Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1

[Travers]

^
I am more interested in the 24W-9L, that's quite impressive and it means more than anything else... it shows Lin is a very impactful player, the type that you ask more from him he will give you more...when he plays well, the team usually wins...
like JVG said about Lin: what Lin did was amazing and not easy, in this league a lot of guys can put up numbers when given opportunities, but not necessarily lead you to wins... Lin not only performed well individually, but also he gave you wins...

Seems should be 23W-10L. I believe his performance will get even better when he plays the floor general more regularly and better chemistry with the same core of teammates.

[bws94]

My biggest problem with Lin this season flat out is that he was not a very good shooter / scorer in the role we had for him. His ability to play with Kemba improves massively if he can be a respectable perimeter threat and finish better at the basket.

If he puts up 45% FG and 38% 3PT last season, that exponentially increases his value to this team and IMO would have meant he received more minutes. If I were Lin, I would stick with the Hornets for one more year and get those shot %'s up. If he's able to do that, IMO that will lead to much, much more lucrative contract offers and increase the scope of teams that would be interested in him.

Definitely, his bad shooting limited his game and production. It wouldn't be a bad idea for Lin to improve in his role but you have to think with his playoff showing, he's going to get some tempting offers. It's a tough choice for a player turning 28 before next season.

[Travers]

Well 40 is unrealistic he's a pg. Most starters are in that 32 range these days. He's not well suited as a full time pg due to his shooting and ballhandling limitations, but backup pg who can lead second units clearly have value.

I think it's unlikely he's back. I don't see lin going for a Brooklyn type irrelevant team. I think the best career move is to find a playoff atmosphere where he has a role. So that puts us in the mix for sure but we are just 1 of 8-10 teams that make sense. And since literally every team has cap room this season it means that every team is a legitimate option.

Not to mention almost every team is going to be interested in a guy who can play either guard spot and has played in a few different systems effectively.

Kemba is a high minutes guy and batum is a playmaker so lin has less value for us than he would on a lot of other teams who don't have those two in place.

I think Memphis, Dallas, New Orleans, Indiana all are likely suitors.

I actually think his best fit would be the Clippers.They need to replace Crawford and Rivers badly, but i think they'll blindly hold onto that terrible combo just because doc is an idiot.

There could be other openings too if a guy like Beal leaves washington or other similar moves.

I saw the cap is now projected another $3m to $95. There just isn't nearly enough talent available for all this cap space. General managers usually can't help themselves, there could be some really preposterous deals being signed out there

You still sound like someone who looks at scoreboards and didn't watch the games. Cho said Lin was a two-position player that helped us win a lot of games. I agree with that. And he was instrumental in the 3 playoffs wins.

As much as Batum is lauded, he's not the one in my mind that ended up being the clutch player that put it in another game in crucial times at games to make plays. It was Kemba...and Lin. You too much minimize Lin's impact, it's intangible, it goes beyond his ups and downs because his ups are very interesting ones.

Surprisingly, shooting percentage is very good indeed when playing as a more dominant role.

[TinmanZBoy]

My biggest problem with Lin this season flat out is that he was not a very good shooter / scorer in the role we had for him. His ability to play with Kemba improves massively if he can be a respectable perimeter threat and finish better at the basket.

If he puts up 45% FG and 38% 3PT last season, that exponentially increases his value to this team and IMO would have meant he received more minutes. If I were Lin, I would stick with the Hornets for one more year and get those shot %'s up. If he's able to do that, IMO that will lead to much, much more lucrative contract offers and increase the scope of teams that would be interested in him.

Definitely, his bad shooting limited his game and production. It wouldn't be a bad idea for Lin to improve in his role but you have to think with his playoff showing, he's going to get some tempting offers. It's a tough choice for a player turning 28 before next season.

If Lin shot well with above numbers, then Hornets has no chance to retain Lin...

[yosemiteben]

Lin shot 41% FG and 21% 3PT in the playoffs with 2.6 ast and 1.6 tos. He was huge in Games 3 and 4 and had a nice Game 5, but taken as a whole I'm not sure he really increased his value much in the playoffs.

He laid an absolute egg in a massive Game 6 - 1-8 from the field, 3 TOs to 1 ast, 5 PFs in 24 minutes. If he showed up like he did in Games 3 though 5 then we would still be alive in the playoffs.

