Giannis' Development

freewhitemoon · Post #1241 » by **freewhitemoon** » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:10 am

well at least there's no chance of injury

Jez2983 · Post #1242 » by **Jez2983** » Sun May 1, 2016 12:11 am

freewhitemoon wrote:well at least there's no chance of injury

Pretty intense play!

skones · Post #1243 » by **skones** » Mon May 2, 2016 2:19 am

Shaffty wrote:Giannis' last 10 games he shot 42% from 3 on 2.6 attempts a game

Too small of a sample size to draw anything conclusive from it given his history in that area.

DutchManDanFan · Post #1244 » by **DutchManDanFan** » Mon May 2, 2016 9:54 am

Because he averaged 2.6 3pa earlier in his career?

Post #1245 » by **ReasonablySober** » Mon May 2, 2016 1:32 pm

Re: Giannis vs KAT, if you were asking me before March I don't think it would be much of a discussion. But then Point Giannis happened and I'm probably keeping our guy. KAT can be an all-time big, but I don't know if it's possible for him to effect the game in as many ways as a seven foot PG who drops into the paint on defense.

Ron Swanson · Post #1246 » by **Ron Swanson** » Mon May 2, 2016 3:06 pm

KAT was amazing as a rookie but are people already taking him over Anthony Davis? Heck, Davis shot almost identical from 3PT range (32%) on 20 more attempts than KAT, so it's not like I'm giving Towns the edge shooting-wise yet just based on one rookie year 80 attempt sample size.

It's a worthwhile debate, but saying you'd "easily" take KAT over anyone is pretty premature.

M-C-G · Post #1247 » by **M-C-G** » Mon May 2, 2016 3:15 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:KAT was amazing as a rookie but are people already taking him over Anthony Davis? Heck, Davis shot almost identical from 3PT range (32%) on 20 more attempts than KAT, so it's not like I'm giving Towns the edge shooting-wise yet just based on one rookie year 80 attempt sample size.

It's a worthwhile debate, but saying you'd "easily" take KAT over anyone is pretty premature.

Honest question, did Anthony Davis develop into the all world defender people thought he would? Only reason I ask, is because I have always assumed he is excellent on defense, but then saw some of the NOP fans questioning his defense when talking about pairing him with Moose.

As for KAT vs Giannis, I am pretty sure last year I went on record saying I would not trade Giannis for Anthony Davis, and I am happy to go on record to say I aint trading him for KAT. Too much sentimental value built up at this point.

freewhitemoon · Post #1248 » by **freewhitemoon** » Mon May 2, 2016 3:21 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:KAT was amazing as a rookie but are people already taking him over Anthony Davis? Heck, Davis shot almost identical from 3PT range (32%) on 20 more attempts than KAT, so it's not like I'm giving Towns the edge shooting-wise yet just based on one rookie year 80 attempt sample size.

It's a worthwhile debate, but saying you'd "easily" take KAT over anyone is pretty premature.

KAT didnt take many 3s (mainly because Mitchell is a dumbass) but took a lot of long 2s. He shot 50.6% between 16 feet and 3 pt range compared to 43% for Anthony Davis. Actually I think KAT leads the league in % for that range. As a comparison, KD shot 46% at that range.

So yeah I think most GMs would quite comfortably take KAT over AD now considering KAT has true center size, better shooting and isn't prone to injury

freewhitemoon · Post #1249 » by **freewhitemoon** » Mon May 2, 2016 3:23 pm

M-C-G wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:KAT was amazing as a rookie but are people already taking him over Anthony Davis? Heck, Davis shot almost identical from 3PT range (32%) on 20 more attempts than KAT, so it's not like I'm giving Towns the edge shooting-wise yet just based on one rookie year 80 attempt sample size.

It's a worthwhile debate, but saying you'd "easily" take KAT over anyone is pretty premature.

Honest question, did Anthony Davis develop into the all world defender people thought he would? Only reason I ask, is because I have always assumed he is excellent on defense, but then saw some of the NOP fans questioning his defense when talking about pairing him with Moose.

As for KAT vs Giannis, I am pretty sure last year I went on record saying I would not trade Giannis for Anthony Davis, and I am happy to go on record to say I aint trading him for KAT. Too much sentimental value built up at this point.

Davis was a good defender last season but was overrated (he got DPOY votes even). This season he has sucked on defense but their whole team has been lousy

Ron Swanson · Post #1250 » by **Ron Swanson** » Mon May 2, 2016 3:26 pm

M-C-G wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:KAT was amazing as a rookie but are people already taking him over Anthony Davis? Heck, Davis shot almost identical from 3PT range (32%) on 20 more attempts than KAT, so it's not like I'm giving Towns the edge shooting-wise yet just based on one rookie year 80 attempt sample size.

It's a worthwhile debate, but saying you'd "easily" take KAT over anyone is pretty premature.

Honest question, did Anthony Davis develop into the all world defender people thought he would? Only reason I ask, is because I have always assumed he is excellent on defense, but then saw some of the NOP fans questioning his defense when talking about pairing him with Moose.

As for KAT vs Giannis, I am pretty sure last year I went on record saying I would not trade Giannis for Anthony Davis, and I am happy to go on record to say I aint trading him for KAT. Too much sentimental value built up at this point.

His defense regressed this year but I don't think it's fair to expect him to carry the offense like he has as well as be a DPOTY caliber defender and exert all that energy on the defensive side. It's hard for me to say his defense has been "disappointing" when he's still giving you 1.4 STL and 2.6 BLK per game, and trying to carry a broken down Asik or slow as molasses Ajinca when they're on the court together.

