The Payton Situation

[MagicStarwipe]

Bought some Sour Patch Kids to watch tomorrow's game with in EP's honour. Hoping he has his 3rd big game of the season and shuts some people up.

[CraZyPraiZ]

Bought some Sour Patch Kids to watch tomorrow's game with in EP's honour. Hoping he has his 3rd big game of the season and shuts some people up.

I love EP and want him to succeed. He's a very exciting player. I just feel that we may need to go back to playing a more pg dominant offense where he is not forced to pass the ball just to get rid of it. I miss the backdoors to Dipo, alley oops and him breaking down the defense and finding Vooch. I'm also a Skiles fan but something has got to give.

[FloridaHoosier]

Bought some Sour Patch Kids to watch tomorrow's game with in EP's honour. Hoping he has his 3rd big game of the season and shuts some people up.

I love EP and want him to succeed. He's a very exciting player. I just feel that we may need to go back to playing a more pg dominant offense where he is not forced to pass the ball just to get rid of it. I miss the backdoors to Dipo, alley oops and him breaking down the defense and finding Vooch. I'm also a Skiles fan but something has got to give.

I agree that Skiles defense is helping the team, but the "offense" is hurting some of them. It's interesting that the Vets seem to be able to come off the bench and contribute most every game. Maybe with their experience they are more able to adapt. IDK, just want them to win and have fun too. When they're having fun, it's more fun to watch. Elf, Victor, Vuc, even Tobes, just look like they are stressed.

[Bensational]

BUMP.

I'm just bumping this up as an example of why it's sometimes better to entertain healthy discussion about topics, even if people don't feel there's anything to discuss.

Look at how dismissive a lot of posters were to begin the season. Now, a large contingency want to trade Elf and find a shooting PG.

I, personally, still stand by Elf and think he will be fine.

But let's keep this in mind when people bring up other contentious issues in the future. There's always room to discuss both sides and to find a healthy middle ground.

[seeingstars]

I love Elf. Hes my favorite guard on the team when hes firing on all cylinders

[Skin]

Is it realistic to believe Elfrid can become a significantly better shooter?

[MagicMadness]

I'm not completely sold on EP, but I like how he fits the traditional PG mold.

If he can continue to improve his shot (especially at the free throw line), I'll feel a lot better about him moving forward. Consistent 12ppg/7ast type stats on at least average shooting, along with the intangibles he brings on both sides of the ball, would make him really solid in my book.

[Orlwillbeback]

Is it realistic to believe Elfrid can become a significantly better shooter?

I think so.

It's important to realize that we had to literally start from scratch with him on his shot. He went that whole year using a new shooting form that was entirely new to him and expected to produce.

Anyone would have trouble.

[Bensational]

Is it realistic to believe Elfrid can become a significantly better shooter?

I think it's realistic to believe he's got more tricks up his sleeve that have yet to be fully realised. His floater, stop fakes, improving 3pt shot (even if it was mostly on open looks).

[tiderulz]

Is it realistic to believe Elfrid can become a significantly better shooter?

I think so.

It's important to realize that we had to literally start from scratch with him on his shot. He went that whole year using a new shooting form that was entirely new to him and expected to produce.

Anyone would have trouble.

my trouble isnt his shot, which i believe will get better. its that he doesnt seem to bring fire every night. That is an internal thing that he needs to do on his own. When he brings it, he is every bit the nba player we want and need.

[drsd]

Bought some Sour Patch Kids to watch tomorrow's game with in EP's honour. Hoping he has his 3rd big game of the season and shuts some people up.

This brought me back to my youth:

[Melvinlocker]

Shooting Analysis- Elfrid Payton


2015-16 (includes % improvements from last year)

2P- 45.1% (+1.6%)

0-3ft- 58.3% (+6.8%)

3-10ft- 38.1% (+0.5%)

10-16ft- 35.5% (+2.6%)

16-3Pft- 25.2% (-9.3%)

3P- 32.6% (+6.4%)

FT- 58.9% (+3.8%)


Quick Hitters:
-Shot 107 attempts from 16-3P range compared to 55 attempts last year.
-Saw an increase in 3P shot attempts from 42 last year to 92 this year.
-Saw dramatic increase from ranges 0-3 and 10-16 ft. with little change in overall shot attempts from those areas.
-Saw a dramatic % increase from 3-10 ft. range with a significant decrease in total attempts (58 less to be exact).
-Displayed minor improvement in FT%.

