Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1

[ChokeFasncists]

I think Lin fans are generally more upset than Hornets fans because Lin fans have higher expectation. For a lot of fans, the Hornets making the playoffs is an accomplishment. Winning a playoff game for the first time in 14 years? Overachieving. Winning 2 in a row? Surreal. Winning 3? It's a miracle. The future is bright.

Lin wanted more. Lin fans wanted more. Lin has already been to the playoffs a few times but never got out of the first round. The Hornets had two shots at getting it done, but couldn't. Huge disappointment. The future is full of uncertainties.

At the end of the day, Lin has given the Hornets everything he has, has helped the team to get to the playoffs, and has been classy throughout. $2.1M well spent. The Hornets have given Lin just enough to show the rest of the league what he can do, whenever an opportunity presented itself.

Free agency begins in 2 months. We'll see what happens then.

too bad Lin didn't show up when we really needed him in game 6. If he would have made two more baskets we would have won

Nobody showed up in Game 6 besides Kemba. The whole team got complacent and too happy after Game 5.

It's tough, gotta keep in mind, a lot of the guys were playoffs win virgins coming into this series. Lee probably hadn't made a game winning rebound + three point shot for a long time. Al haven't won for a long long time. Lin had never been arguably the most important player for playoff wins. It's inevitable that they'd go all out and were very excited to get three straight wins and an away win. It really hurt that Hawes was out.

It was at home, it helped and might have contributed to overconfidence. Not totally sure if they were complacent and too happy but one thing for sure, they were not as desperate as their opponents. It's gonna be one of Wade's few last chances, and he missed the playoffs last season, he definitely don't want to let this opportunity slip away. Deng, Whiteside, JJ are all free agents. They have big pride as an organization and losing four in a roll would have been unacceptable.

Another possibility was that they were too hyped up in the first two games by the Bosh pep talk and went out of steam, and maybe got overconfident.

And perhaps Pat did something after game 5?

[ChokeFasncists]

"But what I suspect is that 4 or 5 different teams in as many years tells you all you need to know about Lin...he is a respectable journeymen"

Argh.

GSW - he was nothing like the player he became in NY - he didn't have the experience other players did
NY - Darlyl Morey and poison pill
Houston - clearing cap space for Chris Bosh deal that fell through
LA Lakers - dysfunctional mess of a team, plus drafting D'Angelo Russell

I'm not saying Lin's a superstar or even that he should start. I like him as sixth man. But this blah blah blah about the number of times Lin has moved teams. When a good argument could be made that he is the best backup PG in the league right now ...

When Lin played such a significant role in games 3, 4 and 5 that the Hornets won

Still people put all this significance into Lin moving around --

what I notice is that at NY, Houston and Charlotte, he joined teams that had not been to the playoffs in a long time - NY and Houston - and had just been once recently - Charlotte - and he was an important part of squads that took them to playoffs in each of the years he played for them.

What I notice is that each of those teams played with a lot of joy and camaraderie. (It is hard to remember it now but Lin's first year in Houston, they were one of the cool new upstart teams. That's one of the reasons Dwight Howard chose them.)

And I notice that each of the team's was very fun to watch play.

And I notice that he sacrificed and adjusted to make other players better.

Who is the better human being. Lin or MLK?

Well, as per their beliefs, only the above can be the judge.

[ChokeFasncists]

I think Lin fans are generally more upset than Hornets fans because Lin fans have higher expectation. For a lot of fans, the Hornets making the playoffs is an accomplishment. Winning a playoff game for the first time in 14 years? Overachieving. Winning 2 in a row? Surreal. Winning 3? It's a miracle. The future is bright.

Lin wanted more. Lin fans wanted more. Lin has already been to the playoffs a few times but never got out of the first round. The Hornets had two shots at getting it done, but couldn't. Huge disappointment. The future is full of uncertainties.

At the end of the day, Lin has given the Hornets everything he has, has helped the team to get to the playoffs, and has been classy throughout. $2.1M well spent. The Hornets have given Lin just enough to show the rest of the league what he can do, whenever an opportunity presented itself.

Free agency begins in 2 months. We'll see what happens then.

too bad Lin didn't show up when we really needed him in game 6. If he would have made two more baskets we would have won

C'est la vie, two charging calls that could have gone either way. Dam......what if those were blocking fouls, Lin made 4 FTs and remain having 3 fouls?

[rallydurham]

Why don't we just try lin at power forward then since he's more valuable than marvin.

6'3 backup guards are a dime a dozen compared to nimble power forwards who can shoot.

