The Trade-Mill - Trade Thread Part Infinity

[Captain_Caveman]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/04/29/report-kings-willing-to-trade-demarcus-cousins-because-his-moodiness-bothers-teammates/

[galipeautim]

Spoiler:

This season was fun, loved watching this team. But Danny & Brad have been straddling multiple paths and not committing - which ultimately hurts. Playing Turner, Amir, Sully, Jerebko is a win now move, but you don't develop Rozier, Mickey, Hunter, Young as much while doing that. And we have 8 more picks. I'm not remotely saying toss them. If we can get current stars entering their prime via FA \ trade, great. If not, and you get a Simmons\Ingram, are you really going to want Turner taking his (and Rozier's and Hunter's) time? Or we get Bender, are you playing Sully & KO ahead of him? That's what I'm talking about. If Danny strikes out in FA/trades and we end up with all these young guys - commit to playing them at that point.

Stevens has taken the same approach as the Spurs. For young guys they have to absolutely earn their minutes before they play. More talented young players very often sit behind less talented older players. It took Kawhi Leonard, Danny Green, George Hill and a bunch of other guys years to showcase their talents. But guess what...they are just as good today, or better, as they would have been if they played 30+ minutes on day 1. If Mickey or Rozier or the other young guys want to get minutes then they can work their butt off and earn it. I hate the idea that guys should get minutes just because they are young. You put the five guys on the court that best help you win each particular game. If the rookies had been one of those guys then they would have been on the court. In fact, Rozier was playing some meaningful minutes even before Bradley was injured so my guess is he's improving and might see more minutes next year.

I don't think we're disagreeing all that much here. I'm perfectly happy with the way things have played out to this point. Danny positioned himself to have assets to improve the roster last summer and at the deadline this year if things worked out. They didn't, so we rolled with what we had. Brad did a great job coaching them, and they were fun as hell to watch, and the rookies did indeed develop and playoff experience was great.

What I'm saying is going forward it, you get diminishing returns doing that again next season. The preferred path is add a couple of legit starters with star potential via draft, trade or FA. If that happens, you are bumping a couple guys that played well this year from the rotation, right? If it doesn't happen, and you draft a bunch of young guys - at least 1 very highly rated one - added to the young guys we already have, you still gotta bump guys from the rotation to play them. There's a window to how much development can happen without playing. Rookie year / d-league, for mid to late first rounders, sure. But do you want to do that with our top draft choice? Kawhi played 24 minutes a game his rookie year. Hill & Green, sure - Terry, RJ & Mickey got that same treatment, that's fine.

I agree that we aren't far off on opinion, but I don't think you downgrade the roster so that the "younger" (everyone on this team is young) guys can play. I also don't think you play those guys unless they are the plyers best equipped to win you the game. At the end of the day, it comes down to our rising sophomores and incoming rookies playing well enough to earn their time. Otherwise, yes I think another year of Jerebko is the right decision. I certainly hope we draft/drafted well enough that it isn't the case.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/04/29/report-kings-willing-to-trade-demarcus-cousins-because-his-moodiness-bothers-teammates/

I laughed when I read this:

But Cousins’ moodiness is a problem. It gets him harmful technical fouls, takes him out of games mentally and – as we learn here – upsets his teammates.

It seems the Kings are attempting to scare him straight – reports like this leaking, including one that their next coach will have management’s backing if he wants to discipline Cousins. They have to try something. Rajon Rondo‘s leadership, while endearing to Cousins, apparently didn’t change the center significantly enough.

Since when has Boogie ever been scared straight by a coach's discipline? The guy's been suspended numerous times over the years. And when they did finally have a guy that gave Cousins' tough love, they ended up firing him because his style of play was too boring for Vivek. What else are they going to threaten him with? "Hey Boogie! Behave, or we'll trade you away from Sacramento!!".

[SichtingLives]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/04/29/report-kings-willing-to-trade-demarcus-cousins-because-his-moodiness-bothers-teammates/

lol magnificent headline

[Captain_Caveman]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/04/29/report-kings-willing-to-trade-demarcus-cousins-because-his-moodiness-bothers-teammates/

I laughed when I read this:

But Cousins’ moodiness is a problem. It gets him harmful technical fouls, takes him out of games mentally and – as we learn here – upsets his teammates.