Presence · Post #1251 » by **Presence** » Mon May 2, 2016 4:07 pm

KAT is not a good defender yet, his shooting is good but he's wide open more often than not (he barely elevates) due to playing C and his game is polished enough to not warrant much further development imo. I see the same issues with Davis, meaning that when you reach a certain point of excellency as a young PF/C, people expect you to continue improving in leaps and bounds, and that just can't happen due to the lack of facets of the game you can work on.

I take Giannis 100 times out of 100. He's so fun to watch and I really don't know how good he'll become, but I'm positive his ceiling is higher.

Ayt · Post #1252 » by **Ayt** » Mon May 2, 2016 4:15 pm

Presence wrote:KAT is not a good defender yet, his shooting is good but he's wide open more often than not (he barely elevates) due to playing C and his game is polished enough to not warrant much further development imo. I see the same issues with Davis, meaning that when you reach a certain point of excellency as a young PF/C, people expect you to continue improving in leaps and bounds, and that just can't happen due to the lack of facets of the game you can work on.

I take Giannis 100 times out of 100. He's so fun to watch and I really don't know how good he'll become, but I'm positive his ceiling is higher.

He was a 20-year-old rookie who played one year in college (and didn't even play big minutes at Kentucky). You don't think he still has a ton of development to do? Despite how well he played, there are a lot of things he can get better at.

I can understand people taking Giannis for a lot of different reasons, but I can't say this argument makes much sense.

H2tObes · Post #1253 » by **H2tObes** » Mon May 2, 2016 4:25 pm

Ayt wrote:
Presence wrote:KAT is not a good defender yet, his shooting is good but he's wide open more often than not (he barely elevates) due to playing C and his game is polished enough to not warrant much further development imo. I see the same issues with Davis, meaning that when you reach a certain point of excellency as a young PF/C, people expect you to continue improving in leaps and bounds, and that just can't happen due to the lack of facets of the game you can work on.

I take Giannis 100 times out of 100. He's so fun to watch and I really don't know how good he'll become, but I'm positive his ceiling is higher.

He was a 20-year-old rookie who played one year in college (and didn't even play big minutes at Kentucky). You don't think he still has a ton of development to do? Despite how well he played, there are a lot of things he can get better at.

I can understand people taking Giannis for a lot of different reasons, but I can't say this argument makes much sense.

Maybe he means like Tim Duncan where he enters the league extremely good and his numbers don't improve much from there. I could see that. That's not saying he won't get better, but it is hard to improve on 18/10/2

freewhitemoon · Post #1254 » by **freewhitemoon** » Mon May 2, 2016 4:28 pm

Tim Duncan spent 4 years in college though. KAT has so much more development not just in his game but physically as well. His legs are twig thin

H2tObes · Post #1255 » by **H2tObes** » Mon May 2, 2016 4:30 pm

freewhitemoon wrote:Tim Duncan spent 4 years in college though. KAT has so much more development not just in his game but physically as well. His legs are twig thin

Yeah but Timmy D was only 21 when he entered the league. KAT obviously will get better, but I'm curious how far he will go from here.

emunney · Post #1256 » by **emunney** » Mon May 2, 2016 4:48 pm

KAT makes tons of mistakes and is overall not a very good player right now in spite of the amazing things he frequently does. He is however a phenomenal player for a young rookie and I fully expect he'll be great before his contract is up.

Post #1257 » by **Prez** » Mon May 2, 2016 7:30 pm

Presence makes a good point, and really sums up why I like Giannis' upside over KAT...KAT is an amazing prospect but he's so refined at this point, I don't think he has massive room to improve in multiple areas. He could smooth out his post game, continue improving his jumpshot, get stronger, become a better decision maker, etc...but for the most part his game has a well-rounded foundation and I don't see one single area with huge room for improvement.

It sounds silly because it seems like criticizing him for being good, but it's more of just..can he really improve as much as Giannis can? Because if Giannis becomes a good midrange shooter and competent 3PT shooter, I see him exploding in a way I can't see with KAT. The kid is pretty much a 19/9/7 type guy right now with minimal range and is still a baby in this new PG role..with range and more experience at PG, his ceiling is limitless.

Post #1258 » by **ReasonablySober** » Mon May 2, 2016 7:37 pm

I'm guessing KAT is going to see massive improvements in his defensive awareness, rebounding percentage, range and shooting percentage, and playmaking ability. He could be Dirk offensively and KG defensively. His upside is enormous.

Post #1259 » by **Prez** » Mon May 2, 2016 7:57 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:I'm guessing KAT is going to see massive improvements in his defensive awareness, rebounding percentage, range and shooting percentage, and playmaking ability. He could be Dirk offensively and KG defensively. His upside is enormous.

Massive? The guy shot 54% and 34% from 3, averaged almost 12 boards per 36. His passing is already good. Defensive awareness, sure. I see him improving in all those other areas but "massive" improvement would put him at far and away GOAT status. Massive improvement is what I think is possible with Giannis' shooting or defensive presence.

Post #1260 » by **ReasonablySober** » Mon May 2, 2016 8:00 pm

Milbuck wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:I'm guessing KAT is going to see massive improvements in his defensive awareness, rebounding percentage, range and shooting percentage, and playmaking ability. He could be Dirk offensively and KG defensively. His upside is enormous.
Massive? The guy shot 54% and 34% from 3, averaged almost 12 boards per 36. His passing is already good. Defensive awareness, sure. I see him improving in all those other areas but "massive" improvement would put him at far and away GOAT status. Massive improvement is what I think is possible with Giannis' shooting or defensive presence.

Yea, I think he'll be at or close to a 40% shooter from three, lead the league in rebounding a few times, double that assist rate while playing NBA elite post-defense. That's massive improvement.