Orlando Magic Free Agency Guide (Cap Info UPDATED page 37)

[Blue_and_Whte]

It's not a marginal improvement. You need to watch Butler play more. The guy takes over games and is a go to scorer. We don't have a player like that. This is why we lost so many close games. Oladipo is currently not a guy you can give the ball to and get wins with on a consistent basis.

Everyone has seen Butler play apparently except you so stop acting like he's on Durants level.

Butler
PPG: 20.9 RPG: 5.2 APG: 4.7 SPG: 1.6 BPG: 0.6 FG%: .455 FT%: .832 2P%: .490 3P%: .311 TS%: .563

Dipo
PPG: 16.0 RPG: 4.8 APG: 3.9 SPG: 1.6 BPG: 0.8 FG%: .438 FT%: .830 2P%: .475 3P%: .348 TS%: .534

Very basic stats but Oladipo could pull that off in his sleep. Butler is a marginal upgrade AT BEST. Period. In no scenario does he move the needle for this team. You're overrating him.

Just a couple of differences that stand out. Jimmy Butler is a;

- Better passer - Used to play PG and still plays PG for the Bulls at times when Drose is out. He runs the O more then the starting PG, when derrick rose, is out.)
- Better defender and can defend multiple positions including SF and small PF
- BBIQ doesn't even compare - You won't see this on the stat sheet. JB is one of those crafty and smart stars. Unlike dipo who constantly takes those stupid contested long twos and a bunch of unquestionable shots, you won't see that from JB. As good as he is, he is like a point forward. Think likes a PG and has an SF body. He has even said it in interviews that he likes to get his teammates involved in the game over his own. I love Dipo but he still thinks he is the #1 option on this team. WE will never have success with him thinking that way. He just has an array of moves that shows how smart of a player he is. Things you dont find in any of our young guys. He is just such an unselfish player for a guy of his skills that its surprising.
- Would demand multiple double teams - Something Dipo could never do. JB demands multiple double teams every game. And him being such an underrated passer, he would dish the ball out and pass around until you find the open man. Easy shot.
- CONSISTENCY! - Ah yes, the most important part. Both JB and Dipo had their month where they dropped 20+ nearly every night. The difference? JB can do this every night where Dipo can have months where he is completely off shooting 30%. He can go 10-14 one night then 5-19 the next. Lets not forget about the start of season too that sent him to the bench. That is their main and biggest difference that separates them from All Star to Starter. Victor Oladipo has yet to find a level of consistency in his game. If he could play every game the same way he did back in April, this conversation would be over and he would be an all-star in the NBA for years to come.

I could go on and on but you def havent seen enough of JB this year to say he is on par with Dipo and so far from Durant. He is prob 1 tier from Durant where Dipo is more 3-4. I love Dipo, but at this point in their careers, JB is better then him in every way and saying that Dipo will be just as good(in a year? lol) has no guarantee. Again, please prove me wrong dipo.

Now you're just posting opinions...which yeah, you could go on and on. Now he can guard PF's? ok. You one up'ed me. Don't stop there. Jimmy Butler can guard centers too. Come on... A one for one swap Dipo for Jimmy Butler does absolutely nothing for this team, you know it, I know it, you just want to see something different. There is absolutely no reason to swap those guys unless we're bringing in a REAL star along with him. I'm not going back and forth swapping opinions, we'll just wait and see. I don't even dislike Butler. I think he's a very good player, its just if we're making a move to make us serious playoff contenders, Jimmy Butler isn't the answer imo especially if it involves losing two promising young players and a picks. Dude isn't THAT good.

[NavalAviator94]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MarkJonesESPN/status/725780229155872769[/tweet]

Just playing the hypothetical game, I wonder what happens with Vuc? Does the team just plan to bring him off the bench, or do they plan to move him before recruiting/signing Dwight, so they can get the best value for him (before teams know that they need to move him)?

MarkJonesESPN ‏@MarkJonesESPN 3h3 hours ago
MarkJonesESPN Retweeted Dylan Feltz
A couple NBA coaches have told me Vuc would be even better with a rim protector/"dog" along side him.MarkJonesESPN added,

Meaning his agent or Dwight - hoping the Magic will be interested which they aren't.

