Karl Officially Out, Who's the best fit to replace him?

[City of Trees]

Ha unbelievable! Phil Jackson doing what only Phil Jackson could do.

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/05/05/phil-jackson-goes-on-vacation-reportedly-puts-knicks-coaching-search-on-hold/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[City of Trees]

This is where Vivek has to open that checkbook if he wants Vogel. To me, that's the only target there should be right now. He'd be like Mike Malone on steroids.

Is it even possible?

Well If he interviews then I'll put him on my one and only list right now, but I don't want to get my hopes up.

Well with Phil Jackson not conducting interviews, and Indy no longer an option, Vogel is choosing (if he doesnt want to take a year off) between Houston and Sacramento. Harden or Cousins. Vlade or Morey.

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[skywalker33]

This is where Vivek has to open that checkbook if he wants Vogel. To me, that's the only target there should be right now. He'd be like Mike Malone on steroids.

Is it even possible?

Well If he interviews then I'll put him on my one and only list right now, but I don't want to get my hopes up.

Well with Phil Jackson not conducting interviews, and Indy no longer an option, Vogel is choosing (if he doesnt want to take a year off) between Houston and Sacramento. Harden or Cousins. Vlade or Morey.

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Wow, a vacation is looking pretty good right about now ! Has Vogel even interviewed with SAC ??? McHale withdrawing makes me think he's gonna try and hit up his old pal Bird for a job.

[City of Trees]

Is it even possible?

Well If he interviews then I'll put him on my one and only list right now, but I don't want to get my hopes up.

Well with Phil Jackson not conducting interviews, and Indy no longer an option, Vogel is choosing (if he doesnt want to take a year off) between Houston and Sacramento. Harden or Cousins. Vlade or Morey.

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Wow, a vacation is looking pretty good right about now ! Has Vogel even interviewed with SAC ??? McHale withdrawing makes me think he's gonna try and hit up his old pal Bird for a job.

To my knowledge Vogel hasnt interviewed with any teams.

Bird came out today and said he will not consider McHale, since they are buds
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[City of Trees]

Found this post on the Knicks board... It sounds like Vogel is not a good fit for Sac If the insider is telling the truth here

some insight into why Vogel was let go by Bird

Larry Bird is looking for a new coach who will have the Pacers play small and carry a big stick.

On the first score, Indiana’s team president reiterated Thursday, when he announced Frank Vogel would not be returning as head coach, that Vogel’s offensive system just didn’t cut it in today’s NBA. Seeing the Pacers move up one place in offensive efficiency, from 24th last season to 23rd this season, when he was operating under an edict to move the offense into the 21st century, told Bird that he needed to make a change.

“I don’t know about losing the locker room — I wouldn’t go that far,’’ Bird said about Vogel, whose contract was not renewed after 5½ seasons as head coach. “I just came to the conclusion that it was necessary for these guys to hear a new voice.’’

Here’s what Bird didn’t say about the new voice, but what became crystal clear to the NBA legend and even some players as the Pacers lost in the first round to the Raptors after finishing seventh in the East: The new coach’s voice will need to have an edge and he has to hold the players responsible for their mistakes.

That’s the big stick part.

Vogel’s downfall, according to one NBA insider with knowledge of the team’s locker room dynamics, was that he always bent over backwards to be nice to his players and never demanded accountability when they messed up.

“Frank never wanted to hurt anyone’s feelings,’’ the person said. “But Larry knows, and some of the players also know, that there should be consequences to your actions when you do something wrong. When you take a bad shot or don’t do what’s expected of you, then there has to be a consequence. Like getting pulled out of the game. But with Frank there were never any consequences when you did something wrong. He never had those because he felt it would hurt guys’ confidence. He always was looking to keep guys happy.’’

Vogel got away with that style of coaching when he had David West controlling the locker room and the Pacers went to the Eastern Conference finals. But once West left for San Antonio and the Pacers revamped their roster, the lack of accountability was telling.

In the playoffs the 45-win Pacers had a chance to knock off a vulnerable 56-win Raptors team that was primed for another first-round exit, with Kyle Lowry and DeMar DeRozan underperforming again in the postseason. In fact, the Pacers had a golden chance to win Game 5 in Toronto and go up 3-2. They controlled the game through three quarters, as Paul George again showed he was the best player on the court, scoring 37 points in the first 36 minutes.

