Trade Idea Thread 15-16

jojimbo · Post #841 » by **jojimbo** » Sat May 14, 2016 12:48 am

We need to do whatever it takes to sign Fournier, Bazemore, Crabbe, Shumpert or Lee. Is rather us not do anything until we address our SG position.

Post #842 » by **KF10** » Sat May 14, 2016 1:05 am

From what Joerger has said so far, it seems like he will give BMac another go at SG. Hmm, still, I would like the Kings to go after guys like Bazemore, Crabbe, Lee, etc those kinds of players too.

SacKingZZZ · Post #843 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Sat May 14, 2016 2:29 am

I highly doubt this team comes in looking the same as it did last year, and if it does that's a mistake if it's by choice. There are too many options out there to be had, and to that list I would add Solomon Hill. Not a huge fan of Fournier on the team either since if Gay stays, you'll need a limited offensive role type. And if Anderson is the target at PF this summer you really need a super low usage, high impact player.

enderwilson · Post #844 » by **enderwilson** » Sat May 14, 2016 2:59 pm

At this point, I'm all in on moving on from BMac. I wanted to give the kid a chance. For all intents and purposes he seemed to have a high upside. However, despite the lack of development this team provided, he just seems to lack the intellect necessary to figure out how to make his skills work. If we can move him for a player that better fits our needs at the 2 I'm for that.

Also, I'm over Rudy. Way over him at this point. While a strong scoring option for our team, he's too much of a black hole offensively and non-existent the defensive end, and I think this holds us back. The most glaring example of this is how the team drops off the cliff as soon as Cuz goes out. As the second scoring option, Rudy's supposed to be the guy that can carry the team. But he's not a LeBron or Kobe who can carry a team solo, yet that's his game. The four other player on the court with him don't matter, unless one of those players is Cuz. We need a stronger core of team-first players. Gay, IMO, does not register to me as team-first. And from Memphis, to Toronto, to Sac, he never will.

In the same breath, i think a package of Rudy and BMac has value for other teams. We should be trying to sell as high as possible.

Post #845 » by **KF10** » Sat May 14, 2016 3:25 pm

enderwilson wrote:At this point, I'm all in on moving on from BMac. I wanted to give the kid a chance. For all intents and purposes he seemed to have a high upside. However, despite the lack of development this team provided, he just seems to lack the intellect necessary to figure out how to make his skills work. If we can move him for a player that better fits our needs at the 2 I'm for that.

Also, I'm over Rudy. Way over him at this point. While a strong scoring option for our team, he's too much of a black hole offensively and non-existent the defensive end, and I think this holds us back. The most glaring example of this is how the team drops off the cliff as soon as Cuz goes out. As the second scoring option, Rudy's supposed to be the guy that can carry the team. But he's not a LeBron or Kobe who can carry a team solo, yet that's his game. The four other player on the court with him don't matter, unless one of those players is Cuz. We need a stronger core of team-first players. Gay, IMO, does not register to me as team-first. And from Memphis, to Toronto, to Sac, he never will.

In the same breath, i think a package of Rudy and BMac has value for other teams. We should be trying to sell as high as possible.

Yeah, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you.

Rudy has been disappointing whenever Cousins is out but I think we have to remember that the offense is Cousins-centric. When you have a offensive system that relies on one player, and that said player is out, the team will suffer. I think this happens way too many times in the last several seasons here. We don't know how to play without Cousins because we highly depend on him on a nightly-basis. The guy plays a big part in every game situation. That is (big) part of the reason why we suck without him.

That being said, Rudy has a history on not performing as a primary option -- see: Raptors & Grizzlies. So, this isn't all that new for us.

Joerger has some history with Rudy and he mention that Rudy is a great talent. So, I'm not sure if that is all talk or he actually believes that. Again, it seems like Joerger wants to get his hands on BMac and see what he can do with him. I think it will take some convincing from Vlade to move those guys without pissing off the coach, imo.

