"How has Ryan McDonough fared in the NBA Draft?" A comparison

[8on]

have you seen the poll floating around? it asks us to grade Ryan McDonough's draft performance over the past three drafts.

most people gave him a B. i don't think that's fair, but just to be sure, i decided to make a list of the players that were either drafted by a franchise, or traded for within a year of being drafted by a different franchise. here are the top 5 draft histories, and it should be pretty hard to argue any of these


#1 - Minnesota Timberwolves: Zach LaVine, Tyus Jones, Andrew Wiggins, Karl-Anthony Towns, Adreian Payne, Shabazz Muhammad, Gorgui Dieng

When I put this list together, I really couldn't believe it. LaVine.....AND Gorgui.....AND Towns.....AND Bazz? People used to say Flip wasn't a great drafter. Well, that certainly wasn't true in recent years. The fact that Muhammad AND Dieng were stolen from Utah in the same year.....topped off by the fact that they gave up Trey Burke to get Shabazz.....now that was one of the great draft day trades of the last ten years. Dang.


#2 - Phoenix Suns: Archie Goodwin, Alex Len, T.J. Warren, Devin Booker, (Bogdan Bogdanovic)

Note: I'm giving Milwaukee credit for Tyler Ennis, since we rarely used him.

First, I want to point out that Goodwin and Bogdanovic are both bottom 10 first round picks. Honestly, it's difficult for me to compare Goodwin to anyone else, and I don't know that I wouldn't rather have Tyler Ennis, but whatever. Goodwin is still moderately interesting, given his age. Bogdanovic is an absolute stud in Europe, and......well, so was Tiago Splitter. We'll see, but those are two of the best 20-60 picks of the last three years.

As for everybody else, it took DeAndre Jordan until his 6th season to become the DeAndre Jordan we know today. It took Tyson five or six seasons, too. The learning curve for Alex should really be a lot bigger than people are making it out to be. Granted, he's not Rudy Gobert by this point, but Rudy has a very defined ceiling. Alex doesn't. I'm grateful for that. Give him time.

And as for Mr. Devin Booker, well, there isn't a player with more potential that you can find, save for Andrew Wiggins. I don't know where Wiggins is headed, exactly, although I think he's got two more levels to upgrade. Find me a player that you still think has superstar potential that was drafted in the last three years and isn't named Towns, Wiggins, Booker or Porzingis, and I'll buy you a box of Fig Newtons in the flavor of your choice. Seriously.

You could make the argument for #3 or #4 here, but I won't.


#3 - Denver Nuggets: Jusuf Nurkic, Gary Harris, Nikola Jokic, Emmanuel Mudiay

I'm pretty impressed by this. Nurkic and Jokic are about as good a duo of young centers as you could ask for. Harris is pretty interesting, and Mudiay has a lot of room to grow into his Jason Kidd-type potential.


#4 - Portland Trail Blazers: Allen Crabbe, C.J. McCollum

When you hit big on 2 out of 2 first round picks, less suddenly transforms into more.


#5 - Milwaukee Bucks: Giannis Antetokounmpo, Jabari Parker, Tyler Ennis

Why is Milwaukee 5th, you ask? Great question. The Freak is the headliner here. That's why. It shouldn't be this way. Jabari should be the headliner. He should be the next James Worthy, but he's out of place in Milwaukee, and they're not willing to admit that. Maybe he will be great, but we won't know for a while, because he'll never be the alpha in Milwaukee. That's Freak's role. Or, maybe it is Jabari's role. Who knows? All I can say is that they really shouldn't be playing together, but they are. Maybe - just maybe - I would've gone with Randle here. Or, rolled the die on Embiid. Who knows? All I know is that Jabari Parker was the 2nd overall pick, and he hasn't really played like it.

I'm giving Milwaukee credit for Ennis, even though we drafted him. He hasn't played enough (in what is essentially his rookie year) to render any sort of verdict on his draft outcome.



Disagree with the order of the five if you want. Who am I missing?

