Draft Thread Part 2

[saintEscaton]

It's really too bad with BMac. He had so much talent, he had above average NBA athleticism and he had a beatiful jump shot. He was my pick that year and boy am I glad McD had the foresight to let him fall past #5.

That said, it was a very disappointing draft from a top-5 talent standpoint.

He was my pick as well. I was stunned when he was there and we didn't pull the trigger. FWIW, I still think he is salvageable as a player. He needs to get out of Sacramento, but that can be said for a lot of players on the Kings.

I thought he was a lock for top 5 pick. I too believe he's salvageable. But he'll need to be in the perfect situation for that to happen.

I literally smashed my tv monitor when we picked Len over Noel just bcause our medical staff wouldn't write check on his knee

[AtheJ415]

My mock, as of today:

4. Phoenix - H. Ellenson

13. Phoenix - T. Ulis

I'd be really disappointed if we walked away from this horrid season with Ellenson and Ulis. Not that I have a huge problem with either, but I'd hope for a much larger talent upgrade than that after suffering through one of the worst seasons in franchise history.

Ullis at 13 is insanity imo.

[Waylay13]

TLDR: Hield, Murray, Ingram, Ellenson look more favourable when seeing what traits turn you into a top 5 player at your position.

Ingram looks good for the Suns, Hield and Murray look to be promising players but they are not better then what we already have at the spot. Ellenson doesnt look like a Suns type player at all. He is slow, cant jump and has short arms. I would be up for Davis, Chriss or even Brice Johnson (who some mocks are putting at the end of the first round) over Ellenson.

Ellenson has short arms? News to me. I also think it's worth mentioning that he has a helluva frame - could put a ton of muscle on those enormous shoulders of his.

Sorry on the short that was another person I read about.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/henry-ellenson

Weaknesses: Below average run/jump athlete … Second jump is almost non-existant and his athleticism is far below NBA standard … Lacks explosiveness, raising the question of how effective he can be as a below the rim player at the NBA level … Better in the half court offensive set then in transition ... His below average athleticism has had an effect on his offensive efficiency, particularly around the rim ... His dunks are generally on broken plays or against below average defenders, and infrequent … Slow feet keep him from being a good perimeter defender and slow him in the post as well … May struggle to utilize much of his ball handling ability, particularly in the open floor due to his lack of speed … Body has good weight, but lacks great muscle. Does not seek out contact or play in a physical manner ... Lack of athleticism allows defenders to recover easily and block shots on his attempts around the rim … Likes to face up when he gets the ball and is efficient, but should look to add more post moves ... Lacks great ability in pick and roll defense and in the post ...

[saintEscaton]

Ingram looks good for the Suns, Hield and Murray look to be promising players but they are not better then what we already have at the spot. Ellenson doesnt look like a Suns type player at all. He is slow, cant jump and has short arms. I would be up for Davis, Chriss or even Brice Johnson (who some mocks are putting at the end of the first round) over Ellenson.

Ellenson has short arms? News to me. I also think it's worth mentioning that he has a helluva frame - could put a ton of muscle on those enormous shoulders of his.

Sorry on the short that was another person I read about.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/henry-ellenson

Weaknesses: Below average run/jump athlete … Second jump is almost non-existant and his athleticism is far below NBA standard … Lacks explosiveness, raising the question of how effective he can be as a below the rim player at the NBA level … Better in the half court offensive set then in transition ... His below average athleticism has had an effect on his offensive efficiency, particularly around the rim ... His dunks are generally on broken plays or against below average defenders, and infrequent … Slow feet keep him from being a good perimeter defender and slow him in the post as well … May struggle to utilize much of his ball handling ability, particularly in the open floor due to his lack of speed … Body has good weight, but lacks great muscle. Does not seek out contact or play in a physical manner ... Lack of athleticism allows defenders to recover easily and block shots on his attempts around the rim … Likes to face up when he gets the ball and is efficient, but should look to add more post moves ... Lacks great ability in pick and roll defense and in the post ...

Watch this.Underwhelming to say the least
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qW39BE8yg8[/youtube]

[lilfishi22]

My mock, as of today:

4. Phoenix - H. Ellenson

13. Phoenix - T. Ulis

I'd be really disappointed if we walked away from this horrid season with Ellenson and Ulis. Not that I have a huge problem with either, but I'd hope for a much larger talent upgrade than that after suffering through one of the worst seasons in franchise history.

Ullis at 13 is insanity imo.

Ulis at 13 would be a massive stretch. He's rising up in the draft but the guy hasn't sniffed 1st round mocks until March this year. I would be very disappointed with Ullis that high in the draft. Also, I wouldn't even want Ellenson at #13 let alone #4

[DRK]

I would be very disappointed with Ellenson at 4. Like Lilfishii, I wouldnt even want him at 13. He reminds me of a PF version of Jared Dudley, although I dont even know if he cant play PF with the league going small, and his lack of athleticism and quickness might force us to play him at C.