I hope this is all just conjecture and once Joerger watches them in more detail, he realizes that there are better guys in the market that can fine-tune this team i.e. Crabbe, Bazemore, Lee, Batum, Hill, etc.

Post #846 » by **City of Trees** » Sat May 14, 2016 9:16 pm

Some called me crazy but I was really ok with letting Rudy walk after his last contract was up. He's not a guy who is a high impact player, which is crazy when you see all the talent he possesses. The Kings pay for the talent, but don't always get the talent results.

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bleeds_purple · Post #847 » by **bleeds_purple** » Sun May 15, 2016 3:47 am

I was pretty much against Rudy after seeing him play for a few months. Even looking beyond the deficiencies in his game articulated above, he just doesn't have that fire you want to see. He's like the anti-Draymond.

teerfour+40LG · Post #848 » by **teerfour+40LG** » Sun May 15, 2016 8:32 pm

Stop trying to dump Gay, people. He can do whatever Harrison Barnes can and more, including shutting down Kevin Durant, on a much better contract.

We need to focus on dumping Ben.

SacKingZZZ · Post #849 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Sun May 15, 2016 9:10 pm

Letting go of Gay always comes back to somehow filling that void when he's gone. People have some pretty short term memories, remember what life was like when the Kings didn't have Gay as that 2nd option?

Post #850 » by **City of Trees** » Mon May 16, 2016 12:44 am

teerfour+40LG wrote:Stop trying to dump Gay, people. He can do whatever Harrison Barnes can and more, including shutting down Kevin Durant, on a much better contract.

We need to focus on dumping Ben.

Kings should get rid of both.

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nolimit0820 · Post #851 » by **nolimit0820** » Mon May 16, 2016 2:47 am

I think Joerger is doing what a good coach does...believe in his players. Of course he's not going to go in the media and say Ben has had a few subpar years and I think there are some guys on the market that could be an instant upgrade. Oh and Rudy has never lived up to his potential so I'm ready to see what package we can get. It's nice to actually have a coach who speaks excitedly about his CURRENT roster and not make subtle hints to Vlade through media outlets.

SactoKingsFan · Post #852 » by **SactoKingsFan** » Mon May 16, 2016 3:11 am

I've been ready to move on from Rudy for a while. His athleticism, size and some of his offensive game made him intriguing, however, it's clear that he's just a very flawed player whose impact has been negligible at best. Would be better off trading Rudy while he still has decent trade value.

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enderwilson · Post #853 » by **enderwilson** » Mon May 16, 2016 2:59 pm

SacKingZZZ wrote:Letting go of Gay always comes back to somehow filling that void when he's gone. People have some pretty short term memories, remember what life was like when the Kings didn't have Gay as that 2nd option?

I'm not unaware of this, but I look back and can't help but think that the subtraction of Salmons and the addition of Gay, in theory, should have turned out talent and skill around to the point that we were knocking on the door of the playoffs. Poor FO judgement and management dysfunction notwithstanding, the addition of Gay ended up doing little to improve our record. If I look back to Toronto and Memphis, those teams ended up improving and growing after moving Rudy off their rosters. Pattern or coincidence?

As much as I want to like Rudy for all his talent, skill, and even keel personality, his presence from game to game is too inconsistent to rely on him so heavily. Cuz brings it every night. We can consistently count on Boogie being a 20-10 presence. Rudy, on the other hand, can go off for 30 points one game, and the next he seems like he'd rather be taking a nap. It's this inconsistency and his seeming nonchalance that really bugs me. He lacks a certain passion and drive needed to make the most of his talents. To this end he's almost like Salmons, except much more talented and that's frustrating. I'd probably favor starting Casspi for all his hustle and drive over Gay at this point.

Post #854 » by **codydaze** » Mon May 16, 2016 4:29 pm

SacKingZZZ wrote:Letting go of Gay always comes back to somehow filling that void when he's gone. People have some pretty short term memories, remember what life was like when the Kings didn't have Gay as that 2nd option?