[npiper17]

Pairing Dwight with Vuc would be a massive FU to the way basketball has progressed and is being played on the vast majority of NBA teams.

It would be highly unlikely to be successful and would be an enormous risk. Forget the phrase, 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.' This would be more like 'if you can't beat them, do the extreme opposite.'

You'd be looking at Vuc or Dwight on the perimeter guarding the Ryan Anderson's and Tobias Harris' of this world.

Also can you really see Dwight Howard being comfortable on a team where he isn't the best post player (and knows it)? Having said that, Rashard was a better post player than he was IMO.

[OrlandoDream]

Everyone has seen Butler play apparently except you so stop acting like he's on Durants level.

Butler
PPG: 20.9 RPG: 5.2 APG: 4.7 SPG: 1.6 BPG: 0.6 FG%: .455 FT%: .832 2P%: .490 3P%: .311 TS%: .563

Dipo
PPG: 16.0 RPG: 4.8 APG: 3.9 SPG: 1.6 BPG: 0.8 FG%: .438 FT%: .830 2P%: .475 3P%: .348 TS%: .534

Very basic stats but Oladipo could pull that off in his sleep. Butler is a marginal upgrade AT BEST. Period. In no scenario does he move the needle for this team. You're overrating him.

Just a couple of differences that stand out. Jimmy Butler is a;

- Better passer - Used to play PG and still plays PG for the Bulls at times when Drose is out. He runs the O more then the starting PG, when derrick rose, is out.)
- Better defender and can defend multiple positions including SF and small PF
- BBIQ doesn't even compare - You won't see this on the stat sheet. JB is one of those crafty and smart stars. Unlike dipo who constantly takes those stupid contested long twos and a bunch of unquestionable shots, you won't see that from JB. As good as he is, he is like a point forward. Think likes a PG and has an SF body. He has even said it in interviews that he likes to get his teammates involved in the game over his own. I love Dipo but he still thinks he is the #1 option on this team. WE will never have success with him thinking that way. He just has an array of moves that shows how smart of a player he is. Things you dont find in any of our young guys. He is just such an unselfish player for a guy of his skills that its surprising.
- Would demand multiple double teams - Something Dipo could never do. JB demands multiple double teams every game. And him being such an underrated passer, he would dish the ball out and pass around until you find the open man. Easy shot.
- CONSISTENCY! - Ah yes, the most important part. Both JB and Dipo had their month where they dropped 20+ nearly every night. The difference? JB can do this every night where Dipo can have months where he is completely off shooting 30%. He can go 10-14 one night then 5-19 the next. Lets not forget about the start of season too that sent him to the bench. That is their main and biggest difference that separates them from All Star to Starter. Victor Oladipo has yet to find a level of consistency in his game. If he could play every game the same way he did back in April, this conversation would be over and he would be an all-star in the NBA for years to come.

I could go on and on but you def havent seen enough of JB this year to say he is on par with Dipo and so far from Durant. He is prob 1 tier from Durant where Dipo is more 3-4. I love Dipo, but at this point in their careers, JB is better then him in every way and saying that Dipo will be just as good(in a year? lol) has no guarantee. Again, please prove me wrong dipo.

Now you're just posting opinions...which yeah, you could go on and on. Now he can guard PF's? ok. You one up'ed me. Don't stop there. Jimmy Butler can guard centers too. Come on... A one for one swap Dipo for Jimmy Butler does absolutely nothing for this team, you know it, I know it, you just want to see something different. There is absolutely no reason to swap those guys unless we're bringing in a REAL star along with him. I'm not going back and forth swapping opinions, we'll just wait and see. I don't even dislike Butler. I think he's a very good player, its just if we're making a move to make us serious playoff contenders, Jimmy Butler isn't the answer imo especially if it involves losing two promising young players and a picks. Dude isn't THAT good.

We could go on back ad forth for pages so I will leave it with saying;

[dsg2003mach1]

Dwight might be interested but nobody is on the other end it seems

[PennytoShaq]

But his point still stands. You wouldn't trade Oladipo + AG or Hezonja or Vucevic for Butler. It just doesn't make sense to relinquish the future or any potential ceiling these player may have for marginal improvement Butler would offer us.