Utah

Nope. Sure, Gobert and Rodney Hood are great, but they also drafted Trey Burke and Dante Exum. Heard from them lately? Neither have I. If McD drafted Burke OR Exum, you'd be calling for his head on a silver platter.


Philadelphia

Embiid. I hope he'll pan out, but who knows?


Los Angeles Lakers?!?!?

Randle, Clarkson, Russell, Nance Jr. Not bad.....but not great, by any stretch. By my count, Phoenix's lottery picks have outperformed the Lakers' lottery picks.


Orlando

Oladipo, Napier, A. Gordon, Hezonja, Payton. They don't deserve top 5 status, do they? I don't think so.


Oklahoma City Thunder

Sam Presti, you ol' stick in the mud. Andre Roberson, Steven Adams, Mitch McGary and Cameron Payne. Presti is the best drafter in the NBA, and he has been since he drafted Durant, Westbrook and Harden back-to-back-to-back. If all four of them turn out to have stud potential, I can easily move the Thunder up the charts. For now, I have them 6th.


Good teams.

They don't come 'round much anymore.



Conclusion: Has Ryan McDonough drafted well?

As well as anyone could have without a pair of #1 picks (which we could've had, but oh well. McD definitely made the most of what he had).

[Mulhollanddrive]

I like the Warren and Booker picks alot.

But there's a big difference between winning drafts / trades / FA (which we seem to do alot of) and building an actual contender (which we seem to do not alot of).

[RaisingArizona]

This is what gives me hope this offseason. I wish he'd do better in FA (I know, not a lack of effort, just results) and trades have been hit or miss as of late.

[8on]

I like the Warren and Booker picks alot.

But there's a big difference between winning drafts / trades / FA (which we seem to do alot of) and building an actual contender (which we seem to do not alot of).

when Golden State is leading the pack, who are the actual contenders? Cleveland, Oklahoma City, San Antonio, ? That's it. When we find a superstar talent (and I know he's lurking around here somewhere), we can talk actual contenders. Until then, I have no problem getting back to "pretty good."

[bwgood77]

I think Ryan has drafted pretty well, however, I think much of the time his draft record is a bit overrated. Portland (don't forget Lillard who many were surprised they picked when they traded for that pick from Brooklyn), Minnesota (not even counting Wiggins), and also outside of no brainer Towns has been good, as has Denver and Utah.

I like Len ok, but by no means can I say he nailed the pick.

Warren - I like this pick a lot.

Booker - nailed it.

Goodwin - not sure who was behind him, but he wasn't a good pick by any means.

Ennis - Not a good pick at all...major blunder

Bogdan - looks good but who knows....people said Weems was one of the best players in Europe.

Still no picks out of nowhere late like Gobert or the bigs Denver got.

If he can pull one of those out of the 2nd round or even late first, THAN I will consider him an elite drafter.

Most of his lotto picks were basically picks right around where they were mocked. Many here would have made the same picks, or in some people's minds, better ones (like Noel over Len, even though I'm fine with Len in this spot).

[darealjuice]

I think Ryan has drafted pretty well, however, I think much of the time his draft record is a bit overrated. Portland (don't forget Lillard who many were surprised they picked when they traded for that pick from Brooklyn), Minnesota (not even counting Wiggins), and also outside of no brainer Towns has been good, as has Denver and Utah.

I like Len ok, but by no means can I say he nailed the pick.

Warren - I like this pick a lot.

Booker - nailed it.

Goodwin - not sure who was behind him, but he wasn't a good pick by any means.

Ennis - Not a good pick at all...major blunder

Bogdan - looks good but who knows....people said Weems was one of the best players in Europe.

Still no picks out of nowhere late like Gobert or the bigs Denver got.

If he can pull one of those out of the 2nd round or even late first, THAN I will consider him an elite drafter.

Most of his lotto picks were basically picks right around where they were mocked. Many here would have made the same picks, or in some people's minds, better ones (like Noel over Len, even though I'm fine with Len in this spot).

