Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1

[steady]

I posted this in Offseason thread but in case folks aren't visiting that thread as much, Im reposting here

Yeah, it is going to be hard to re-sign Lin for cap reasons due to his non-Bird status. I am not sure the Hornets need Al back to be honest. I do worry that Frank and Cody can't really bang with other bigs and so you may try to bring in a more physical big here with that leftover money. The question then becomes what is a bigger hole, our problems at 4/5 or at 1? That in part depends on the draft I suppose - if we can pick up another big body (as we are projected to do), we might feel ok with committing a ton of $$ to Lin.

Hornets will probably also be fielding sign and trade offers for Courtney Lee because they have his Full Bird Rights, so that might be another source of 4/5 or 1. It's going to be fascinating off season -

[tonman]

The problem folks fail to acknowledge is that Lin is a facilitator. Now you are going to bring in a backup point or shooting guard and hope they are good facilitators. I'm not talking about passing the ball around the perimeter or running a play. I'm talking fast break and broken plays and pnr.

[2k15]

Hornets will probably also be fielding sign and trade offers for Cournet Lee because they have his Full Bird Rights, so that might be another source of 4/5 or 1. It's going to be fascinating off season -

Man, I wish there is a way to keep Lee too. And just add a big through the draft and let Frank/Cody/Hawes do what they do.

[steady]

The problem folks fail to acknowledge is that Lin is a facilitator. Now you are going to bring in a backup point or shooting guard and hope they are good facilitators. I'm not talking about passing the ball around the perimeter or running a play. I'm talking fast break and broken plays and pnr.

Yes and in addition to his playmaking (especially in transition), I think Lin's calling cards now include his big game play, and his defense. Plus what has always been his strength - his very quick first step, ability to get into the paint, and finish at basket.

--

Below is interesting tid bit I came across about Lin's beginnings as a Knick. Have a great weekend everyone -

One of the more turbulent aspects of Jeremy Lin’s storied run with the New York Knicks was his relationship with star player Carmelo Anthony. Both sides have claimed there were no issues, but those other than Anthony and Lin have told a different story.

That includes Amar’e Stoudemire, who co-starred with Anthony and Lin in 2011-12. Stoudemire told Marc Berman of The New York Post the following:

“…everyone wasn’t a fan of him being a new star. So he didn’t stay long. Jeremy was a great, great guy, great with teammates, worked hard. He put the work in. We were proud of him having his moment. A lot of times you got to enjoy somebody else’s success. That wasn’t the case for us during that stretch. You got to enjoy that and let that player enjoy himself and cherish those moments. He was becoming a star and I didn’t think everyone was pleased with that.’’

The working theory is that Stoudemire was alluding to Anthony with that last comment.

[BatumtheGlue]

I really like Lin, he is a perfect insurance for Walker and Batum. He plays with heart and hustle. But some of his fans and his fans haters are really annoying.

I wish the best for Lin altough he won't be a Hornet next season.

[2k15]

The problem folks fail to acknowledge is that Lin is a facilitator. Now you are going to bring in a backup point or shooting guard and hope they are good facilitators. I'm not talking about passing the ball around the perimeter or running a play. I'm talking fast break and broken plays and pnr.

I mean, you can never truly replicate Jeremy's impact if he leaves but the question is what player provides a serviceable replacement.

I think you'd try to make a run at Tyler Johnson/Delladova/Seth Curry/Austin Rivers.

If not them, then maybe Chalmers/Foye.

[hood30]

The reason for the Hornets improvement is well documented.

Batum pickup
Marvin breakout
Kemba improvement
Zeller move to c
Benching jefferson
Getting rid of stephenson, williams, neal, taylor, and maxiell
Switching lee for Hairston
Adding lamb

Lin was a slight upgrade over Brian roberts worth maybe 2 games....


If you really think lin is the reason for a 15 game win swing you're more delusional than I thought. Lebron was worth an estimated 15 wins this season

lol . 2 games? cavs and raptors only?

Even if Charlotte regressed next year, I still wouldn't give Loin most of the credit for this year's success.

At the most, Lin was the third reason why they improved this year....