Watching how Miami is using Luol Deng at the 4 with tremendous success, and the success that Detroit have had with Tobias Harris at the 4 this season, is making me lean towards drafting Jaylen Brown with our pick. Brown has the athleticism to guard the perimeter but also the size to play at the 4, and our team wont be undersized if we pair him next to a traditional center. (Deng/Whiteside), (Dudley/Gortat), (Jaylen/Chandler(or Len)

With Brown playing the 3 and 4 for us, it will open up alot of options for us if we choose to play a small or more traditional lineup. We can also play TJ and Jaylen together, which would not hinder the development of either.

[DRK]

The Tyler Ulis draft stock is skyrocketing because GM's dont want to make the same mistake they did by passing up Isiah Thomas.
He will go first round.

[lilfishi22]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Ulis go in the 1st round but I would be astounded if anyone took him in the top 20. Isaiah Thomas is an absolute exceptions and not the rule. So anyone drafting him and hoping he'll be the next IT would likely be disappointed.

[carey]

The Tyler Ulis draft stock is skyrocketing because GM's dont want to make the same mistake they did by passing up Isiah Thomas.
He will go first round.

Their games are not all that similar. The only thing they have in common really is that they are sub-6' players.

Also, this is more of a pithy throw-away comment, but... he will go first round, just not to the team that traded IT away. Their games aren't similar but their glaring weakness is. The inability to play defense against starting NBA PGs consistently.

[saintEscaton]

The Tyler Ulis draft stock is skyrocketing because GM's dont want to make the same mistake they did by passing up Isiah Thomas.
He will go first round.

Their games are not all that similar. The only thing they have in common really is that they are sub-6' players.

Also, this is more of a pithy throw-away comment, but... he will go first round, just not to the team that traded IT away. Their games aren't similar but their glaring weakness is. The inability to play defense against starting NBA PGs consistently.

What? IT didn't even try on the other end in college, Ulis is the reigning SEC Defensive Player of the Year and is prolific in generating on the ball pressure/disrupting passing lanes. But he has the intangibles to make up for the size disadvantage. Kay Felder is more stylistically similiar to Mighty Mouse but a better distributor , he would be a steal in the second.

[bwgood77]

I'm pretty sure I've read in several places that if Ulis was 5 inches taller or so he would probably be a top 5 pick. I don't know exactly what he can do at the next level, and I don't really want us to draft him (MAYBE if he was there with the Cleveland pick) but I think we need to focus more on the PF position.

If the plan is to trade Knight at some point, and with Bledsoe's injury concerns, getting a guy like Ulis at 27 might not be a bad idea (especially if he is that good defensively as saint pointed out), but not at 13.

[bwgood77]

I would be very disappointed with Ellenson at 4. Like Lilfishii, I wouldnt even want him at 13. He reminds me of a PF version of Jared Dudley, although I dont even know if he cant play PF with the league going small, and his lack of athleticism and quickness might force us to play him at C.

Watching how Miami is using Luol Deng at the 4 with tremendous success, and the success that Detroit have had with Tobias Harris at the 4 this season, is making me lean towards drafting Jaylen Brown with our pick. Brown has the athleticism to guard the perimeter but also the size to play at the 4, and our team wont be undersized if we pair him next to a traditional center. (Deng/Whiteside), (Dudley/Gortat), (Jaylen/Chandler(or Len)

With Brown playing the 3 and 4 for us, it will open up alot of options for us if we choose to play a small or more traditional lineup. We can also play TJ and Jaylen together, which would not hinder the development of either.

Brown is the ideal pick IF he could shoot. But he can't. Shooting is pretty important in the NBA. I know some say that's the easiest thing to learn, but if you haven't learned it by the time you get to the NBA, I doubt you're going to improve it much. Especially when he did so terribly against college competition shooting and then against Hawaii in the tourney.

I think there is a reasonable chance we take him, and if we do, I will be ok with it because I somewhat trust McD, and I will hope to be proved wrong, but I think in this day and age, you really need to draft guys who have shown the ability to shoot, and the more range the better, regardless of position, unless they completely dominate in another area like Whiteside.

[saintEscaton]

I'm pretty sure I've read in several places that if Ulis was 5 inches taller or so he would probably be a top 5 pick. I don't know exactly what he can do at the next level, and I don't really want us to draft him (MAYBE if he was there with the Cleveland pick) but I think we need to focus more on the PF position.