It's a supply/demand issue. With the #21 pick we could target a guy to replace lin somewhat capably.

We'd barely be able to find a 6'9 guy that can tie his shoe laces

[Flip Murray]

too bad Lin didn't show up when we really needed him in game 6. If he would have made two more baskets we would have won

Nobody showed up in Game 6 besides Kemba. The whole team got complacent and too happy after Game 5.

It's tough, gotta keep in mind, a lot of the guys were playoffs win virgins coming into this series. Lee probably hadn't made a game winning rebound + three point shot for a long time. Al haven't won for a long long time. Lin had never been arguably the most important player for playoff wins. It's inevitable that they'd go all out and were very excited to get three straight wins and an away win. It really hurt that Hawes was out.

It was at home, it helped and might have contributed to overconfidence. Not totally sure if they were complacent and too happy but one thing for sure, they were not as desperate as their opponents. It's gonna be one of Wade's few last chances, and he missed the playoffs last season, he definitely don't want to let this opportunity slip away. Deng, Whiteside, JJ are all free agents. They have big pride as an organization and losing four in a roll would have been unacceptable.

Another possibility was that they were too hyped up in the first two games by the Bosh pep talk and went out of steam, and maybe got overconfident.

And perhaps Pat did something after game 5?

Lee was basically our only guy with real playoff experience. He's played in the NBA finals even. Lin has some experience as well. This is all very true though, I think our team may have underestimated what it was going to take to close out a playoff series. Hopefully its a lesson learned.

Edit: Forgot Batum but he was largely injured

[CobraCommander]

Lin isn't just kemba's backup. He plays both positions. If the game slows down Lin isn't going to be ab,e to guard wade at 6'3. But as I've said many times before if he is going to play off guard on defense you have to take advantage of him on offense. 3&D is not lin.

BTW you do the math he had 9 points in 19 minutes. You asking the so called pack up point guard as you place him to put the team on his shoulders?

Lin is a solid back up combo guard. Like I said- I would love to have him as our back up...Tomorrow! I just don't want to put the pressure of winning a game on series on Lin. That's just unrealistic and unfair

It is quite obvious that you come to this forum with a non-basketball related agenda.

Obviously- I have might like Lin for other reasons...so what. I'm still a ball fan. It would be one thing if I wasn't a basketball fan and came to the forum to trash or troll.

[kinein]

Why don't we just try lin at power forward then since he's more valuable than marvin.

6'3 backup guards are a dime a dozen compared to nimble power forwards who can shoot.

It's a supply/demand issue. With the #21 pick we could target a guy to replace lin somewhat capably.

We'd barely be able to find a 6'9 guy that can tie his shoe laces

Marvin is important to the team, but if he offensively goes 0 for 0 for 0 but how often does that happen.

[fatlever]

Nobody showed up in Game 6 besides Kemba. The whole team got complacent and too happy after Game 5.

It's tough, gotta keep in mind, a lot of the guys were playoffs win virgins coming into this series. Lee probably hadn't made a game winning rebound + three point shot for a long time. Al haven't won for a long long time. Lin had never been arguably the most important player for playoff wins. It's inevitable that they'd go all out and were very excited to get three straight wins and an away win. It really hurt that Hawes was out.

It was at home, it helped and might have contributed to overconfidence. Not totally sure if they were complacent and too happy but one thing for sure, they were not as desperate as their opponents. It's gonna be one of Wade's few last chances, and he missed the playoffs last season, he definitely don't want to let this opportunity slip away. Deng, Whiteside, JJ are all free agents. They have big pride as an organization and losing four in a roll would have been unacceptable.

Another possibility was that they were too hyped up in the first two games by the Bosh pep talk and went out of steam, and maybe got overconfident.

And perhaps Pat did something after game 5?

Lee was basically our only guy with real playoff experience. He's played in the NBA finals even. Lin has some experience as well. This is all very true though, I think our team may have underestimated what it was going to take to close out a playoff series.Hopefully its a lesson learned.

Edit: Forgot Batum but he was largely injured

I made a long post after game 5 about how the Hornets didn't know how to close out a series compared to the Heat,but deleted it before I posted. I looked up all the series all our players had ever won vs the Heat and it wasn't even close. Wade had closed out more series in one finals run than everyone on our team put together except Lee.

[13th Man]

Unless Lin wants to take another shot at stealing Kemba's job, he really should go to whoever is willing to offer him the best role and the most money he can possibly get.

