Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5

[Kanyewest]

Who cares what we paid for our coach? Not like it counts against salary cap

Given that the Wizards have typically traded their second round picks for cash, it could be something to care about if the Wizards do it again.

[LyricalRico]

Who cares what we paid for our coach? Not like it counts against salary cap

Given that the Wizards have typically traded their second round picks for cash, it could be something to care about if the Wizards do it again.

Didn't you see the headline? Ted can get over $3M for 2nds now, so we should be good.

[TheSecretWeapon]

Who cares what we paid for our coach? Not like it counts against salary cap

Given that the Wizards have typically traded their second round picks for cash, it could be something to care about if the Wizards do it again.

Didn't you see the headline? Ted can get over $3M for 2nds now, so we should be good.

I'd imagine Leonsis approves things like the sale of a 2nd round pick, but those sales are initiated by the basketball operations folks -- meaning Grunfeld. They view it as a win-win for them: they don't value 2nd round picks, and they think it's an easy way to pick up some extra money in their operating budget.

[LyricalRico]

Indy's solution to not enough scoring under Vogel...is...Nate McMillan?

[payitforward]

Given that the Wizards have typically traded their second round picks for cash, it could be something to care about if the Wizards do it again.

Didn't you see the headline? Ted can get over $3M for 2nds now, so we should be good.

I'd imagine Leonsis approves things like the sale of a 2nd round pick, but those sales are initiated by the basketball operations folks -- meaning Grunfeld. They view it as a win-win for them: they don't value 2nd round picks, and they think it's an easy way to pick up some extra money in their operating budget.

It's difficult to know how deeply blindered or stuck our FO is, but by now it may be getting hard, even for that crew, to remain blind to the value of R2 picks.

[LyricalRico]

Indy's solution to not enough scoring under Vogel...is...Nate McMillan?

As I was saying...

Here are how McMillan’s squads ranked in pace: 24th, 27th, 15th, 27th, 28th, 29th, 29th, 30th, 30th, and 30th.

Nate McMillan’s teams have been sloooooooooow.

No really.

Since 2001, there have been 95 coaches to coach an NBA team for at least one full season. (Partial seasons are not considered here.) Nate ranks 92nd in terms of pace. The only teams that have played slower have been Kevin O’Neill’s Raptors, Michael Curry’s Pistons, and Mike Fratello’s Grizzlies.

So they're not going to score more points. And they probably won't be better defensively, since apparently the slow pace is what led to the myth that he's a great defensive coach:

In McMillan’s 10 full seasons as an NBA head coach, here are how a few of his squads ranked in defensive rating: 17th, 17th, 27th, 27th, 28th, 26th, 17th, 13th, 15th, 14th, per Basketball-Reference.

<snip>

It’s likely the reason that people think his teams played good defense is because they played slowly.

Final analysis:

Hiring Nate McMillan pretty much shows that Larry Bird had no plan other than “I’m done with Frank Vogel."

— Jared Wade (@8pts9secs)

http://8points9seconds.com/2016/05/16/nate-mcmillan-indiana-pacers-coach-vogel-bird/

[TheSecretWeapon]

Indy's solution to not enough scoring under Vogel...is...Nate McMillan?

As I was saying...

Here are how McMillan’s squads ranked in pace: 24th, 27th, 15th, 27th, 28th, 29th, 29th, 30th, 30th, and 30th.

Nate McMillan’s teams have been sloooooooooow.

No really.

Since 2001, there have been 95 coaches to coach an NBA team for at least one full season. (Partial seasons are not considered here.) Nate ranks 92nd in terms of pace. The only teams that have played slower have been Kevin O’Neill’s Raptors, Michael Curry’s Pistons, and Mike Fratello’s Grizzlies.

So they're not going to score more points. And they probably won't be better defensively, since apparently the slow pace is what led to the myth that he's a great defensive coach:

In McMillan’s 10 full seasons as an NBA head coach, here are how a few of his squads ranked in defensive rating: 17th, 17th, 27th, 27th, 28th, 26th, 17th, 13th, 15th, 14th, per Basketball-Reference.

<snip>

It’s likely the reason that people think his teams played good defense is because they played slowly.

Final analysis:

Hiring Nate McMillan pretty much shows that Larry Bird had no plan other than “I’m done with Frank Vogel."

