernamgomez being that good tweener SF & PF role player.

Hernangomez seems a likely choice at 27 if Masai doesn't trade the pick. Only so many roster spots available, so draft and stash will definitely be considered. I'm not even sure who I like of the US guys available in that range. Maker is the raw/potential guy there, but his offense is pretty mechanical.

[BoyzNTheHood]

It's been discussed to death at this point yet those who never watched Skal continue to speak about what they don't know. His issue isn't in his head, it's with his inability to stay on the court whether it's because of foul trouble or Cal's desire to bench him (like Casey and Jonas). His foul issue is much like Chriss who many of those same people are drooling over. It's much like AMIR JOHNSON who couldn't stay on the court to save his life as a young Raptor. Fouling issues are experience issues. Skal is relatively new to basketball. With time comes experience. And being a pro, all he'll have is time to learn.

I've seen games with Skal in high school. How can you let your coach get in your head to make you play that way. Many bigs have fouling issues, I don't even care about that. Skal is not that new to basketball - he's been on the radar of scouts for a long time now. Chriss is new to basketball because he was not highly ranked.

Cal thought he can be Towns but Towns is a beast mentally. In other words Skal is not... So Cal thought Skal thought he had the tools to do what Towns could but he didn't have the make-up. That's a red flag to me and not worthy of our pick.

Also two teams gave up on Amir before he got it right. I can see the same happening to Skal and Amir was always a tough son of a gun. Lastly they will have different roles on a team. Skal is a skilled big while Amir is a lunch pail big that does the dirty work. If Skal not showing his skill is like Amir not giving effort - it hurts their game.

When the coach thinks you're something you're not it's going to get into your head. If you don't play the way he wants you to he'll bench you, which is exactly what happened. Skal is not KAT, not even close. KAT is a special talent and if Skal were as good as KAT he'd be the undoubted #1.

The Amir comparison is in terms of foul trouble and being able to stay on the court. Amir had that issue, and so does Skal. As a matter of fact, JV has that problem against Indiana right now. Bigs like Skal who block shots will get in foul trouble when they're young. Help defense leaves you prone to fouls until you learn how to do it more effectively.

[TheGoodDoctor]

The last thing this team needs is a development player like Skal who has huge questions about his motivation and real skill over downstream potential. We have invested 2 years in Bruno and likely one more for him to be considered a productive player. Also think Luwawu is over rated on this board he would be fine at SG but don't see him playing SF.

If it is true that Saric is coming over, I would trade Ross, 9th & 27th for Saric, 24th & 26th.

I'm not sure why people keep proposing trading for more picks because it's been repeated to death that Masai has said numerous times he doesn't think he has the roster space for all the picks he already has. You think he's going to dedicate more than half the roster to rookie and sophomore players??

Powell, Wright, Bruno, Saric, 24th, 26th, and then next year LAC & our own (nvm 2nd rdrs)....7 first or 2nd yr players...

Yeah not happening.

Can we all please let go of the idea of trading down or for multiple picks??

[Kevin Willis]

It's been discussed to death at this point yet those who never watched Skal continue to speak about what they don't know. His issue isn't in his head, it's with his inability to stay on the court whether it's because of foul trouble or Cal's desire to bench him (like Casey and Jonas). His foul issue is much like Chriss who many of those same people are drooling over. It's much like AMIR JOHNSON who couldn't stay on the court to save his life as a young Raptor. Fouling issues are experience issues. Skal is relatively new to basketball. With time comes experience. And being a pro, all he'll have is time to learn.

I've seen games with Skal in high school. How can you let your coach get in your head to make you play that way. Many bigs have fouling issues, I don't even care about that. Skal is not that new to basketball - he's been on the radar of scouts for a long time now. Chriss is new to basketball because he was not highly ranked.

Cal thought he can be Towns but Towns is a beast mentally. In other words Skal is not... So Cal thought Skal thought he had the tools to do what Towns could but he didn't have the make-up. That's a red flag to me and not worthy of our pick.

Also two teams gave up on Amir before he got it right. I can see the same happening to Skal and Amir was always a tough son of a gun. Lastly they will have different roles on a team. Skal is a skilled big while Amir is a lunch pail big that does the dirty work. If Skal not showing his skill is like Amir not giving effort - it hurts their game.

When the coach thinks you're something you're not it's going to get into your head. If you don't play the way he wants you to he'll bench you, which is exactly what happened. Skal is not KAT, not even close. KAT is a special talent and if Skal were as good as KAT he'd be the undoubted #1.

The Amir comparison is in terms of foul trouble and being able to stay on the court. Amir had that issue, and so does Skal. As a matter of fact, JV has that problem against Indiana right now. Bigs like Skal who block shots will get in foul trouble when they're young. Help defense leaves you prone to fouls until you learn how to do it more effectively.

Actually I agree with you 100%. Cal made the mistake for thinking he was Towns but Skal was projected as No. 1 pick at the start of the year. So everyone was wrong about what he could become. That's not good.

Foul trouble is not a big thing for me. Skal is a help defender but a weak man to man defender. I think he will pick up more fouls trying to guard post PFs. He's a big risk and I'm not sure the reward is there.

[cammac]

The last thing this team needs is a development player like Skal who has huge questions about his motivation and real skill over downstream potential. We have invested 2 years in Bruno and likely one more for him to be considered a productive player. Also think Luwawu is over rated on this board he would be fine at SG but don't see him playing SF.

