The Official Off-Season Thread, part I of many

[Valid]

Jimmy Butler is an All-star but not an All-star worth acquiring. Kevin Durant is the only player worth to speed up the process.

I don't believe adding Jimmy Butler will make the team better. Yes, Jimmy Butler is better than AB or Crowder but someone like Butler needs the ball in his hands to thrive, this makes Isaiah Thomas useless. The Bulls offence was at it worst with Jimmy playing ISO or P&R with Pau Gasol, that's why they missed the play-offs.

IF Durant signs as a FA, Danny should acquire Blake Griffin as second fiddle. Blake is worth something in the order of Jae Crowder, Jonas Jerekbo and Jared Sullinger (S&T) with our own and the Mavs 1st rnd pick. Doc isn't interested in players that need 2 to 3 years to develop. He wants to address his squads’ biggest needs (depth and SF). Jae Crowder is an above average SF. With Sully and Jerekbo in the mix Doc can opt between going small or big when needed. Griffin will abate our biggest needs (rebounding; secondary playmaking and scoring) although he won’t remedy our rim protection.

Welcome to the forum.

A couple of things I disagree with, though:

1.) Jimmy Butler is arguably the best 2-guard in the league. He would absolutely make this team better, and I don't see him having much of a problem playing next to IT.

2.) It's gonna take a lot more than that to pry Griffin away from LAC. That trade offer would have to start with Crowder and the Brooklyn pick.

[brackdan70]

Evan Fournier as a target if the Jimmy Butler or Kevin Durrant wet dreams don't pan out? We need shooters and he can shoot. still quite young at 23. He is an RFA. how much would we offer and how much would Orlando match?

[KumaJG]

Why is everyone excited for Horford? I don't see it

[SichtingLives]

Butler doesn't make a lot of sense. He's not a superstar or a great first option offensively yet will cost a fortune in trade, plays the position we are least in need of upgrade at and i don't see how trading for him is a lure for Durant. In a vacuum he's a very good player and I'd love to have him but for all the angles of this offseason, I can only see a deal for Butler or Cousins if we flop on everything else.

[klemen4]

I do not see any point going for Butler when we are the strongest at guard position.

First offer should be for one of Love, Griffin, Cousins or Gasol...than its up to Durant if he will join us.

I still think high chance we can get Love or Griffin with BRK 3-6 pick, fillers, picks to NY with Melo going to CLE or LAC. Makes a lot of sense for all teams!!!

That is first move...than go after KD.

[sarcasma]

You'd just lose a player for the fun of it though ? What good comes with that ? Youre still going to find a replacement big thats not better than Sully.

Careful now. You're not allowed to pay attention to the entirety of October-March and have to analyze Sullinger ONLY based on the ATL series. His 5+ wins above replacement were a mirage this year and we will replace them by Fox Magic. We had a top 5 defense this year, but need a rim protector. Rim protectors are typically really good on offense and should really get us out of the middle of the pack on that end. Our offense sucked because of our crappy bigs and definitely not because we had two guards shoot <30% from 3 and a third one who topped 5 assists once all season.

IT ONLY MATTERS WHAT YOU DO IN THE PLAYOFFS.

[JanMat]

1.) Jimmy Butler is arguably the best 2-guard in the league. He would absolutely make this team better, and I don't see him having much of a problem playing next to IT.

Why won't he have a problem with IT when he can't make it work with Rose, Mirotic, Snell, Moore, ... . The only player Jimmy trusts in late game situations is Pau (Gasol). Look at the DET@CHI game on 2nd Apr; triple-double game but the last 6 minutes of the game he doesn't share the ball. He did the same all year long, even last year.

As a star player you have to get your teammates, especially the spot-up shooters, involved! I don't believe Jimmy will change the way he plays, especially when you trade for him and call him the "franchise saviour", the "true All-Star" Boston needs.. .

2.) It's gonna take a lot more than that to pry Griffin away from LAC. That trade offer would have to start with Crowder and the Brooklyn pick.