He's not out to take Kemba's job, seems pretty content being a backup here as long as he's an important piece of the puzzle. He also has a great relationship with Kemba so there's no hidden agenda here.

While Lin should be HAPPY with 6 mil? An utter joke.

Seems to me that money is not as important to him as his happiness.

If Lin wants to be a starter, then he needs to goto somewhere that will hand him the reins and give him good money (at least 8 mil)

Maybe that's not as high on his priority list as it used to be? Personally, I think he's still traumatized by his starting experiences in Houston and L.A. Lol. But seriously, those years must've taken a toll on him mentally.

Lin pretty much maxed out what he can do with the Hornets (6th man), so why stick around unless theyre willing to pay a premium.

Not really. This team almost made it to the 2nd round while hobbled and injured. The potential is there to go a lot farther with everyone healthy especially MKG. He can still improve his game here as well, notably his shooting and his poise as he gains more comfort with his teammates and the system.

If Lin wants to take the next step as a solid starter then he needs to go somewhere where he will get alot of starting mins and sink or swim from there.

That's assuming that starting is the most important thing for him. Also, he would need to get offers to start, which we don't know if it'll even happen.

As i said many times before, he fails as a starter, there's no shame in being a top notch 6th man as he's ably proven so far in his career, if he succeeds, then great Lin was smart to put himself in that situation in the 1st place to show everyone what he can do.

He's already "failed" as a starter twice, maybe he doesn't want to endure the same BS (no pun intended lol).

I'm sorry, unless Kemba goes down with serious injury or he reverts back to old Kemba, whats the point of Lin sticking around as a 6th man? While its great he's having fun and all that, he'll have MORE fun as a starter on a team that believes in him as a starter and not just a 6th man.

How do you know he'd have more fun as a starter elsewhere? You don't, only Lin knows this.

I highly doubt Lin wants to look back after his career is over and think, "man what if i had taken so and so team's offer to be their starter, would my career have gone better than keeping myself as a backup?" Obviously he owes it to himself to do whats best for him so why not go forth and take the chance at being something greater than what he already has. Whats he got to lose? He's already playing with house money in making it as far as he has already.

He's got his happiness to lose which is worth a lot to him, probably more than money or personal accolades.

I'm not saying that he's definitely going to stay here, FA hasn't started yet so we don't know what type of offers he'll be receiving but from what he's been saying lately it seems to me like unless he gets a pretty good offer elsewhere he'll be inclined to stick around here where he's happy.

[KM6]

Unless Lin wants to take another shot at stealing Kemba's job, he really should go to whoever is willing to offer him the best role and the most money he can possibly get.

He's not out to take Kemba's job, seems pretty content being a backup here as long as he's an important piece of the puzzle. He also has a great relationship with Kemba so there's no hidden agenda here.

While Lin should be HAPPY with 6 mil? An utter joke.

Seems to me that money is not as important to him as his happiness.

If Lin wants to be a starter, then he needs to goto somewhere that will hand him the reins and give him good money (at least 8 mil)

Maybe that's not as high on his priority list as it used to be? Personally, I think he's still traumatized by his starting experiences in Houston and L.A. Lol. But seriously, those years must've taken a toll on him mentally.

Lin pretty much maxed out what he can do with the Hornets (6th man), so why stick around unless theyre willing to pay a premium.

Not really. This team almost made it to the 2nd round while hobbled and injured. The potential is there to go a lot farther with everyone healthy especially MKG. He can still improve his game here as well, notably his shooting and his poise as he gains more comfort with his teammates and the system.

If Lin wants to take the next step as a solid starter then he needs to go somewhere where he will get alot of starting mins and sink or swim from there.

That's assuming that starting is the most important thing for him. Also, he would need to get offers to start, which we don't know if it'll even happen.

As i said many times before, he fails as a starter, there's no shame in being a top notch 6th man as he's ably proven so far in his career, if he succeeds, then great Lin was smart to put himself in that situation in the 1st place to show everyone what he can do.

He's already "failed" as a starter twice, maybe he doesn't want to endure the same BS (no pun intended lol).

I'm sorry, unless Kemba goes down with serious injury or he reverts back to old Kemba, whats the point of Lin sticking around as a 6th man? While its great he's having fun and all that, he'll have MORE fun as a starter on a team that believes in him as a starter and not just a 6th man.

How do you know he'd have more fun as a starter elsewhere? You don't, only Lin knows this.

