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2016 Playoffs

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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#81 » by bwgood77 » Tue May 17, 2016 3:43 am

Gorilla Warfare wrote:Not one comment on this incredible Warriors vs Thunder game going on right now.


I've just been intently watching. It's amazing, I looked at the turnovers at the half, because it seemed like KD and Westbrook were coughing it up a ton and they had 10 to GS's 1. That was the difference. Final turnover tally? OKC 11, GS 14

Man, Donovan much have PREACHED about turnovers at the half. As much heat as Donovan has taken, at least from Thunder fans, I think he's done a GREAT job in these playoffs. He REALLY has the role players playing, and he was able to get through to them that turnovers were costing them.

Seriously, if OKC can just limit their turnovers, they can win any series.
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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#82 » by thamadkant » Tue May 17, 2016 3:53 am

I hope thunder pulls this series. Cant stand the cockiness of the Warriors.
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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#83 » by saintEscaton » Tue May 17, 2016 3:54 am

This is the wake up call the Dubs need to finally get out of cruise control, not worried about them all they shot themselves in the foot. I think OKC will push it to 6 games at least, but their role players are the real X-Factors, without Kanters/Adams giving them the rebounding advantage/interior scoring they don't stand a puncher's chance
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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#84 » by bwgood77 » Tue May 17, 2016 4:04 am

saintEscaton wrote:This is the wake up call the Dubs need to finally get out of cruise control, not worried about them all they shot themselves in the foot. I think OKC will push it to 6 games at least, but their role players are the real X-Factors, without Kanters/Adams giving them the rebounding advantage/interior scoring they don't stand a puncher's chance


I agree that those guys are important. I think they are more important to the Thunder right now than Harden would be. They didn't really have much of a rebounding game much of the night though. Adams is looking phenomenal. Roberson has looked good the last few games and even Waiters at times.

I don't think I'd talk about not having a puncher's chance though, when OKC has won 5 out of their last 6 against SA/OKC, 3 on the road. Those teams lost a combined 3 home game all season...only 3 times in 6 months and then OKC does it to them 3 in about a week?
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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#85 » by Gorilla Warfare » Tue May 17, 2016 4:06 am

Yeah I still have Warriors winning this series 4-2, but I would love for it to go 7, because it's going to be a much better series than whoever ends up in the Finals. If Warriors go I think they win in 5. If OKC goes I think OKC wins in 6.
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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#86 » by DirtyDez » Tue May 17, 2016 4:08 am

1UPZ wrote:I hope thunder pulls this series. Cant stand the cockiness of the Warriors.


I don't find them cocky besides Green. He's just more of a whiner.

Barkley had a great point about teams screwing up by going small to counter GS instead of pounding them with bigs. Ibaka is looking like their 3rd best big.
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#87 » by Frank Lee » Tue May 17, 2016 4:25 am

Adams has swag
What ? Me Worry ?
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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#88 » by bwgood77 » Tue May 17, 2016 4:31 am

Gorilla Warfare wrote:Yeah I still have Warriors winning this series 4-2, but I would love for it to go 7, because it's going to be a much better series than whoever ends up in the Finals. If Warriors go I think they win in 5. If OKC goes I think OKC wins in 6.


So in both cases you'd have them winning the finals on the road. Cleveland pounded the Thunder in both games this year, though obviously OKC is playing at another level now.
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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#89 » by bwgood77 » Tue May 17, 2016 4:41 am

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Enes_Kanter/status/732426689041424385[/tweet]
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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#90 » by MrMiyagi » Tue May 17, 2016 4:58 am

bwgood77 wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/Enes_Kanter/status/732426689041424385[/tweet]

Skip Bayless is a jackass.
SHAZAM!

Suns traded Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, Jae Crowder and 4 1st round picks and a swap so some Vegas Bookies would like us.
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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#91 » by thamadkant » Tue May 17, 2016 6:20 am

DirtyDez wrote:
1UPZ wrote:I hope thunder pulls this series. Cant stand the cockiness of the Warriors.


I don't find them cocky besides Green. He's just more of a whiner.

Barkley had a great point about teams screwing up by going small to counter GS instead of pounding them with bigs. Ibaka is looking like their 3rd best big.




Curry has celebrated or counted a shot before it went in about a hundred times this season...

Thompson has done it a few times too.



Ironically... Dray is the only player i like in their team.. Mainlu because he is open about his villain act... He says a lot but some truth to most of it...