If the plan is to trade Knight at some point, and with Bledsoe's injury concerns, getting a guy like Ulis at 27 might not be a bad idea (especially if he is that good defensively as saint pointed out), but not at 13.

Wade Baldwin isn't a pure point but is pretty intriguing

[bwgood77]

I'm pretty sure I've read in several places that if Ulis was 5 inches taller or so he would probably be a top 5 pick. I don't know exactly what he can do at the next level, and I don't really want us to draft him (MAYBE if he was there with the Cleveland pick) but I think we need to focus more on the PF position.

If the plan is to trade Knight at some point, and with Bledsoe's injury concerns, getting a guy like Ulis at 27 might not be a bad idea (especially if he is that good defensively as saint pointed out), but not at 13.

Wade Baldwin isn't a pure point but is pretty intriguing

Yeah, I kind of like him. Mentioned him a bit a while back.

[DRK]

I would be very disappointed with Ellenson at 4. Like Lilfishii, I wouldnt even want him at 13. He reminds me of a PF version of Jared Dudley, although I dont even know if he cant play PF with the league going small, and his lack of athleticism and quickness might force us to play him at C.

Watching how Miami is using Luol Deng at the 4 with tremendous success, and the success that Detroit have had with Tobias Harris at the 4 this season, is making me lean towards drafting Jaylen Brown with our pick. Brown has the athleticism to guard the perimeter but also the size to play at the 4, and our team wont be undersized if we pair him next to a traditional center. (Deng/Whiteside), (Dudley/Gortat), (Jaylen/Chandler(or Len)

With Brown playing the 3 and 4 for us, it will open up alot of options for us if we choose to play a small or more traditional lineup. We can also play TJ and Jaylen together, which would not hinder the development of either.

Brown is the ideal pick IF he could shoot. But he can't. Shooting is pretty important in the NBA. I know some say that's the easiest thing to learn, but if you haven't learned it by the time you get to the NBA, I doubt you're going to improve it much. Especially when he did so terribly against college competition shooting and then against Hawaii in the tourney.

I think there is a reasonable chance we take him, and if we do, I will be ok with it because I somewhat trust McD, and I will hope to be proved wrong, but I think in this day and age, you really need to draft guys who have shown the ability to shoot, and the more range the better, regardless of position, unless they completely dominate in another area like Whiteside.

Deng wasnt much of an outside threat when he came into the league, nor was Harris, or even Dudley. Brown has shot and made threes in College, at around 30%. Now I know that isnt great at all, but it shows its not completely broken.

[bwgood77]

I would be very disappointed with Ellenson at 4. Like Lilfishii, I wouldnt even want him at 13. He reminds me of a PF version of Jared Dudley, although I dont even know if he cant play PF with the league going small, and his lack of athleticism and quickness might force us to play him at C.

Watching how Miami is using Luol Deng at the 4 with tremendous success, and the success that Detroit have had with Tobias Harris at the 4 this season, is making me lean towards drafting Jaylen Brown with our pick. Brown has the athleticism to guard the perimeter but also the size to play at the 4, and our team wont be undersized if we pair him next to a traditional center. (Deng/Whiteside), (Dudley/Gortat), (Jaylen/Chandler(or Len)

With Brown playing the 3 and 4 for us, it will open up alot of options for us if we choose to play a small or more traditional lineup. We can also play TJ and Jaylen together, which would not hinder the development of either.

Brown is the ideal pick IF he could shoot. But he can't. Shooting is pretty important in the NBA. I know some say that's the easiest thing to learn, but if you haven't learned it by the time you get to the NBA, I doubt you're going to improve it much. Especially when he did so terribly against college competition shooting and then against Hawaii in the tourney.

I think there is a reasonable chance we take him, and if we do, I will be ok with it because I somewhat trust McD, and I will hope to be proved wrong, but I think in this day and age, you really need to draft guys who have shown the ability to shoot, and the more range the better, regardless of position, unless they completely dominate in another area like Whiteside.

Deng wasnt much of an outside threat when he came into the league, nor was Harris, or even Dudley. Brown has shot and made threes in College, at around 30%. Now I know that isnt great at all, but it shows its not completely broken.

Yes, I guess that's even better than Ellenson, who people claim is a stretch 4, but I am not sure on the volume. I guess Warren didn't shoot the 3 particularly well coming in. But Brown is almost purely a go to the rim guy, and that is just not as important unless you can really also shoot really well, like Harden. They just won't guard him. If we do draft him, it seems like it might be kind of an insult to Warren, and Warren was far better in college (I know I mention to compare similar years, and Warren's ACC player of the year over Parker was as a soph, was after a frosh year where he didn't play much due to a stacked team). Plus I have a feeling they are going to keep Tucker. If so not going to be popular with half of the fans and 80% of the most vocal ones.