It's not a marginal improvement. You need to watch Butler play more. The guy takes over games and is a go to scorer. We don't have a player like that. This is why we lost so many close games. Oladipo is currently not a guy you can give the ball to and get wins with on a consistent basis.

Everyone has seen Butler play apparently except you so stop acting like he's on Durants level.

Butler
PPG: 20.9 RPG: 5.2 APG: 4.7 SPG: 1.6 BPG: 0.6 FG%: .455 FT%: .832 2P%: .490 3P%: .311 TS%: .563

Dipo
PPG: 16.0 RPG: 4.8 APG: 3.9 SPG: 1.6 BPG: 0.8 FG%: .438 FT%: .830 2P%: .475 3P%: .348 TS%: .534

Very basic stats but Oladipo could pull that off in his sleep. Butler is a marginal upgrade AT BEST. Period. In no scenario does he move the needle for this team. You're overrating him.

I have watched a lot of Chicago's games which is why I think you don't understand what you are talking about. Butler is the guy who gets the ball and delivers when the Bulls need a basket. We don't have that guy. You can post stats until you are blue in the face, but it doesn't change the fact that simply watching how Butler is used refutes whatever argument you are trying to make.

[Def Swami]

Everyone has seen Butler play apparently except you so stop acting like he's on Durants level.

Butler
PPG: 20.9 RPG: 5.2 APG: 4.7 SPG: 1.6 BPG: 0.6 FG%: .455 FT%: .832 2P%: .490 3P%: .311 TS%: .563

Dipo
PPG: 16.0 RPG: 4.8 APG: 3.9 SPG: 1.6 BPG: 0.8 FG%: .438 FT%: .830 2P%: .475 3P%: .348 TS%: .534

Very basic stats but Oladipo could pull that off in his sleep. Butler is a marginal upgrade AT BEST. Period. In no scenario does he move the needle for this team. You're overrating him.

while Butler and Dipo to me are a comparable, Butler does give you someone that can either cover a PG, SG or SF. Dipo can only cover PG or SG. And Butler the last 1-2 years has been the #1 focus of opposing defenses, Dipo has not. Is that enough to warrant trading for Dipo? paying higher contract? I dont know, that is where Rob will earn his money.

Sure. They differ in their roles on each team.... Hence why I think its an upgrade.... a marginal one although Dipo can guard a SF in a pinch if need be. Look Butler isn't going to bring us into playoff contention. If...IF...he moved the needle at all, best case scenario we make a first round playoff matchup fun to watch. Now if its a precursor to a bigger move then I'm on board. The original proposal which was giving up the farm for a slightly better version of Dipo was insane as is, imo, moving Butler for Dipo straight up and THAT be our big move. He's not good enough. end of story.

That's how I view it as well. Better player, but not changing the game for us.

[Orlwillbeback]

Deron Williams anyone?

[Orlwillbeback]

Oh and imp we should try to trade Vuc for butler.

I think Butler is more than a marginal improvement over Oladipo but I think it would be even better if we had both of them and started them at the 2 and 3.

Sign Deron Williams for 3/24

Deron
Dipo
Butler
Gordon
Dedmon

Might have to try to upgrade at the center, but I honestly think ded could hold it down.

[IllMagic04]

Oh and imp we should try to trade Vuc for butler.

I think Butler is more than a marginal improvement over Oladipo but I think it would be even better if we had both of them and started them at the 2 and 3.

Sign Deron Williams for 3/24

Deron
Dipo
Butler
Gordon
Dedmon

Might have to try to upgrade at the center, but I honestly think ded could hold it down.

Vuc for Butler will not get it done. You will have to trade more. Jimmy Butler is a 2 time all star.

[ezzzp]

Oh and imp we should try to trade Vuc for butler.

I think Butler is more than a marginal improvement over Oladipo but I think it would be even better if we had both of them and started them at the 2 and 3.

Sign Deron Williams for 3/24

Deron
Dipo
Butler
Gordon
Dedmon

Might have to try to upgrade at the center, but I honestly think ded could hold it down.

Now Butler for Vucevic is a trade that I could get behind.

