Orlando Magic Free Agency Guide (Cap Info UPDATED page 37)

[BadMofoPimp]

Then if Henny Crash and burns again in 2017 Free Agency, we can start talking about 2018, then 2019 and then 2020!

Hey, you're the one preaching patience on Gordon and Hezonja...

How convenient is it to tell us that we should chill out because they will hit their prime in 3 years AND at the same time tell us that WE NEED TO HIT IN FA NOW!

Just for your consistency sakes, maybe we should wait 3 years from now when Gordon and Hezonja are in their prime to strike in FA.

I was stating satyr over everyone else. I wouldn't mind this team staying and developing the way it is and just resigning Jason Smith and another vet or two.

[ezzzp]

Which is why I have said that a S&T of Fournier for draft picks is fine by me. I'd do it for a mid 1st this year. BOS would probably jump at that chance with how many they have.

A starting caliber player who just had a break out year for a mid 1st?! Yikes, thank god you aren't RH

Would you consider that less or more than what we got for Tobias Harris?

Neither, Harris was traded for the cap space that gave RH the opportunity to lure two max free agents. Absolutely no human knows what the return on that trade is yet.

[Skin]

Ai yai yai! If you ever learn how to read at a basic elementary school level you would see that the statement says "at a certain point RH was interested."

...and btw Fournier is not a SF and is a free agent
...and Harkless and Harris were moved because RH did not think they were the answer at SF, I agree
...and Mario Hezonja has shown nothing to earn the starting SF role. He might in a year or two, but that is not now and there is no guarantee he ever will.

C'mon now, you wanted to suggest that Henny could still be interested in Barnes. Don't back track now.

Uh, no I didn't. Magicfan101 asked the board about Barnes; I replied to him with a description post of Barnes I had posted a few months ago. I left Bucher's tweet in because it showed that Rob Hennigan at a certain point was interested in him. As in, at one point in his stint as Magic GM Rob Hennigan had an interest in Harrison Barnes.

You would think that after commenting on my earlier post, one in which I detailed who I wanted RH to pursue in FA - which did not include Harrison Barnes anywhere, that you would be able to put two and two together.

This is hilarious. I've never seen anyone agree on a point with more difficulty.

I guess we both agree Barnes would be a bad target. ...but feel free to go on talking him up again.

[Skin]

A starting caliber player who just had a break out year for a mid 1st?! Yikes, thank god you aren't RH

Would you consider that less or more than what we got for Tobias Harris?

Neither, Harris was traded for the cap space that gave RH the opportunity to lure two max free agents. Absolutely no human knows what the return on that trade is yet.

We could've had that cap space by letting Harris walk. If cap space is something you value, do you let Fournier walk?

[Bensational]

You can't match and trade a restricted free agent.



The Magic would have to work out a S&T without matching which means the trading team has all leverage, and why S&T on RFA never return value.

That's not what I suggested. I understand that if we match, he's ours. Done deal. All we can do is trade later him like we did with Tobias.

But we can do a S&T. If someone wants Fournier and they want to prevent us from matching, then they will have to come up with an offer that is enticing enough.

When Ryno was a RFA, we did a S&T... but we didn't get a lot back because we didn't want to match the offer. If we did want to match, then NOR would've had to pony up more in order to get him.

That would entail the Magic take on salary...so not only do the contracts have to match, the offer to the Magic would have to something the team actually wanted...what do you think are the chances of both those criteria to be met? Almost never, which is why rarely are there S&T for RFA's. Don't take my word for it, go back and look for a RFA S&T deal...you'll see that its rare and when it does happen its a Ryan Anderson for Gustavo Ayon and cap space type deal.

Why do the Magic have to take on salary? I'm not to clear on the new S&T rules, but the team trying to sign him will have to be under the cap, so we don't need to take salary back for matching purposes.

We could at least get a 1st round pick out of it.

[ezzzp]

C'mon now, you wanted to suggest that Henny could still be interested in Barnes. Don't back track now.