I believe Kemba's improved efficiency as a shooter was the main reason for them winning so many games this year..Before this year, Kemba had been know as a poor shooter and shot below 40%FG in all but 1 year in his 4 year career prior to this year....So I'll say that is one of the top reason for the 48 win season.

Batum has to also be given more credit than Lin simpl because he played more and was a good fit for Kemba because Batum handled the ball and let Kemba run off screen and look for his shot more.

third reason is probably Marvin playing the stretch-4 position very well which allowed less clogged lane for Kemba and even Lin....Marvin shot 40% from 3point range...so Marvin style of play should get considerable credit and the fact that he produced very well in the regular season.

After that, I believe you could add Lin as the 4th biggest reason for their success and this is coming off the bench and not having as much time as the other starters to do much more...So credit to Lin for being so high on why Hornets improved this year when Lin only played 25mpg and had a restricted role off the bench.

[rallydurham]

We clearly need another big especially if we move on from jefferson.

Daniels and lamb adequately replace Lins contributions.

Also at #21 we can probably find a guard who can contribute. Any big man we take that late is a total project

[hood30]

The problem folks fail to acknowledge is that Lin is a facilitator. Now you are going to bring in a backup point or shooting guard and hope they are good facilitators. I'm not talking about passing the ball around the perimeter or running a play. I'm talking fast break and broken plays and pnr.

I mean, you can never truly replicate Jeremy's impact if he leaves but the question is what player provides a serviceable replacement.

I think you'd try to make a run at Tyler Johnson/Delladova/Seth Curry/Austin Rivers.

If not them, then maybe Chalmers/Foye.

Charlotte doesn't have to replace Lin with someone that can do what Lin does.

In reality, Lin was a huge luxurious player for Charlotte because he was much better than the role he was given and over-achieved in the bench-role, so I could see Charlotte not regressing by simply replacing Lin with an inferior and less productive back-up PG that would only play 12-15mpg...As long as this guy keep it sample and runs the offense for 10-13 minutes, they may be okay with just that since Kemba plays massive amount of minutes, so the back-up PG will only be needed for no more than 12-14 minutes

This player would not be needed to play shooting-guard like Lin since he won't have the ability to do what Lin did, but that won't be needed since MKG being healthy means that this player won't need to play extra minutes at the 2guard position.

As long as Kemba doesn't regress to being an inefficient shooter and Batum can improve on last season, I think Charlotte will be fine, even if they lose Lin...That player will play much less since he won't be as versatile as Lin..Roberts and Gutierrez would not be as productive as this year's Lin.

What I'm saying is that whoever replace Lin doesn't have to score 11.7ppg and it's very unlikely whoever back-up Kemba next year will be as productive as Lin when it comes to scoring the ball..

If Hornets can sign a big physical center that can rebound and protect the rim, that would help them greatly in improving, as long as Kemba doesn't regress and Batum improves on this year production.

[2k15]

The problem folks fail to acknowledge is that Lin is a facilitator. Now you are going to bring in a backup point or shooting guard and hope they are good facilitators. I'm not talking about passing the ball around the perimeter or running a play. I'm talking fast break and broken plays and pnr.

I mean, you can never truly replicate Jeremy's impact if he leaves but the question is what player provides a serviceable replacement.

I think you'd try to make a run at Tyler Johnson/Delladova/Seth Curry/Austin Rivers.

If not them, then maybe Chalmers/Foye.

Charlotte doesn't have to replace Lin with someone that can do what Lin does.

In reality, Lin was a huge luxurious player for Charlotte because he was much better than the role he was given and over-achieved in the bench-role, so I could see Charlotte not regressing by simply replacing Lin with an inferior and less productive back-up PG that would only play 12-15mpg...As long as this guy keep it sample and runs the offense for 10-13 minutes, they may be okay with just that

This player would not be needed to play shooting-guard like Lin since he won't have the ability to do what Lin did, but that won't be needed since MKG being healthy means that this player won't need to play extra minutes at the 2guard position.

As long as Kemba doesn't regress to being an inefficient shooter and Batum can have slightly improve on last season, I think Charlotte will be fine, even if they lose Lin.