What, like 5-6 less wins? I hear what you're saying but I don't think we can ever be a successful team with Rudy Gay as our 2nd option. I think he either needs to be a 3rd option and we bring in a better scorer and playmaker or we try to move him for some better fitting pieces.

Post #855 » by **codydaze** » Mon May 16, 2016 4:32 pm

I'm also of belief that Rudy would thrive in an Iguodala-type role as a 6th man. Would he ever accept this? I doubt it, but honestly I think that's where he's best off at this point in his career.

Post #856 » by **City of Trees** » Mon May 16, 2016 6:42 pm

I'm sorry but Rudy Gay is not a Kevin Durant defensive stopper. Not even close.

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bleeds_purple · Post #857 » by **bleeds_purple** » Mon May 16, 2016 8:06 pm

codydaze wrote:I'm also of belief that Rudy would thrive in an Iguodala-type role as a 6th man. Would he ever accept this? I doubt it, but honestly I think that's where he's best off at this point in his career.

How do you figure this? He's not a playmaker. He's not a defender. He doesn't bring any of the things Iggy brings to the table.

He's honestly closer to a Jamal Crawford - only if you made him 3 inches taller and took away his handles.

People saying Gay brings certain things to the table are missing the basic reality - his game is not conducive to winning. With his skillset he either needs to be a dominant scorer or he's a total liability. Perhaps if he improved his shooting and was a reliable three point shooter he could be useful. But for a guy like him its really first/second option or bust and I don't think anyone believes he can be a first/second option on a real team.

Post #858 » by **City of Trees** » Mon May 16, 2016 8:16 pm

Rudy Gay as the 2nd option/leader on a playoff team asks too much of him. His talent could support such a role but Gay's personality/aggressiveness cannot. IMO Rudy is a good 3rd option. Think Kevin Love on the Cavs or Chris Bosh with LeBron and Wade

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Post #859 » by **codydaze** » Mon May 16, 2016 8:52 pm

bleeds_purple wrote:
codydaze wrote:I'm also of belief that Rudy would thrive in an Iguodala-type role as a 6th man. Would he ever accept this? I doubt it, but honestly I think that's where he's best off at this point in his career.

How do you figure this? He's not a playmaker. He's not a defender. He doesn't bring any of the things Iggy brings to the table.

He's honestly closer to a Jamal Crawford - only if you made him 3 inches taller and took away his handles.

People saying Gay brings certain things to the table are missing the basic reality - his game is not conducive to winning. With his skillset he either needs to be a dominant scorer or he's a total liability. Perhaps if he improved his shooting and was a reliable three point shooter he could be useful. But for a guy like him its really first/second option or bust and I don't think anyone believes he can be a first/second option on a real team.

I don't mean exactly like Iguodala, I just meant in a role coming off the bench, so yeah a bit closer to Crawford than Iggy. Let him come in with the second unit and get his buckets there. He'll never be a facilitator and if ball movement is something we're trying to accomplish in the half court, Rudy is the exact opposite of what you want out there.

bleeds_purple · Post #860 » by **bleeds_purple** » Mon May 16, 2016 9:32 pm

codydaze wrote:I don't mean exactly like Iguodala, I just meant in a role coming off the bench, so yeah a bit closer to Crawford than Iggy. Let him come in with the second unit and get his buckets there. He'll never be a facilitator and if ball movement is something we're trying to accomplish in the half court, Rudy is the exact opposite of what you want out there.

I agree on moving him to the bench but ideally moving him off the team is better. As far as his role, assuming he stays, I suppose it depends on how our roster shapes up. I'd be happy with him and Casspi as our backup forwards but that we requires us to sign a legit starter.

Most likely he's going to be on the roster and starting. Under those circumstances I'd like to see Joerger sub him out first (6 min mark of 1st/3rd) so he can play with the bench units to start the 2nd/4th. That way he effectively fills the "6th man" role.