[Travers]

Lin shot 41% FG and 21% 3PT in the playoffs with 2.6 ast and 1.6 tos. He was huge in Games 3 and 4 and had a nice Game 5, but taken as a whole I'm not sure he really increased his value much in the playoffs.

He laid an absolute egg in a massive Game 6 - 1-8 from the field, 3 TOs to 1 ast, 5 PFs in 24 minutes. If he showed up like he did in Games 3 though 5 then we would still be alive in the playoffs.

Thanks Batum.

[yosemiteben]

Batum only played 15 minutes that game and didn't play at all in the second half. He didn't make Lin pick up 5 fouls in 24 minutes, turn it over 3 times, or shoot 1 for 8 from the field. That was on Lin.

The fact that you would try to blame Batum for Lin disappointing is emblematic IMO of how some Lin fans refuse to acknowledge that perhaps Lin can improve and someone else isn't to blame for his performance.

[TinmanZBoy]

Lin shot 41% FG and 21% 3PT in the playoffs with 2.6 ast and 1.6 tos. He was huge in Games 3 and 4 and had a nice Game 5, but taken as a whole I'm not sure he really increased his value much in the playoffs.

lin's playoff performances definitely increased a lot of his values, it gave teams more confidence to sign him... He was huge in game 5 too, he consistently made plays to fend off heat's double teams....he played 35 minutes with a +6, then u look others who played more than 30 minutes, only Lee got a neutral 0, others were all net negative...
The Hornets offense was in a mud the whole playoff, you can't only see the numbers to evaluate players' impact...
game3, 4, 5, lin was arguably the best performer of Hornets, it is not a stretch, the media seemed to agree

I don't see Lin played a different level in regular season though, but his value should not be a BAE to begin with... if u went back the lin thread No.1, when u guys signed lin, you guys were talking about the signing was a steal even with a MLE.... Lin was an above MLE player, a fringe starter in this league, an very impactful player in any team he was in...

[Travers]

Batum only played 15 minutes that game and didn't play at all in the second half. He didn't make Lin pick up 5 fouls in 24 minutes, turn it over 3 times, or shoot 1 for 8 from the field. That was on Lin.

The fact that you would try to blame Batum for Lin disappointing is emblematic IMO of how some Lin fans refuse to acknowledge that perhaps Lin can improve and someone else isn't to blame for his performance.

I should say thanks Clifford. His insistence to play Batum lost Hornets the series. Game 6's 1st half defense with Batum on the court and 2nd half defense without Batum tells everything.

[qiantom]

It would be hard to find even one player that had 4 consecutive good games in the playoffs, maybe Lebron I suppose. You are not playing against scrubs. Game 6 was big but not really much bigger than other games. We would have been essentially eliminated earlier had we lost any of the three games we won.

Let's not blame any one single person for the loss of a game or the series. Lin was obviously one of the few players on the team that actually played well in the series and that's it.

[yosemiteben]

I don't see Lin played a different level in regular season though, but his value should not be a BAE to begin with... if u went back the lin thread No.1, when u guys signed lin, you guys were talking about the signing was a steal even with a MLE.... Lin was an above MLE player, a fringe starter in this league, an very impactful player in any team he was in...

I don't disagree, I just don't think that his playoff performance boosted his value above what was perceptible in the regular season.

[yosemiteben]

Let's not blame any one single person for the loss of a game or the series. Lin was obviously one of the few players on the team that actually played well in the series and that's it.

I agree and that wasn't my intent. My intent was only to provide a counter balance to the view that his playoff performance provided a major boost in his value.

[TinmanZBoy]

^
I am more interested in the 24W-9L, that's quite impressive and it means more than anything else... it shows Lin is a very impactful player, the type that you ask more from him he will give you more...when he plays well, the team usually wins...
like JVG said about Lin: what Lin did was amazing and not easy, in this league a lot of guys can put up numbers when given opportunities, but not necessarily lead you to wins... Lin not only performed well individually, but also he gave you wins...

Seems should be 23W-10L. I believe his performance will get even better when he plays the floor general more regularly and better chemistry with the same core of teammates.

when teams are short of players, particularly star players, others need to step up... Lin did exactly that... however it does not mean Lin is in a level that the team has to cater him on offense...so he has to find a way to be more effective when he plays with star players...
the same thing could be said to a lot ball dominant guards in this league, guys like Reggie Jackson, Goran Dragic etc...

[Travers]

Let's not blame any one single person for the loss of a game or the series. Lin was obviously one of the few players on the team that actually played well in the series and that's it.

