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The Clippers Should Not Keep Griffin or CP3.

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Re: The Clippers Should Not Keep Griffin or CP3. 

Post#141 » by OkcSinceSGA » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:33 am

LACtdom wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
LACtdom wrote:Trading CP will never make us a better team. Unless we traded him for Lebron because LBJ has the power to fire coaches which is what we need the most.


*Will not make us better now. CP3 will be 32 and is broken down every year in the playoffs, never has gotten a team past round 2 and you really wanna give him like 130 million over 4 or 5 years?


You can hardly blame CP for his shortcomings in the playoffs. I can't think of any superstar outside of curry who could carry this trash team as much as CP has. With CP on the court, compared to off the court, our offense goes from 30th to 1st so he clearly has a positive impact on our team. Has he made mistakes in the playoffs? Yes but so has everyone and if you expect 1 player to do EVERYTHING every game then of course he will come up short some nights. Not getting out of the 2nd round will never be a valid argument IMO.

I kind of want CP to be traded so then people like you will realise he wasn't the problem when we still can't get out of the 2nd round because we have a terrible coach / culture.

And to answer your question... Yes I would give CP a top 10 player, a max contract even at age 32 since he is in career form.


LMAO. CP3 has carried trash? He's actually had pretty stacked rosters in LAC outside of last year where the bench was atrocious. In 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2016 most people considered the team pretty talent stacked. Not just in the sense of having another legit superstar next to him, but also an all star caliber player in DJ, borderline star in Redick and good role guys. I didn't say CP3 didn't perform. I said he's not a smart investment in the FUTURE. Unless you have Steve Ballmer logic and pay a guy for what he did in the past, it's dumb. CP3 will be 32, is injured every single year come playoff time and hasn't been able to get it done here or in New Orleans with very talented rosters many years.
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Re: The Clippers Should Not Keep Griffin or CP3. 

Post#142 » by Roscoe Sheed » Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:34 am

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
LACtdom wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
*Will not make us better now. CP3 will be 32 and is broken down every year in the playoffs, never has gotten a team past round 2 and you really wanna give him like 130 million over 4 or 5 years?


You can hardly blame CP for his shortcomings in the playoffs. I can't think of any superstar outside of curry who could carry this trash team as much as CP has. With CP on the court, compared to off the court, our offense goes from 30th to 1st so he clearly has a positive impact on our team. Has he made mistakes in the playoffs? Yes but so has everyone and if you expect 1 player to do EVERYTHING every game then of course he will come up short some nights. Not getting out of the 2nd round will never be a valid argument IMO.

I kind of want CP to be traded so then people like you will realise he wasn't the problem when we still can't get out of the 2nd round because we have a terrible coach / culture.

And to answer your question... Yes I would give CP a top 10 player, a max contract even at age 32 since he is in career form.


LMAO. CP3 has carried trash? He's actually had pretty stacked rosters in LAC outside of last year where the bench was atrocious. In 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2016 most people considered the team pretty talent stacked. Not just in the sense of having another legit superstar next to him, but also an all star caliber player in DJ, borderline star in Redick and good role guys. I didn't say CP3 didn't perform. I said he's not a smart investment in the FUTURE. Unless you have Steve Ballmer logic and pay a guy for what he did in the past, it's dumb. CP3 will be 32, is injured every single year come playoff time and hasn't been able to get it done here or in New Orleans with very talented rosters many years.

What's the alternative though? Let him walk and be stuck with Austin Rivers as the starting point guard? I think they just need to sign him to an extension if he is willing and hope he ages well. He doesn't overly rely on athleticism and hopefully without a catastrophic injury he could be quite effective into his mid-30s.

I would consider a trade for Irving if Cleveland was interested just due to age alone, but Irving has his own history of injuries.
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Re: The Clippers Should Not Keep Griffin or CP3. 

Post#143 » by mattd13 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:04 pm

getting rid of any of the core 4 players at this point would be a terrible idea at this point. there are a lot of problems but that is not the one.
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Re: The Clippers Should Not Keep Griffin or CP3. 

Post#144 » by Roscoe Sheed » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:05 pm

mattd13 wrote:getting rid of any of the core 4 players at this point would be a terrible idea at this point. there are a lot of problems but that is not the one.

I agree. The only one I'm really concerned about is Blake. If this is a chronic injury perhaps Doc should see what he could get back for him so that we aren't down a power forward come playoff time next year. I really like Blake but I'm worried that this injury may continue to flare up
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Re: The Clippers Should Not Keep Griffin or CP3. 