The 2012 Draft talent wasn't that good, but I really hated the Alex Len pick, although Zeller went before him and I would have hated him even more. He's been okay for us now, but passing on an injured Nerlens Noel for a slightly less injured Alex Len was boneheaded. I don't give him a pass for it, but it was definitely a rookie mistake for McD on his first pick.

As far as Archie Goodwin goes, the only player that is even worth mentioning that was drafted after him is Allen Crabbe, so you can't really expect a home run when there's not even a ball being thrown. I don't mind him picking the most athletic, physically gifted athlete available there and hoping we can turn him into a basketball player.

I loved the TJ Warren pick, he was my favorite player available there after LaVine got picked, but man I hated the Tyler Ennis pick. I was gunning for Rodney Hood with the Ennis pick, but outside of him the rest of the talent picked between Ennis and Bogdanovic aren't anything worth saying we really missed out on them, so I don't hold it against McD too much.

Bogdanovic hasn't played for us, but besides Mirotic he's the only player to win the Rising Star 2 times and he's one of the young focal points for a team that is fighting for the Euroleague title tomorrow, so I like the pick even if he could turn into just a role player for us. I don't expect him to come in and light the NBA on fire or anything, but he should be able to at least be a good role player in the NBA.

And then he obviously nailed the Booker pick, considering he has turned out to be at least a top 5 player in that draft so far despite being a late lottery pick.

[bwgood77]

I think Ryan has drafted pretty well, however, I think much of the time his draft record is a bit overrated. Portland (don't forget Lillard who many were surprised they picked when they traded for that pick from Brooklyn), Minnesota (not even counting Wiggins), and also outside of no brainer Towns has been good, as has Denver and Utah.

I like Len ok, but by no means can I say he nailed the pick.

Warren - I like this pick a lot.

Booker - nailed it.

Goodwin - not sure who was behind him, but he wasn't a good pick by any means.

Ennis - Not a good pick at all...major blunder

Bogdan - looks good but who knows....people said Weems was one of the best players in Europe.

Still no picks out of nowhere late like Gobert or the bigs Denver got.

If he can pull one of those out of the 2nd round or even late first, THAN I will consider him an elite drafter.

Most of his lotto picks were basically picks right around where they were mocked. Many here would have made the same picks, or in some people's minds, better ones (like Noel over Len, even though I'm fine with Len in this spot).

The 2012 Draft talent wasn't that good, but I really hated the Alex Len pick, although Zeller went before him and I would have hated him even more. He's been okay for us now, but passing on an injured Nerlens Noel for a slightly less injured Alex Len was boneheaded. I don't give him a pass for it, but it was definitely a rookie mistake for McD on his first pick.

As far as Archie Goodwin goes, the only player that is even worth mentioning that was drafted after him is Allen Crabbe, so you can't really expect a home run when there's not even a ball being thrown. I don't mind him picking the most athletic, physically gifted athlete available there and hoping we can turn him into a basketball player.

I loved the TJ Warren pick, he was my favorite player available there after LaVine got picked, but man I hated the Tyler Ennis pick. I was gunning for Rodney Hood with the Ennis pick, but outside of him the rest of the talent picked between Ennis and Bogdanovic aren't anything worth saying we really missed out on them, so I don't hold it against McD too much.

Bogdanovic hasn't played for us, but besides Mirotic he's the only player to win the Rising Star 2 times and he's one of the young focal points for a team that is fighting for the Euroleague title tomorrow, so I like the pick even if he could turn into just a role player for us. I don't expect him to come in and light the NBA on fire or anything, but he should be able to at least be a good role player in the NBA.

And then he obviously nailed the Booker pick, considering he has turned out to be at least a top 5 player in that draft so far despite being a late lottery pick.

Oh yeah, I LOVED Allen Crabbe, so that's who I probably wanted. Someone in the draft forum And1'd a post recently from years ago after that draft asking who was the most underrated prospect in that draft and I had named him, however, I think the And1 was a joke, because it was about 7-8 months ago.

Like you, I wanted Rodney Hood, or possibly even Gary Harris, and we had brought in Hood 2-3 times so I was sure we would take him.

