Team declined Solo's option

[8305]

If 2.3 mil is as high as we can go with a year 1 offer, he's gone. During the Toronto series Solo demonstrated a skill set that is coveted by all good teams (hitting shots and defending 3 to 4 positions). I wouldn't be surprised to see a an offer in the range of 3 years 15 mil. Doubtful we can compete with that. Its a shame things worked out this way. He looked like the exact player we were hoping for when he was drafted against Toronto.

[Scoot McGroot]

If 2.3 mil is as high as we can go with a year 1 offer, he's gone. During the Toronto series Solo demonstrated a skill set that is coveted by all good teams (hitting shots and defending 3 to 4 positions). I wouldn't be surprised to see a an offer in the range of 3 years 15 mil. Doubtful we can compete with that. Its a shame things worked out this way. He looked like the exact player we were hoping for when he was drafted against Toronto.

I believe that we can make an offer longer than 1 year, just that the first year salary is limited to $2.3m. I'm not sure if it can be constructed like a "Gilbert Arenas contract" where an average salary is offered (say $6m per), and the first year is $2.3m, and then the 2nd and 3rd years balloon up to average out at that $6m per or not, but we'll find out.


Either way, who's to say that Solo would have put in the work or focus if we hadn't declined his option? He showed up to camp overweight and having not worked on his game. Maybe it was the decline that really flipped the switch for him to put the work in and put it all together by late in the year? It is what it is.

[pacers33granger]

If 2.3 mil is as high as we can go with a year 1 offer, he's gone. During the Toronto series Solo demonstrated a skill set that is coveted by all good teams (hitting shots and defending 3 to 4 positions). I wouldn't be surprised to see a an offer in the range of 3 years 15 mil. Doubtful we can compete with that. Its a shame things worked out this way. He looked like the exact player we were hoping for when he was drafted against Toronto.

I believe that we can make an offer longer than 1 year, just that the first year salary is limited to $2.3m. I'm not sure if it can be constructed like a "Gilbert Arenas contract" where an average salary is offered (say $6m per), and the first year is $2.3m, and then the 2nd and 3rd years balloon up to average out at that $6m per or not, but we'll find out.

I don't think so reading the CBA. This is what I can find on it so far:

Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Agreement,
if a player is a Veteran Free Agent whose last Contract was a
Rookie Scale Contract and whose Prior Team did not exercise the
first Option Year to extend such Contract for a third Season or
whose Prior Team did not exercise its second Option Year to
extend such Contract for a fourth Season, then any new Player
Contract that the player and Team with whom the player was
under his Rookie Scale Contract enter into may provide for
Regular Salary, Likely Bonuses and Unlikely Bonuses in the first
Salary Cap Year of up to the Regular Salary, Likely Bonuses and
Unlikely Bonuses, respectively, that the player would have
received for such Salary Cap Year had his Prior Team exercised its
first or second Option Year (as applicable). Annual increases and
decreases in Salary and Unlikely Bonuses shall be governed by
Section 5(c)(2) above.


5(c)(2)
(2) The following rules apply to all Player Contracts between
Qualifying Veteran Free Agents or Early Qualifying Veteran Free
Agents and their Prior Team (except any such Contracts signed
pursuant to Section 6(d)(3), Section 6(e)(2), Section 6(f)(3),
Section 6(g)(3) or Section 8(e)(1) below, which shall be governed
by Section 5(c)(1) above):
(i) For each Salary Cap Year covered by a Player Contract after
the first Salary Cap Year, the player’s Salary, excluding
Incentive Compensation, may increase or decrease in
relation to the previous Salary Cap Year’s Salary, excluding
Incentive Compensation, by no more than seven and onehalf
percent (7.5%) of the Regular Salary for the first Salary
Cap Year covered by the Contract.
(ii) In the event that the first Salary Cap Year covered by a
Contract provides for Incentive Compensation, the total
amount of Likely Bonuses in each subsequent Salary Cap
Year covered by the Contract may increase or decrease by
up to seven and one-half percent (7.5%) of the amount of
Likely Bonuses in the first Salary Cap Year, and the total
amount of Unlikely Bonuses in each subsequent Salary Cap
Year may increase or decrease by up to seven and one-half
percent (7.5%) of the amount of Unlikely Bonuses in the
first Salary Cap Year.


