Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1

[2k15]

Remember, Clifford started PJ Hairston ahead of Lin..I'm still baffled by going with PJ instead of letting Lin start.

You're placing too much emphasis on starting versus bench. Lin routinely closed-out games with PJ on the bench and routinely played more minutes than PJ. It was very clear where PJ is on Clifford's pecking order.

[LostInACrowd]

Lin shot 41% FG and 21% 3PT in the playoffs with 2.6 ast and 1.6 tos. He was huge in Games 3 and 4 and had a nice Game 5, but taken as a whole I'm not sure he really increased his value much in the playoffs.

He laid an absolute egg in a massive Game 6 - 1-8 from the field, 3 TOs to 1 ast, 5 PFs in 24 minutes. If he showed up like he did in Games 3 though 5 then we would still be alive in the playoffs.

Miami is arguably a top 3 defensive team when Whiteside starts. These are Charlotte's numbers during the regular season and playoffs:

Charlotte regular season- 103.4 pts, .439 fg%, .362 3ptfg%, 21.7 ast, TS% .545, ORtg 105.1, DRtg 101.8

Charlotte playoff series- 90.3 pts, .396 fg%, 308 3ptfg%, 13.6 ast, TS% 49.4, ORtg 96.4, DRtg 106.5

Lin actually increased slightly his points and TS% during the playoffs. I think it's asking too much for someone who comes off the bench and only makes around 2 million to have 4 straight games where he puts up 16.7 pts and 4.7 assists on 47.2% and 37.5% 3pt shooting against a very good defensive team like Miami.

Yes he did have a stinker of a game 6. But before the series, if you knew he would have 3 decent games, 3 very good games and 1 stinker, most people would be very happy with that. Overall, I think he had a good series. Also, I think every game is big when they end up playing 7.

I think he improved his value in the playoffs. There was so much positive things being said by the analysts and commentators. After it's all done, what sticks in peoples mind is the headlines they read and what most people are saying as opposed to the actual stats.

I think Lin will be offered a deal for 9-11 million per year. But then again, he got more in the Houston deal and less in the Charlotte deal than I thought would happen. So, what do I know.

[TinmanZBoy]

man, at this speed, you guys are going to have a Jeremy in thread No 5 in no time

[hood30]

Remember, Clifford started PJ Hairston ahead of Lin..I'm still baffled by going with PJ instead of letting Lin start.

You're placing too much emphasis on starting versus bench. Lin routinely closed-out games with PJ on the bench and routinely played more minutes than PJ. It was very clear where PJ is on Clifford's pecking order.

As a Lin fan, when MKG went down, I felt that Clifford owed it to Lin to start him , given the way he was playing in the pre-season.

And while Lin's closed out games, his minutes was still contained to about 25-28....I would have rather Lin started and guaranty him 30+ minutes.

Also, I have pointed out the problem with coming off the bench and closing out games on a regular basis by playing a lot of minutes...The problem with that is Lin had to play too many minutes without taking a break...As a starter, you can take a rest in between quarters, but as a bench, you can end up playing 18 straight minutes.

Lin, surprisingly, brough this facts in one of the playoff post-game interview and him being too tired when he's asked to come off the bench and to close-out games

Interestingly, when I heard him make this comment, it felt like he was hinting that his preference was to start and was giving this fact as a reason for wanting to start.

Maybe you can debate that and disagree, but I felt the Hornets would had been a better team by simply starting Lin and just scatter Kemba/Lin minutes so that there's always one guy on the floor.

My believe in this is only re-enforced when you look at how well Lin played as a starter..It's night and day when you compare his stats as a starter as oppose to his stats when he comes off the bench.

In his 13 starts for Charlotte, he shot 46%FG and hit the 3point at a 41% clip..while playing 34mpg.
As a bench player, Lin played 24.6mpg...he only shot 39%FG...and shot the 3point at an horrible 30% clip.