Their FO is also very cocky...
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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#92 » by GMATCallahan » Tue May 17, 2016 8:02 am

MrMiyagi wrote:Skip Bayless is a jackass.


... point being that most media people know nothing about basketball. I got a kick out of hearing Marv Albert again trying to editorialize and analyze the game on a couple of occasions during the Game One broadcast and, as usual, totally missing the boat.

Most of these folks are just disseminate hype.
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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#93 » by Damkac » Tue May 17, 2016 8:31 am

I prefer GS winning (OKC has too much iso) but wouldn't mind Oklahoma making championship. All I want is to whoever win the west to kick LeBron's steroided a$$.
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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#94 » by GMATCallahan » Tue May 17, 2016 11:08 am

GMATCallahan wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:Skip Bayless is a jackass.


... point being that most media people know nothing about basketball. I got a kick out of hearing Marv Albert again trying to editorialize and analyze the game on a couple of occasions during the Game One broadcast and, as usual, totally missing the boat.

Most of these folks are just disseminate hype.


Regarding Albert's fallacious comments, first there was a play in the second quarter where Enes Kanter stepped up to contest or take away a potential jump-shot by Klay Thompson as the Warrior guard curled off a Festus Ezeli down-screen on the right wing. Thompson then hit the rolling Ezeli with a pocket pass that Ezeli, now uncovered because Kanter had stepped up on Thompson, took in stride for the score. Albert claimed that Kanter had been guarding the wrong guy, indicating that the Thunder big man had committed a mental mistake. Actually, Kanter was doing what he probably should have done, not giving Thompson space for his jumper. Oklahoma City's weak-side defense just did not rotate to Ezeli in time, and Albert had possessed no idea what he was talking about.

Then there was a play out of a timeout early in the third quarter where Kevin Durant posted up on the left block and kicked the ball to an open Andre Roberson on the right wing for a successful three-pointer. Albert lauded the Thunder for supposedly drawing up a great play out of a timeout, but in actuality, Golden State had simply suffered a defensive mix up. Both Harrison Barnes and Draymond Green ended up defending Serge Ibaka as the big man cut down the middle, while no one guarded Roberson. There was no intricate movement or back-screening on the play, either—just a mix up in assignments. After the three-pointer, Green was visibly upset about the confusion, yet according to Albert, it represented some incredible designed play.

And I reviewed these plays multiple times (via the "rewind" button on my remote).

Albert was doing this kind of thing in the nineties, too, if not earlier. Most memorably, he stated that John Starks should have stopped shooting late in Game Seven of the 1994 NBA Finals where Starks infamously shot 2-18 from the field and 0-11 on threes. Actually, Starks, who was New York's leading offensive player in that series (he would have been the Finals MVP had the Knicks won in six, which they almost did), and who had been an All-Star that year, was shooting a lot of good shots or normal shots within the flow of the Knicks' offense, usually with sufficient space and rhythm. If he had been unwilling to shoot the next one because of all his previous misses, New York's offense would not have functioned properly, he would have been a coward, and he should not have been on the floor. Starks was playing the game the right way and taking the shots that he needed to take—they just were not going in. But Albert got on his soap box and condemned the way that Starks was playing, even though the guard was doing nothing wrong.

The same thing happened three years later in another winner-take-all game, Game Five of the 1997 Western Conference First Round between the Suns and the Sonics in Seattle. Kevin Johnson, who suffered a cold-shooting series and was playing on a sprained ankle, ended up shooting 8-27 for the game and went 1-7 in the fourth quarter (with 2 assists and 0 turnovers in the period). According to Albert, he should have stopped shooting jumpers and ran the offense more patiently. The problem with the broadcaster's analysis was twofold. First, the Suns were trailing by double digits for nearly the entire fourth quarter (they would end up losing by 24 points), and there was no time to patiently run the offense. Phoenix needed lots of points in very little time, which meant shooting the first good shot that materialized. Second, that philosophy was exactly how the Suns—down by 22 points at halftime—had stormed back in the third quarter, cutting Seattle's lead to eight entering the fourth quarter and down to five points after the first possession of the final period (when Wesley Person buried a long three-pointer off a Kevin Johnson assist). When Phoenix had mounted its spectacular third quarter comeback, K.J. had scored 12 points on 5-10 field goal shooting. At one point, after a driving layup plus the foul, Albert exclaimed, "Kevin Johnson inspiring the Phoenix Suns!" And the Suns were playing a four-guard offense with Johnson, Person, Jason Kidd, and Rex Chapman, and they were all using that approach of launching the first good or reasonable shot available—obviously encouraged by their head coach, former shooting guard Danny Ainge. Even Kidd was coming down the court and bombing threes from the wings. The Suns were basically previewing Mike D'Antoni's "Seven Seconds Or Less," only they were using that philosophy even more deliriously and thrillingly due to the presence of two floor-burning point guards and two lithe shooting guards all on the floor together, conventional positions be damned. So naturally, the Suns maintained the same approach in the fourth quarter, and that approach became even more necessary as the Sonics' lead again swelled and time was dwindling. But now Albert found it problematic and seemed to believe that Kevin Johnson and the Suns should have milked the shot clock in a conventional manner. He even analogized K.J. to Starks in 1994—and he was as wrong now as he had been three years earlier. For again, he did not understand process and was just trying to judge the game on results, which represents a slipshod form of analysis.