Uh, no I didn't. Magicfan101 asked the board about Barnes; I replied to him with a description post of Barnes I had posted a few months ago. I left Bucher's tweet in because it showed that Rob Hennigan at a certain point was interested in him. As in, at one point in his stint as Magic GM Rob Hennigan had an interest in Harrison Barnes.

You would think that after commenting on my earlier post, one in which I detailed who I wanted RH to pursue in FA - which did not include Harrison Barnes anywhere, that you would be able to put two and two together.

This is hilarious. I've never seen anyone agree on a point with more difficulty.

I guess we both agree Barnes would be a bad target. ...but feel free to go on talking him up again.

wow! did you even read the linked quotes? None of them are very flattering and point to his weaknesses...but feel free to keep spouting foolishness

[Bensational]

Ai yai yai! If you ever learn how to read at a basic elementary school level you would see that the statement says "at a certain point RH was interested."

...and btw Fournier is not a SF and is a free agent
...and Harkless and Harris were moved because RH did not think they were the answer at SF, I agree
...and Mario Hezonja has shown nothing to earn the starting SF role. He might in a year or two, but that is not now and there is no guarantee he ever will.

C'mon now, you wanted to suggest that Henny could still be interested in Barnes. Don't back track now.

Uh, no I didn't. Magicfan101 asked the board about Barnes; I replied to him with a description post of Barnes I had posted a few months ago. I left Bucher's tweet in because it showed that Rob Hennigan at a certain point was interested in him. As in, at one point in his stint as Magic GM Rob Hennigan had an interest in Harrison Barnes.

...did you even read the quotes I posted? none of them are particularly flattering and point out his weaknesses...

You would think that after commenting on my earlier post, one in which I detailed who I wanted RH to pursue in FA - which did not include Harrison Barnes anywhere, that you would be able to put two and two together.

What is the point of mentioning he was previously interested, if not to imply that the interest may still be there? And please keep it civil. I can read "at an elementary level", and even I interpret that as suggestive that Rob sees value in him.

Skin, please refrain from colour commentary like "Ai yai yai", as it's just going to provoke more snippy comments from both sides, and it would be a waste of an otherwise entertaining discussion.

[Bensational]

Guys, quit with the antagonistic "lols" and comments about "spouting foolishness". It's ruining a perfectly good discussion, and it's in violation of board rule #2.

[ezzzp]

Would you consider that less or more than what we got for Tobias Harris?

Neither, Harris was traded for the cap space that gave RH the opportunity to lure two max free agents. Absolutely no human knows what the return on that trade is yet.

We could've had that cap space by letting Harris walk. If cap space is something you value, do you let Fournier walk?

Last offseason was NOT this upcoming offseason with the same cap scenario or cap inflation conditions...The Magic could not go after two free agents and with the space they did have the went after Milsap.

[Skin]

C'mon now, you wanted to suggest that Henny could still be interested in Barnes. Don't back track now.

Uh, no I didn't. Magicfan101 asked the board about Barnes; I replied to him with a description post of Barnes I had posted a few months ago. I left Bucher's tweet in because it showed that Rob Hennigan at a certain point was interested in him. As in, at one point in his stint as Magic GM Rob Hennigan had an interest in Harrison Barnes.

...did you even read the quotes I posted? none of them are particularly flattering and point out his weaknesses...

You would think that after commenting on my earlier post, one in which I detailed who I wanted RH to pursue in FA - which did not include Harrison Barnes anywhere, that you would be able to put two and two together.

What is the point of mentioning he was previously interested, if not to imply that the interest may still be there? And please keep it civil. I can read "at an elementary level", and even I interpret that as suggestive that Rob sees value in him.

Skin, please refrain from colour commentary like "Ai yai yai", as it's just going to provoke more snippy comments from both sides, and it would be a waste of an otherwise entertaining discussion.

Can't believe Ai yai yai" set him off. lmao. jk

It's all good. I gotta head out. I'll catch up later to see where this went. Peace my Magic brothers!

[ezzzp]

C'mon now, you wanted to suggest that Henny could still be interested in Barnes. Don't back track now.