Ideally the trade would be Vucevic + Watson + #11 for Butler. This would maintain the Magic's ability to add two max players.

But for this trade to be realistic, Hennigan would need to have a very solid line on acquiring one of the free agents centers available. The PG position would also need to be addressed as 3pt shooting from that position would be vital for that group to work.

X | Oladipo | Butler | Gordon | x
EP | Fournier | Hezonja | x | x

Centers
tier 1 : Horford
tier 2 : Biyombo, Ezeli, Noah
tier 3 : Mahinmi, Pachulia
tier 4 (can't see happening) : Whiteside, Howard

Point Guards

tier 1 : Conley
tier 2 : Lin, D Will, Clarkson

[IllMagic04]

Oh and imp we should try to trade Vuc for butler.

I think Butler is more than a marginal improvement over Oladipo but I think it would be even better if we had both of them and started them at the 2 and 3.

Sign Deron Williams for 3/24

Deron
Dipo
Butler
Gordon
Dedmon

Might have to try to upgrade at the center, but I honestly think ded could hold it down.

Now Butler for Vucevic is a trade that I could get behind.

Ideally the trade would be Vucevic + Watson + #11 for Butler. This would maintain the Magic's ability to add two max players.

But for this trade to be realistic, Hennigan would need to have a very solid line on acquiring one of the free agents centers available. The PG position would also need to be addressed as 3pt shooting from that position would be vital for that group to work.

X | Oladipo | Butler | Gordon | x
EP | Fournier | Hezonja | x | x

Centers
tier 1 : Horford
tier 2 : Biyombo, Ezeli, Noah
tier 3 : Mahinmi, Pachulia
tier 4 (can't see happening) : Whiteside, Howard

Point Guards

tier 1 : Conley
tier 2 : Lin, D Will, Clarkson

You really think the Bulls take that trade? Cause I don't. Unless that 11 pick turns into a top 3 They would reject that trade immediately.

[Orlwillbeback]

Oh and imp we should try to trade Vuc for butler.

I think Butler is more than a marginal improvement over Oladipo but I think it would be even better if we had both of them and started them at the 2 and 3.

Sign Deron Williams for 3/24

Deron
Dipo
Butler
Gordon
Dedmon

Might have to try to upgrade at the center, but I honestly think ded could hold it down.

Vuc for Butler will not get it done. You will have to trade more. Jimmy Butler is a 2 time all star.

Fine.

Throw in Payton or hezonja or something. Whatever.

Any lineup that results in us starting Gordon Dipo and butler is worth it imo.

[OrlChamps2030]

trade for DMC and butler while keeping AG. also keep oladipo if possible

[ezzzp]

Oh and imp we should try to trade Vuc for butler.

I think Butler is more than a marginal improvement over Oladipo but I think it would be even better if we had both of them and started them at the 2 and 3.

Sign Deron Williams for 3/24

Deron
Dipo
Butler
Gordon
Dedmon

Might have to try to upgrade at the center, but I honestly think ded could hold it down.

Now Butler for Vucevic is a trade that I could get behind.

Ideally the trade would be Vucevic + Watson + #11 for Butler. This would maintain the Magic's ability to add two max players.

But for this trade to be realistic, Hennigan would need to have a very solid line on acquiring one of the free agents centers available. The PG position would also need to be addressed as 3pt shooting from that position would be vital for that group to work.

X | Oladipo | Butler | Gordon | x
EP | Fournier | Hezonja | x | x

Centers
tier 1 : Horford
tier 2 : Biyombo, Ezeli, Noah
tier 3 : Mahinmi, Pachulia
tier 4 (can't see happening) : Whiteside, Howard

Point Guards

tier 1 : Conley
tier 2 : Lin, D Will, Clarkson

You really think the Bulls take that trade? Cause I don't. Unless that 11 pick turns into a top 3 They would reject that trade immediately.

You are probably right, but I do think that the Magic would be willing to sacrifice some other assets to have that core.