I agree and that wasn't my intent. My intent was only to provide a counter balance to the view that his playoff performance provided a major boost in his value.

Being one of the best player in the series of course will boost the value.

[2k15]

Lin shot 41% FG and 21% 3PT in the playoffs with 2.6 ast and 1.6 tos. He was huge in Games 3 and 4 and had a nice Game 5, but taken as a whole I'm not sure he really increased his value much in the playoffs.

He laid an absolute egg in a massive Game 6 - 1-8 from the field, 3 TOs to 1 ast, 5 PFs in 24 minutes. If he showed up like he did in Games 3 though 5 then we would still be alive in the playoffs.

Game 6 stats look much worse than it really is. 3 TOs and 5 PFs are related (2 PF and 2 TO came from him trying to be aggressive and as a result picked up two charges - both of which were in the fourth quarter when things just are not happening for the good guys offensively). Before those two charges, he was shooting 0-7, 1 TO to 1 AST, 3 PF with 6 FTs. Not a good shooting night by any means but hardly the reason why Hornets lost game 6. Kemba missed 15 shots in game 3(4-19), 14 shots in game 5(4-18), and 13 shots in game 7 (3-16). Marvin Williams was also 0-7 for game 6.

Also, it's a bit fresh to blame Lin for the Hornets not being alive in the playoffs all things considered.

[Travers]

^
I am more interested in the 24W-9L, that's quite impressive and it means more than anything else... it shows Lin is a very impactful player, the type that you ask more from him he will give you more...when he plays well, the team usually wins...
like JVG said about Lin: what Lin did was amazing and not easy, in this league a lot of guys can put up numbers when given opportunities, but not necessarily lead you to wins... Lin not only performed well individually, but also he gave you wins...

Seems should be 23W-10L. I believe his performance will get even better when he plays the floor general more regularly and better chemistry with the same core of teammates.

when teams are short of players, particularly star players, others need to step up... Lin did exactly that... however it does not mean Lin is in a level that the team has to cater him on offense...so he has to find a way to be more effective when he plays with star players...
the same thing could be said to a lot ball dominant guards in this league, guys like Reggie Jackson, Goran Dragic etc...

I would say Lin's game is all about playing basketball the right way.

[yosemiteben]

So Lin fans aren't able to objectively say that Lin disappointed in Game 6?

Yes Kemba disappointed in his shooting in Games 3 and 5, but he also posted 12 assists and a total of 2 tos in those games, so he was still useful. We got very, very little from Lin in Game 6.

My only point in bringing it up is that, when assessing his value in the series, the last impression may prove to be an important one, and he did not provide a super favorable final impression.

[13th Man]

Lin fans are a wide bunch with hugely varying opinions, I don't think it's fair to lump any narrative to simply "Lin fans".

I'm a big Lin fan and I've made my stance clear that I wouldn't mind him staying in Charlotte to improve his shooting and poise before he takes on a starting role. I was also hugely disappointed by his performance in game 6 and attributed it to lack of poise and experience, but that's just my opinion and I don't expect other Lin fans to feel the same, we're all different.

[Travers]

So Lin fans aren't able to objectively say that Lin disappointed in Game 6?

Yes Kemba disappointed in his shooting in Games 3 and 5, but he also posted 12 assists and a total of 2 tos in those games, so he was still useful. We got very, very little from Lin in Game 6.

My only point in bringing it up is that, when assessing his value in the series, the last impression may prove to be an important one, and he did not provide a super favorable final impression.

Won't you feel funny to blame the loss on a bench player?
Would you blame Aaron Brooks when the Bulls lost a game?

[2k15]

So Lin fans aren't able to objectively say that Lin disappointed in Game 6?

Yes Kemba disappointed in his shooting in Games 3 and 5, but he also posted 12 assists and a total of 2 tos in those games, so he was still useful. We got very, very little from Lin in Game 6.

My only point in bringing it up is that, when assessing his value in the series, the last impression may prove to be an important one, and he did not provide a super favorable final impression.

If you read the Lin thread right after game 6, you would've known that I was his most vocal critic. But then I moved on because I know players have off-shooting nights. I don't bring it up again to confirm the narrative that Lin is a bad player because bad shooting nights happen to everyone.

If the expectation is that Lin should never have bad shooting nights, I am also ok with those superstar expectations because with great power comes great responsibility. Just don't call him bad and then rag on him for having off-nights. Just be consistent.