The Trade-Mill - Trade Thread Part Infinity

[djFan71]

I think this is the year Danny needs to commit a little one way or the other. The balancing win now / development / picks / salary flexibility period is over. We either cash in on non-guaranteed contracts and picks and young guys to go for it with stars, which is what everyone is clamoring for. Or, there's the option of selling off some win now assets and going young(er). If you get a top 2 -3 pick, and maybe pluck another up & comer with later picks (or consolidation thereof) it may make sense to reset a little and optimize your window for the prime of these new guys. Wouldn't be the most popular approach, but could be better in the long term if you can't land the big fish(es) this year.

Last thing I want is another year in the middle. Too good to develop the young guys, not good enough to be a legit playoff threat.

[galipeautim]

I think this is the year Danny needs to commit a little one way or the other. The balancing win now / development / picks / salary flexibility period is over. We either cash in on non-guaranteed contracts and picks and young guys to go for it with stars, which is what everyone is clamoring for. Or, there's the option of selling off some win now assets and going young(er). If you get a top 2 -3 pick, and maybe pluck another up & comer with later picks (or consolidation thereof) it may make sense to reset a little and optimize your window for the prime of these new guys. Wouldn't be the most popular approach, but could be better in the long term if you can't land the big fish(es) this year.

Last thing I want is another year in the middle. Too good to develop the young guys, not good enough to be a legit playoff threat.

Get younger? Everybody on our team is in their prime for the next 5+ year. Why are you assuming these guys are in the middle next year? Track record shows they've drastically increased wins the last two years. Was this year not fun for you? I had as much fun watching this team as I did in 2008/2009.

Let's continue to build using Brooklyn's three lottery picks. None of our players are close to exiting their prime. If we happen to land a star free agent that's great, but track record shows we haven't done that in 20+ years. Other teams might be willing to trade young players, but not their blue chip guys. It's not like the Wolves are about to trade us Towns for anything we have. Stay the course and we will be fine. Let's not toss our draft picks and good players away for the Devin Booker's of the world.

[FlatearthZorro]

Btw, it will be interesting to see whether the Heat sign Whiteside or not. He'd look fantastic in C's uniform.

[Froob]

The names to look out for this offseason are the following:

Blake Griffin- Clippers need to shake things up. Danny would roll the dice on a deal for Blake as he knows he's a superstar when healthy and could be #2 on a title team. Might need 3rd team to get this done

Marc Gasol- Buy low opportunity if Conley were to walk.

Jimmy Butler- Ainge loves him...But what's the price?

Trade for Blake, sign Durant, sign Horford.

IT-Bradley-Durant-Griffin-Horford

Durant? You don't think he's signing a 1+1?

Thanks for your thoughts. I hope the Bulls FO **** up and sends Butler to us for pennies.

I think it all depends on how far the Thunder go. If they lose to the Spurs I think Durant will end up leaving and coming to the East with either the Celtics or Knicks. If they make it to the finals, or win the finals then I could absolutely see if doing a 1 & 1....only downside with that approach is stability. If he gets injured his max value goes out the door.

This based on just your feeling or a little bit of insider info? Durant would be something....
We need a sweep.

[Fencer reregistered]

The stories of Harden putting himself way ahead of his team seem pretty persuasive to me. I'd be very reluctant to pay a high price to acquire him.

The stories of Cousins repeatedly defying authority seem pretty persuasive to me. Before acquiring him I'd want a way to get confidence that he wouldn't defy Stevens and (where relevant) Ainge.

The fact of Griffin having a regrettably hot temper worries me less.

Butler's struggles with being a leader vs. not being a leader worry me less yet.

[TheRev72]

Apart from illustrating Avery Bradley's actual value to this team (really, really high), the thing that the postseason made clear is that the Celtics need (a) more shooting and (b) more capable, frontcourt help. I think that continues to make Kevin Love an obvious target since he checks both boxes.