If Hornets can sign a big physical center that can rebound and protect the rim, that would help them greatly in improving, as long as Kemba doesn't regress and Batum improves on this year production.

Yeah, that's why I like Delladova/Tyler Johnshon/Rivers/Curry. They all got size, can play defense and can shoot the ball well. I don't think they will be cheap either but I think the Hornets will be well served if one of them came in to take Lin's place.

Everyone else is either too small or too old.

[hood30]

I mean, you can never truly replicate Jeremy's impact if he leaves but the question is what player provides a serviceable replacement.

I think you'd try to make a run at Tyler Johnson/Delladova/Seth Curry/Austin Rivers.

If not them, then maybe Chalmers/Foye.

Charlotte doesn't have to replace Lin with someone that can do what Lin does.

In reality, Lin was a huge luxurious player for Charlotte because he was much better than the role he was given and over-achieved in the bench-role, so I could see Charlotte not regressing by simply replacing Lin with an inferior and less productive back-up PG that would only play 12-15mpg...As long as this guy keep it sample and runs the offense for 10-13 minutes, they may be okay with just that

This player would not be needed to play shooting-guard like Lin since he won't have the ability to do what Lin did, but that won't be needed since MKG being healthy means that this player won't need to play extra minutes at the 2guard position.

As long as Kemba doesn't regress to being an inefficient shooter and Batum can have slightly improve on last season, I think Charlotte will be fine, even if they lose Lin.

If Hornets can sign a big physical center that can rebound and protect the rim, that would help them greatly in improving, as long as Kemba doesn't regress and Batum improves on this year production.

Yeah, that's why I like Delladova/Tyler Johnshon/Rivers/Curry. They all got size, can play defense and can shoot the ball well. I don't think they will be cheap either but I think the Hornets will be well served if one of them came in to take Lin's place.

Everyone else is either too small or too old.

I don't even think Charlotte will need to sign guys as good as the likes of Delladova/Tyler/Rivers/Curry...and frankly, these guys will probably ask for more minutes than Charlotte can offer.

I think Charlotte can survive with another Brian Robert/Gutuerrez type of PG....Even The guys that you listed above will not come cheap...Most of them will probably demand no less than $6M/per and these guys won't want to play just 10-12mpg...No one that's good would want to back-up a guy like Kemba that plays 35mpg.

[2k15]

I don't even think Charlotte will need to sign guys as good as the likes of Delladova/Tyler/Rivers/Curry...and frankly, these guys will probably ask for more minutes than Charlotte can offer.

I think Charlotte can survive with another Brian Robert/Gutuerrez type of PG....Even The guys that you listed above will not come cheap...Most of them will probably demand no less than $6M/per and these guys won't want to play just 10-12mpg...No one that's good would want to back-up a guy like Kemba that plays 35mpg.

I am not sure about that. Cory Joseph got $7mm per year to be a backup in the old cap. I think $6-8mm would be totally OK to pay for one of those guys assuming they are ok with the role ( I think 18-22 mpg).

[hood30]

I don't even think Charlotte will need to sign guys as good as the likes of Delladova/Tyler/Rivers/Curry...and frankly, these guys will probably ask for more minutes than Charlotte can offer.

I think Charlotte can survive with another Brian Robert/Gutuerrez type of PG....Even The guys that you listed above will not come cheap...Most of them will probably demand no less than $6M/per and these guys won't want to play just 10-12mpg...No one that's good would want to back-up a guy like Kemba that plays 35mpg.

I am not sure about that. Cory Joseph got $7mm per year to be a backup in the old cap. I think $6-8mm would be totally OK to pay for one of those guys assuming they are ok with the role ( I think 18-22 mpg).

I think some of these guys could guaranty themselves a bit more minutes with a bigger role...If I'm dellanova/Curry/Rivers, Charlotte would be last on my list of potential suitor because Kemba plays a lot so it means less time at PG...Lin was simply lucky that MKG got hurt and Lamb was not able to secure time at SG.