I'm not convinced Doc Rivers is interested in a high lottery pick. Simmons, Ingram, Bender, Murray, ... they all need at least 3 years to develop. Paul will be 34 in 2020 when someone like Simmons or Ingram might be ready to dominate.

Doc needs win-now pieces, players that are known commodities like Crowder, Jerekbo, maybe Sullinger or Amir Johnson. The same goes voor Bryce Johnson, Denzel Valentine, Caris LeVert, Taurean Prince, ... . You don't need the 3rd pick to select that kind of player, these players are available with the MAV and BOS picks.

I think Doc values 2 ready to contribute players a lot higher than 1 might-be future All-Star.

[DoubleHappiness]

We're strongest at 2 so bringing in Jimmy is not a huge deal. However I disagree with you on if he could work with IT or not.

Jimmy regularly deferred to Derrick until it was clear that Derrick wouldn't have it every night and was consistently shooting the Bulls out of games. It was only then that the power struggle started. Some nights Rose looked great, other nights horrendous. Jimmy's offensive game is not versatile, but on that train wreck of a Bull's team he was often the best option and the numbers back it up.

[165bows]

Butler doesn't make a lot of sense. He's not a superstar or a great first option offensively yet will cost a fortune in trade, plays the position we are least in need of upgrade at and i don't see how trading for him is a lure for Durant. In a vacuum he's a very good player and I'd love to have him but for all the angles of this offseason, I can only see a deal for Butler or Cousins if we flop on everything else.

I love Jimmy Butler, one of my favorite non-Celtics players, but there is a lot of truth to this.

While we are all dreamcasting acquisitions, I'm going to go back to an earlier idea I'd posted. Not sure if it's enough to convince them to sign here, but a trade for Marc Gasol, signing Kevin Durant, then sign and trading for Al Horford keeps the highest possible amount of current win-now talent on the team as well as future draft assets of any of the discussed combinations. It also fills in the gaps of the current team needs in a way that a trade for Butler, like you say, doesn't do.

There is a lot of age and injury concerns there, but it also is a ton of versatility, talent and future draft assets all in one place.

[Banks2Pierce]

Turner played 28 mpg. Tons of wins to be gained from the playmaking wing position. An issue is possibly that they'd want Bradley and he's got the Texas connection.

[ConstableGeneva]

Durant-Horford (non-max)-Favors frontcourt. Make my fantasy happen, Danny. Would be willing to give up any pick other than 2017 BKN swap and 2018 BKN pick. Would be willing to give up any player other than IT, Bradley, and Crowder. Pipe dream, I know. That six-player core plus Stevens with two future BKN picks would rule the East for at least half a decade. Add affordable 3-and-D wings. Worry about IT and Bradley's salary later.

[BRUNiNHO91]

Butler doesn't make a lot of sense. He's not a superstar or a great first option offensively yet will cost a fortune in trade, plays the position we are least in need of upgrade at and i don't see how trading for him is a lure for Durant. In a vacuum he's a very good player and I'd love to have him but for all the angles of this offseason, I can only see a deal for Butler or Cousins if we flop on everything else.

I love Jimmy Butler, one of my favorite non-Celtics players, but there is a lot of truth to this.

While we are all dreamcasting acquisitions, I'm going to go back to an earlier idea I'd posted. Not sure if it's enough to convince them to sign here, but a trade for Marc Gasol, signing Kevin Durant, then sign and trading for Al Horford keeps the highest possible amount of current win-now talent on the team as well as future draft assets of any of the discussed combinations. It also fills in the gaps of the current team needs in a way that a trade for Butler, like you say, doesn't do.

There is a lot of age and injury concerns there, but it also is a ton of versatility, talent and future draft assets all in one place.

Yeah. It bothers me a little that we will eventually have to trade a large package like Smart, Crowder and the Bkn pick for a guy like Butler. I love Jimmy Butler I think he's probably the best SG in the NBA, certainly the best 2 way SG but I just think there could be so much potential in a team that has Jae, Smart and a top pick + Durant. Smart has a shot at really being at least 70% of the player Butler is in the next season or two, the pick could easily be better than Butler(maybe even Durant also) soon enough and Jae Crowder is such a versatile guy. Not to mention all three pieces would be paid about the same as Butler alone in the next 2 years. Durant is going to go and force somebody to make the same mistake that LeBron did when going to Cleveland. Trading Wiggins for Love was a good move for about 1 year. Now Wiggins is clearly the better player of the two and will continue to get better for years to come.