Uh, no I didn't. Magicfan101 asked the board about Barnes; I replied to him with a description post of Barnes I had posted a few months ago. I left Bucher's tweet in because it showed that Rob Hennigan at a certain point was interested in him. As in, at one point in his stint as Magic GM Rob Hennigan had an interest in Harrison Barnes.

...did you even read the quotes I posted? none of them are particularly flattering and point out his weaknesses...

You would think that after commenting on my earlier post, one in which I detailed who I wanted RH to pursue in FA - which did not include Harrison Barnes anywhere, that you would be able to put two and two together.

What is the point of mentioning he was previously interested, if not to imply that the interest may still be there? And please keep it civil. I can read "at an elementary level", and even I interpret that as suggestive that Rob sees value in him.

Skin, please refrain from colour commentary like "Ai yai yai", as it's just going to provoke more snippy comments from both sides, and it would be a waste of an otherwise entertaining discussion.

Did you even read the linked quotes from the original post? The ones that are right before Bucher's tweet .

[ezzzp]

Uh, no I didn't. Magicfan101 asked the board about Barnes; I replied to him with a description post of Barnes I had posted a few months ago. I left Bucher's tweet in because it showed that Rob Hennigan at a certain point was interested in him. As in, at one point in his stint as Magic GM Rob Hennigan had an interest in Harrison Barnes.

...did you even read the quotes I posted? none of them are particularly flattering and point out his weaknesses...

You would think that after commenting on my earlier post, one in which I detailed who I wanted RH to pursue in FA - which did not include Harrison Barnes anywhere, that you would be able to put two and two together.

What is the point of mentioning he was previously interested, if not to imply that the interest may still be there? And please keep it civil. I can read "at an elementary level", and even I interpret that as suggestive that Rob sees value in him.

Skin, please refrain from colour commentary like "Ai yai yai", as it's just going to provoke more snippy comments from both sides, and it would be a waste of an otherwise entertaining discussion.

Can't believe Ai yai yai" set him off. lmao. jk

It's all good. I gotta head out. I'll catch up later to see where this went. Peace my Magic brothers!

Can't believe you have such hard trouble understanding basics...lmao. jk

[Bensational]

A starting caliber player who just had a break out year for a mid 1st?! Yikes, thank god you aren't RH

Would you consider that less or more than what we got for Tobias Harris?

Neither, Harris was traded for the cap space that gave RH the opportunity to lure two max free agents. Absolutely no human knows what the return on that trade is yet.

That same kind of speculation can be applied to a future 1st, too. No human knows if we'll draft the next Dray Green, Giannis, Gobert with that pick.

The alternative is we match Fournier and bring him off the bench, since he isn't a true SF and we already have Oladipo as a starter. Or we continue to play Fournier out of position.

Neither are particularly tidy options.

[ezzzp]

That's not what I suggested. I understand that if we match, he's ours. Done deal. All we can do is trade later him like we did with Tobias.

But we can do a S&T. If someone wants Fournier and they want to prevent us from matching, then they will have to come up with an offer that is enticing enough.

When Ryno was a RFA, we did a S&T... but we didn't get a lot back because we didn't want to match the offer. If we did want to match, then NOR would've had to pony up more in order to get him.

That would entail the Magic take on salary...so not only do the contracts have to match, the offer to the Magic would have to something the team actually wanted...what do you think are the chances of both those criteria to be met? Almost never, which is why rarely are there S&T for RFA's. Don't take my word for it, go back and look for a RFA S&T deal...you'll see that its rare and when it does happen its a Ryan Anderson for Gustavo Ayon and cap space type deal.

Why do the Magic have to take on salary? I'm not to clear on the new S&T rules, but the team trying to sign him will have to be under the cap, so we don't need to take salary back for matching purposes.

We could at least get a 1st round pick out of it.

The team signing has to have the cap space to sign him under the cap.

The context of this aspect of the conversation (what Skin proposed was to trade Fournier for a mid first rounder - citing Boston (who have 16 and 23). Which is an absolutely horrible trade: a 23 year old legit NBA starter, who just had a great season for a low end first round pick.