So I think we're out of luck unless I'm missing something from another area of the CBA or reading it wrong.

[Jake0890]

Team leadership got together and decided Solomon Hill wasn't worth keeping around for a 4th year while we're not exactly in the most financially flexible place. How they reached that decision is far beyond anything I can comprehend, no rookie DOESN'T stay for 4 years.

Now reporters are saying he could go 7-8 MILLION, far out of our price range.

I'm just scratching my head.

[pacers33granger]

Team leadership got together and decided Solomon Hill wasn't worth keeping around for a 4th year while we're not exactly in the most financially flexible place. How they reached that decision is far beyond anything I can comprehend, no rookie DOESN'T stay for 4 years.

Now reporters are saying he could go 7-8 MILLION, far out of our price range.

I'm just scratching my head.

Well we're in a pretty good place financially this offseason and Hill's money could affect us being able to offer a max contract, but I was adamant that dumping him, if need be, wouldn't take much if anything. And that's if we get a max guy, which is highly unlikely.

But really it's what Scoot has said. He didn't work for it and didn't deserve it, at least as far as Bird was concerned. Now he's worked and priced himself out of what we can offer.

Only way he's back is if he just does not want to leave and takes the one year offer of what his option would be. Which would be stupid of him since it's likely close to 20 mil less overall than what he will be offered by someone else.

[Scoot McGroot]

If 2.3 mil is as high as we can go with a year 1 offer, he's gone. During the Toronto series Solo demonstrated a skill set that is coveted by all good teams (hitting shots and defending 3 to 4 positions). I wouldn't be surprised to see a an offer in the range of 3 years 15 mil. Doubtful we can compete with that. Its a shame things worked out this way. He looked like the exact player we were hoping for when he was drafted against Toronto.

I believe that we can make an offer longer than 1 year, just that the first year salary is limited to $2.3m. I'm not sure if it can be constructed like a "Gilbert Arenas contract" where an average salary is offered (say $6m per), and the first year is $2.3m, and then the 2nd and 3rd years balloon up to average out at that $6m per or not, but we'll find out.

I don't think so reading the CBA. This is what I can find on it so far:

Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Agreement,
if a player is a Veteran Free Agent whose last Contract was a
Rookie Scale Contract and whose Prior Team did not exercise the
first Option Year to extend such Contract for a third Season or
whose Prior Team did not exercise its second Option Year to
extend such Contract for a fourth Season, then any new Player
Contract that the player and Team with whom the player was
under his Rookie Scale Contract enter into may provide for
Regular Salary, Likely Bonuses and Unlikely Bonuses in the first
Salary Cap Year of up to the Regular Salary, Likely Bonuses and
Unlikely Bonuses, respectively, that the player would have
received for such Salary Cap Year had his Prior Team exercised its
first or second Option Year (as applicable). Annual increases and
decreases in Salary and Unlikely Bonuses shall be governed by
Section 5(c)(2) above.


5(c)(2)
(2) The following rules apply to all Player Contracts between
Qualifying Veteran Free Agents or Early Qualifying Veteran Free
Agents and their Prior Team (except any such Contracts signed
pursuant to Section 6(d)(3), Section 6(e)(2), Section 6(f)(3),
Section 6(g)(3) or Section 8(e)(1) below, which shall be governed
by Section 5(c)(1) above):
(i) For each Salary Cap Year covered by a Player Contract after
the first Salary Cap Year, the player’s Salary, excluding
Incentive Compensation, may increase or decrease in
relation to the previous Salary Cap Year’s Salary, excluding
Incentive Compensation, by no more than seven and onehalf
percent (7.5%) of the Regular Salary for the first Salary
Cap Year covered by the Contract.
(ii) In the event that the first Salary Cap Year covered by a
Contract provides for Incentive Compensation, the total
amount of Likely Bonuses in each subsequent Salary Cap
Year covered by the Contract may increase or decrease by
up to seven and one-half percent (7.5%) of the amount of
Likely Bonuses in the first Salary Cap Year, and the total
amount of Unlikely Bonuses in each subsequent Salary Cap
Year may increase or decrease by up to seven and one-half
percent (7.5%) of the amount of Unlikely Bonuses in the
first Salary Cap Year.