I'm not even sure these guys should count on getting guaranty 18-22mpg from Clifford...Kemba plays 35mpg so there's 13 minutes left at PG...MKG, Batum, Lamb and maybe a new wing should eat up all the minutes at shooting-guard, so there won't be much minutes available there since Clifford loves to lace his starters with huge minutes......And this is exactly why many Lin fan would rather he not return and go where his time on the court would not be under pressure.

[tonman]

INJURIES

[TinmanZBoy]

austin rivers should fit the role well... IMO, he could be better playing under clifford than his dad
clifford would absolute love Delly

[2k15]

I don't even think Charlotte will need to sign guys as good as the likes of Delladova/Tyler/Rivers/Curry...and frankly, these guys will probably ask for more minutes than Charlotte can offer.

I think Charlotte can survive with another Brian Robert/Gutuerrez type of PG....Even The guys that you listed above will not come cheap...Most of them will probably demand no less than $6M/per and these guys won't want to play just 10-12mpg...No one that's good would want to back-up a guy like Kemba that plays 35mpg.

I am not sure about that. Cory Joseph got $7mm per year to be a backup in the old cap. I think $6-8mm would be totally OK to pay for one of those guys assuming they are ok with the role ( I think 18-22 mpg).

I think some of these guys could guaranty themselves a bit more minutes with a bigger role...If I'm dellanova/Curry/Rivers, Charlotte would be last on my list of potential suitor because Kemba plays a lot so it means less time at PG...Lin was simply lucky that MKG got hurt and Lamb was not able to secure time at SG.

I'm not even sure these guys should count on getting guaranty 18-22mpg from Clifford...Kemba plays 35mpg so there's 13 minutes left at PG...MKG, Batum, Lamb and maybe a new wing should eat up all the minutes at shooting-guard, so there won't be much minutes available there since Clifford loves to lace his starters with huge minutes......And this is exactly why many Lin fan would rather he not return and go where his time on the court would not be under pressure.

These guys all have size, shortest guy is Curry at 6'2. They can fill the combo guard role like Lin did, and so they pick up some minutes at 2 as well. I do think 18-22 is still realistic but certainly not guaranteed.

Clifford plays starters so much because he doesn't really trust the bench. I think if you have reliable bench players, you'd see more balanced minute distribution.

[tonman]

The reason for the Hornets improvement is well documented.

Batum pickup
Marvin breakout
Kemba improvement
Zeller move to c
Benching jefferson
Getting rid of stephenson, williams, neal, taylor, and maxiell
Switching lee for Hairston
Adding lamb

Lin was a slight upgrade over Brian roberts worth maybe 2 games....


If you really think lin is the reason for a 15 game win swing you're more delusional than I thought. Lebron was worth an estimated 15 wins this season

lol . 2 games? cavs and raptors only?

Even if Charlotte regressed next year, I still wouldn't give Loin most of the credit for this year's success.

At the most, Lin was the third reason why they improved this year....

I believe Kemba's improved efficiency as a shooter was the main reason for them winning so many games this year..Before this year, Kemba had been know as a poor shooter and shot below 40%FG in all but 1 year in his 4 year career prior to this year....So I'll say that is one of the top reason for the 48 win season.

Batum has to also be given more credit than Lin simpl because he played more and was a good fit for Kemba because Batum handled the ball and let Kemba run off screen and look for his shot more.

third reason is probably Marvin playing the stretch-4 position very well which allowed less clogged lane for Kemba and even Lin....Marvin shot 40% from 3point range...so Marvin style of play should get considerable credit and the fact that he produced very well in the regular season.

After that, I believe you could add Lin as the 4th biggest reason for their success and this is coming off the bench and not having as much time as the other starters to do much more...So credit to Lin for being so high on why Hornets improved this year when Lin only played 25mpg and had a restricted role off the bench.

Kemba was a career below 40% shooter and the hornets managed to make the playoffs. Batum was given the starter role. Lin wasn't. Of course batum played more. Small sample size but how did Lin do when he started? You talk Marvin but he was on the team Already. More likely pace and offensive style. You think Lin would be here in a slow methodical plodding offense? But have a change in style requires the right players that fit that style. See Knicks.