I trust him though, and the non Noel pick may have had to do with the medical team, and I still have hopes for Len. Would much rather have Crabbe and Hood than Goodwin and Ennis though.

[darealjuice]

I think Ryan has drafted pretty well, however, I think much of the time his draft record is a bit overrated. Portland (don't forget Lillard who many were surprised they picked when they traded for that pick from Brooklyn), Minnesota (not even counting Wiggins), and also outside of no brainer Towns has been good, as has Denver and Utah.

I like Len ok, but by no means can I say he nailed the pick.

Warren - I like this pick a lot.

Booker - nailed it.

Goodwin - not sure who was behind him, but he wasn't a good pick by any means.

Ennis - Not a good pick at all...major blunder

Bogdan - looks good but who knows....people said Weems was one of the best players in Europe.

Still no picks out of nowhere late like Gobert or the bigs Denver got.

If he can pull one of those out of the 2nd round or even late first, THAN I will consider him an elite drafter.

Most of his lotto picks were basically picks right around where they were mocked. Many here would have made the same picks, or in some people's minds, better ones (like Noel over Len, even though I'm fine with Len in this spot).

The 2012 Draft talent wasn't that good, but I really hated the Alex Len pick, although Zeller went before him and I would have hated him even more. He's been okay for us now, but passing on an injured Nerlens Noel for a slightly less injured Alex Len was boneheaded. I don't give him a pass for it, but it was definitely a rookie mistake for McD on his first pick.

As far as Archie Goodwin goes, the only player that is even worth mentioning that was drafted after him is Allen Crabbe, so you can't really expect a home run when there's not even a ball being thrown. I don't mind him picking the most athletic, physically gifted athlete available there and hoping we can turn him into a basketball player.

I loved the TJ Warren pick, he was my favorite player available there after LaVine got picked, but man I hated the Tyler Ennis pick. I was gunning for Rodney Hood with the Ennis pick, but outside of him the rest of the talent picked between Ennis and Bogdanovic aren't anything worth saying we really missed out on them, so I don't hold it against McD too much.

Bogdanovic hasn't played for us, but besides Mirotic he's the only player to win the Rising Star 2 times and he's one of the young focal points for a team that is fighting for the Euroleague title tomorrow, so I like the pick even if he could turn into just a role player for us. I don't expect him to come in and light the NBA on fire or anything, but he should be able to at least be a good role player in the NBA.

And then he obviously nailed the Booker pick, considering he has turned out to be at least a top 5 player in that draft so far despite being a late lottery pick.

Oh yeah, I LOVED Allen Crabbe, so that's who I probably wanted. Someone in the draft forum And1'd a post recently from years ago after that draft asking who was the most underrated prospect in that draft and I had named him, however, I think the And1 was a joke, because it was about 7-8 months ago.

Like you, I wanted Rodney Hood, or possibly even Gary Harris, and we had brought in Hood 2-3 times so I was sure we would take him.

I trust him though, and the non Noel pick may have had to do with the medical team, and I still have hopes for Len. Would much rather have Crabbe and Hood than Goodwin and Ennis though.

Yeah I thought I read something before about how the medical team wouldn't sign off on Noel's ACL if I remember correctly.

I agree though, I'd much rather have Crabbe and Hood over Goodwin and Ennis. I'd even be happy with Goodwin and Hood to be honest. It's all good though, neither of them would make us significantly better right now and I trust that McDonough will make the right choice wherever we end up in this draft now that he has a couple drafts under his belt.

[8on]

Crabbe went 31st, Goodwin 28th.

Sure, maybe Crabbe will get the Wes Matthews treatment in four years, but we can court him then. Not the player we absolutely need

[carey]

I can't see giving the Pups credit for Wiggins who came in a trade after the draft or KAT (duh) when they won the #1 pick. Give the LaVine and Dieng. They have done alright.

[8on]

Well, I thought it should've been Jahlil Okafor. or it could've been. Minnesota could've messed that up, but they really, really didn't.