[TheRev72]

After the Cavs get hammered by the Spurs or Warriors in the Finals, I still maintain the obvious pre-draft trade is: Amir + Jerebko + picks to the Knicks, Carmelo to the Cavs, and Love to the Celtics.

Knicks get picks to use to build around Porzingis and cut Melo's salary (by declining options on Amir and Jerebko). Cavs swap Love (who's been an awkward fit there from the get-go) for LeBron's buddy Melo, who waives his trade clause to get out of a rebuild. Celtics get Love and use that trade to go hard after Durant in free agency.

My only qualm is this year's Nets pick, obviously. You can't send that pick to the Knicks if it's 1 or 2 (that's too much value to them for Melo).

[klemen4]

My only qualm is this year's Nets pick, obviously. You can't send that pick to the Knicks if it's 1 or 2 (that's too much value to them for Melo).

I think this years loterry will be win win...top 2 brings Simmons or Ingram...3 or lower brings another star wia trade.

Actually imo the future how building this team will go going forward will be decided May 17.

Our top players are young enough to go either way imo. This year Bradley and Crowder will be 26, Thomas 27, Smart 22, Olynyk 25...If Simmons or Ingram are pick they will need 5 years to reach their primes...can we wait for them.

Call me crazy but in way maybe not getting top 2 pick...means brighter future if a potential trade brings star player back.

[Banks2Pierce]

I think this years loterry will be win win...top 2 brings Simmons or Ingram...3 or lower brings another star wia trade.

I'm not sure this draft is good enough to be getting a star with the 4th or 5th pick. Maybe Kevin Love in a carousel with the Knicks or something.

[klemen4]

I think BRK pick in 3-5 range, plus another first rounder, plus one or two of Hunter, Young, Rozier, Mickey should be enough in a trade for NY...with Carmelo going to CLE or LAC.

[mademan]

After the Cavs get hammered by the Spurs or Warriors in the Finals, I still maintain the obvious pre-draft trade is: Amir + Jerebko + picks to the Knicks, Carmelo to the Cavs, and Love to the Celtics.

Knicks get picks to use to build around Porzingis and cut Melo's salary (by declining options on Amir and Jerebko). Cavs swap Love (who's been an awkward fit there from the get-go) for LeBron's buddy Melo, who waives his trade clause to get out of a rebuild. Celtics get Love and use that trade to go hard after Durant in free agency.

My only qualm is this year's Nets pick, obviously. You can't send that pick to the Knicks if it's 1 or 2 (that's too much value to them for Melo).

I cant see anyway the Cavs allow Boston, an up and coming team in their own conference, to acquire a star caliber player for Amir Johnson and middling picks. They might very well face Boston in the PO next year. Imagine winning the East and then losing to the team you made better the following year.

From a value standpoint, I hate Melo for Love from the Cavs side, though i get why CLE might do it (cause Lebron <3's Melo). From an organization POV, thats just untenable.

[TheRev72]

After the Cavs get hammered by the Spurs or Warriors in the Finals, I still maintain the obvious pre-draft trade is: Amir + Jerebko + picks to the Knicks, Carmelo to the Cavs, and Love to the Celtics.

Knicks get picks to use to build around Porzingis and cut Melo's salary (by declining options on Amir and Jerebko). Cavs swap Love (who's been an awkward fit there from the get-go) for LeBron's buddy Melo, who waives his trade clause to get out of a rebuild. Celtics get Love and use that trade to go hard after Durant in free agency.

My only qualm is this year's Nets pick, obviously. You can't send that pick to the Knicks if it's 1 or 2 (that's too much value to them for Melo).

I cant see anyway the Cavs allow Boston, an up and coming team in their own conference, to acquire a star caliber player for Amir Johnson and middling picks. They might very well face Boston in the PO next year. Imagine winning the East and then losing to the team you made better the following year.

From a value standpoint, I hate Melo for Love from the Cavs side, though i get why CLE might do it (cause Lebron <3's Melo). From an organization POV, thats just untenable.

