Official Trade Thread - Part XXX

[payitforward]

Is a Beal + Otto + 1st (2018) for Cousins + McLemore + Caron Butler trade palpable or would we have to add more? Beal would be a Sign and Trade..but I'm just not sure about the contract numbers in making them work.

Honestly, as a team I don't think we can afford to trade any more picks and certainly not our best young player.

Essentially, Cousins would be all we got out of this trade. McLemore has looked like not much so far, and Caron's career is over. Not for me. But there'll be people on this Board who are all over this trade.

I would push beal and Morris for DC and seth curry and a contract of their choosing that they want to loose. We can afford to keep loosing picks.

Not sure I follow you exactly? No picks in this, right? Trade Beal and Morris for Cousins, Seth Curry, and any contract they want to get rid of? Do I have that right?

Morris is not worth much, and Beal is an enormous risk. I can't imagine the Kings having any interest in this trade. Anyway, Seth Curry turned down his option. He's a FA and can't be traded.

[gambitx777]

Honestly, as a team I don't think we can afford to trade any more picks and certainly not our best young player.

Essentially, Cousins would be all we got out of this trade. McLemore has looked like not much so far, and Caron's career is over. Not for me. But there'll be people on this Board who are all over this trade.

I would push beal and Morris for DC and seth curry and a contract of their choosing that they want to loose. We can afford to keep loosing picks.

Not sure I follow you exactly? No picks in this, right? Trade Beal and Morris for Cousins, Seth Curry, and any contract they want to get rid of? Do I have that right?

Morris is not worth much, and Beal is an enormous risk. I can't imagine the Kings having any interest in this trade. Anyway, Seth Curry turned down his option. He's a FA and can't be traded.

Then sign seth! But who cares if they don't have any interest in it, make the offer if they don't like it walk away. We need to start negotiating from a place of power, not weakness and desperation. even if not power exists if you beat your chest hard enough people stop to think about what you might do next. Stop giving teams what they want and be willing to walk away from a bad deal.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Why does Beal want to sign with the Kings? He can't get bigger raises in a sign and trade deal anymore, so the financial incentive isn't there for such a deal. Not to mention even if he did, he would be BYC for the purposes of the trade, and I'm not certain that trade deal actually works financially if Beal gets the max. It could certainly work, but I think it requires other pieces involved, which starts making things really complicated.

Sign and trades for legit value are going to be rare at this point, when so many teams have cap space and free agents usually have basically no incentive to agree to them unless they're picking the destination. I could be wrong, but I don't really see the leverage there unless a player is asking to go to a very specific market, which kills their value in another way.

[nate33]

Why does Beal want to sign with the Kings? He can't get bigger raises in a sign and trade deal anymore, so the financial incentive isn't there for such a deal. Not to mention even if he did, he would be BYC for the purposes of the trade, and I'm not certain that trade deal actually works financially if Beal gets the max. It could certainly work, but I think it requires other pieces involved, which starts making things really complicated.

Sign and trades for legit value are going to be rare at this point, when so many teams have cap space and free agents usually have basically no incentive to agree to them unless they're picking the destination. I could be wrong, but I don't really see the leverage there unless a player is asking to go to a very specific market, which kills their value in another way.

BYC doesn't apply because we are dealing with raw cap space, not trade exceptions. But your other point is absolutely correct. A Beal S&T is dead on arrival because Beal has no motivation at all to coordinate with us on any trade deal.

[Dark Faze]

If I'm the Kings I'd take Beal in a second. Worse case scenario is he's the same player as he was for the Wiz and they move up a few spots in the lottery the next couple of years as they look for a star. If he breaks out, even better, very young star talent with the potential to bring in lottery picks to add to him and Willey Cauley Stein as a foundation.

Even if Brad becomes Eric Gordon on a new max, it doesn't matter because the Kings will be entering tank mode regardless. Better to do so with the potential of a guy like Brad than to wait two years trying to keep Cousins only for him to walk. Kings fans have to be honest, the chances of keeping Cousins is close to none. They don't have the time to do it--they've more or less got to make a huge leap next year. Because after next year he'll be in his final season and you'll have to make a decision by the deadline.