— Jared Wade (@8pts9secs)

http://8points9seconds.com/2016/05/16/nate-mcmillan-indiana-pacers-coach-vogel-bird/

Maybe 7-8 years back, I talked with some folks in Indy's front office about establishing an analytics department. Apparently, Donnie Walsh handed a stack of articles he'd read to an intern, and something I wrote just happened to be near the top. They were offering preposterously low financial terms, and I think they managed to persuade Kevin Pelton to do some part-time consulting work for them for a couple years. Then Walsh left and Pelton went to ESPN, and I don't think they pay much attention to statistical analysis. Which is a long way of (perhaps) explaining why the Pacers might fire Vogel for McMillan and think they're getting an upgrade.

That said, my sense of McMillan is that he's a decent coach -- average, but closer to the middle than a guy like Wittman who was on the low side of the average range. I thought Vogel did a really good job with the roster he was given.

[dckingsfan]

So, the Sixers are likely to have Simmons, Landry, Holmes, Saric, Noel, Okafor & Embiid - I would call that a logjam. Maybe they take Ingram?

Boston is equally overloaded in the FC. Johnson, Sullinger, Zeller, Olynyk, Jerebko - although they have to make a decision on Sullinger & Zeller.

Then you have Durant.

And both have multiple picks. I think this could be a very interesting off-season. Maybe not from a Wiz perspective but certainly from a league perspective.

[thricethefun]

So, the Sixers are likely to have Simmons, Landry, Holmes, Saric, Noel, Okafor & Embiid - I would call that a logjam. Maybe they take Ingram?

Boston is equally overloaded in the FC. Johnson, Sullinger, Zeller, Olynyk, Jerebko - although they have to make a decision on Sullinger & Zeller.

Then you have Durant.

And both have multiple picks. I think this could be a very interesting off-season. Maybe not from a Wiz perspective but certainly from a league perspective.

I think Philly for sure trades one of Okafor or Noel this summer. I wouldn't mind trading Otto for a guy like Okafor then signing Batum.

[Ruzious]

So, the Sixers are likely to have Simmons, Landry, Holmes, Saric, Noel, Okafor & Embiid - I would call that a logjam. Maybe they take Ingram?

Boston is equally overloaded in the FC. Johnson, Sullinger, Zeller, Olynyk, Jerebko - although they have to make a decision on Sullinger & Zeller.

Then you have Durant.

And both have multiple picks. I think this could be a very interesting off-season. Maybe not from a Wiz perspective but certainly from a league perspective.

I think Philly goes Ingram - because the difference in talent isn't enough to trump the difference in need. It would make some sense for Philly to trade for Beal and sign a free agent PG.

In a typical draft, Boston has a great setup, but for this draft? Would you bank on Bender? If they don't make any trades, I could see this draft being a disaster for them.

[LyricalRico]

Whoa, Hornacek to NYK. Didn't expect that.

Also, supposedly looking like D'Antoni in Houston. IMO that would close the door on Howard returning, and mean that they would finally have to get a PG. Was D'Antoni the coach when Lin blew up in NY? Or maybe even going after a guy like Tony Parker if the Spurs get Conley.

[fishercob]

While there is still plenty not to like about the OKC's Harden trade, it looks better ever day because Steven Adams is a beast. He's twenty two, so you have to figure he's going to improve significantly over the next several years.

[dckingsfan]

So, the Sixers are likely to have Simmons, Landry, Holmes, Saric, Noel, Okafor & Embiid - I would call that a logjam. Maybe they take Ingram?

Boston is equally overloaded in the FC. Johnson, Sullinger, Zeller, Olynyk, Jerebko - although they have to make a decision on Sullinger & Zeller.

Then you have Durant.

And both have multiple picks. I think this could be a very interesting off-season. Maybe not from a Wiz perspective but certainly from a league perspective.

I think Philly goes Ingram - because the difference in talent isn't enough to trump the difference in need. It would make some sense for Philly to trade for Beal and sign a free agent PG.

Actually, that would make lots of sense. Pickup Ingram, Beal and a FA PG. Trade one of your logjam FC players to Washington. They might not be a playoff team next year - but the year after they would be fine.

[nuposse04]

The WT article on Howard and the rockets is kind of amusing. I find it odd a gm is trying to play coach in telling Howard what to do. That teams lack of accountability I would guess starts with Morey, he seems entrenched in believing he absolutely knows better then everyone else. He is a great asset manager and knows how to find good value... But I question his team building acumen since there doesn't seem to be much leadership throughout on his roster... Like chemistry is an afterthought.

Love the fact they use analytics well, but you might want to work on your people skills in order to build a sustainable contender. Of course we seem to be devoid of both those qualities here in DC :/

[Ruzious]

So, the Sixers are likely to have Simmons, Landry, Holmes, Saric, Noel, Okafor & Embiid - I would call that a logjam. Maybe they take Ingram?