I think they need to stack on PFs unless someone drops much further than anticipated, or take a stash pick with one of the two between 27 and 34.

[saintEscaton]

Brown is the ideal pick IF he could shoot. But he can't. Shooting is pretty important in the NBA. I know some say that's the easiest thing to learn, but if you haven't learned it by the time you get to the NBA, I doubt you're going to improve it much. Especially when he did so terribly against college competition shooting and then against Hawaii in the tourney.

I think there is a reasonable chance we take him, and if we do, I will be ok with it because I somewhat trust McD, and I will hope to be proved wrong, but I think in this day and age, you really need to draft guys who have shown the ability to shoot, and the more range the better, regardless of position, unless they completely dominate in another area like Whiteside.

Deng wasnt much of an outside threat when he came into the league, nor was Harris, or even Dudley. Brown has shot and made threes in College, at around 30%. Now I know that isnt great at all, but it shows its not completely broken.

Yes, I guess that's even better than Ellenson, who people claim is a stretch 4, but I am not sure on the volume. I guess Warren didn't shoot the 3 particularly well coming in. But Brown is almost purely a go to the rim guy, and that is just not as important unless you can really also shoot really well, like Harden. They just won't guard him. If we do draft him, it seems like it might be kind of an insult to Warren, and Warren was far better in college (I know I mention to compare similar years, and Warren's ACC player of the year over Parker was as a soph, was after a frosh year where he didn't play much due to a stacked team). Plus I have a feeling they are going to keep Tucker. If so not going to be popular with half of the fans and 80% of the most vocal ones.

I think they need to stack on PFs unless someone drops much further than anticipated, or take a stash pick with one of the two between 27 and 34.

We need at least one two-way wing with ideal measurables, can't have both being turnstile defensively. Thats a self-imposed handicap that will be exploited to a tee

[bwgood77]

Deng wasnt much of an outside threat when he came into the league, nor was Harris, or even Dudley. Brown has shot and made threes in College, at around 30%. Now I know that isnt great at all, but it shows its not completely broken.

Yes, I guess that's even better than Ellenson, who people claim is a stretch 4, but I am not sure on the volume. I guess Warren didn't shoot the 3 particularly well coming in. But Brown is almost purely a go to the rim guy, and that is just not as important unless you can really also shoot really well, like Harden. They just won't guard him. If we do draft him, it seems like it might be kind of an insult to Warren, and Warren was far better in college (I know I mention to compare similar years, and Warren's ACC player of the year over Parker was as a soph, was after a frosh year where he didn't play much due to a stacked team). Plus I have a feeling they are going to keep Tucker. If so not going to be popular with half of the fans and 80% of the most vocal ones.

I think they need to stack on PFs unless someone drops much further than anticipated, or take a stash pick with one of the two between 27 and 34.

We need at least one two-way wing with ideal measurables, can't have both being turnstile defensively. Thats a self-imposed handicap that will be exploited to a tee

I agree but am not convinced Brown can do that. Even if he is that good at defense as you suggest, he doesn't have much of an offensive game much like Goodwin. And he couldn't help them beat Hawaii in a first round matchup against a 13 seed while I think Rabb had a decent game. I like players who take over in such situations.

The pickens are slim after 3, and probably after 2, but even though he is the one guy who somewhat fits the bill, I'm not convinced, but again, I won't be that disapponted if we take him, because I really don't want Murray, and we don't need Hield who only really excelled as a senior. So hard to compare Hield as a senior to guys doing well as freshmen. Hopefully it doesn't matter and we land a top 2 pick, and even at 3rd, with this draft class, I still think Bender is worth the risk.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Is Jaylen Brown's physical profile really that great? He is shorter and has shorter wingspan than the top SFs like Durant, James, Leonard, George. Right now he's beating up on college kids with his size and power, but he wouldn't even have an advantage over someone like PJ Tucker when he comes to the NBA.

I was disappointed OG Anunoby didn't declare, as I see him as a better athletic speciman, better defender, better mentality and would have to do similar work to Brown on shooting anyway, and could have gone to the Wiz pick due to lack of exposure.

Also, I just had a look to see Brandon Ingram's dad, and he looks quite buff. It would have been a worry if he was equally as skinny, so if scouts forecast Ingram as able to put on enough size to be NBA standard in the next 2-3 years, that is a big question mark answered, and the prospect of seeing his skills on a bigger frame to compete more inside to go with his length and smooth stroke probably makes him a top 2 lock, even if his numbers were poor in key areas in the last couple of months.

[Saberestar]

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Deyonta-Davis-NBA-Draft-Scouting-Report-and-Video-Breakdown-5467

Not a fan of this player, but he can be an option at #13.