Summary
Elfrid improved in a number of areas this year. He is able to finish shots around the rim at a respectable rate and he showed a dramatic increase in virtually every shooting range. The one glaring omission is his shooting from 16-3P range. He nearly doubled his shot attempts from that area and saw a dramatic decrease in shooting percentage. Some may suggest that he quit shooting those shots altogether, but these are shots that a player with his skillset must hit. Tony Parker is the gold standard for this shot as he shot over 200 shots from this range at 45.5%.

Elfrid must also continue to improve his free-throw shooting and three point shooting. He made significant strides in each area this year, but he will need to continue that trend next year.

2017 Primary Goals
1. 35%+ shooting from 16-3P. No decrease in shot attempts.
2. Free-throw shooting needs to be 65%+ next year.
3. 3PT shooting needs to be north of 35% on over 100 attempts.

BONUS- Any improvement from other shooting ranges is gravy.

All of these goals are achievable if he puts in the necessary work.

[Catledge]

Back in preseason, I suggested that Elf was still a back-up quality player, and everybody hated me for it. I think this statement in particular holds up pretty well:

But if he is still well below .500 TS% while taking 10 shots a game, then that will remain a pretty big problem.

Results a season later: .478 TS% on exactly 10.0 FGA/Game.

I remain convinced that he is a back-up quality player until that stat changes. Achieving that is dependent on the expansion of his skill set (shooting and rim finishing), not simply a function of squishy intangibles like confidence or aggressiveness.

Now, he did finish at the rim a lot better in the last month or so, which I think is just as important as his jump shot. That makes me hopeful that he might be able to lead our offense next year, but I think he remains our weakest starter, making pg our greatest position of need with respect to free agency.

[Bensational]

Back in preseason, I suggested that Elf was still a back-up quality player, and everybody hated me for it. I think this statement in particular holds up pretty well:

But if he is still well below .500 TS% while taking 10 shots a game, then that will remain a pretty big problem.

Results a season later: .478 TS% on exactly 10.0 FGA/Game.

I remain convinced that he is a back-up quality player until that stat changes. Achieving that is dependent on the expansion of his skill set (shooting and rim finishing), not simply a function of squishy intangibles like confidence or aggressiveness.

Now, he did finish at the rim a lot better in the last month or so, which I think is just as important as his jump shot. That makes me hopeful that he might be able to lead our offense next year, but I think he remains our weakest starter, making pg our greatest position of need with respect to free agency.

I can't deny the concerns about him when it comes to his shooting, and that he doesn't always play with the same level of aggressiveness. So these are things that certainly need to be addressed.

If he's still our starting PG next season, (which is my hope), here's some of the factors I'll have in mind, and what I'm hoping to see:

- Shooting: He needs to show a big improvement in this area. Changing a shooting stroke is a big move and will take time for him to get 'good', but I want to see him at least get to average with it. He'll have had 2 summers to have worked on it by next year, so we'll either get a feel for how much work he's putting in to fix it, or if it's a permanently broken aspect of his game.

- Aggressiveness: I'm of the most likely divisive opinion that Elf's in game effort is impacted by the system, and those around him. Vuc just isn't a good fit with him, on either side of the court. Elf is a PnR guard, but Vuc doesn't roll as often as he should, or as well as others. Vuc's spacing might have been responsible for helping boost Elf's shooting at the rim, but I feel like Elf works better with Dedmon getting in the lane and up in the air for lobs. Those plays get Elf fired up. The pick n pop, or plays where Elf just makes a couple of dribbles and then hands off for an open jumper or 3 doesn't seem to be something that inspires him. (Just my personal observation - I can't back this up with numbers). Defensively, I think Vuc impacts our team more than we think. When he is locked in on defense, the others step it up. But Vuc is rarely locked in, and that has a trickle down effect. Guards stop chasing as hard on screens, and the perimeter help defense stops scrambling as hard as they can, and the bigs don't seem as active on help D and rotations, either. (Again, purely observational, no numbers to back it up).

- Defense: Elf and Skiles need to figure out a smarter way to get him going in defense. I think we can say at this point that he's a guard who doesn't like fighting through screens, and when he does, he lags on the chase into the paint. I don't have an answer for this one.