Post#145 » by madmaxmedia » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:50 pm

g15 wrote:Blake Griffin and Chris Paul are not "irreplacable" players in the sense of having a Jordan/Pippen combo, but we also can't undersell the actual difficulty for teams in acquiring two players of that caliber in their primes at the same time. It's quite difficult, and just because Doc has been buthchering the building around them part doesn't mean we should let go of this opportunity so easily.

The only true fear is their opt out. Age wise this team still has at least another 3-4 years where CP/Blake with a decent enough supporting cast can get you 55+ wins, add a very good supporting cast, and that goes up. Then we look at the fact that anything can happen in a season in terms of injuries and matchups and such, and the window is far from closed.

Of course the team should explore trade options of all the main guys because maybe you can get a return for one guy that might compliment the team better and you change things up, but don't just knee jerk and go and trade all your best players.


This times 1,000.

I think Paul is the more likely to opt out, in that he may sacrifice money if he finds a better chance of winning elsewhere.

Improving the team so that they stay is easily the best way to improve the team, outside some lucky scenario like trading for a KD.
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Re: The Clippers Should Not Keep Griffin or CP3. 

Post#146 » by reggielewis » Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:18 pm

mtron929 wrote:I said this in the other thread.

Trade CP3 for Kyrie (Lebron will ok this)

Trade Griffin for Boston #3 pick (select Bender), Jay Crowder, and Evan Turner

New lineup

Irving/Rivers
Reddick/Turner
Crowder/Green
Bender/Moute
Jordan/Aldrich

As a Boston fan- we will charter a plane for Griffin with that deal. I love Crowder, so he'd be tough to lose but I'd be fine with Smart playing some 3. Soo yes - we'd do it. That maybe enough to convince another semi star to join.
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Re: The Clippers Should Not Keep Griffin or CP3. 

Post#147 » by LACtdom » Mon May 2, 2016 9:42 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:
LACtdom wrote:You can hardly blame CP for his shortcomings in the playoffs.

Yawn. Same old, same old, CP3 being shielded from the same scrutiny that all other superstars face, even though he has by far the worst resume of all of them.
I'm not shielding him. I'm saying that CP3 isn't the problem. Look at his stats, both individual and how he improves our team by just being on the court.
I can't think of any superstar outside of curry who could carry this trash team as much as CP has.

LeBron and Iverson single-handedly dragged teams to the Finals that were a lot worse than this one.

Are there better players than CP? yes but which ones can we realistically get? It seems much more feasible to keep CP3 and put him in a good system.
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Re: The Clippers Should Not Keep Griffin or CP3. 

Post#148 » by LACtdom » Mon May 2, 2016 9:45 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
LACtdom wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
*Will not make us better now. CP3 will be 32 and is broken down every year in the playoffs, never has gotten a team past round 2 and you really wanna give him like 130 million over 4 or 5 years?


You can hardly blame CP for his shortcomings in the playoffs. I can't think of any superstar outside of curry who could carry this trash team as much as CP has. With CP on the court, compared to off the court, our offense goes from 30th to 1st so he clearly has a positive impact on our team. Has he made mistakes in the playoffs? Yes but so has everyone and if you expect 1 player to do EVERYTHING every game then of course he will come up short some nights. Not getting out of the 2nd round will never be a valid argument IMO.

I kind of want CP to be traded so then people like you will realise he wasn't the problem when we still can't get out of the 2nd round because we have a terrible coach / culture.

And to answer your question... Yes I would give CP a top 10 player, a max contract even at age 32 since he is in career form.


LMAO. CP3 has carried trash? He's actually had pretty stacked rosters in LAC outside of last year where the bench was atrocious. In 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2016 most people considered the team pretty talent stacked. Not just in the sense of having another legit superstar next to him, but also an all star caliber player in DJ, borderline star in Redick and good role guys. I didn't say CP3 didn't perform. I said he's not a smart investment in the FUTURE. Unless you have Steve Ballmer logic and pay a guy for what he did in the past, it's dumb. CP3 will be 32, is injured every single year come playoff time and hasn't been able to get it done here or in New Orleans with very talented rosters many years.


Who do we invest in that will be better than CP3 (who is still in great form)? Have we had talented rosters? Yes of course we have but as we've all seen, most players struggle when coming to the clippers and end up being duds which shows how bad our system is or simply a poor fit.
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Re: The Clippers Should Not Keep Griffin or CP3. 