But many fans and media members believe that loudmouths such as Skip Bayless and Marv Albert actually know what they are talking about, or at least these people shape perceptions of what is occurring.
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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#95 » by saintEscaton » Tue May 17, 2016 5:17 pm

Dubs have every right to showboat because they are on top of the world. They play a beautiful brand of effortless basketball, Green/ Bogut have perfected setting moving elevator door screens into an art form and the rest of the league can only complain. I just dislike the bushleague antics of those two, sometimes they act like they're only in the game to decapitate opponents. OKC has risen to the occasion and Russ is forcing the issue as the initiator. but still feel like he is teeter tottering with KD on the see saw. That makes it hard to close out 4th quarters
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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#96 » by thamadkant » Tue May 17, 2016 7:30 pm

saintEscaton wrote:Dubs have every right to showboat because they are on top of the world. They play a beautiful brand of effortless basketball, Green/ Bogut have perfected setting moving elevator door screens into an art form and the rest of the league can only complain. I just dislike the bushleague antics of those two, sometimes they act like they're only in the game to decapitate opponents. OKC has risen to the occasion and Russ is forcing the issue as the initiator. but still feel like he is teeter tottering with KD on the see saw. That makes it hard to close out 4th quarters



And the referees (and NBA executives) love them too.

They have created a very attractive and appealing brand of basketball, especially for young people out there.

You're right though, I've seen around 50+ games of Warriors and they get a way with so much.

I mean Draymond Green IS allowed to push off with his forearms when going for rebounds.... referees allow him to do that because he is undersized.
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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#97 » by GMATCallahan » Tue May 17, 2016 8:40 pm

DirtyDez wrote:
1UPZ wrote:I hope thunder pulls this series. Cant stand the cockiness of the Warriors.


I don't find them cocky besides Green. He's just more of a whiner.

Barkley had a great point about teams screwing up by going small to counter GS instead of pounding them with bigs. Ibaka is looking like their 3rd best big.


Curry strikes me as cocky, but he has a right to be.

Then again, Westbrook is cocky, too.
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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#98 » by GMATCallahan » Tue May 17, 2016 9:21 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
saintEscaton wrote:This is the wake up call the Dubs need to finally get out of cruise control, not worried about them all they shot themselves in the foot. I think OKC will push it to 6 games at least, but their role players are the real X-Factors, without Kanters/Adams giving them the rebounding advantage/interior scoring they don't stand a puncher's chance


I agree that those guys are important. I think they are more important to the Thunder right now than Harden would be. They didn't really have much of a rebounding game much of the night though. Adams is looking phenomenal. Roberson has looked good the last few games and even Waiters at times.

I don't think I'd talk about not having a puncher's chance though, when OKC has won 5 out of their last 6 against SA/OKC, 3 on the road. Those teams lost a combined 3 home game all season...only 3 times in 6 months and then OKC does it to them 3 in about a week?


With some roster reshuffling (basically taking a bunch of guys who hardly play or make minimal contributions and replacing them with rookies on minimum contracts), the situation would not necessarily be either/or: the Thunder could have afforded those big guys as well as Harden. But Dion Waiters has been huge off the bench for Oklahoma City, giving the Thunder that third scorer who can create his own offense one-on-one or in pick-and-roll situations, along with offering an additional perimeter shooter who can feed off Durant and Westbrook. Waiters has served as a poor man's Harden, and the Thunder would not be in this position today without him.