If it is true that Saric is coming over, I would trade Ross, 9th & 27th for Saric, 24th & 26th.

I'm not sure why people keep proposing trading for more picks because it's been repeated to death that Masai has said numerous times he doesn't think he has the roster space for all the picks he already has. You think he's going to dedicate more than half the roster to rookie and sophomore players??

Powell, Wright, Bruno, Saric, 24th, 26th, and then next year LAC & our own (nvm 2nd rdrs)....7 first or 2nd yr players...

Yeah not happening.

Can we all please let go of the idea of trading down or for multiple picks??

Picks are gold in this era of average players being paid outrageous amounts of money. Right now Powell isn't a prospect anymore at very worst a solid role player and Wright looks to be close behind. Saric obviously is classified as a rookie but he has been playing in Europe hardly a raw rookie. Bruno is the only player that is going to spend time in D League next year and I see Bebe moved. If we take a couple of Euro players giving them time to develop in Euro on foul and for all you know they might turn out to be studs the only minor downside is we have to keep there minimum salaries on our books.

So I hardly see a downside for the Raptors unless you have been told by Masai his plans and are taking a public statement as fact you have absolutely no idea of his plans.

[TheGoodDoctor]

The last thing this team needs is a development player like Skal who has huge questions about his motivation and real skill over downstream potential. We have invested 2 years in Bruno and likely one more for him to be considered a productive player. Also think Luwawu is over rated on this board he would be fine at SG but don't see him playing SF.

If it is true that Saric is coming over, I would trade Ross, 9th & 27th for Saric, 24th & 26th.

I'm not sure why people keep proposing trading for more picks because it's been repeated to death that Masai has said numerous times he doesn't think he has the roster space for all the picks he already has. You think he's going to dedicate more than half the roster to rookie and sophomore players??

Powell, Wright, Bruno, Saric, 24th, 26th, and then next year LAC & our own (nvm 2nd rdrs)....7 first or 2nd yr players...

Yeah not happening.

Can we all please let go of the idea of trading down or for multiple picks??

Picks are gold in this era of average players being paid outrageous amounts of money. Right now Powell isn't a prospect anymore at very worst a solid role player and Wright looks to be close behind. Saric obviously is classified as a rookie but he has been playing in Europe hardly a raw rookie. Bruno is the only player that is going to spend time in D League next year and I see Bebe moved. If we take a couple of Euro players giving them time to develop in Euro on foul and for all you know they might turn out to be studs the only minor downside is we have to keep there minimum salaries on our books.

So I hardly see a downside for the Raptors unless you have been told by Masai his plans and are taking a public statement as fact you have absolutely no idea of his plans.

Well it's nice in theory to say "just stash them in Europe" but that's also narrowing the selection down to overseas players for each of the 2 newly obtained picks. You're also making an assumption of your own that Masai would want to move Ross despite him obviously having enough faith in him to dull out a $11M/yr contract and him giving up a 9th pick that could easily turn out to be as good or better than Saric and for all Masai knows he busts out. But even as you pointed out these players are on our salary and roster and again you're dismissing that it would be more the half the roster on players with less than 2 years experience in the league. While I may not "know" for certain, I like my odds better than yours.

[BoyzNTheHood]

I've seen games with Skal in high school. How can you let your coach get in your head to make you play that way. Many bigs have fouling issues, I don't even care about that. Skal is not that new to basketball - he's been on the radar of scouts for a long time now. Chriss is new to basketball because he was not highly ranked.

Cal thought he can be Towns but Towns is a beast mentally. In other words Skal is not... So Cal thought Skal thought he had the tools to do what Towns could but he didn't have the make-up. That's a red flag to me and not worthy of our pick.

Also two teams gave up on Amir before he got it right. I can see the same happening to Skal and Amir was always a tough son of a gun. Lastly they will have different roles on a team. Skal is a skilled big while Amir is a lunch pail big that does the dirty work. If Skal not showing his skill is like Amir not giving effort - it hurts their game.

When the coach thinks you're something you're not it's going to get into your head. If you don't play the way he wants you to he'll bench you, which is exactly what happened. Skal is not KAT, not even close. KAT is a special talent and if Skal were as good as KAT he'd be the undoubted #1.

The Amir comparison is in terms of foul trouble and being able to stay on the court. Amir had that issue, and so does Skal. As a matter of fact, JV has that problem against Indiana right now. Bigs like Skal who block shots will get in foul trouble when they're young. Help defense leaves you prone to fouls until you learn how to do it more effectively.

Actually I agree with you 100%. Cal made the mistake for thinking he was Towns but Skal was projected as No. 1 pick at the start of the year. So everyone was wrong about what he could become. That's not good.

Foul trouble is not a big thing for me. Skal is a help defender but a weak man to man defender. I think he will pick up more fouls trying to guard post PFs. He's a big risk and I'm not sure the reward is there.

That's Cal's problem if he can't scout his recruit effectively enough to know what he is. You can watch Skal for 2 minutes and know that he doesn't have the same game as KAT. Skal is much more Ibaka than KAT.

He can't defend one on one because he's frail. NBA weight rooms and strength trainers will change that. If you don't think a potential Serge Ibaka is a good reward at 9 then there's nothing else to discuss.