Post#149 » by og15 » Mon May 2, 2016 11:30 pm

LACtdom wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:
LACtdom wrote:You can hardly blame CP for his shortcomings in the playoffs.

Yawn. Same old, same old, CP3 being shielded from the same scrutiny that all other superstars face, even though he has by far the worst resume of all of them.
I'm not shielding him. I'm saying that CP3 isn't the problem. Look at his stats, both individual and how he improves our team by just being on the court.
I can't think of any superstar outside of curry who could carry this trash team as much as CP has.

LeBron and Iverson single-handedly dragged teams to the Finals that were a lot worse than this one.

Are there better players than CP? yes but which ones can we realistically get? It seems much more feasible to keep CP3 and put him in a good system.

Everyone can't have the top of the top talent, that's just the reality, but I'll take a top player who puts his all out there on the floor and doesn't care about people liking him or anything else, but plays all out for his team every night. That's who CP is and what he does. Now does that mean he should be shielded from being traded? No, but criticism for the sake of criticism while sticking one's head in the sand to reason is stupid. Also winning in the NBA to an extent also about luck and timing.

Iverson is an awful example, he got to the finals when the East was extremely weak and relative to competition in the East he had a stacked roster. Plug in Vince Carter to Philly instead of Iverson and he makes the finals, likely Ray Allen from that season too. It's not a knock on Iverson it's just the reality of the competition. There's a reason those Philly teams did not have continued success after the talent level rose in the East and there's a reason Iverson barely ever got out of the first round most seasons in his career.

You can see that the examples we have are all players in the Eastern Conference, that is not a coincidence. Lebron is a great player either way, but if he spent his career in the West without not just "good enough" teams, but very good teams, he would not have as much "winning success" as he currently does despite being the same caliber player.



ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
LACtdom wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
*Will not make us better now. CP3 will be 32 and is broken down every year in the playoffs, never has gotten a team past round 2 and you really wanna give him like 130 million over 4 or 5 years?


You can hardly blame CP for his shortcomings in the playoffs. I can't think of any superstar outside of curry who could carry this trash team as much as CP has. With CP on the court, compared to off the court, our offense goes from 30th to 1st so he clearly has a positive impact on our team. Has he made mistakes in the playoffs? Yes but so has everyone and if you expect 1 player to do EVERYTHING every game then of course he will come up short some nights. Not getting out of the 2nd round will never be a valid argument IMO.

I kind of want CP to be traded so then people like you will realise he wasn't the problem when we still can't get out of the 2nd round because we have a terrible coach / culture.

And to answer your question... Yes I would give CP a top 10 player, a max contract even at age 32 since he is in career form.


LMAO. CP3 has carried trash? He's actually had pretty stacked rosters in LAC outside of last year where the bench was atrocious. In 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2016 most people considered the team pretty talent stacked. Not just in the sense of having another legit superstar next to him, but also an all star caliber player in DJ, borderline star in Redick and good role guys. I didn't say CP3 didn't perform. I said he's not a smart investment in the FUTURE. Unless you have Steve Ballmer logic and pay a guy for what he did in the past, it's dumb. CP3 will be 32, is injured every single year come playoff time and hasn't been able to get it done here or in New Orleans with very talented rosters many years.

On the other hand, calling the Clippers roster "trash" is way off. The team has had a very solid roster, but a solid roster with holes. The holes are not holes that CP can fix, he's maximized what he can provide for the team. He's not going to anchor your defense, he's not going to control the glass, and if you're asking him to contain wings that are 7+ inches taller than him, then there's a problem. If you're asking more from a 6'0 PG than what CP has done the last 4 playoffs (35 games) as a Clipper, 22 / 4 / 9 /.605 TS%, directing the team well, taking on difficult matchups on defense and doing his best, then you have a flawed team. This is not 22 ppg / 60.5% TS playing scrub teams or poor defenses (outsideo of Portland), this was vs Memphis (2nd Drtg), Golden State (4th Drtg), OKC (6th Drtg), San Antonio (2nd Drtg), Houston (8th Drtg), Portland (20th Drtg).

We see every regular season, people will be claiming that PG's like Lowry and Lillard have "surpassed" Paul and are better, then we get to the playoffs against tougher defenses and schemes and these guys are nowhere close to his performance.