Remember, LeBron is the de facto GM. He'll probably want to replace Love with Melo and then turn around and replace Kyrie with Chris Paul. And I can't see the Cavs FO denying LeBron anything he wants...

[mademan]

After the Cavs get hammered by the Spurs or Warriors in the Finals, I still maintain the obvious pre-draft trade is: Amir + Jerebko + picks to the Knicks, Carmelo to the Cavs, and Love to the Celtics.

Knicks get picks to use to build around Porzingis and cut Melo's salary (by declining options on Amir and Jerebko). Cavs swap Love (who's been an awkward fit there from the get-go) for LeBron's buddy Melo, who waives his trade clause to get out of a rebuild. Celtics get Love and use that trade to go hard after Durant in free agency.

My only qualm is this year's Nets pick, obviously. You can't send that pick to the Knicks if it's 1 or 2 (that's too much value to them for Melo).

I cant see anyway the Cavs allow Boston, an up and coming team in their own conference, to acquire a star caliber player for Amir Johnson and middling picks. They might very well face Boston in the PO next year. Imagine winning the East and then losing to the team you made better the following year.

From a value standpoint, I hate Melo for Love from the Cavs side, though i get why CLE might do it (cause Lebron <3's Melo). From an organization POV, thats just untenable.

Remember, LeBron is the de facto GM. He'll probably want to replace Love with Melo and then turn around and replace Kyrie with Chris Paul. And I can't see the Cavs FO denying LeBron anything he wants...

And I could see them finding a 3rd team from the West to facilitate the trade. I dont see them helping out a rival EC playoff team (especially for not even a guaranteed upgrade)

[ddb]

After the Cavs get hammered by the Spurs or Warriors in the Finals, I still maintain the obvious pre-draft trade is: Amir + Jerebko + picks to the Knicks, Carmelo to the Cavs, and Love to the Celtics.

Knicks get picks to use to build around Porzingis and cut Melo's salary (by declining options on Amir and Jerebko). Cavs swap Love (who's been an awkward fit there from the get-go) for LeBron's buddy Melo, who waives his trade clause to get out of a rebuild. Celtics get Love and use that trade to go hard after Durant in free agency.

My only qualm is this year's Nets pick, obviously. You can't send that pick to the Knicks if it's 1 or 2 (that's too much value to them for Melo).

dude, I think Cleveland has a good shot at winning it all. they are clicking on all cylinders right now...if healthy they can pull off an "upset" of the Spurs, Warriors or Thunder

[ddb]

I think BRK pick in 3-5 range, plus another first rounder, plus one or two of Hunter, Young, Rozier, Mickey should be enough in a trade for NY...with Carmelo going to CLE or LAC.

maybe. Cleveland would have to lose badly in the finals.....an IT-Bradley-Durant-Love-Horford lineup works for me!

[Andrew McCeltic]

Btw, it will be interesting to see whether the Heat sign Whiteside or not. He'd look fantastic in C's uniform.

Flawed player, but I could see us singing him as a fallback plan. Better bet than Greg Monroe, at least.

Kevin Love is still a possibility, but I agree Cleveland is going to come out of the east, and they've had a little bit of success with Love playing the 5.

I'd trade a 4-6 pick for Love, not a 1-3. Too many question marks at this point, about his adaptability, about how his game and psyche and health would bounce back after Cleveland.

And I hate Blake Griffin's game, I think he's really tough to build around offensively because he's a dominant pick and roll player but not a great midrange shooter or low post scorer. Rebounds alright. Defends alright. To my eye, he's not that different all around from someone like Brook Lopez, just flashier and with more hype.

[aim2please]

A non Celtics trade idea. Cousins to Toronto for package built around Valanciunas and #9 pick.

I like it for both sides. If they're gonna pay Derozan, Toronto has to go for it. Cousins is a clear upgrade over Valanciunas, team chemistry be damned. Unless Cousins is a complete cancer, this move would push Toronto closer to Cleveland, and they would have a core that's in their mid 20s.

