Ben Simmons

[Ettorefm]

Probably a bunch of other dudes whose names we don't know too. Point is, being tall and having a decent handle won't make you a star. Learning to do a bunch of other stuff will--finishing in traffic at 50%+, being useful from 20 ft while D closes out, defending guys longer/stronger than him, etc.

By the way, ettore, your's sigs hilarious! Reminds me of a lot of ignorant folks I grew up with.

Absolutely. Just wanted to mention BG because his handles and vision are amazing for a guy his size. He can and has been the playmaker of the team for many games with CP out (not the point guard, but the facilitator) and some people underrate this aspect of his game.

I love Simmons and would love to have him on the Suns. I like scoring, but playmaking and being a team player first is what I love the most on a star. People congrat Curry's scoring, but sometimes forget he's one of the best passers in the league and has savant court vision to make everyone around him better. If he didn't have godlike shooting, he'd still be one of the league leaders in assists and hockey assists

Thanks for the commentary on the sig What can I say? Some people live in their own bubble.

[madmaxmedia]

I thought Lamar was a pretty close comparison for Ben Simmons. Lamar had size and athleticism and SG-level skills from the PF spot, but not a great shooter. Lamar started quite a few games at PG for the Clippers his rookie season, and got 5 triple doubles his second year IIRC.

A more focused Lamar would have ended up with a better career, even though Lamar had a pretty good career anyway. Maybe Simmons floor could be around Lamar's actual career, and his upside would have been what a more focused and dedicated Lamar would have achieved?

[sikma42]

I thought Lamar was a pretty close comparison for Ben Simmons. Lamar had size and athleticism and SG-level skills from the PF spot, but not a great shooter. Lamar started quite a few games at PG for the Clippers his rookie season, and got 5 triple doubles his second year IIRC.

A more focused Lamar would have ended up with a better career, even though Lamar had a pretty good career anyway. Maybe Simmons floor could be around Lamar's actual career, and his upside would have been what a more focused and dedicated Lamar would have achieved?

Only thing is that I don't see Odoms upside as a defender. Odom had a good wingspan and instincts that allowed him to be a good defender at the 4, don't see that type of thing happening for Simmons


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[Ettorefm]

I thought Lamar was a pretty close comparison for Ben Simmons. Lamar had size and athleticism and SG-level skills from the PF spot, but not a great shooter. Lamar started quite a few games at PG for the Clippers his rookie season, and got 5 triple doubles his second year IIRC.

A more focused Lamar would have ended up with a better career, even though Lamar had a pretty good career anyway. Maybe Simmons floor could be around Lamar's actual career, and his upside would have been what a more focused and dedicated Lamar would have achieved?

Only thing is that I don't see Odoms upside as a defender. Odom had a good wingspan and instincts that allowed him to be a good defender at the 4, don't see that type of thing happening for Simmons


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You certainly make a lot of sense, but let's remember...his winsgpan is not that bad, considering the diminishing returns the taller you get. I mean, LBJ is 6'8, and has a 7'0 wingspan. Simmons is 6'10 and has a 7'05 wingspan, which is not that great, but he can make it work.

His rebounding ability also shows he knows how to play big. usually the guys that combine awesome rebounding with bad defense have one thing in common - bad measurements and being undersized. It's arguable if his measurements are bad, but he's definetely not undersized. Guys like Faried, Love, Thomas Robinson, all those guys are terrific rebounders because of their motor and skill, but lack the size to defend PFs. Simmons is 6'10 and is well built. Some of those guys are between 6'7 and '6'8

Blake Griffin is called out for his dinosaur arms, but let's have some perspective - he's just a little shorter than simmons and has a 6'11 wingspan. Both would benefit from an astonishing winsgpan, but it could be worse. Also, Simmons has the body structure to defend bigs more effectively than Griffin - not that BG is weak, just that his core is not as strong built as Simmons'.

I can see Simmons getting to 250 just like blake.

On instincts...I think he has great instincts on defense, just doesn't have the best motor, but that can also be improved by having a great coach who has a defensive philosophy that players buy into and some stakes. Rarely do good defenders with non-elite measurements show that kind of drive in college, it practically never happens. They don't know about that untapped potential like defense-first guys do

Not that Simmons will ever be elite, he won't. Just giving my two cents. He'll be fine on defense. It's his shooting that I'm worried about. I hate this myth that shooting is "the easiest thing to learn''. No it's not. Confirmation bias makes people forget that 90% of the players 1-4 that enter the league as bad shooters never develop to anything more than mediocre shooters. One kawhi leonard case doesn't mean you can suddenly fix bad shooters

[Mik317]

Very few poor shooters become elite ones for sure. But a lot of them become passable to the point where you have to atleast pay attention to them...which is all someone of Simmons' toolset really needs IMO. That opens up the floor for him. He will never be Durant from deep at all.

and honestly all he needs to add is a mid range jumper that he can take and make off the bounce. He just needs something that will force people to not camp off of him and play him for the drive only. That is the big question.

It also will take time...good luck.

[LakersSquad]

I think Simmons will be a great player even though I want Ingram on the Lakers

[ALL HAIL]

Quote

'Though I do like Ingram a lot. But Simmons is a much more unique talent with that ability to help your team in a lot of different ways. If he’s not scoring he’s rebounding, if he’s not rebounding he’s setting teammates up to score…he’s always doing something positive for the team. Ingram, though very talented, is the type of player the league is seeing more and more of. He draws many comparisons to Durant for obvious reasons, but he’s not nearly as impressive as Durant was at the same point in his career.