[Banks2Pierce]

Think people are underrating Butler on Offense. Would be absolutely enormous to always have one of Thomas or Butler on the court, and that's even before we get to what a 2nd shoe could be. He's not on that elite tier with Durant and Curry, but he's a top 15 offensive player.

[DakoBarr]

I like the idea of adding Butler. He can be a playmaker if your primary one is suffering, which means he would have helped immensely when Thomas was being hounded by the Hawks. Plus he's a name. His addition would have to go along with Horford/Durant to be considered worth it, but seems like he would make us more attractive if we keep Crowder/IT.

[Writebloc]

Is this really an issue? 1) If Durant says to Danny: I'll play in Boston if you are able to get Jimmy to play with me I'm in, then Danny needs to get Jimmy. 2) If Durant isn't so picky, we go after someone else. End of the day if Durant wants to come to the Celtics but has stipulations than Ainge needs to make it happen.

[Banks2Pierce]

Is this really an issue? 1) If Durant says to Danny: I'll play in Boston if you are able to get Jimmy to play with me I'm in, then Danny needs to get Jimmy.

Problem is that it's rarely as cut and dry. He might say that he'll strongly consider us, but what if Chicago ends up pondering multiple offers at the draft? He's locked in long term so he is a candidate to go anywhere with assets. And it's not like players as good as Butler get traded constantly. The only star to be moved in the past 2 years has been Love.

[ConstableGeneva]

Teams that might and could compete with us in the trade market: Lakers, Magic, Wolves, Sixers, Kings, Suns, Nuggets, Jazz. Maybe Bucks and Raptors.

[Darth Celtic]

OK. Crunching the numbers. Here was what you get 3 all stars added to the roster in the offseason. You have to assume ET would take a deal starting at 5.6m year to stay when the knicks would probably offer 10. And Horford would accept 16.5m to start (give him longer deal isntead) and KD would sign here for max 25m.

You have to trade the top pick to get an all star. We should all agree on that. Also, we have to trade the worthless salaries of KO, James Young along with AB (his salary is the highest). It only makes sense that you trade for Jimmy Butler. Places same position, just better in most ways. Assuming cap is 93.5m (it will be between 91 and 95m)

AB+KO+JY+ 2016 BK 1st, 2 2016 seconds (later ones) for Jimmy Butler. (17.5M)
Sign KD for 25m, Horford for 16.5m.

Rozier 1.91m,
J Mickey 1.22m
RJ Hunter 1.2m
ET 4.45m (cap hold)
Sully 5.6m (cap hold)
M. Smart 3.58m
J. Crowder 6.29m
IT 6.59m
JB 17.5m
KD 25m
Horford 16.5m
Dallas Pick 1.9m
Boston Pick 1.6m

is 93,3million
We can then go over the cap to sign Sully to 10-11m deal and ET to 5.7m deal.

There are other ways to do it, keep JJ instead of sully, let sully and JJ walk and not trade Kelly O.

It looks like
IT/Rozier
Butler/Smart/RJ
KD/ET
Crowder/Sully/Mickey
Horford/Sully

2 picks (most likely centers/PF)

[BigTrade92]

Whiteside and Durant would be amazing.

Then you take the picks, players, etc. and trade for a third Superstar....such as Butler.

Isaiah/Butler/Durant/Whoever/Whiteside

No one is stopping that team, IMO. No one, not Golden State, not San Antonio and certainly not Cleveland.

[truth18]

Yeah, reading through this thread: I take it back. I'm going to assume we get Horford and JJ Hickson just so my dreams aren't crushed. Not that I ever thought we would get Durant but reading some of the "optimistic" trades in here is making me realize the huge potential for disappointment.