So I think we're out of luck unless I'm missing something from another area of the CBA or reading it wrong.

That's standard raises. A Gilbert Arenas provision contract, and the structuring of it, works very different. The old Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik contracts were like that, but as 2nd round picks, didn't hit the provisions of a 1st round pick. They were just a 2nd round pick 3 years out, and ineligible for anything above the league average in the first year of their deals, so they signed contracts that paid them:
year 1: $5.3m
year 2: $5.6m
year 3: $15m

[pacers33granger]

I believe that we can make an offer longer than 1 year, just that the first year salary is limited to $2.3m. I'm not sure if it can be constructed like a "Gilbert Arenas contract" where an average salary is offered (say $6m per), and the first year is $2.3m, and then the 2nd and 3rd years balloon up to average out at that $6m per or not, but we'll find out.

I don't think so reading the CBA. This is what I can find on it so far:

Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Agreement,
if a player is a Veteran Free Agent whose last Contract was a
Rookie Scale Contract and whose Prior Team did not exercise the
first Option Year to extend such Contract for a third Season or
whose Prior Team did not exercise its second Option Year to
extend such Contract for a fourth Season, then any new Player
Contract that the player and Team with whom the player was
under his Rookie Scale Contract enter into may provide for
Regular Salary, Likely Bonuses and Unlikely Bonuses in the first
Salary Cap Year of up to the Regular Salary, Likely Bonuses and
Unlikely Bonuses, respectively, that the player would have
received for such Salary Cap Year had his Prior Team exercised its
first or second Option Year (as applicable). Annual increases and
decreases in Salary and Unlikely Bonuses shall be governed by
Section 5(c)(2) above.


5(c)(2)
(2) The following rules apply to all Player Contracts between
Qualifying Veteran Free Agents or Early Qualifying Veteran Free
Agents and their Prior Team (except any such Contracts signed
pursuant to Section 6(d)(3), Section 6(e)(2), Section 6(f)(3),
Section 6(g)(3) or Section 8(e)(1) below, which shall be governed
by Section 5(c)(1) above):
(i) For each Salary Cap Year covered by a Player Contract after
the first Salary Cap Year, the player’s Salary, excluding
Incentive Compensation, may increase or decrease in
relation to the previous Salary Cap Year’s Salary, excluding
Incentive Compensation, by no more than seven and onehalf
percent (7.5%) of the Regular Salary for the first Salary
Cap Year covered by the Contract.
(ii) In the event that the first Salary Cap Year covered by a
Contract provides for Incentive Compensation, the total
amount of Likely Bonuses in each subsequent Salary Cap
Year covered by the Contract may increase or decrease by
up to seven and one-half percent (7.5%) of the amount of
Likely Bonuses in the first Salary Cap Year, and the total
amount of Unlikely Bonuses in each subsequent Salary Cap
Year may increase or decrease by up to seven and one-half
percent (7.5%) of the amount of Unlikely Bonuses in the
first Salary Cap Year.


So I think we're out of luck unless I'm missing something from another area of the CBA or reading it wrong.

That's standard raises. A Gilbert Arenas provision contract, and the structuring of it, works very different. The old Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik contracts were like that, but as 2nd round picks, didn't hit the provisions of a 1st round pick. They were just a 2nd round pick 3 years out, and ineligible for anything above the league average in the first year of their deals, so they signed contracts that paid them:
year 1: $5.3m
year 2: $5.6m
year 3: $15m

I get that, but the first section is all I could find quickly looking in the CBA and it just says in this specific scenario that the structure is governed by the second part which only mentions the standard raises.

Like I said that, it was a quick look but I wasn't seeing that the Arenas provision applied to when a rookie option was declined.

[pacers33granger]

Looking further into it a bit now and reading Larry Coon's FAQ and I believe that the Arenas provision is limited to players with 1 or 2 years of service:

"Teams are now limited in the salary they can offer in an offer sheet to a restricted free agent with one or two years in the league."

Hill has 3, so I don't think he'd qualify anyways based on that. Only if we declined his first team option I believe. I know Lin/Asik were only 2 years in when they got their deals.