For Sacramento, it seems they had enough. Jonas gives them the best of two worlds. If they trade Cousins, they're basically rebuilding all over again, but they still want to be somewhat competitive going into new arena.

Jonas is probably the best player they can get for Boogie, AND he's young enough that they can build around him. He signed a team friendly extension that will kick in next season.

[djFan71]

I think this is the year Danny needs to commit a little one way or the other. The balancing win now / development / picks / salary flexibility period is over. We either cash in on non-guaranteed contracts and picks and young guys to go for it with stars, which is what everyone is clamoring for. Or, there's the option of selling off some win now assets and going young(er). If you get a top 2 -3 pick, and maybe pluck another up & comer with later picks (or consolidation thereof) it may make sense to reset a little and optimize your window for the prime of these new guys. Wouldn't be the most popular approach, but could be better in the long term if you can't land the big fish(es) this year.

Last thing I want is another year in the middle. Too good to develop the young guys, not good enough to be a legit playoff threat.

Get younger? Everybody on our team is in their prime for the next 5+ year. Why are you assuming these guys are in the middle next year? Track record shows they've drastically increased wins the last two years. Was this year not fun for you? I had as much fun watching this team as I did in 2008/2009.

Let's continue to build using Brooklyn's three lottery picks. None of our players are close to exiting their prime. If we happen to land a star free agent that's great, but track record shows we haven't done that in 20+ years. Other teams might be willing to trade young players, but not their blue chip guys. It's not like the Wolves are about to trade us Towns for anything we have. Stay the course and we will be fine. Let's not toss our draft picks and good players away for the Devin Booker's of the world.

This season was fun, loved watching this team. But Danny & Brad have been straddling multiple paths and not committing - which ultimately hurts. Playing Turner, Amir, Sully, Jerebko is a win now move, but you don't develop Rozier, Mickey, Hunter, Young as much while doing that. And we have 8 more picks. I'm not remotely saying toss them. If we can get current stars entering their prime via FA \ trade, great. If not, and you get a Simmons\Ingram, are you really going to want Turner taking his (and Rozier's and Hunter's) time? Or we get Bender, are you playing Sully & KO ahead of him? That's what I'm talking about. If Danny strikes out in FA/trades and we end up with all these young guys - commit to playing them at that point.

[galipeautim]

I think this is the year Danny needs to commit a little one way or the other. The balancing win now / development / picks / salary flexibility period is over. We either cash in on non-guaranteed contracts and picks and young guys to go for it with stars, which is what everyone is clamoring for. Or, there's the option of selling off some win now assets and going young(er). If you get a top 2 -3 pick, and maybe pluck another up & comer with later picks (or consolidation thereof) it may make sense to reset a little and optimize your window for the prime of these new guys. Wouldn't be the most popular approach, but could be better in the long term if you can't land the big fish(es) this year.

Last thing I want is another year in the middle. Too good to develop the young guys, not good enough to be a legit playoff threat.

Get younger? Everybody on our team is in their prime for the next 5+ year. Why are you assuming these guys are in the middle next year? Track record shows they've drastically increased wins the last two years. Was this year not fun for you? I had as much fun watching this team as I did in 2008/2009.

Let's continue to build using Brooklyn's three lottery picks. None of our players are close to exiting their prime. If we happen to land a star free agent that's great, but track record shows we haven't done that in 20+ years. Other teams might be willing to trade young players, but not their blue chip guys. It's not like the Wolves are about to trade us Towns for anything we have. Stay the course and we will be fine. Let's not toss our draft picks and good players away for the Devin Booker's of the world.

This season was fun, loved watching this team. But Danny & Brad have been straddling multiple paths and not committing - which ultimately hurts. Playing Turner, Amir, Sully, Jerebko is a win now move, but you don't develop Rozier, Mickey, Hunter, Young as much while doing that. And we have 8 more picks. I'm not remotely saying toss them. If we can get current stars entering their prime via FA \ trade, great. If not, and you get a Simmons\Ingram, are you really going to want Turner taking his (and Rozier's and Hunter's) time? Or we get Bender, are you playing Sully & KO ahead of him? That's what I'm talking about. If Danny strikes out in FA/trades and we end up with all these young guys - commit to playing them at that point.