But then Vogel stuck too long with his reserves at the start of the fourth quarter, George scored only two points over the final 7:00 once he was re-inserted and the Pacers were done. Vogel never embraced Bird’s plans to play small and that’s when Bird knew he had to make a change that, he admitted Thursday, he had first thought about back at the All-Star break.

“I know it’s not 100 percent a popular move,’’ he said.

It won’t be because while Bird sees this roster as being better than it showed at the offensive end, he might just be over-rating his talent.

Then he talked about finding a new coach who can “keep ‘em mentally focused. I’ll be looking at someone who motivates and leads and gets the respect of the players.’’

Bird’s next coach needs to be able to get Monta Ellis to change, or he will have to reinstate George Hill as the primary playmaker after the veteran spent most of the season playing off the ball. Too many times in the regular season Vogel put up with Ellis controlling the ball deep into the shot clock, then passing off only because he couldn’t get his shot. That rubbed some the wrong way.

“Frank allowed Monta to walk all over him,’’ the NBA insider said.

In the players’ exit interviews earlier this week, Bird and general manager Kevin Pritchard basically told everyone that Vogel was out, without openly saying it. They told players that next season they want to play more up-tempo, score more, use fewer sets and play more like Golden State, with an emphasis on more ball movement and teamwork.

So who will get Ellis, and even George, who has sticky fingers at times, to play the Warrior way, while also carrying the big stick? It’s not going to be easy.

Nobody can coach speed ball better than Mike D’Antoni, the Sixers assistant who has a relationship with Donnie Walsh. The Pacers’ long-time executive hired D’Antoni to coach the Knicks in New York in 2010. But D’Antoni is well known for not holding anyone accountable.

Bird spoke highly of Mark Jackson, who started at point guard for the Pacers during their 2000 NBA Finals run with Bird as coach. “I think he did excellent job,” Bird said in a brief endorsement at the end of his news conference. “He helped Golden State get to where they’re at today.’’

Bird probably will look at Spurs assistant Ettore Messina, who was reported to be high on the Lakers’ list if Luke Walton had turned down their head coaching job. Messina has been a highly successful head coach overseas and has been mentioned for NBA head coaching positions in recent seasons. According to one Western Conference GM, “He’s got some hard-ass in him and he can teach an up-tempo offense. The only concern is how he’d relate to stars as a head coach.’’

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[KF10]

^^

Jeez if all of that is true -- cross Vogel off the list. Vogel is a good coach but I don't want my coach who lets his players run over him. Or is tactically limited on offense.

Messina, Blatt or Ewing for me.

[Jkam31]

^^

Jeez if all of that is true -- cross Vogel off the list. Vogel is a good coach but I don't want my coach who lets his players run over him. Or is tactically limited on offense.

Messina, Blatt or Ewing for me.

I'm still taking Vogel 1 Blatt 2


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[SacKingZZZ]

He let his players walk all over him. Well, it must have worked considering he took a team looking like it had serious lottery potential to the 7th seed in the playoff race and a 7th game in the first round.

I think it's still better to have someone that is more player friendly than a drill Sgt.

[KF10]

Hmm, on second thought, it was premature of me to discount Vogel -- given his quality and track record.

I have to remind myself that the Kings is probably one of the worst [if not, the worst] in retaining their coaches. That, and we are considered dysfunctional in almost every level of the Sacramento Kings. If we can lure a guy like Vogel, that would be a massive win for us, imo.

/backtrack

[City of Trees]

I wouldn't cross him off the list. Vogel is an excellent coach with a good track record. He'd be a great hire. What I meant was if Vogel is the guy who wants to make everyone happy then odds are he avoids an aggressive player like Cousins. Bad fit.

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[boomershadow]

I wouldn't cross him off the list. Vogel is an excellent coach with a good track record. He'd be a great hire. What I meant was if Vogel is the guy who wants to make everyone happy then odds are he avoids an aggressive player like Cousins. Bad fit.

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Since hearing the news of his firing,I have been entertaing the notion of seeing Vogel come here. When he took over in Indy 5 and a half years ago, we had a team with "some" talent, a losing mentality, and an environment the players didn't like playing in. He took over and put in a system that better fit our players, changed the culture into one of positivity and hard work, got the players to buy in immediately that we could start winning, and he did a lot to develop young talent.

He is one hundred and ten percent supportive of his players and getting them to believe they can reach their potential. That doesn't mean he lets them walk all over him. We dealt successfully with a few bad apples over the years, and a few we didn't. But look at Indy Lance Stephenson compared to what he did after leaving.

