Andre Drummond head-to-head with prime Bob Lanier

[joedumars1]

WTF you talking about guys? Players now are stronger, faster and skiller than old times. You can keep your child dreams about "every last time was better" and all that s**t, but even being soft, until the 90's there are no physical specimen who can be matchup with Dre (talking about average players).

I mean, all time greats would be great in any era, but when you look at the average player, there are a way more superior level now.

I'll take Hakeem, Bird, Pippen, Jordan & Magic over whatever group you wanna pick fromtoday's NBA dude.

Then I'll pick Shaq, Barkley, Clyde, Reggie & Zeke and still win.

Stronger, faster, more skilled? Soft as toilet paper too! Ain't no one in the league got the will to compete with either 5 I picked

Lanier maybe would be better than Dre, but talking about tough eras is just BS. They were much worse on defense than now, look at the pace and the average scores, even with rules who make more difficult be effective on defense.

Let a team with Smart, KCP/Bradley/Allen, Leonard, Green and DeAndre/Gobert be that physical in contacts like they were in the 90's and I guarantee you a few teams could pass 60 points.

A lot of us could pick a group of 5 dudes that would destroy your D only line up dude.

What has changed in the league today is a lack of determination and a lack of fundamentals!

And without great fundamentals the players of yesteryear have a serious advantage

I have to. Don't tell Steph or Draymond that

[Pharaoh]

WTF you talking about guys? Players now are stronger, faster and skiller than old times. You can keep your child dreams about "every last time was better" and all that s**t, but even being soft, until the 90's there are no physical specimen who can be matchup with Dre (talking about average players).

I mean, all time greats would be great in any era, but when you look at the average player, there are a way more superior level now.

I'll take Hakeem, Bird, Pippen, Jordan & Magic over whatever group you wanna pick fromtoday's NBA dude.

Then I'll pick Shaq, Barkley, Clyde, Reggie & Zeke and still win.

Stronger, faster, more skilled? Soft as toilet paper too! Ain't no one in the league got the will to compete with either 5 I picked

Lanier maybe would be better than Dre, but talking about tough eras is just BS. They were much worse on defense than now, look at the pace and the average scores, even with rules who make more difficult be effective on defense.

Let a team with Smart, KCP/Bradley/Allen, Leonard, Green and DeAndre/Gobert be that physical in contacts like they were in the 90's and I guarantee you a few teams could pass 60 points.

A lot of us could pick a group of 5 dudes that would destroy your D only line up dude.

What has changed in the league today is a lack of determination and a lack of fundamentals!

And without great fundamentals the players of yesteryear have a serious advantage

I have to. Don't tell Steph or Draymond that

Draymond would get over-excited & take himself out if the game like he did when we retired Ben's jersey.

Steph is otherworldly but if you think he's cutting and curling at will back in the 80s or 90s then you obviously haven't watched any games from those eras lately. He'd take a lot of hits!

Now before someone says I think Steph couldn't handle it - thats not what I said! I said he'd take a lot of hits! How he adjusted is open to discussion

[Pharaoh]

When you use lol, you're losing the discussion.

Seems a lot of older dudes agree with me mate - using lol ain't got anything to do with it

Today is much more difficult to defend because the rules are thought to favor the offense, and even with that, there are better defenders right now, just looking stats and watching a full game and not highlights.

Let Tony Allen be that 90's physical and I guarantee you're not going to see a player not named Jordan reaching 30 points in a game.

See, that's where you're misguided. You think allowing Allen or other players of today be more physical will matter! It doesnt work that way.

These guys are used to the soft league - no hand checks, no bumping, no hard fouls. They can't just flick a switch and be accustomed to it! It would take years of development.

Where the guys that were used to a more physical style could dial it back a little more easily. That's the nature of the game in my experience.

Guys that excelled at scoring back then would score MORE today - not less!

The 2000's got Duncan, Kobe, Shaq and LeBron who are Top-10 players ever, and right now we got an alien performing the most efficiency offense we've seen in this league.

One guy in isolation does not make your argument hold up - which was today's Dre would beat Lanier in his prime.

I used eras as an example - not to change the argument but to illustrate points.

If you're that old and you see that basketball in his era, I suggest you to watch some games now. The game has evolved and it's not even a debate, if you let people now defend being physical like in the 80's-90's, you're not going to watch any game, that's for sure. They were tougher, yeah, that's true, but because his physical abilities don't let them to defend properly.

Still talking about averages players. Superstars and rare dominant specimens like Wilt would dominate any era, but no way they would dominate like in their times.

I mean, don't let your kid's memories cloud your judgement, and watch a full game of the 80's. I can give you a lot of games if you want, since I'm a crazy basketball student.

Look at the defensive rotations and the help-side defense... You need to let the good times past my friend.

Nothing you've said changes my opinion.

[In SVG We Trust]

I say Lanier would beat Dre. But because he was a hell of player, not because "oh, players those days got fundamentals, today is a soft league and there are only athletes". It's your argument which is wrong, not the conclusion.

[Pharaoh]

I say Lanier would beat Dre. But because he was a hell of player, not because "oh, players those days got fundamentals, today is a soft league and there are only athletes". It's your argument which is wrong, not the conclusion.

Ummm what?

Players back then were more complete - more fundamentally sound!

Players back then played a more physical style - tougher both physically and mentally

More players back then were more about winning - as opposed to today's league of super friends!

You have not brought a single thing to the table that makes me think any of those 3 points are wrong

[In SVG We Trust]

Take a look at this video https://youtu.be/YM_eCnTNt1Q

[Pharaoh]

Take a look at this video https://youtu.be/YM_eCnTNt1Q

Here is the problem with that video & many others like it (seen plenty of them over the years):

Players back then played the way they did due to the rules of the sport! Taking clips of today's defense and saying "Jordan couldn't drive like he used to because now we play zone" completely disregards the fact that a metric **** tonne of players today have success driving the lane!

It's why teams run PnRs over and over and over again.

It's not like zone eliminated drives! What it has made inefficient is the clear out iso.

Jordan in his prime today would still drive the paint. He'd get fouled a lot. He'd dunk a lot. He'd score a lot.

Look at what Lowry just did vs Miami in the last 2 games of his 2nd round series - you're gonna tell me that a dude like Pippen or Clyde Drexler could not absolutely destroy the amazing zone D played today?

Look at Westbrook, John Wall, Kyrie, Lillard - all the PGs, Harden, PG13, anyone with a good handle and real athleticism - they drive it!

You ain't stopping the dudes from the 80s or 90s with your zone - same way you don't stop the stars today!

You're arguing a fictional POV based on snippets and theories as opposed to fact:

Fact is that in today's league the drive is still what coaches want their guys to do. Do you know why?

[In SVG We Trust]

I think I'm more agree with you than you think. Jordan would dominate this era like a hammer of course. Again, I'm talking about the averages players, not HOF's who obviously would be dominant anywhere in a timeline.

The average player now got better ball-handling skills, is faster, stronger, got more coordination and is better on defense. If you want, I can put a random RS game here of both eras and we can compare and analyze the game. Could be fun for everyone here I think, and is a good exercise about bb knowledge, which I really estimate you got a high IQ about it.

[Pharaoh]

Thanks for the compliment.

I'm time poor unfortunately and couldn't break down an entire game with you.

Happy to compare defensive skills of players from all eras but I believe that's futile for one very important reason:

Coach have their own structures and rules around D - we have very limited knowledge of them.

Watching game after game of every single team will (should) allow fans to work it out but in my experience people tend to get overwhelmed trying to keep track.