I think I'd take Beal over almost any package aside from a top 5 pick too. I'd rather have Brad's potential than two mid firsts and a player like Olynyk personally.

[fishercob]

Why does Beal want to sign with the Kings? He can't get bigger raises in a sign and trade deal anymore, so the financial incentive isn't there for such a deal. Not to mention even if he did, he would be BYC for the purposes of the trade, and I'm not certain that trade deal actually works financially if Beal gets the max. It could certainly work, but I think it requires other pieces involved, which starts making things really complicated.

Sign and trades for legit value are going to be rare at this point, when so many teams have cap space and free agents usually have basically no incentive to agree to them unless they're picking the destination. I could be wrong, but I don't really see the leverage there unless a player is asking to go to a very specific market, which kills their value in another way.

BYC doesn't apply because we are dealing with raw cap space, not trade exceptions. But your other point is absolutely correct. A Beal S&T is dead on arrival because Beal has no motivation at all to coordinate with us on any trade deal.

He might have some motivation. If we tell him that we're going to match any offer sheet and then look to trade him after December 15, he's in an awkward position. First, he can't be traded to the team he signed the sheet with for a full calendar year. Second, once he's under contract he has zero control over where he goes.

If the Wizards tell Beal they want to go in another direction but they aren't willing to let him walk for nothing, then there is incentive for them to work together so that Beal gets the deal, destination, and role he wants.

I think Sacramento could be dumb enough to trade Cauley-Stein and their pick for Beal. That would be amazing.

[LyricalRico]

Why does Beal want to sign with the Kings? He can't get bigger raises in a sign and trade deal anymore, so the financial incentive isn't there for such a deal. Not to mention even if he did, he would be BYC for the purposes of the trade, and I'm not certain that trade deal actually works financially if Beal gets the max. It could certainly work, but I think it requires other pieces involved, which starts making things really complicated.

Sign and trades for legit value are going to be rare at this point, when so many teams have cap space and free agents usually have basically no incentive to agree to them unless they're picking the destination. I could be wrong, but I don't really see the leverage there unless a player is asking to go to a very specific market, which kills their value in another way.

BYC doesn't apply because we are dealing with raw cap space, not trade exceptions. But your other point is absolutely correct. A Beal S&T is dead on arrival because Beal has no motivation at all to coordinate with us on any trade deal.

He might have some motivation. If we tell him that we're going to match any offer sheet and then look to trade him after December 15, he's in an awkward position. First, he can't be traded to the team he signed the sheet with for a full calendar year. Second, once he's under contract he has zero control over where he goes.

If the Wizards tell Beal they want to go in another direction but they aren't willing to let him walk for nothing, then there is incentive for them to work together so that Beal gets the deal, destination, and role he wants.

I think Sacramento could be dumb enough to trade Cauley-Stein and their pick for Beal. That would be amazing.

Great post. Wiz aren't completely leverage-free (of course whether they use their leverage or not is another story) and man I would love that trade! It's similar to one I posted back during the season. Heck, I'd do it without the pick TBH.

[nate33]

Why does Beal want to sign with the Kings? He can't get bigger raises in a sign and trade deal anymore, so the financial incentive isn't there for such a deal. Not to mention even if he did, he would be BYC for the purposes of the trade, and I'm not certain that trade deal actually works financially if Beal gets the max. It could certainly work, but I think it requires other pieces involved, which starts making things really complicated.

Sign and trades for legit value are going to be rare at this point, when so many teams have cap space and free agents usually have basically no incentive to agree to them unless they're picking the destination. I could be wrong, but I don't really see the leverage there unless a player is asking to go to a very specific market, which kills their value in another way.

BYC doesn't apply because we are dealing with raw cap space, not trade exceptions. But your other point is absolutely correct. A Beal S&T is dead on arrival because Beal has no motivation at all to coordinate with us on any trade deal.

He might have some motivation. If we tell him that we're going to match any offer sheet and then look to trade him after December 15, he's in an awkward position. First, he can't be traded to the team he signed the sheet with for a full calendar year. Second, once he's under contract he has zero control over where he goes.