Stevens has taken the same approach as the Spurs. For young guys they have to absolutely earn their minutes before they play. More talented young players very often sit behind less talented older players. It took Kawhi Leonard, Danny Green, George Hill and a bunch of other guys years to showcase their talents. But guess what...they are just as good today, or better, as they would have been if they played 30+ minutes on day 1. If Mickey or Rozier or the other young guys want to get minutes then they can work their butt off and earn it. I hate the idea that guys should get minutes just because they are young. You put the five guys on the court that best help you win each particular game. If the rookies had been one of those guys then they would have been on the court. In fact, Rozier was playing some meaningful minutes even before Bradley was injured so my guess is he's improving and might see more minutes next year.

[djFan71]

Spoiler:

Get younger? Everybody on our team is in their prime for the next 5+ year. Why are you assuming these guys are in the middle next year? Track record shows they've drastically increased wins the last two years. Was this year not fun for you? I had as much fun watching this team as I did in 2008/2009.

Let's continue to build using Brooklyn's three lottery picks. None of our players are close to exiting their prime. If we happen to land a star free agent that's great, but track record shows we haven't done that in 20+ years. Other teams might be willing to trade young players, but not their blue chip guys. It's not like the Wolves are about to trade us Towns for anything we have. Stay the course and we will be fine. Let's not toss our draft picks and good players away for the Devin Booker's of the world.

This season was fun, loved watching this team. But Danny & Brad have been straddling multiple paths and not committing - which ultimately hurts. Playing Turner, Amir, Sully, Jerebko is a win now move, but you don't develop Rozier, Mickey, Hunter, Young as much while doing that. And we have 8 more picks. I'm not remotely saying toss them. If we can get current stars entering their prime via FA \ trade, great. If not, and you get a Simmons\Ingram, are you really going to want Turner taking his (and Rozier's and Hunter's) time? Or we get Bender, are you playing Sully & KO ahead of him? That's what I'm talking about. If Danny strikes out in FA/trades and we end up with all these young guys - commit to playing them at that point.

Stevens has taken the same approach as the Spurs. For young guys they have to absolutely earn their minutes before they play. More talented young players very often sit behind less talented older players. It took Kawhi Leonard, Danny Green, George Hill and a bunch of other guys years to showcase their talents. But guess what...they are just as good today, or better, as they would have been if they played 30+ minutes on day 1. If Mickey or Rozier or the other young guys want to get minutes then they can work their butt off and earn it. I hate the idea that guys should get minutes just because they are young. You put the five guys on the court that best help you win each particular game. If the rookies had been one of those guys then they would have been on the court. In fact, Rozier was playing some meaningful minutes even before Bradley was injured so my guess is he's improving and might see more minutes next year.

I don't think we're disagreeing all that much here. I'm perfectly happy with the way things have played out to this point. Danny positioned himself to have assets to improve the roster last summer and at the deadline this year if things worked out. They didn't, so we rolled with what we had. Brad did a great job coaching them, and they were fun as hell to watch, and the rookies did indeed develop and playoff experience was great.

What I'm saying is going forward it, you get diminishing returns doing that again next season. The preferred path is add a couple of legit starters with star potential via draft, trade or FA. If that happens, you are bumping a couple guys that played well this year from the rotation, right? If it doesn't happen, and you draft a bunch of young guys - at least 1 very highly rated one - added to the young guys we already have, you still gotta bump guys from the rotation to play them. There's a window to how much development can happen without playing. Rookie year / d-league, for mid to late first rounders, sure. But do you want to do that with our top draft choice? Kawhi played 24 minutes a game his rookie year. Hill & Green, sure - Terry, RJ & Mickey got that same treatment, that's fine.