If its a top 7 pick then maybe you consider it...but with the Magic being one of the youngest teams in the NBA and seeking experience, that is the exact opposite of what RH has said he was going to do. The Magic need to get older, not younger...and certainly not gift another team a talented young starting caliber asset for a low end draft pick.

[ezzzp]

Would you consider that less or more than what we got for Tobias Harris?

Neither, Harris was traded for the cap space that gave RH the opportunity to lure two max free agents. Absolutely no human knows what the return on that trade is yet.

That same kind of speculation can be applied to a future 1st, too. No human knows if we'll draft the next Dray Green, Giannis, Gobert with that pick.

The alternative is we match Fournier and bring him off the bench, since he isn't a true SF and we already have Oladipo as a starter. Or we continue to play Fournier out of position.

Neither are particularly tidy options.

Well if you're going to speculate extreme and highly unlikely possibilities, then you can also say that Harris was traded for the opportunity to sign Durant and Whiteside. But the reality is that he Harris was traded for the ability to upgrade the talent and experience base of the roster, and that is not an extreme and unlikely scenario.

Are you saying it is better to trade a 23 year old proven starting caliber player player for a late first rounder because there is a "chance" that late 1st might turn out to be Green, Giannis or Gobert?

[Bensational]

That would entail the Magic take on salary...so not only do the contracts have to match, the offer to the Magic would have to something the team actually wanted...what do you think are the chances of both those criteria to be met? Almost never, which is why rarely are there S&T for RFA's. Don't take my word for it, go back and look for a RFA S&T deal...you'll see that its rare and when it does happen its a Ryan Anderson for Gustavo Ayon and cap space type deal.

Why do the Magic have to take on salary? I'm not to clear on the new S&T rules, but the team trying to sign him will have to be under the cap, so we don't need to take salary back for matching purposes.

We could at least get a 1st round pick out of it.

The team signing has to have the cap space to sign him under the cap.

The context of this aspect of the conversation (what Skin proposed was to trade Fournier for a mid first rounder - citing Boston (who have 16 and 23). Which is an absolutely horrible trade: a 23 year old legit NBA starter, who just had a great season for a low end first round pick.

If its a top 7 pick then maybe you consider it...but with the Magic being one of the youngest teams in the NBA and seeking experience, that is the exact opposite of what RH has said he was going to do. The Magic need to get older, not younger...and certainly not gift another team a talented young starting caliber asset for a low end draft pick.

No team is giving up a top 7 pick for Fournier, IMO.

Plus, a S&T deal would come after the draft, which would either mean trading for a known target, or trading for a future prospective draft pick.

Whilst I'm a big fan of Fournier, I also think that players of his caliber are relatively prolific in drafts from the mid 1st to the 2nd round, and I have all the faith in the world in Henny's scouting and drafting capabilities, so I think we'd replace Fournier's value no problems after a few years of development.

The only problem then is, as you say, losing veteran experience and how that impacts a playoff push.

[Bensational]

Neither, Harris was traded for the cap space that gave RH the opportunity to lure two max free agents. Absolutely no human knows what the return on that trade is yet.

That same kind of speculation can be applied to a future 1st, too. No human knows if we'll draft the next Dray Green, Giannis, Gobert with that pick.

The alternative is we match Fournier and bring him off the bench, since he isn't a true SF and we already have Oladipo as a starter. Or we continue to play Fournier out of position.

Neither are particularly tidy options.

Well if you're going to speculate extreme and highly unlikely possibilities, then you can also say that Harris was traded for the opportunity to sign Durant and Whiteside. But the reality is that he Harris was traded for the ability to upgrade the talent and experience base of the roster, and that is not an extreme and unlikely scenario.

Are you saying it is better to trade a 23 year old proven starting caliber player player for a late first rounder because there is a "chance" that late 1st might turn out to be Green, Giannis or Gobert?

Green, Giannis and Gobert are the extreme options. But the likes of Middleton, Carroll, Bazemore, Ezeli, Crowder, Teague, I.Thomas, etc have also come from mid 1st to 2nd picks. Those players are the same caliber as Fournier.