[Zelaznyrules]

I hated the Len pick but I would have hated the Noel pick even more after hearing all the comments about his knees during the draft evals. Keep in mind it wasn't just his injury at the time that he was dealing with, it was concern by the medical people about Noel's knees a few years down the road so he still has that in front of him.

Ennis wasn't really a bad pick but he wasn't a great fit for us and then he was given almost no chance to develop or succeed - that's on Jeff not Ryan IMO. But Booker is the jewel of his draft picks, assuming he develops into the killer most of us think he can be, all the other picks could be wasted efforts and it would still be a great run to this point.

[saintEscaton]

Booker just barely makes up for whiffing on Len, a stud in the making but don't think he will become the surefire franchise player some here think .Warren is ideally a modern day Ceballos, an efficient low maintenance microwave scorer who's game is a little antiquated. McD doesn't really have a trademark drafting style that defies conventioanl wisdom, his one reach was failure and his best picks were slotted to go where they were. Our overseas scouting hasn't unearthed any l late round diamonds in the rough and he has neglected addressing the 4. At the end of the day he is hanging his crown on two unathletic wings who's lack of measurable limits their upside rendering them liabilities defensively even if they develop instincts/try their hardest. Utah/Milwaukeee are definitely ahead of us, we are just outside the Top 5 IMO

[Damkac]

If that list is grading GM's draft skills then KAT, Wiggins and Parker shouldn't really be counted as everyone would pick them with that picks.
I don't think McD could make much better with the pick he had. TJ and Book was great choices. Archie was low floor/high ceiling prospect who didn't succeed. Ennis was probably drafted for trade that didn't happened. Len needs more time before we can judge him. Bigs don't play great for their first year unless they are HOF bigs. Playing on bad team don't helps. I wonder how would Len looks if he was on OKC instead of Adams. I'm sure his % would go up significantly.

[saintEscaton]

If that list is grading GM's draft skills then KAT, Wiggins and Parker shouldn't really be counted as everyone would pick them with that picks.
I don't think McD could make much better with the pick he had. TJ and Book was great choices. Archie was low floor/high ceiling prospect who didn't succeed. Ennis was probably drafted for trade that didn't happened. Len needs more time before we can judge him. Bigs don't play great for their first year unless they are HOF bigs. Playing on bad team don't helps. I wonder how would Len looks if he was on OKC instead of Adams. I'm sure his % would go up significantly.

I bet it wouldn't, doubt Len even cracks the rotation because he wouldn't be able to do what they ask of him. He has no touch around the rim whatseover and can't play away from the basket either. Adams is a superb finisher and enforcer who converted 70% of his attempts against the Spurs

[rsavaj]

Ennis is the only pick that made me go "wtf"

Len and Archie haven't been great but they weren't horrible picks at the time

[8on]

There were 20 first round whiffs in 2013. At least 15 guys have contributed next to nothing. Len is one of the top 10 players in the draft. About right for the 5th overall pick.....i mean, what are you gonna do when the whole draft seems to suck, and then proves to be as terrible as it was?

[saintEscaton]

There were 20 first round whiffs in 2013. At least 15 guys have contributed next to nothing. Len is one of the top 10 players in the draft. About right for the 5th overall pick.....i mean, what are you gonna do when the whole draft seems to suck, and then proves to be as terrible as it was?

Literally every center who went after Len would be taken before him in a re-draft....

[8on]

actually, although Alex hasn't performed as well as Gobert, i wouldn't even take Gobert over Len. Len has way more potential. we're at Gobert's ceiling, and the same goes for Dieng. maybe not so much with Noel, Plumlee, and Adams, but i'll be very surprised if Noel or Plumlee are ever All-Stars, and 5x more surprised if Adams ever makes the team.

the learning curve for centers is the largest in the league. DeAndre Jordan wasn't DeAndre Jordan for six years. we have to give Alex more time. not everybody is Shaq or Moses, but Vlade Divac? i could see that

[batsmasher]

Ennis is the only pick that made me go "wtf"

My initial thoughts were "Omg we're getting Brazilian KD".