I highly doubt Lin wants to look back after his career is over and think, "man what if i had taken so and so team's offer to be their starter, would my career have gone better than keeping myself as a backup?" Obviously he owes it to himself to do whats best for him so why not go forth and take the chance at being something greater than what he already has. Whats he got to lose? He's already playing with house money in making it as far as he has already.

He's got his happiness to lose which is worth a lot to him, probably more than money or personal accolades.

I'm not saying that he's definitely going to stay here, FA hasn't started yet so we don't know what type of offers he'll be receiving but from what he's been saying lately it seems to me like unless he gets a pretty good offer elsewhere he'll be inclined to stick around here where he's happy.

The FO and Media for Charlotte had been very nice to Lin, the fans here are nothing but class, especially compared to some of the fans from other teams Jeremy had played for in the past. I wish Charlotte the best of luck moving forward, hope the winning ways can continue after this successful season.

For getting paid 2 mil per year, Lin had done a lot for this organization, and I think it's safe to say, the benefits are mutual for both parties. Lin deserves to play with happiness and to showcase his full potential, he also deserve to get paid after taking such a steep discount in the past season. Whether he stays at Charlotte or not, no one can fault him, so wish him the best luck as well, and hope whatever choice he makes, he can be truly happy with the results.

[TinmanZBoy]

^
I think lin is really into all the hypes and non-sense stuff...why not keep it simple? Just ball, do it with your best ability...whether fans like me or not, how other people see would not affect me approaching the business... No matter where u go, what u do, with hypes, u will always get haters doubters... If u believe yourself, go for it, really don't need to care what others think and say, don't play with a baggage on your back...

[TinmanZBoy]

I think Kobe and lakers were right about lin, he lacks killer instinct, which is very important for a star... He is just a fan loving dude who likes playing basketball... Linsanity brought out a glimpse of his swagger... If u think he still had it when he was traded to the lakers( because he said he were in hibernation the last two years in Houston), now I think it is totally gone, linsaity is history...

[KM6]

I think Kobe and lakers were right about lin, he lacks killer instinct, which is very important for a star... He is just a fan loving dude who likes playing basketball... Linsanity brought out a glimpse of his swagger... If u think he still had it when he was traded to the lakers( because he said he were in hibernation the last two years in Houston), now I think it is totally gone, linsaity is history...

Linsanity might be gone, but what's left is Jeremy Lin, a very good PG who can do a very decent job playing as SG when necessary.

[2k15]

I think Kobe and lakers were right about lin, he lacks killer instinct, which is very important for a star... He is just a fan loving dude who likes playing basketball... Linsanity brought out a glimpse of his swagger... If u think he still had it when he was traded to the lakers( because he said he were in hibernation the last two years in Houston), now I think it is totally gone, linsaity is history...

i mean, it sounds like you don't really know lin. he never had killer instinct like kobe had killer instinct. he plays with swagger because he likes spotlights and big moments but swagger is not killer instinct.

[bws94]

I think Kobe and lakers were right about lin, he lacks killer instinct, which is very important for a star... He is just a fan loving dude who likes playing basketball... Linsanity brought out a glimpse of his swagger... If u think he still had it when he was traded to the lakers( because he said he were in hibernation the last two years in Houston), now I think it is totally gone, linsaity is history...

I don't think it's killer instinct he lacks. In his interview he said something like keep our feet on their throat.

I think he didn't love being the man on the Knicks since Day 1 and all of the Linsanity craziness and would rather be a contributing, impact player in tandem with others. I also think at the end of the game he doesn't like going one-on-one and embarrassing his defender while others love that and talking trash to them. I think Lin looks more to take it to the D and find seams, but not a defender in particular. Lin's not a one-on-one player IMO.

[TinmanZBoy]

I think Kobe and lakers were right about lin, he lacks killer instinct, which is very important for a star... He is just a fan loving dude who likes playing basketball... Linsanity brought out a glimpse of his swagger... If u think he still had it when he was traded to the lakers( because he said he were in hibernation the last two years in Houston), now I think it is totally gone, linsaity is history...

Linsanity might be gone, but what's left is Jeremy Lin, a very good PG who can do a very decent job playing as SG when necessary.

Yes, I am saying this with a sad face... After all, I think lin just does not have it... But I am happy for him it seems he found his truer calling... Linsanity was good, but it is not who he is..

[TinmanZBoy]

I think Kobe and lakers were right about lin, he lacks killer instinct, which is very important for a star... He is just a fan loving dude who likes playing basketball... Linsanity brought out a glimpse of his swagger... If u think he still had it when he was traded to the lakers( because he said he were in hibernation the last two years in Houston), now I think it is totally gone, linsaity is history...

i mean, it sounds like you don't really know lin. he never had killer instinct like kobe had killer instinct. he plays with swagger because he likes spotlights and big moments but swagger is not killer instinct.