If the Wizards tell Beal they want to go in another direction but they aren't willing to let him walk for nothing, then there is incentive for them to work together so that Beal gets the deal, destination, and role he wants.

I think Sacramento could be dumb enough to trade Cauley-Stein and their pick for Beal. That would be amazing.

I think this leverage is negligible. At his age, Beal is more worried about money than role. Besides, any team that would be willing to trade for him will certainly give him a featured role so it's kind of moot.

[I_Like_Dirt]

He might have some motivation. If we tell him that we're going to match any offer sheet and then look to trade him after December 15, he's in an awkward position. First, he can't be traded to the team he signed the sheet with for a full calendar year. Second, once he's under contract he has zero control over where he goes.

If the Wizards tell Beal they want to go in another direction but they aren't willing to let him walk for nothing, then there is incentive for them to work together so that Beal gets the deal, destination, and role he wants.

I think Sacramento could be dumb enough to trade Cauley-Stein and their pick for Beal. That would be amazing.

What would he be afraid of when it came to trades? That the Wizards would trade him to Sacramento? That probably just motivates Beal to sign an offer sheet with a big trade kicker.

[dckingsfan]

Any way we could do a S&T with Boston for Sullinger and Zeller - probably not possible. But if I am Boston, I am goin after Whiteside + hoping for Ingram in the draft. Getting Beal would complete my plan.

We get Sullinger and Zeller and bring over Satoransky.

Reaching for straws...

[LyricalRico]

Any way we could do a S&T with Boston for Sullinger and Zeller - probably not possible. But if I am Boston, I am goin after Whiteside + hoping for Ingram in the draft. Getting Beal would complete my plan.

We get Sullinger and Zeller and bring over Satoransky.

Reaching for straws...

Any Beal S&T where we get back young talent and/or picks is fine with me.

From Boston's perpective, your overall scenario makes some sense. Adding Whiteside and Beal fills their needs for a true center and a perimeter shooter/scorer, but would they really spend to get those guys? Especially since they still wouldn't have a true star to carry them in the playoffs.

[payitforward]

Any way we could do a S&T with Boston for Sullinger and Zeller - probably not possible. But if I am Boston, I am goin after Whiteside + hoping for Ingram in the draft. Getting Beal would complete my plan.

We get Sullinger and Zeller and bring over Satoransky.

Reaching for straws...

Any Beal S&T where we get back young talent and/or picks is fine with me.

From Boston's perpective, your overall scenario makes some sense. Adding Whiteside and Beal fills their needs for a true center and a perimeter shooter/scorer, but would they really spend to get those guys? Especially since they still wouldn't have a true star to carry them in the playoffs.

Why ever would they do a sign and trade that cost them "young talent and picks" as a way of getting Beal? Why not just give him an offer? If we match, find somebody else.

Boston has so incredibly much flexibility right now that even signing Whiteside and Durant wouldn't rule out doing that! They have a core of 10 guys returning for @$34.5m. They could add Whiteside, Durant and Beal and still stay under the cap.

That said, I'd say Beal might not be at the top of their list. They just had a terrific season. They have the #3 pick. They also have the #16, 23, 31 and 35 picks. If they want a second pick near the top of the draft those assets would make it happen easily.

As it is, if they want to add a wing scorer, they can take Hield at #3 & Denzell Valentine at #16. Those are 2 great prospects, IMO. Then they might grab Zimmerman and Brice Johnson with their next 2 picks. Then they have #s 35, 45, 51 & 58 to pick and stash guys.

Now... obviously they aren't bringing in 4 rookies and stashing 4 other rookies! The point is that those assets give them many, many ways to make moves that add to their talent. They don't need Bradley Beal, and in truth he doesn't do very much for them -- or he isn't sure to.

I'd say they are an under the radar good bet to wind up with Kevin Durant. We could see another era of Celtics domination.

[dckingsfan]

Yep, sadly you are right PIF - well I was grasping at straw on the side of the cliff. Thanks for the push

[payitforward]

Yep, sadly you are right PIF - well I was grasping at straw on the side of the cliff. Thanks for the push

sorry 'bout that...

