The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 - Off the Cliff we go

Braggins · Post #281 » by **Braggins** » Wed May 4, 2016 1:51 pm

Too bad there isnt a most improved coach award. My opinion of Cliff is similar to Vanderbilt_grads, but I'm still very happy with his progress from last season.

TinmanZBoy · Post #282 » by **TinmanZBoy** » Wed May 4, 2016 2:10 pm

-Q: You’ve gotten minutes for almost everybody on your bench. How much of your philosophy with playing so many guys comes from the kind of player you were in the playoffs?

-KERR: Yeah, I think my philosophy is shaped partly by being a role player myself all those years. There were times in my career when I was 9 through 12 when I didn’t feel like I was much a part of things. And it was great when I was thrown out there, even if it was just for a couple minutes.

I think it’s also shaped by my experience under Phil Jackson and Pop. Both coaches have shown over the years that they will play a lot of people–they’re not afraid to.

Phil especially when I was in Chicago would come out with some lineups that would sort of surprise even the team in big games. And what struck me observing this was the power that comes from the investment, the players knowing that they are important, all of them.

Pop has been great about that. I think over the years they play a lot of people in San Antonio. It does create I think a sense of, for lack of a better phrase, strength in numbers… patented pending… but there is some truth to that.

When people play, when they know they’re not just buried at the end of the bench, it strengthens kind of the core of the team, the fiber of the team.

I agree, Clifford might learn some from Kerr, Phil, Pop in terms of playing more guys

Appwrangler · Post #283 » by **Appwrangler** » Wed May 4, 2016 3:00 pm

SWedd523 wrote:
Appwrangler wrote:Box score checking tonight and I noticed the Warriors played 11. Not a fan of Clifford's strategy of limiting the number in the playoffs apparently.

On average, Cliff played 10 guys a night during the series and 14 total guys saw floor time. 9 guys averaged at least 10 minutes per night and only 2 guys (Kemba, Lee) played more than 32 minutes per game. Really difficult for me to see complaints about playing time and guys seeing the floor

Not sure if you are directing your comment at me but I don't have any complaints about playing time or guys seeing the floor. Just think it's interesting to compare Clifford's philosophy, which made total sense when i heard him say it, with Kerr's philosophy,which is helping GSW win.

Last night Festus played 10 minutes that were huge minutes for turning the momentum and fits with Kerr's approach as quoted by TinmanZboy.

Clifford exit Interview Part 3 at 6:30: http://www.nba.com/hornets/video/teams/hornets/2016/05/02/1462212854154-160502-coachexit-002.m4v-491620

"Playing 9 guys versus 10 guys is night and day. If you play 9 guys, everybody can get enough minutes to play well. Two years ago we couldn't do that, we played 10 guys. When you are playing 14 minutes a night, it's hard."

Edit: Thought of one more thing, CHA saw 14 guys play, but that was because of garbage time. GSW has all those guys play for real, when the minutes matter. Just cuz GSW does it doesn't make it right mind you, but an interesting contrast.

TinmanZBoy · Post #284 » by **TinmanZBoy** » Wed May 4, 2016 3:11 pm

if you listen to coach clifford interviews, you know the guy is such a good coach, a fantastic teacher and communicator, a NBA lifer... however, I just feel there is something lacking for him to be in the level of winning big... I am not sure what it is, maybe his stubbornness, lack of creativity on offense, or the feel of the game overall... but he is very smart, an earnest learner, I hope he can get there some day... well... of course nobody knows if he will ever have a Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan... Superstars make coaching a lot easier... overall, i think you guys are lucky to have coach clifford, he is easily a Top 10 coach in the NBA...

Flip Murray · Post #285 » by **Flip Murray** » Wed May 4, 2016 9:38 pm

"we lacked physicality" - there it is right there. That's what killed us in games 6 and 7

TinmanZBoy · Post #286 » by **TinmanZBoy** » Wed May 4, 2016 9:43 pm

Flip Murray wrote:"we lacked physicality" - there it is right there. That's what killed us in games 6 and 7

Spencer was probably Hornets' most physical guy at the end...that says a lot about the physicality of the team, should probably have burned Psycho T some minutes :banghead:

Flip Murray · Post #287 » by **Flip Murray** » Wed May 4, 2016 9:45 pm

TinmanZBoy wrote:
Flip Murray wrote:"we lacked physicality" - there it is right there. That's what killed us in games 6 and 7

Spencer was probably Hornets' most physical guy at the end...that says a lot about the physicality of the team, should probably have burned Psycho T some minutes

Yeah but I do like how he said we don't need to make a kneejerk reaction to go out and get a big 4 - changing to 3 out 2 in. He thinks we can improve our physicality internally

euphorbus · Post #288 » by **euphorbus** » Thu May 5, 2016 2:11 am

TinmanZBoy wrote:
Flip Murray wrote:"we lacked physicality" - there it is right there. That's what killed us in games 6 and 7

Spencer was probably Hornets' most physical guy at the end...that says a lot about the physicality of the team, should probably have burned Psycho T some minutes

Like most NBA coaches--not Popovich and Carlisle--he is a bit of a hypocrite. He also tends to think like a high school coach sometimes, with blinders on.

Flip Murray · Post #289 » by **Flip Murray** » Thu May 5, 2016 2:13 am

euphorbus wrote:
TinmanZBoy wrote:
Flip Murray wrote:"we lacked physicality" - there it is right there. That's what killed us in games 6 and 7

Spencer was probably Hornets' most physical guy at the end...that says a lot about the physicality of the team, should probably have burned Psycho T some minutes

Like most NBA coaches--not Popovich and Carlisle--he is a bit of a hypocrite. He also tends to think like a high school coach sometimes, with blinders on.