I have long felt that the Thunder made a mistake by giving Kendrick Perkins a $36M contract extension back in 2011 when that money could have gone toward Harden. The difference between Perkins and the current Oklahoma City big men is that Perkins constituted a total offensive liability outside of setting screens, and that kind of big man did not necessarily play well in an offense that revolves around players who freelance. Perkins' offensive liabilities may have been more acceptable in a more structured, traditional offense like the one that Boston ran.

Conversely, Kanter, Ibaka, and Adams all find ways to contribute offensively, even though Adams is not a shooter.
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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#99 » by bwgood77 » Tue May 17, 2016 9:26 pm

GMATCallahan wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
saintEscaton wrote:This is the wake up call the Dubs need to finally get out of cruise control, not worried about them all they shot themselves in the foot. I think OKC will push it to 6 games at least, but their role players are the real X-Factors, without Kanters/Adams giving them the rebounding advantage/interior scoring they don't stand a puncher's chance


I agree that those guys are important. I think they are more important to the Thunder right now than Harden would be. They didn't really have much of a rebounding game much of the night though. Adams is looking phenomenal. Roberson has looked good the last few games and even Waiters at times.

I don't think I'd talk about not having a puncher's chance though, when OKC has won 5 out of their last 6 against SA/OKC, 3 on the road. Those teams lost a combined 3 home game all season...only 3 times in 6 months and then OKC does it to them 3 in about a week?


With some roster reshuffling (basically taking a bunch of guys who hardly play or make minimal contributions and replacing them with rookies on minimum contracts), the situation would not necessarily be either/or: the Thunder could have afforded those big guys as well as Harden. But Dion Waiters has been huge off the bench for Oklahoma City, giving the Thunder that third scorer who can create his own offense one-on-one or in pick-and-roll situations, along with offering an additional perimeter shooter who can feed off Durant and Westbrook. Waiters has served as a poor man's Harden, and the Thunder would not be in this position today without him.

I have long felt that the Thunder made a mistake by giving Kendrick Perkins a $36M contract extension back in 2011 when that money could have gone toward Harden. The difference between Perkins and the current Oklahoma City big men is that Perkins constituted a total offensive liability outside of setting screens, and that kind of big man did not necessarily play well in an offense that revolves around players who freelance. Perkins' offensive liabilities may have been more acceptable in a more structured, traditional offense like the one that Boston ran.

Conversely, Kanter, Ibaka, and Adams all find ways to contribute offensively, even though Adams is not a shooter.


I believe they got Adams with a pick received in the Harden trade. They did get some roster flexibility. They have made many mistakes. Had they not reversed the trade for Chandler back in the day, they never would have probably traded for Perkins in the first place and Chandler was in his prime (or about to be).
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Re: 2016 Playoffs 

Post#100 » by GMATCallahan » Tue May 17, 2016 9:42 pm

saintEscaton wrote:This is the wake up call the Dubs need to finally get out of cruise control, not worried about them all they shot themselves in the foot. I think OKC will push it to 6 games at least, but their role players are the real X-Factors, without Kanters/Adams giving them the rebounding advantage/interior scoring they don't stand a puncher's chance


I thought that the game represented an example of Barkley's "live by the three, die by the three" mantra. Usually, the Warriors live by it and disprove Sir Charles' conventional notion, but they of course play that freewheeling, circus/video game style that can be very loose—sometimes too loose. Last night in the fourth quarter, I thought that the looseness of their style came back to bite them and that they could have used a tighter, more precise approach that settled for contested threes less. But that is how the Warriors play in general, so whether they should alter their style a little is debatable. In the end, these sorts of games come down to a possession here and a possession there. Draymond Green notably forced a three instead of giving the ball back to Stephen Curry when the latter was being defended by Enes Kanter, and the Warriors suffered from two bad calls (the Westbrook travel that should have been called and the referees not putting Iguodala at the free throw line earlier in the quarter, instead calling a non-shooting foul when Iguodala was attempting a put-back at the rim).

In addition to the impact of the Thunder's length defensively, what stood out to me is that Westbrook can place a lot more defensive pressure on Curry than vice versa. Given that Curry is the superior offensive player, this difference should not be pivotal over the long haul of a best-of-seven series, but Curry can very much be broken down by Westbrook.

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