Still, there are posts here claiming we have a chance at 50 wins next year. May they be right!

I hope Beal turns into the monster I thought he had a chance to be back when we drafted him.
I hope Wall cuts his turnovers and jump shots.
I hope Porter develops again next year as much as he did this year.
I hope Gortat continues to look and play younger than he is and at his current level.
I hope Oubre spends all Summer developing an off hand.
I hope Morris... well, something anyway.
I hope we are smart enough to sign a couple of undrafted guys who can develop and surprise us.
I hope we sign some young FAs that can develop and surprise us.

I hope for all good things. But hope is not a brain function. Brain sees hard times ahead.

[dckingsfan]

Just adding on...

Yep, sadly you are right PIF - well I was grasping at straw on the side of the cliff. Thanks for the push

sorry 'bout that...

Still, there are posts here claiming we have a chance at 50 wins next year. May they be right!

I hope Beal turns into the monster I thought he had a chance to be back when we drafted him.
I hope Wall cuts his turnovers and jump shots (and his creaky knees heal).
I hope Porter develops again next year as much as he did this year.
I hope Gortat continues to look and play younger than he is and at his current level.
I hope Oubre spends all Summer developing an off hand (and learns to pass).
I hope Morris... well, something anyway.
I hope we are smart enough to sign a couple of undrafted guys who can develop and surprise us.
I hope we sign some young FAs that can develop and surprise us.

I hope for all good things. But hope is not a brain function. Brain sees hard times ahead.

[gambitx777]

I don't really think that blowing it up right now is a real option. Lets be honest, do we trust EG to build a team from the bottom up, do we want to live that again. NO. we do not, if we blow it up it has to be after the John Wall era has run its course and EG needs to go along with it. We have an all star point guard and some solid players around him. We should try to make something work, I don't want EG to be the one doing that but its not going to change any time soon.

[payitforward]

Well you are right that it won't happen and that it shouldn't happen under Ernie's regime. Ted doesn't seem to think that a GM (and his staff) adds much value. As long as Ernie was "following the plan," he's all right. In other words, all the value comes from the plan -- i.e. from Ted. Top-down.

This is of course the exact opposite of the mantra in the technology industry, where he comes from. In technology, the word is always to "hire someone better than you are." The rationale being that either it's someone better than you or it's someone not as good as you. If you scale the former practice, you win. If you scale the latter practice, your employees get worse and worse and worse, as everyone at every level winds up hiring people less good than himself/herself.

Confirms what I've been sure of for a long time: Ted didn't make AOL a success. He was just in the right place and got swept along when a real genius tech entrepreneur, Steve Case, created the company. As I've described it before, the wind blew him high up in a tree, and now he thinks he can fly.

So, right... it ain't happening. But, you are wrong that we have "some solid players around" John Wall. Well... not altogether wrong: we have Gortat and Porter. Beal is a question mark, Oubre is a raw kid, and Morris is a complete non-entity -- below average for a PF off the bench.

[AFM]

What was that quote about Ted flying in the sky again? Something about a kite in a hurricane? I forget.

[Ruzious]

I don't really think that blowing it up right now is a real option. Lets be honest, do we trust EG to build a team from the bottom up, do we want to live that again. NO. we do not, if we blow it up it has to be after the John Wall era has run its course and EG needs to go along with it. We have an all star point guard and some solid players around him. We should try to make something work, I don't want EG to be the one doing that but its not going to change any time soon.

EG has shown his ability to tank - when he got rid of aging veterans and got the team to stink enough to get high picks for Wall, Beal, Porter, and Vesely. And the unintentional tank year when he got the pick they traded for Miller/Foye. He can tank without trying. And he still hasn't traded next year's first... yet.

[dckingsfan]

So, looks like Saric wants to come over the Sixers this season. And they have Landry, Embiid, Okafor, Noel and Homes under contract. You gotta think something is going to give. Are we in any position to benefit?

Maybe a Satoransky for Saric trade? Or Beal S&T for one of the bigs + ?

I know others probably have more of what Philly wants - namely guards.