He is defense-first, and prefers his low efficiency half court offense. That would really work for a team with Cousins and WCS. His work getting Hibbert and Mahinmi and Turner to be the rim protecting juggernaughts they were is definitely a skill that would work well in Sacramento. And above all, the term the Raptors commentators couldn't stop using about our team this playoffs was "disciplined."

[SacKingZZZ]

Hmm, on second thought, it was premature of me to discount Vogel -- given his quality and track record.

I have to remind myself that the Kings is probably one of the worst [if not, the worst] in retaining their coaches. That, and we are considered dysfunctional in almost every level of the Sacramento Kings. If we can lure a guy like Vogel, that would be a massive win for us, imo.

/backtrack

I was actually kidding a little bit, ha ha, because I do think there is some validity to the idea of a coach letting players walk all over him, if that's the case, isn't a great thing with some of the talent on the roster. Especially if Rondo is back. Rondo taking over even more than last year could be a bad thing. I do think the coach needs to be flexible though.

[SacKingZZZ]

I wouldn't cross him off the list. Vogel is an excellent coach with a good track record. He'd be a great hire. What I meant was if Vogel is the guy who wants to make everyone happy then odds are he avoids an aggressive player like Cousins. Bad fit.

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Since hearing the news of his firing,I have been entertaing the notion of seeing Vogel come here. When he took over in Indy 5 and a half years ago, we had a team with "some" talent, a losing mentality, and an environment the players didn't like playing in. He took over and put in a system that better fit our players, changed the culture into one of positivity and hard work, got the players to buy in immediately that we could start winning, and he did a lot to develop young talent.

He is one hundred and ten percent supportive of his players and getting them to believe they can reach their potential. That doesn't mean he lets them walk all over him. We dealt successfully with a few bad apples over the years, and a few we didn't. But look at Indy Lance Stephenson compared to what he did after leaving.

He is defense-first, and prefers his low efficiency half court offense. That would really work for a team with Cousins and WCS. His work getting Hibbert and Mahinmi and Turner to be the rim protecting juggernaughts they were is definitely a skill that would work well in Sacramento. And above all, the term the Raptors commentators couldn't stop using about our team this playoffs was "disciplined."

Thanks for the input. I think he could be a great fit personally. I'm not sure he would choose the Kings over the Rockets but I think there is more potential with the Kings roster moving forward than the Rox when compared to his coaching style.

[KF10]

I was actually kidding a little bit, ha ha, because I do think there is some validity to the idea of a coach letting players walk all over him, if that's the case, isn't a great thing with some of the talent on the roster. Especially if Rondo is back. Rondo taking over even more than last year could be a bad thing. I do think the coach needs to be flexible though.

Even if you were kidding around, for some silly reason, I forgot that the Sacramento Kings isn't the most desirable destination for potential coaches (& FAs) unless we overspend and give more than we should. Like I said before, if we manage to lure Vogel in -- we give what he wants i.e. $$$ & control. I would be fine with it. We really don't want a retread and a coach that will be recycled into the NBA's waste bin 1 year from now again. We need to nail this thing down, imo.

[blind prophet]

I'm wondering how long this will continue.

I thought my early estimate of 2-3 weeks was about right, figuring Vlade would interview lots of people.

Now I'm not sure what to think.

I guess as long as he makes the correct call, but been having some of the awkward silence like in the Petrie days.

[KF10]

Well, the Knicks have reached out to Vogel already:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/241821/Knicks-Reach-Out-To-Frank-Vogel

[nolimit0820]

Joerger is out of Memphis. "Sources" saying he's our number one candidate and that he asked for permission to speak with us and the rockets. He inheritered a borderline contender and did quite well. He could be a strong fit for us with his grind it out mentality. He seems like a no nonsense coach. He could do a lot with this roster.

As much as I'm all for Messina or Borrego because I'm a fan of anybody under Coach Pop...I believe Joerger would be a tremendous fit for our organization

Thoughts?

[City of Trees]

Lmao Kings are about to have Joerger fall into their lap.

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[City of Trees]

So, umm, can Conley join Joerger pretty please?

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[RIPskaterdude]

Joerger is a great coach, but don't rush it. Interview him and make sure he's the best person for the job, then if he is, move quickly to sign him. Don't just throw him a contract before talking to him.