[ezzzp]

That same kind of speculation can be applied to a future 1st, too. No human knows if we'll draft the next Dray Green, Giannis, Gobert with that pick.

The alternative is we match Fournier and bring him off the bench, since he isn't a true SF and we already have Oladipo as a starter. Or we continue to play Fournier out of position.

Neither are particularly tidy options.

Well if you're going to speculate extreme and highly unlikely possibilities, then you can also say that Harris was traded for the opportunity to sign Durant and Whiteside. But the reality is that he Harris was traded for the ability to upgrade the talent and experience base of the roster, and that is not an extreme and unlikely scenario.

Are you saying it is better to trade a 23 year old proven starting caliber player player for a late first rounder because there is a "chance" that late 1st might turn out to be Green, Giannis or Gobert?

Green, Giannis and Gobert are the extreme options. But the likes of Middleton, Carroll, Bazemore, Ezeli, Crowder, Teague, I.Thomas, etc have also come from mid 1st to 2nd picks. Those players are the same caliber as Fournier.

Why do the Magic need more draft picks. They already have 3-4 first rounders and 5 second rounders in the next 3 years, on top of having one of the youngest rosters in the NBA.

Except for Middleton who took 2 years and Thomas; all those players took 3-4 years to develop into starters and to be key contributors. All those players got substantial raises when they hit their first free agency after their 3 or 4th season. Why would RH want to restart that process when he already has Fournier able to contribute?

Here is a comparison of those players contract year vs Fournier's:

Bazemore vs Fournier
*This past season - Bazemore's 4th, was the first time the 26 year old started or broke 1400 minutes.

Carroll vs Fournier
*Carroll didn't play over 800 minutes until his fourth year and didn't start until his 5th season (13-14) in the NBA .

Middleton vs Fournier
*Middleton had his first quality year at age 22.

Crowder vs Fournier
*Carroll had been a bench player (<20 mpg) for his first 3 seasons, this past season was his first as a starter.

Teague vs Fournier
*Teague didn't start until his 3d year

Thomas vs Fournier

Ezeli vs Fournier
* has not averaged more than 18mpg in his career - ever.

[Bensational]

Why do the Magic need more draft picks. They already have 3-4 first rounders and 5 second rounders in the next 3 years, on top of having the one of youngest rosters in the NBA.

Because draft picks are zero cost assets. It saves the team committing such a large amount of salary to Fournier now and limiting our chances of adding multiple FAs in the future.

Adding age and experience at the expense of being able to chase true stars (not to mention burying guys who migh develop into true stars) seems more like adding another obstacle rather than solving a problem.

[ezzzp]

Why do the Magic need more draft picks. They already have 3-4 first rounders and 5 second rounders in the next 3 years, on top of having the one of youngest rosters in the NBA.

Because draft picks are zero cost assets. It saves the team committing such a large amount of salary to Fournier now and limiting our chances of adding multiple FAs in the future.

Adding age and experience at the expense of being able to chase true stars (not to mention burying guys who migh develop into true stars) seems more like adding another obstacle rather than solving a problem.

Draft picks are not zero cost assets. All first round picks have cap holds and guaranteed salary.

Fournier is an asset that the Magic have spent a key asset to attain + time and labor to develop. No GM would give him away for a low draft pick, just as the asset matures.

Rob Hennigan exit interview

3:04

"one of the biggest, if not the biggest priority this summer is to bring Evan back and ensure he stays with us and we are confident we'll be able to do that.

...and I'm not alone in thinking the Magic need to add talent and experience this summer.

3:10

Reporter: If things shake out the way they do and the guys (free agents) that you want go elsewhere, do you feel confident that this group as currently constructed now can grow into that playoff team next year or do you feel like you have to add something this summer?

Rob Hennigan: We feel like we need to add experience to the team, and that's something that I've said throughout the season. Its something that as the season has played out we've been able to pinpoint the fact that we do need experience to help stabilize us, so part of our strategy as we move into the summer is to pinpoint plan A's and plan B's and certain contingencies but all within the vein of trying to bring more experience to the team because with the nucleus we have and a few added veteran pieces we'll be well positioned for the postseason.