EP or Hezonja would hurt, but that core three would be an instant draw to free agents. Mike Conley and Al Horford would fit perfectly with their 3 pt shooting and above average defense, they would have to think long and hard about rejoining their teams with the potential for this group:

Conley (29) | Oladipo (24) | Butler (27) | Gordon (21) | Horford (30)
+ EP or Hezonja
+ Fournier (if matched)

[Orlwillbeback]

I used to be on the Conley train but given the miles he already has on his body and the salary he would command in an open market plus his recent injury history, I'm not sure anymore.

I'm thinking something more along the lines of Deron Williams for half the price and years might be smarter.

[Bensational]

I think Butler would be a great addition to the team, but I think that if the Bulls are going to be trading anyone, it's going to be Rose. If they trade Butler and Rose bolts, all they're left with is whomever they acquire. If that's Vuc, then they're left to rebuild around Vuc. I don't think any team is in a rush to do that right now.

If they trade Rose and manage to get a player locked into a longer deal, they could at least have a Butler/[x] core to work with.

I similarly think DMC isn't on the block this summer, especially with Sac showing how much they're willing to sacrifice to keep him happy.

Most likely big name trade candidates in my mind are Griffin and Love.

Possible names could be Marc Gasol (if Conley bolts and the Griz don't see room to retool on the fly), Dragic, Bledsoe/Knight (one of them), Millsap (if the Hawks rebuild). Utah might look to move some of their core, with Hayward, Gobert and Burke up for extension next summer and Exum the following summer.

Any other possible names?

[Orlwillbeback]

I think Butler would be a great addition to the team, but I think that if the Bulls are going to be trading anyone, it's going to be Rose. If they trade Butler and Rose bolts, all they're left with is whomever they acquire. If that's Vuc, then they're left to rebuild around Vuc. I don't think any team is in a rush to do that right now.

If they trade Rose and manage to get a player locked into a longer deal, they could at least have a Butler/[x] core to work with.

I similarly think DMC isn't on the block this summer, especially with Sac showing how much they're willing to sacrifice to keep him happy.

Most likely big name trade candidates in my mind are Griffin and Love.

Possible names could be Marc Gasol (if Conley bolts and the Griz don't see room to retool on the fly), Dragic, Bledsoe/Knight (one of them), Millsap (if the Hawks rebuild). Utah might look to move some of their core, with Hayward, Gobert and Burke up for extension next summer and Exum the following summer.

Any other possible names?

Drose salary is impossible to move right now imo.

[ezzzp]

I used to be on the Conley train but given the miles he already has on his body and the salary he would command in an open market plus his recent injury history, I'm not sure anymore.

I'm thinking something more along the lines of Deron Williams for half the price and years might be smarter.

I don't know if Williams is type of player RH is looking for. He's definitely not a leader or team locker room chemistry guy; there's plenty of evidence of that from his time in Brooklyn and Utah. He also wouldn't be the type of player acquisition that lured one of the better centers like Horford out of Atlanta.

If the Magic are going to trade some of their better assets for Butler, they aren't going to half step it in free agency and decide its time to penny pinch for no reason. They have the cap room and have to spend it to at least reach the floor - what would they be saving money for?

[ezzzp]

I think Butler would be a great addition to the team, but I think that if the Bulls are going to be trading anyone, it's going to be Rose. If they trade Butler and Rose bolts, all they're left with is whomever they acquire. If that's Vuc, then they're left to rebuild around Vuc. I don't think any team is in a rush to do that right now.

If they trade Rose and manage to get a player locked into a longer deal, they could at least have a Butler/[x] core to work with.

I similarly think DMC isn't on the block this summer, especially with Sac showing how much they're willing to sacrifice to keep him happy.

Most likely big name trade candidates in my mind are Griffin and Love.

Possible names could be Marc Gasol (if Conley bolts and the Griz don't see room to retool on the fly), Dragic, Bledsoe/Knight (one of them), Millsap (if the Hawks rebuild). Utah might look to move some of their core, with Hayward, Gobert and Burke up for extension next summer and Exum the following summer.

Any other possible names?

Drose salary is impossible to move right now imo.

Yea, huge salary and a one year rental...the only team that trades for that is one that has their eye on the following summer and who have no cap space that year...very slim pickings and thats before you factor in that he's injury prone and mid to low tier starting pg.

Btw obviously this is a hypothetical based on the imagined premise that Chicago is trading Butler.