The Trade-Mill - Trade Thread Part Infinity

[Andrew McCeltic]

3/16/Smart for Butler is kind of bonkers, Bulls could very very easily win that trade within two seasons. More development from Smart, development from the picks, and aging/injuries from Butler.

Going to leave the Cousins stuff alone, it would be good if someone could make a list of the stuff he's actually done. I'd only say it's exactly the confidence of Cave's analysis that makes me doubt it: Cousins is bipolar, he's a horrible teammate, open and shut case, with no role played by context, circumstance, environment, bad, changing ownership, a revolving door of coaches, with the one who had the team winning and Cousins maturing fired without cause and replaced by one of the most temperamental d*ck coaches in league history, plus a revolving door of GMs, with Pete D'Allesandro, a former agent, oozing Sidney Falco sleaze every time he opened his mouth. Oh, and prolonged losing. But yeah, the people in charge of that who have summed up Cousins' character and potential are definitely reliable.

[Captain_Caveman]

3/16/Smart for Butler is kind of bonkers, Bulls could very very easily win that trade within two seasons. More development from Smart, development from the picks, and aging/injuries from Butler.

Going to leave the Cousins stuff alone, it would be good if someone could make a list of the stuff he's actually done. I'd only say it's exactly the confidence of Cave's analysis that makes me doubt it: Cousins is bipolar, he's a horrible teammate, open and shut case, with no role played by context, circumstance, environment, bad, changing ownership, a revolving door of coaches, with the one who had the team winning and Cousins maturing fired without cause and replaced by one of the most temperamental d*ck coaches in league history, plus a revolving door of GMs, with Pete D'Allesandro, a former agent, oozing Sidney Falco sleaze every time he opened his mouth. Oh, and prolonged losing. But yeah, the people in charge of that who have summed up Cousins' character and potential are definitely reliable.

There's enough blame to go around with the Kings. Guy is still a grade A a-hole who is completely detested by a long list of people who have to work with or around him. Has clashed tons with nearly all of his coaches and teammates, and is constantly disruptive in that locker room. He did it at Kentucky and he'd do the same here. It's why he went 5th in the draft, behind guys like Turner and Wes Johnson.

Don't even take my word for it. Go back and read what Grant Napear said about him. Who the hell feuds with their own team's super homer announcer? When has that ever happened before? lol

Best part of this "debate" is that it's like the one we had over David Lee. We could have this discussion from now until the end of time, and there's not a chance in hell that I'll be wrong on this.

Bottom line is that the guy has some talent but is a completely toxic person to his core. Be the last to know if you absolutely insist. I'll be right over here when it isn't possible to deny it anymore.

[BleedGreen1989]

Yeah, all things considered (price tag, fit, chemistry) I'm not very interested in adding Cousins to this team.

[rickrolled]

Hope the Lakers dont jump in and screws our plan.

[Chris4Vikes]

Durant, Horford, and Butler possible??

https://twitter.com/dangercart/status/726510542177886208

I can dream.

[soxfan2003]

Does anyone remember what the Blazers were offering for a 27 year old Paul Pierce before the 2005 draft besides pick #4?

The way that I look at it.... Marcus Smart has the potential to be at least 90% as good as Jimmy Butler. Right now, I would only guesstimate that Smart has a 40% chance of in the future developing into such a player but 40% odds are better than < 5% odds that I would give to most of Boston's other young players right now. I don't think Butler right now or in the past has been as good as peak Paul Pierce.

While the market is a bit different now since so many teams have cap room......Paul Pierce back then was a better player than Jimmy Butler is now. And Pierce didn't have the same level of injury concerns.

I like Butler when healthy but I certainly don't like selling low on a much younger player like Smart that have potential to be nearly as good and who has already played fairly well in two playoff series. When Butler was Smart's age, he was an NBA rookie scoring 2.6 PPG....

Ainge and Celtics medical staff will (hopefully) earn their money this off-season.

I agree that overall Butler's contract now is significantly better than Love's contract when Cleveland first acquired Love. But that is a bit misleading since the Cavs may have gotten some sort of verbal guarantee out of Love that he wouldn't walk right away.... And Cavs had Lebron/Irving which is a pretty big incentive to stay after the years of losing in MN. Butler does have a contract right now that the Celtics are stuck with if he becomes damaged goods with his knee like Derick Rose or Amare.

Butler has also just played 65-67 games the last 3 seasons....

In the absence of a KD commitment, I can see giving up #5, #16 and someone like Rozier/Hunter for him......assuming the Celtics medical staff gives the green light.