Is this a criticism because he didn't play Hansbrough?

2k15 · Post #290 » by **2k15** » Thu May 5, 2016 2:15 am

euphorbus wrote:
TinmanZBoy wrote:
Flip Murray wrote:"we lacked physicality" - there it is right there. That's what killed us in games 6 and 7

Spencer was probably Hornets' most physical guy at the end...that says a lot about the physicality of the team, should probably have burned Psycho T some minutes

Like most NBA coaches--not Popovich and Carlisle--he is a bit of a hypocrite. He also tends to think like a high school coach sometimes, with blinders on.

yeah...he said he gotta coach guys to play with more physicality...why don't you always do that...why did it take a series to say, hey i need to get guys to play with more physicality

catch20two · Post #291 » by **catch20two** » Thu May 5, 2016 2:18 am

antique0o0 wrote:Going bigger wasn't the reason Hornets win G3-5, and Clifford never realized that.

What was the reason we won G3-5?

euphorbus · Post #292 » by **euphorbus** » Thu May 5, 2016 3:48 am

Flip Murray wrote:
euphorbus wrote:Is this a criticism because he didn't play Hansbrough?

Daniels, Lamb, Hansbrough, and Hawes, until he got hurt again. If you are losing, you try everything you have, especially when you are giving heavy minutes to at least three guys that are hurt, namely Batum, Williams, and Lin, and probably Zeller, as well. He also gave heavy minutes to one rookie, Kaminsky, who was way out of his depth. He had about half as many rebounds per 36 minutes as Jefferson, Zeller, and Hawes, while the team as a whole was getting out-rebounded; in games six and seven, at a 2-1 rate. The thing is, until you see who shines and who fades under the bright lights, you really do not know your team, as Coach Clifford claimed to do.

Someone posted an extended quote from Steve Kerr that sums up the way he treats even the guys on his deep bench with respect, gives them minutes in the regular season and playoffs, and how that helps the team as a whole. Steve Clifford would never do that.

But it goes beyond that to his rant on "adjustments," as if the guys that follow and write about the NBA every day, including Tom Haberstroh, are know-nothings. And it goes to the way he ran Walker and Batum into the ground after the all-star break, with predictable results--one of them got hurt. I wrote about that strong possibility for weeks ahead of the playoffs. As I said, he thinks small sometimes, with blinders on.

antique0o0 · Post #293 » by **antique0o0** » Thu May 5, 2016 7:41 am

catch20two wrote:
antique0o0 wrote:Going bigger wasn't the reason Hornets win G3-5, and Clifford never realized that.

What was the reason we won G3-5?

IMO, faster pace and not disregarding mismatches.
Going bigger was supposed to get Hornets more rebounds. However, it didn't help at all.

However, I don't really thought that was starting lineup going bigger, more of second unit going smaller and faster. Starting lineup has always been digging holes the whole series.

rallydurham · Post #294 » by **rallydurham** » Fri May 6, 2016 10:45 am

With the injuries to zeller, hawes, and batum... and apparently the injury to marvin (not sure if that was just a coverup) we really didn't have many possible adjustments we could make.

I mean we could have tried to use lamb instead of batum but then you risk angering him ahead of free agency which is risky.

Clifford is widely regarded as one of the best in the league and i think that's pretty inarguable. I think any non homer fan is still pretty much in shock that we won 48 games without mkg.

Braggins · Post #295 » by **Braggins** » Tue May 10, 2016 12:06 am

I give Clifford a B+/A- for his regular season coaching this year and a D+/C- for the playoffs. I wont complain too much about the Miami series since it was his second post season (first where he had any chance) and he was facing a championship coach with tons of post-season experience.

qiantom · Post #296 » by **qiantom** » Tue May 10, 2016 1:56 am

So by the 1st round of playoffs, MKG was injured and could not play, Batum was seriously injured and missed games, Kemba/Marvin/Cody were all noticeably limited by injuries although some were revealed later. That's basically the whole projected starting lineup for next year. I don't know what caused the injuries but Clifford has to manage with the potential injuries in mind. We cannot get into the playoffs with everybody injured.

Eoghan · Post #297 » by **Eoghan** » Tue May 10, 2016 2:14 am

I give Clifford an A+. He took his postseason winning percentage from 0 to .273 this year. That's big time.

Braggins · Post #298 » by **Braggins** » Thu May 12, 2016 4:52 am

The big question with Clifford for me is what happens if we go into next season with a roster that isn't completely tailor made for his coaching style?

catch20two · Post #299 » by **catch20two** » Thu May 12, 2016 4:54 am

Braggins wrote:The big question with Clifford for me is what happens if we go into next season with a roster that isn't completely tailor made for his coaching style?

He'll convince Cho to bring in some deadweight that we'll think is just end of the bench fodder only to be surprised that they are actually in the rotation when the season start (i.e. Maxiell).

catch20two · Post #300 » by **catch20two** » Thu May 12, 2016 4:59 am

The conspiracy theorist in me also feel like Clifford only played Hairston in front of Lamb just to slight Cho for signing him to that extension without his total consent. It just never made sense to me no matter how anyone tried to explain it. Hairston was a death anchor to our team and it's no coincidence we finally started thriving at 2 specific points in the season that spelled "no more Hairston", that's when MKG returned and when we traded Hairston for Lee.