It seems the Kings are attempting to scare him straight – reports like this leaking, including one that their next coach will have management’s backing if he wants to discipline Cousins. They have to try something. Rajon Rondo‘s leadership, while endearing to Cousins, apparently didn’t change the center significantly enough.

Since when has Boogie ever been scared straight by a coach's discipline? The guy's been suspended numerous times over the years. And when they did finally have a guy that gave Cousins' tough love, they ended up firing him because his style of play was too boring for Vivek. What else are they going to threaten him with? "Hey Boogie! Behave, or we'll trade you away from Sacramento!!".

All I'm gonna say here is that I've been telling y'all that no one around him likes this dude. Not at any point. He is hated, his disruptive behavior is constant and the Kings have buried half of it. Not really a maturity issue, either. Dude has challenges and is not wired for such a high-pressure, high-intensity profession, IMO.

[mademan]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/04/29/report-kings-willing-to-trade-demarcus-cousins-because-his-moodiness-bothers-teammates/

I laughed when I read this:

But Cousins’ moodiness is a problem. It gets him harmful technical fouls, takes him out of games mentally and – as we learn here – upsets his teammates.

It seems the Kings are attempting to scare him straight – reports like this leaking, including one that their next coach will have management’s backing if he wants to discipline Cousins. They have to try something. Rajon Rondo‘s leadership, while endearing to Cousins, apparently didn’t change the center significantly enough.

Since when has Boogie ever been scared straight by a coach's discipline? The guy's been suspended numerous times over the years. And when they did finally have a guy that gave Cousins' tough love, they ended up firing him because his style of play was too boring for Vivek. What else are they going to threaten him with? "Hey Boogie! Behave, or we'll trade you away from Sacramento!!".

All I'm gonna say here is that I've been telling y'all that no one around him likes this dude. Not at any point. He is hated, his disruptive behavior is constant and the Kings have buried half of it. Not really a maturity issue, either. Dude has challenges and is not wired for such a high-pressure, high-intensity profession, IMO.

Winning cures all. If, say, like the poster above suggested, Cousins gets swapped for Val+9 from the Raptors and they go on to win 60 games and go to the ECF or even finals next year, all the talk would be about how Cousins matured and learned how to be a leader and a winner and all that jazz.

[Captain_Caveman]

Winning cures all. If, say, like the poster above suggested, Cousins gets swapped for Val+9 from the Raptors and they go on to win 60 games and go to the ECF or even finals next year, all the talk would be about how Cousins matured and learned how to be a leader and a winner and all that jazz.

There are plenty of examples of guys like Cousins who have been successfully integrated into winning teams. Rodman, Sheed, Artest, even Rondo.

I'd argue that (a) Cousins appears to me to be way more disliked by teammates than any of those guys, and (b) we don't currently have the kind of veteran team that could absorb his disruptive behavior.

The KG Celts with Doc coaching? Cool.

A team of quiet role players under Stevens the technocrat? Hardly.

Also, none of the guys I named ever got traded for significant value. Price point on Cousins has to be low, and while his value will only continue to fall IMO, I still think we'd have to overpay to land him in the trade market.

[Fencer reregistered]

Rondo & Cousins -- the Clash Brothers.

That's not original with me, but it fits. Rajon & Boogie against the world, their coaches and teammates not excepted.

[Ben-N1ce]

Cousins is a polarizing player but odds of winning a title without elite talents is minuscule in the NBA and I like to gamble. Picks are just another asset. The odds of this draft having a player whose ceiling is the best big in the NBA..I'd say it's zero. Make it happen.

[cellar-door]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/04/29/report-kings-willing-to-trade-demarcus-cousins-because-his-moodiness-bothers-teammates/

I laughed when I read this:

But Cousins’ moodiness is a problem. It gets him harmful technical fouls, takes him out of games mentally and – as we learn here – upsets his teammates.

It seems the Kings are attempting to scare him straight – reports like this leaking, including one that their next coach will have management’s backing if he wants to discipline Cousins. They have to try something. Rajon Rondo‘s leadership, while endearing to Cousins, apparently didn’t change the center significantly enough.

Since when has Boogie ever been scared straight by a coach's discipline? The guy's been suspended numerous times over the years. And when they did finally have a guy that gave Cousins' tough love, they ended up firing him because his style of play was too boring for Vivek. What else are they going to threaten him with? "Hey Boogie! Behave, or we'll trade you away from Sacramento!!".