[rallydurham]

Lol at comparing lin to rivers.

Rivers is trash.

[hood30]

I am not sure about that. Cory Joseph got $7mm per year to be a backup in the old cap. I think $6-8mm would be totally OK to pay for one of those guys assuming they are ok with the role ( I think 18-22 mpg).

I think some of these guys could guaranty themselves a bit more minutes with a bigger role...If I'm dellanova/Curry/Rivers, Charlotte would be last on my list of potential suitor because Kemba plays a lot so it means less time at PG...Lin was simply lucky that MKG got hurt and Lamb was not able to secure time at SG.

I'm not even sure these guys should count on getting guaranty 18-22mpg from Clifford...Kemba plays 35mpg so there's 13 minutes left at PG...MKG, Batum, Lamb and maybe a new wing should eat up all the minutes at shooting-guard, so there won't be much minutes available there since Clifford loves to lace his starters with huge minutes......And this is exactly why many Lin fan would rather he not return and go where his time on the court would not be under pressure.

These guys all have size, shortest guy is Curry at 6'2. They can fill the combo guard role like Lin did, and so they pick up some minutes at 2 as well. I do think 18-22 is still realistic but certainly not guaranteed.

Clifford plays starters so much because he doesn't really trust the bench. I think if you have reliable bench players, you'd see more balanced minute distribution.

Well, first of all, while he may be listed at 6'2, Curry looks much smaller and plays much smaller...He's definitely weaker than Lin when it comes to guarding taller guys...The reason he hasn't been playing much in his career is because he's not really a true PG and he doesn't have the size to guard shooting-guards....He's like Troy Daniel in some way..Too small at the 2 and not good enough to play PG.

Clifford plays his starters because they are his main guys and when push comes to shove, he will always put all his eggs on Kemba/MKG/Batum..I don't think that will change next year.

We saw a glimpse of that in game 7 when he went with his starters and could only find 19 minutes for Lin, a guy that played a major role in winning all 3 games in the series.

He also has a huge preference for taller wings...With MKG back healthy, I see no chance he will be trusting a smaller guard like Seth Curry to play alongside Kemba instead of MKG/Batum.

Remember, Clifford started PJ Hairston ahead of Lin..I'm still baffled by going with PJ instead of letting Lin start.

Also, remember, Lin's combo-guard role and minutes was only possible because of MKG injury...If you take that out, Lin would been heavily restricted to playing Kemba's back-up minutes.....

So any combo-guard that is signing with Charlotte has to keep that in mind...Lin's minutes looks good for a back-up, but there were only possible because of injury...

Basically, they should not look at Lin's minutes which stood at 26mpg and think they will also get that same minutes...I think Clifford will probably play some minutes with 2PG but these minutes will be restricted because of MKG/Batum/Lamb and maybe a new tall wing on the bench.

There were time when Clifford stated that he wanted to take Lin out of some games but Lin was making it very hard on him because of how he was playing and Lin being a better defender than asdvertized, even when guarding taller/bigger players.

So Lin's ability and his versatility forced Clifford's hands..and Lin was also Lucky with injury..and he got to start 13 games....Guys like Della/Curry/Rivers may not be so lucky.

Also, Rivers is more of a shooting-guard than a PG...You shouldn't expect the same type of play-making ability that you got from Lin..Neither is Seth Curry for that matter...I know he played well in the few weeks he got to start when the season was over, but I wouldn't count on these meaningless games as the normalcy for Seth Curry...

Seth Curry is an under-sized shooting guard..He's 6'1 at best.

Rivers is a 6'4 shooting guard...Dellanova is 6'4 and can actually play both comfortably, but if I was him, I'd go back-up a PG that plays less minutes than Kemba and there are many of them out there...I'd rather go back-up Jeff Teagues who plays 32mpg.

[2k15]

So any combo-guard that is signing with Charlotte has to keep that in mind...Lin's minutes looks good for a back-up, but there were only possible because of injury...

Yeah, it does depend on what their options are. If they have a ton of suitors, then that's the market and Charlotte might be priced out of them but I think we'd get a good shot at 1 or 2 of them.