But I wouldn't want to give up #3 and Smart for him -- especially considering Butler's health issues unless that was literally the only realistic way to get KD. Move on to another target and don't pretend that Butler is the only potentially available player that can help out the Celtics. If I'm Kevin Durant, I want the Celtics to use their assets wisely if I'm going to Boston and not overpay on trades just to impress me.

Butler is basically just a Smart like impact player that developed and hit his upside but now has started developing some injuries that may or may not affect him going forward.

In an "average draft", Smart with his current situation of 2 years left on his contract, I think gets picked in the 5-8 range.

Smart may not develop enough on the offensive end to justify it.....but Smart is easily a top 3 player on a championship team if he gets an old man Kidd like shot from 3 and the rest of his offensive game just makes (very) minor improvements. Whether he does that or a decent amount of it, is TBD.

But it should be noted that Butler himself struggled from 3 point land 2 out of the last 3 years. 31% this year and 28% 3 years ago. He does have 2 seasons shooting them at around 38%.

I'm not 100% opposed to trading Smart but if the Celtics do trade Smart, I want him valued like a top 5-8 pick in a typical draft and not treated like he is Gerald Green. And not treated like a player that probably won't make it or just has a value in the 15 to 20 range of a typical draft.

A potential landing spot for Smart if the Celtics do decide to deal him after acquiring Butler, I could see being MN. TT has to be impressed with Smart's defense and he may be willing to give up the Wolves first round pick for him. Celtics can then use that first round pick to trade for a veteran.

[Captain_Caveman]

Does anyone remember what the Blazers were offering for a 27 year old Paul Pierce before the 2005 draft besides pick #4?

Pierce for a non-guaranteed Nick Van Exel and the 3rd pick.

Blazers ended up pulling out and dealing that 3rd overall pick to Utah for the 6th and 27th overall picks (Martell Webster and Linas Kleiza), plus a future Pistons 1st (Joel Freeland). Jazz took Deron Williams 3rd and Paul slipped to New Orleans at #4.

I think it is fair to say that Portland **** up all around that day.

[PierceFan4ever]

Yeah, I would be veryyyyy hesitant to include Smart in a package, just because I still believe he has tremendous upside and you definitely want a player like him off the bench in a contending team. I would trade any other player on our team aside from IT before Smart if a deal was being negotiated.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Trading Ingram or Simmons for Jimmy Butler would be the most short sighted move we've made since dealing Joe Johnson for Delk/Rogers.

Unless it guarantees us KD, no way you make that deal

[Berkcelt]

Does anyone remember what the Blazers were offering for a 27 year old Paul Pierce before the 2005 draft besides pick #4?

Pierce for a non-guaranteed Nick Van Exel and the 3rd pick.

Blazers ended up pulling out and dealing that 3rd overall pick to Utah for the 6th and 27th overall picks (Martell Webster and Linas Kleiza), plus a future Pistons 1st (Joel Freeland). Jazz took Deron Williams 3rd and Paul slipped to New Orleans at #4.

I think it is fair to say that Portland **** up all around that day.

In fairness to Portland, as I remember it, PP called bull on getting traded there, so it didn't really make sense for Portland to go ahead in acquiring him. Otherwise, that seems kind of unbelievable in hindsight. I'm trying to imagine the C's moving up three spots in the lottery using their lower picks. 6, 16, 23 for...3. Just sounds like a pipe dream.

[Berkcelt]

Trading Ingram or Simmons for Jimmy Butler would be the most short sighted move we've made since dealing Joe Johnson for Delk/Rogers.

Unless it guarantees us KD, no way you make that deal

Very much agreed.

Makes me wonder how sure Danny was he was getting KG after trading for Ray in 2007. People just repeated for about hour an straight "There has to be another shoe to drop. There has to be another shoe to drop..." Shoedrop should have been KG's newest nickname.

Can't say I'm too worried about it this year though. If we're lucky enough to get 1 or 2, I don't think Danny will be that cavalier about spending it, bold streak be damned.

[GregB]

Trading Ingram or Simmons for Jimmy Butler would be the most short sighted move we've made since dealing Joe Johnson for Delk/Rogers.

Unless it guarantees us KD, no way you make that deal

It's not a guarantee I would make this deal. But that comparison is pretty awful. Delk and Rodgers were both aging role players that we ove payed for.

Jimmy Butler is an all star two way player who is in the beginning of his prime. Sure we could end up regretting that deal. But unless butler just completely falls apart physically. We would be getting a very good player in return.

[BakersDozen]

I dont think too many people here would include the pick if it were top 2 for Butler


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