Trading Chris Paul, trading Blake Griffin, none of that is going to "solve" having a flawed team. Do you know what will solve having a flawed team? Making solid moves consistently year after year. Not getting past the second round is irrelevant, it really means absolutely nothing about the caliber of a player or whether they are "capable" of doing it. KG got out of the first round once, missed the playoffs a couple of times then goes to the finals. Kevin Love hadn't made the playoffs then he got to play with Lebron in the East and went to the finals, good for him. Guys like Lowry and DeRozan could get to the ECF this season, does that mean those two are a better duo than Paul/Blake as they shoot 32% FG / 17% 3PT (DeRozan) and 32% FG / 16% 3PT (Lowry) in the playoffs? Maybe it's their intangibles of iso ball and the most stagnant clock wasting offense that must be pushing them forward.

The NBA isn't played in a vacuum. If you have a "stacked" team and others have equally or more stacked teams, then your stacked team is not an advantage in comparison, so it doesn't matter. The Clippers over the whole span have had the weakest two way wings in West when compared to the other WC teams for the past 5 seasons, that's been a problem. The Clippers have consistently had poor backup big men, that's been a problem. The perceptions of stacked people have of the Clippers has always included "and you have 6th man of the year Jamal Crawford", and all of us know that this means nothing for winning in the post-season. In addition people don't care about defense when they consider a teams talent, even offensively they just think of PPG, not even whether guys are efficient offensive players. Until this season the Clippers have not had the consistent defensive acumen needed to give yourself the best chance in the post-season and the defensive struggles have never been because of Paul not pulling his weight on the defensive end.
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Re: The Clippers Should Not Keep Griffin or CP3. 

Post#150 » by cpower » Tue May 3, 2016 12:58 am

MartinToVaught wrote:I still don't understand this argument that we need to keep making tweaks to the supporting cast, as if it's as easy as snapping our fingers and making it happen. With what assets are we going to do that? We've thrown away far too many draft picks, and we have a bench full of players that no team would ever trade for. I don't think people outside of LA quite realize just how big a mess Glenn has made as the self-appointed dictator of this franchise. This argument would have made more sense before Glenn took over and started making panic move after panic move with rapidly diminishing returns.

The fact is, we have a core that clearly isn't good enough, and we lack the flexibility to make peripheral changes that move the needle. I'm not going to sit back and enjoy a second-round treadmill team just because previous owners and GMs in completely different eras were incompetent. By that logic, Raptors fans should be happy just making the playoffs for the rest of their existence because the post-Carter/pre-Lowry years were so bad.

It's not easy to get the proper supporting cast but there is always overlooked asset that makes bigger impact than his name. Guys like Crowder, Plumlee, Mahinmi, Adams, Anderson, Chalmers, Pachulia, Dudley, Zeller don't require a lot of assets to acquire. The problem is your GM only likes ppg and ignore any other aspects of the game.
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Re: The Clippers Should Not Keep Griffin or CP3. 

Post#151 » by QRich3 » Tue May 3, 2016 8:13 am

cpower wrote:It's not easy to get the proper supporting cast but there is always overlooked asset that makes bigger impact than his name. Guys like Crowder, Plumlee, Mahinmi, Adams, Anderson, Chalmers, Pachulia, Dudley, Zeller don't require a lot of assets to acquire. The problem is your GM only likes ppg and ignore any other aspects of the game.

lol what a spectacularly random list. No wonder people are so quick to criticise GM's when they live in that fantasy world where everything is possible.

Mahinmi and Anderson are gonna cost 8 figures a year, and Adams is apparently easy to acquire with little assets? you know he was a lottery pick that cost them Harden yeah? Zeller, Plumlee and Pachulia are not that good and I'd rather have Aldrich, who by the way, our 'ppg' GM found with the veteran minimum. Crowder was the unlikely find of the year, so if that's your standard, you're gonna be often disappointed with every GM. And lol at Chalmers as an example of guys that are more than PPG.
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Re: The Clippers Should Not Keep Griffin or CP3. 

Post#152 » by Sofia » Sat May 7, 2016 10:04 am

This thread is the worst.

I wanted to keep the core together next season, but now I hope they do it purely out of spite for some of the fans who just spend all their time complaining about the team.

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Re: The Clippers Should Not Keep Griffin or CP3. 

Post#153 » by kylem4711 » Sat May 7, 2016 2:43 pm

Blake and someone else for Durant and Steven Adams. Let's do it!

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