Maybe, JUST MAYBE, the discrepancy in these stats have to do with the fact that as a starter, you have enough minutes to get into a rhythm and the fact that you aren't as tired when asked to close out games while coming off the bench.


In my opinion, Clifford was too stuck on this size stuff..Just start Lin so that he can get proper rest instead of asking him to play off the bench and being forced to play 18 straight minutes because PJ suck so much that the bench-guy has to close-out on a regular-basis and he's very tired by the end of games.

[yosemiteben]

Honestly I don't understand why the folks who only post in this thread come on here at all. If you only care to talk about Lin or about how other players impact Lin, why not go somewhere else to do that?

[fatlever]

How many times did Lin play 18 straight minutes?

[2k15]

Remember, Clifford started PJ Hairston ahead of Lin..I'm still baffled by going with PJ instead of letting Lin start.

You're placing too much emphasis on starting versus bench. Lin routinely closed-out games with PJ on the bench and routinely played more minutes than PJ. It was very clear where PJ is on Clifford's pecking order.

As a Lin fan, when MKG went down, I felt that Clifford owed it to Lin to start him , given the way he was playing in the pre-season.

And while Lin's closed out games, his minutes was still contained to about 25-28....I would have rather Lin started and guaranty him 30+ minutes.

Also, I have pointed out the problem with coming off the bench and closing out games by playing a lot of minutes...The problem with that is Lin had to play too many minutes without taking a break...As a starter, you can take a rest in between quarters, but as a bench, you can end up playing 18 straight minutes.

Lin, surprisingly, brough this facts in one of the playoff post-game interview and him being too tired when he's asked to come off the bench and to close-out games

Maybe you can debate that and disagree, but I felt the Hornets would had been a better team by simply starting Lin and just scatter Kemba/Lin minutes so that there's always one guy on the floor.


Clifford was too stuck on this size stuff..Just start Lin so that he can get proper rest instead of asking him to play off the bench and being forced to play 18 straight minutes because PJ suck so much that the starter has to close-out and he's very tired by the end of games.

The 18 minutes straight didn't become a problem until the playoffs if I recall correctly. He usually comes in at about the 6 minute mark of Q1, break between quarters, play until 6 minute mark in Q2. Q3, come in at about 6 minute mark and then in Q4, might get 1-2 minute of a breather play the 9-10 minutes. He rarely plays 18 minutes unless he was just on fire.

[2k15]

Honestly I don't understand why the folks who only post in this thread come on here at all. If you only care to talk about Lin or about how other players impact Lin, why not go somewhere else to do that?

Why don't you just ban everyone in this thread? Problem solved.

[2k15]

How many times did Lin play 18 straight minutes?

The Celtics game came to mind but I don't think it happened with a great deal of frequency -
http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=400829092

Entered Q3 at 11:40 and played until there's about a minute left in Q4.

And I think a couple of times during the playoffs he played long stretches because Batum was out.

[yosemiteben]

Honestly I don't understand why the folks who only post in this thread come on here at all. If you only care to talk about Lin or about how other players impact Lin, why not go somewhere else to do that?

Why don't you just ban everyone in this thread? Problem solved.

Closer to reality than you might think.

[2k15]

Honestly I don't understand why the folks who only post in this thread come on here at all. If you only care to talk about Lin or about how other players impact Lin, why not go somewhere else to do that?

Why don't you just ban everyone in this thread? Problem solved.

Closer to reality than you might think.

Do it. This is not a very productive habit for me as it is. You'd be doing me a favor.

[fatlever]

Honestly I don't understand why the folks who only post in this thread come on here at all. If you only care to talk about Lin or about how other players impact Lin, why not go somewhere else to do that?

Why don't you just ban everyone in this thread? Problem solved.

Unfortunately, I think we are pretty close to locking this thread. Not much productive discussion is happening right now, just people talking in circles, and there won't be much noteworthy news worth posting for a while. I'd hate if it came to that, but, this thread is getting ridiculous.