It’s hard to overstate the vastly different situations that Simmons and Ingram are coming out of. Ingram is coming from a situation where his coach is Coach K, one of the greatest basketball coaches to ever live. He was surrounded by other offensive threats, and wasn’t even the team’s leading scorer. I was a little surprised, looking at the advanced metrics (go ahead TCB, have at me) via sports reference, to see that Ingram was 2nd on the team in win shares, 3rd in BPM among guys who got 1000 minutes, 2nd among such players in PER, and and second in useage. While he may have been the team’s best-known offensive weapon, he certainly wasn’t carrying them. That’s why Duke was able to coast to wins even when Ingram played horribly. They beat Georgia Tech by 9 with Ingram going 3/15 from the floor. They beat eventual national runner-up North Carolina with Ingram shooting 7/21. Replace Ingram with an average NCAA player at his position, and Duke still probably wins 22 or 23 games easily enough of the 25 they actually won.

Then Look at Simmons. He was coached by Johnny Jones, a mediocre-to-bad coach with a 57% all-time winning percentage who literally only got hired at LSU because he’s an alum. His team was horrible. Simmons had double the win shares of anyone else on the roster, and the disparity was even bigger on defensive win shares, amazingly. He had the highest PER of any player who got decent playing time by so much that it’s crazy, and had the highest useage by a mile. He had nobody to pick him up. If Simmons had an off night, LSU lost. LSU lost to College of Charleston (a 17-14 minor conference team) by 12 because Simmons played poorly. Replace Simmons with an average-level NCAA forward, and LSU probably goes from 19-14 to 12-21. If not worse. He was their whole team.

I think Simmons could really take his game up a notch if surrounded by a high level of supporting talent for once and coaches who hopefully know what they’re doing.'

Reminds me of Myles Turner a bit -- underrated because he played for a questionable coach on a team that wasn't competitive.

[Agnostifarian]

I hear Ben Simmons will be in the next Space Jam movie.

[dangerussimmons]

Weren't jimmy and kawai bad shooters out of college?

[Duke4life831]

Weren't jimmy and kawai bad shooters out of college?

The thing with Jimmy and Kawhi is they at least showed a jumper in college. Kawhi averaged like 2.5 three point attempts per game in college and Jimmy averaged like 1 attempt per game. With Simmons he won't even attempt jumpers and that's what scares people. If he had solid form but with a low percentage I don't think as many people would be as worried. But he attempted so little and his form was all over the place, that's the red flag. I know there have been many articles and I agree with them that he's shooting with his wrong hand. You watch the floaters and stuff he does with his right hand, his right hand seems to have much better touch than his left. He's going to improve his shooting no doubt, he can flat out crush it and become the next Kidd or Kawhi, or he can have just small improvements. I think his jumper is going to be in the level of like a Josh Mcroberts

[Bensational]

I've got a hunch that Simmons falls somewhere between Lamar Odom and Evan Turner to start his career.

Where he goes from there, I've got no idea. I'd imagine that if his jumper is being flagged as such a major concern, it's the first thing he's going to focus on. Then he's gonna hit a wall as he learns the NBA game as a playmaker and ball handler, and adapts to the speed of the game.

His sophomore season he should look a lot more comfortable with an understanding of the NBA game, and 2 offseasons of hard work on his jump shot and range. Hopefully he gets a defensive minded coach who can encourage him to work hard on that front.

I'm an Aussie, so I want this kid to be great to give us a chance in the Olympics and WCs in the future.

[Nitroglycerin]

I hope the Suns gets Simmons

[DK-All Day]

I hope the Suns gets Simmons

I hope the Celtics get him.

[LakersSquad]

I think Simmons may be headed to LA

[TKainZero]

Will Philly take another PF?

Lakers will gladly take whoever Philly passes on

[RollingWave]

Ok, the real question we need to ask is this.

Is there a plausible chance Simmons makes a first team all NBA ?

If you think the answer is no (and I lean that way. don't see how he score enough to be in that discussion unless he gets Magic level assist which seems rather unlikely.), then fit starts to become a real major issue.

[76ciology]

I know the difference is big but I think both LBJ and Simmons play the same way.

LeBron is way quicker and stronger with the ball and is a much better shooter on offense. While LeBron's freakish athleticism allows him to be a much better defender/shotblocker than Simmons.

Is that it?

[rick_21]

I play the same way as Lebron as well.

Except that Lebron is taller, quicker, stronger with the ball, a freakish athlete, much better shooter and much better defender/shotblocker than I am.

But yeah, I play the same way, really. I get the ball and try to either put it in the deck, or pass it to a teammate, I pick an opponent when my team doesn't have the ball...basketball stuff, you know.

[rzzzzz]

i don't think the Giannis experiment is lost on Brett. Simmons athleticism offers some fair flexibility. but Ingram had a terrific interview with them at the combine.

[HotelVitale]

Weren't jimmy and kawai bad shooters out of college?

Jimmy Butler was a career 51/38/78 shooter in college, so throw that one out. As for Kawhi: yes, he got much better much quicker but he's such an unusual and uncharacteristic example that it's not really useful. It's like looking at Wade Baldwin and saying, didn't Steve Nash learn to have impeccable timing and make incredible pocket passes and one-legged running jumpers?