Funniest thing is they had a coach who had him playing well and under control. Cousins got hurt, team lost some games, Vivek fired the coach. Now he's doing well with the Nuggets and the Kings are a dumpster fire again.

[FlatearthZorro]

Btw, it will be interesting to see whether the Heat sign Whiteside or not. He'd look fantastic in C's uniform.

Flawed player, but I could see us singing him as a fallback plan. Better bet than Greg Monroe, at least.

Kevin Love is still a possibility, but I agree Cleveland is going to come out of the east, and they've had a little bit of success with Love playing the 5.

I'd trade a 4-6 pick for Love, not a 1-3. Too many question marks at this point, about his adaptability, about how his game and psyche and health would bounce back after Cleveland.

And I hate Blake Griffin's game, I think he's really tough to build around offensively because he's a dominant pick and roll player but not a great midrange shooter or low post scorer. Rebounds alright. Defends alright. To my eye, he's not that different all around from someone like Brook Lopez, just flashier and with more hype.

I like Griffin a lot more than Love. He's been healthier throughout his career, he's more athletic and faster on his feet. Love has him when it comes to 3 pt shooting, but that's about it.

Griffin is a pretty darn good midrange shooter. Have you been watching him the past 2 years, and he's pretty darn good post up player, you're making it sound like he's offensively challenged, while he's averaged 20+ in his last 4-5 seasons..

[FlatearthZorro]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/04/29/report-kings-willing-to-trade-demarcus-cousins-because-his-moodiness-bothers-teammates/

He's a 14 years old girl in a 7 foot body. No thanks. Hope Danny doesn't bother adding him, this will more than likely set us back years.

Who knows tho, maybe I'm wrong, maybe winning and Brad can change him, but I doubt it.

[lon3lytoaster]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/04/29/report-kings-willing-to-trade-demarcus-cousins-because-his-moodiness-bothers-teammates/

I laughed when I read this:

But Cousins’ moodiness is a problem. It gets him harmful technical fouls, takes him out of games mentally and – as we learn here – upsets his teammates.

It seems the Kings are attempting to scare him straight – reports like this leaking, including one that their next coach will have management’s backing if he wants to discipline Cousins. They have to try something. Rajon Rondo‘s leadership, while endearing to Cousins, apparently didn’t change the center significantly enough.

Since when has Boogie ever been scared straight by a coach's discipline? The guy's been suspended numerous times over the years. And when they did finally have a guy that gave Cousins' tough love, they ended up firing him because his style of play was too boring for Vivek. What else are they going to threaten him with? "Hey Boogie! Behave, or we'll trade you away from Sacramento!!".

They'll punish him by trading him to a cold weather city that has a 5'9 all star PG he previously "feuded" with in Sacramento.

[Captain_Caveman]

Funniest thing is they had a coach who had him playing well and under control. Cousins got hurt, team lost some games, Vivek fired the coach. Now he's doing well with the Nuggets and the Kings are a dumpster fire again.

Nah on all of that. Cousins has been in the league for six seasons and 415 career games now, and all he has to hang his hat on is a 5-game winning streak two years ago in early November against a soft schedule. Meanwhile, he has alienated almost everyone who has come in contact with him and had no impact on actually winning basketball games.

Malone is also not "doing well with the Nuggets".

[Andrew McCeltic]

None of us know the deal with Cousins first hand (a couple people have relayed broad descriptions, like 'everyone hates him'), it's possible he is a difficult guy, but it's just as possible that he's being scapegoated for how badly that team has been managed and coached.

Cousins doesn't look that different, to me, from someone like Rasheed Wallace, or even Kendrick Perkins.. Why is Perk "intense" and Cousins "petulant" except that Perk looked like a 50 year old man when he was 17 and Cousins has a baby face?

It's a huge, huge gamble when your superstar best player is the polar opposite of Tim Duncan. But Cousins' on-court stuff isn't that different from a lot of players, his reputation exceeds the damage he's done. Maybe there's more behind the scenes, but the Kings don't seem great at keeping stuff in-house. I suspect we'd have heard about it- unless Cousins truly is diagnosably bipolar and management is trying to protect *him*.