[2k15]

Honestly I don't understand why the folks who only post in this thread come on here at all. If you only care to talk about Lin or about how other players impact Lin, why not go somewhere else to do that?

Why don't you just ban everyone in this thread? Problem solved.

Unfortunately, I think we are pretty close to locking this thread. Not much productive discussion is happening right now, just people talking in circles, and there won't be much noteworthy news worth posting for a while. I'd hate if it came to that, but, this thread is getting ridiculous.

No offense Fat as I generally like you, but sometimes I think you guys take your job too seriously. Who is harmed by people talking in this thread? I mean, message received. I'll see myself out but try to relax some guys.

[rallydurham]

Internet running out of bandwidth again due to these pesky lin fans.

I'd rather have delly than lin his on ball defense and shooting is significantly better

[fatlever]

Why don't you just ban everyone in this thread? Problem solved.

Unfortunately, I think we are pretty close to locking this thread. Not much productive discussion is happening right now, just people talking in circles, and there won't be much noteworthy news worth posting for a while. I'd hate if it came to that, but, this thread is getting ridiculous.

No offense Fat as I generally like you, but sometimes I think you guys take your job too seriously. Who is harmed by people talking in this thread? I mean, message received. I'll see myself out but try to relax some guys.

No offense taken, its a fair point and something we wrestle with often. Do you just allow people to go back and forth for pages after pages talking in circles or do you shut that nonsense down? One side of the argument is that as long as people aren't breaking rules, then let them go, even it is unreadable for 90% of the rest of the board. The other side, lurkers and active posters come here to look for info and valuable discussion and get turned off by seeing pages after pages of a few people going around in circles and we end up pushing people away as a result.

[hood30]

How many times did Lin play 18 straight minutes?

I don't think the amount of time he played 18 straight minutes should matter in this debate.. It could be 15 straights minutes....My point is, it's an handicap when coming off the bench for a high-end back-up like Lin as oppose to being a starter and getting your 5-6 minutes rest between quarters.

The fact is that whenever Lin is on Linsanity-mode, Clifford is forced to keep him out there for long stretch of minutes with no break...That means he's more tired than the fresh starter who doesn't have this problem.

To Lin's credit, the fact that he has this ability to completely go off in any given night is what create this problem in the first place.
The bench guy is not suppose to play 25+ minutes on a regular basis, unless you start a guy that is bad like PJ.

Guys like Dellanova, Corey Joseph doesn't have the same scoring ability as Lin, so this is less of a problem for them.

[fatlever]

Internet running out of bandwidth again due to these pesky lin fans.

I'd rather have delly than lin his on ball defense and shooting is significantly better

You've been trolling the Lin fanbase for the past several days and part of that is why this nonsense is still happening. I think you've done enough damage.

[bws94]

It's not about numbers with Lin for me and maybe for some others.

The whole magic of MKG is his energy. And Kemba too. I remember reading from those at either game 3 or 4 that Lin was a ball of energy and that it impacted the team so much. When Lin has that energy, it is very infectious, and it impacts the whole team.

You can see an assist on a stat sheet and you can go to the game and see a player pass to a player and crowd cheers or a player make a bunch of great moves and give it up and the crowd roars. The latter pumps up the team, gives it momentum, that's why Lin fans like him. Because he's one of those players that impacts the team in that way when he's going well. That's why all of the downs and the bad play and the not there for a few games is worth it all. Because that passes and then Lin makes his mark. And often, it is against top opponents.

Hopefully, at some point soon in his career, Lin will have minimal down times and maximum up times.

[bws94]

I can understand locking this thread. fats, great job all season 'round. It's not easy with Lin on boards, contrary to what type of locker room presence he is on teams. Hats off to ya!

[KM6]

Not sure if Lin fans had any hand in this

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPN730/status/728330443821584384[/tweet]

Honestly, I think most Lin fans would love to see JLin start somewhere else instead of coming back to sit on the bench.

So I think this is mostly from Hornets fan base instead.