Boston is equally overloaded in the FC. Johnson, Sullinger, Zeller, Olynyk, Jerebko - although they have to make a decision on Sullinger & Zeller.

Then you have Durant.

And both have multiple picks. I think this could be a very interesting off-season. Maybe not from a Wiz perspective but certainly from a league perspective.

I think Philly goes Ingram - because the difference in talent isn't enough to trump the difference in need. It would make some sense for Philly to trade for Beal and sign a free agent PG.

Actually, that would make lots of sense. Pickup Ingram, Beal and a FA PG. Trade one of your logjam FC players to Washington. They might not be a playoff team next year - but the year after they would be fine.

I think so. I'd be fine with getting Noel for Beal. Granted, Noel likely would not fit well with Gortat, but maybe we should be looking to trade Gortat before he loses his trade value.

[closg00]

I see that Noel is on the block, I guarantee you that he has way more trade value than Porter, it will be interesting to see which one of their bigs is going to be traded and what they receive in return.

[LyricalRico]

I see that Noel is on the block, I guarantee you that he has way more trade value than Porter, it will be interesting to see which one of their bigs is going to be traded and what they receive in return.

Another twist in the Philly big man carousel:

The Sixers are shopping Okafor and center Nerlens Noel to other NBA teams. The franchise is expected to trade the player who brings them a better deal.

Sources have said that the team would prefer to trade Okafor. The Sixers expect to get equal value in return, but it could be hard to do that when every team knows they are looking to unload the big man.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20160613_Okafor__recovering_from_knee_surgery__says_he_s_ready_to_return_to_court.html

[LyricalRico]

Could be some serious wheeling/dealing at the top of the draft:

"[I'm] hearing that No. 3 pick overall is the one that they are really shopping," said CSN's Celtics Insider A. Sherrod Blakely, "trying to be as aggressive as possible in trying to move that pick, because they want to get a difference-making, impact player right now. And they believe using that No. 3 pick, and maybe some other players and/or picks, might be the best way to [make] that happen."

And who are they targeting in return?

"The guys that they want are the guys that everybody wants," said Blakely. "We're talking about [Kevin] Durant, we're talking about Jimmy Butler, those type of players. And those guys are going to be at the top of their wish list until those guys say, 'We don't want to come to Boston.' "

http://www.csnne.com/node/553266

...and...

The Minnesota Timberwolves are prepared to part with the No. 5 overall pick in this month's draft, as the centerpiece of a trade package, if they can use it to construct a deal for Chicago Bulls star swingman Jimmy Butler, according to league sources.

Sources told ESPN.com that the Wolves, in these early days of the Tom Thibodeau era, have made it known to the Bulls that they are strongly interested in dealing for Butler should Chicago elect to make him available.

The Bulls are not believed to be actively looking to move their All-Star swingman ‎but have been listening to pitches for Butler, sources said.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/16185672/minnesota-timberwolves-interested-trading-jimmy-butler-chicago-bulls

[LyricalRico]

More on Philly's draft plans:

With the amount of rumors and reporting that indicate the Sixers are leaning toward taking LSU’s Ben Simmons with the No. 1 pick, the next question is whether Bryan Colangelo would try to address the roster’s big man glut by making a trade for a guard in the draft.

Bleacher Report’s Ric Bucher believes there is a specific target in mind in the oft-speculated “Jahlil Okafor to Boston” scenario.

“While the Philadelphia 76ers are expected to make Simmons the No. 1 pick, they are looking to potentially move Jahlil Okafor for the No. 3 pick in order to be able to take [Providence point guard] Kris Dunn,” Bucher said.

<snip>

On the last edition of Sixers Beat, I asked Derek Bodner for a guess about this exact scenario (trade for 3, draft Dunn) and he estimated there was more than a 50 percent chance it happens.

http://www.phillyvoice.com/report-nba-draft-rumors-sixers-looking-make-draft-trade-providences-kris-dunn/

A core of Noel/Simmons/Dunn is much more balanced than what they have now, but they would need to balance that with wings that can really shoot IMO. Maybe Beal? But If they're keeping Noel, that takes away the guy I'd be most interested in getting back.

[verbal8]

A core of Noel/Simmons/Dunn is much more balanced than what they have now, but they would need to balance that with wings that can really shoot IMO. Maybe Beal? But If they're keeping Noel, that takes away the guy I'd be most interested in getting back.

I doubt the Sixers would deal Noel to S&T for Beal. I think it would be more likely that they offer the 24th or 26th pick.