If there's any organization that could provide 'containment' for his emotional storms and help him mature, it would be ours. Just really really risky, and we could end up seeing Demarcus traded somewhere for a shockingly small return. The Kings have hemmed and hawed so much that now he's getting branded as a problem child who can't win. I don't think that's true, but they've absolutely tanked his trade value by trying and failing to make the organization work as is. Something something radical disruption.

[Andrew McCeltic]

The way reputations get built on this stuff is so illogical- Jason Kidd slapped his wife in the face in front of their baby and he was revered as a 'veteran leader' and now he's considered an elite coach.

[mbsnmisc]

Total speculation, just a gut feeling, but if we traded for Blake he would opt out at the earliest opportunity and go to NYC or LA. He just has that "Hollywood" vibe. I think he craves the commercials and Q rating more than championships. He is the antiCeltic.

I also believe his best basketball is behind him and he will not age well.

[BakersDozen]

Total speculation, just a gut feeling, but if we traded for Blake he would opt out at the earliest opportunity and go to NYC or LA. He just has that "Hollywood" vibe. I think he craves the commercials and Q rating more than championships. He is the antiCeltic.

I also believe his best basketball is behind him and he will not age well.

Completely agree. I rather trade for Butler. Maybe try and woo Whiteside and sign a young pf in Terrence Jones.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[BfB]

Spoiler:

Stevens has taken the same approach as the Spurs. For young guys they have to absolutely earn their minutes before they play. More talented young players very often sit behind less talented older players. It took Kawhi Leonard, Danny Green, George Hill and a bunch of other guys years to showcase their talents. But guess what...they are just as good today, or better, as they would have been if they played 30+ minutes on day 1. If Mickey or Rozier or the other young guys want to get minutes then they can work their butt off and earn it. I hate the idea that guys should get minutes just because they are young. You put the five guys on the court that best help you win each particular game. If the rookies had been one of those guys then they would have been on the court. In fact, Rozier was playing some meaningful minutes even before Bradley was injured so my guess is he's improving and might see more minutes next year.

I don't think we're disagreeing all that much here. I'm perfectly happy with the way things have played out to this point. Danny positioned himself to have assets to improve the roster last summer and at the deadline this year if things worked out. They didn't, so we rolled with what we had. Brad did a great job coaching them, and they were fun as hell to watch, and the rookies did indeed develop and playoff experience was great.

What I'm saying is going forward it, you get diminishing returns doing that again next season. The preferred path is add a couple of legit starters with star potential via draft, trade or FA. If that happens, you are bumping a couple guys that played well this year from the rotation, right? If it doesn't happen, and you draft a bunch of young guys - at least 1 very highly rated one - added to the young guys we already have, you still gotta bump guys from the rotation to play them. There's a window to how much development can happen without playing. Rookie year / d-league, for mid to late first rounders, sure. But do you want to do that with our top draft choice? Kawhi played 24 minutes a game his rookie year. Hill & Green, sure - Terry, RJ & Mickey got that same treatment, that's fine.

I agree that we aren't far off on opinion, but I don't think you downgrade the roster so that the "younger" (everyone on this team is young) guys can play. I also don't think you play those guys unless they are the plyers best equipped to win you the game. At the end of the day, it comes down to our rising sophomores and incoming rookies playing well enough to earn their time. Otherwise, yes I think another year of Jerebko is the right decision. I certainly hope we draft/drafted well enough that it isn't the case.

This argument drives me insane...

SOME players are adept at kearning through observation/instruction. SOME require a playing time to test their knowlege to internalize instruction.

It's different for every player. There is not a one size fits all olayer development ideology that works for all players. A quality player development program caters the approach on a case by case basis.

[Bohemian]

Report: Celtics believe they’ll get meeting with Kevin Durant


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/celtics--offseason-plan-to-include-a-run-at-kevin-durant-143324787.html

Ainge will be aggressive in free agency, team sources told The Vertical, and yes, that means a run at Kevin Durant. The Celtics believe Durant will meet with them this summer, but they know that meeting won’t accomplish much unless there are significant moves leading into it. Durant will be 28 in September, and the former MVP isn’t interested in hearing what a team could someday become. He wants to win now, which is why Golden State and San Antonio expect to be appealing, why Oklahoma City is still very much in play. Boston needs a deal for Jimmy Butler, a commitment from Al Horford, a carrot to dangle in front of Durant to persuade him that relocating east is the smart play.