U can't compare lin with Kobe....but in this league if u want to be a star, u have to have it... Kemba, IT, all had to fight so hard to be this level because of their miniature size... Lin had the aspiration to be an all star, to be a starting pg, I don't think have it now...

[rallydurham]

all the hype about lin having a great year in charlotte is interesting. He really just benefitted from much lower expectations here and from us being much better than the lakers. Our fans aren't as rabid as the lakers and we've had really poor backup pg situation for many of our years.

I mean statistically his shooting numbers dipped a bit, his steals and assists dipped dramatically, his turnovers only improved slightly.

I'm not really sure why everyone thinks he had some sort of career renaissance. I think he showed he's a capable player at two positions which helps his value a little. He stayed healthy so that helps as well.

His expectations were a lot lower on a small contract i think that's really the big difference. I can't imagine he did anything to establish his value as a full time starter though.

What were the rumored teams interested in him last season besides us, anyone know?

I just can't see what he did to establish much more value than he already had last offseason. Other than getting the stink of that horrible lakers team off of him and the cap spike of course...

[2k15]

I think Kobe and lakers were right about lin, he lacks killer instinct, which is very important for a star... He is just a fan loving dude who likes playing basketball... Linsanity brought out a glimpse of his swagger... If u think he still had it when he was traded to the lakers( because he said he were in hibernation the last two years in Houston), now I think it is totally gone, linsaity is history...

i mean, it sounds like you don't really know lin. he never had killer instinct like kobe had killer instinct. he plays with swagger because he likes spotlights and big moments but swagger is not killer instinct.

U can't compare lin with Kobe....but in this league if u want to be a star, u have to have it... Kemba, IT, all had to fight so hard to be this level because of their miniature size... Lin had the aspiration to be an all star, to be a starting pg, I don't think have it now...

idk. there are two different points here right.

1. IT/kemba played hard because they're small and so to be better, they gotta work harder. i.e. they played with a chip on their shoulder. is it true that lin doesnt have a chip on his shoulder anymore? maybe, but i dont see why that means he cant be a really good player or an All-star even.

2. should lin want to be an all-star? if he does, then he gotta leave this summer and go get whatever starter job he can. its not clear to me he ever did. even during lin's days as a knick, during linsanity, what he loved was the team play and the togetherness of the group. he wants to play well and win a chip but individual accolades has never been something he pined for.

[phillycheese]

Why don't we just try lin at power forward then since he's more valuable than marvin.

6'3 backup guards are a dime a dozen compared to nimble power forwards who can shoot.

It's a supply/demand issue. With the #21 pick we could target a guy to replace lin somewhat capably.

We'd barely be able to find a 6'9 guy that can tie his shoe laces

Well, we did have Lin guarding Deng a few times and even on Whiteside under the basket. Lin tried for the steal against Whiteside and JVG called him out as a bad play and to put a body on Whiteside. Like Lin putting a body on Whiteside will really matter much.

Not many back up guards can get you 25/7/4 against the best teams, and do it several time a season, and sometimes do it off the bench too and do it for $2+mm. Lin vs Cory Joseph since many regards CJ as the premier back up point guard. CJ is team oriented having played well for SAS, and also plays for a top playoff team behind two solid starting guards. Lets put together a side by side compare between the two, their best games this year (top 8 games, 10% of season) - Pts/Asts/Rebs - Joseph on the left.
19/4/3 vs Orlando 35/4/5 vs Toronto
19/0/1 vs Orlando 29/2/7 vs SAS
18/9/1 vs Indiana 26/5/5 vs NYK
18/6/2 vs Wash 26/4/4 vs LAC
18/6/2 vs Minn 25/5/7 vs Boston
17/4/4 vs Sac 24/8/5 vs Cleveland
16/7/1 vs SAS 21/7/4 vs Toronto
16/4/2 vs Detroit 20/11/7 vs Sac
Only a couple of teams on Joseph's list are playoff teams whereas almost all of Lin's top performances came against playoff teams. Head to head, no contest either. One guy got $7mm plus and the other guy got $5mm less. Joseph is 3 years younger but Lin has better historical performance. Not much point comparing WIlliams to Lin, and I agree Williams will likely get more $$$ but not sure he can win you as many games as Lin can almost singlehandedly.