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2016 draft thread: Part 2

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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#461 » by Saltine » Wed May 18, 2016 9:15 am

Skal? The dude averaged 3.1 rebounds a game. He probably has "BUST" stenciled on his ass.... poor BBIQ, timid, and weak. This guy??? Payne will accidentally break him in the first week of training camp :x
He registered just 11 assists in 567 minutes this past season, with a 3.6% assist percentage that ranked as the third worst among prospects in our Top-100 rankings. Labissiere's lack of experience and underdeveloped feel for the game are noticeable at times, as the game often just moves too fast for him, something that contributed to his struggles in seeing playing time as a freshman. The tentativeness he developed from being afraid to get yanked from the game after the slightest mistake, didn't help matters...

Labissiere is still very raw on this end of the floor, as he averaged more fouls per minute than any other player in our Top-100 rankings, which limited his ability to stay on the floor. Labissiere lacks both discipline and awareness, as he bites on pump-fakes way too often, and struggles to read developments off the ball, posting just nine steals in 567 minutes, which is tied for the third lowest rate in our Top-100 on a per-minute basis. While his fundamentals on offense are very strong, he has poor habits on the defensive end, playing on his heels too frequently, being hunched over in his stance, and often just being a step late to make plays rotating over from the weak side.

Labissiere's lack of strength is an issue, but so is his lack of toughness. He is a little bit too nice for his own good at times, as he tends to get pushed around in the post frequently and doesn't always fight back the way you might hope, which will be an issue if he's asked to operate as a small-ball center like big men in today's NBA are increasingly asked to. He's a poor rebounder for that reason, with his 5.5 defensive boards per-40 ranking second worst among all big men projected to be drafted.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Skal-Labissiere-71664/
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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#462 » by NikolaPekovic » Wed May 18, 2016 9:29 am

I've watched some Ben Simmons videos, I've heard he doesn't have a jumper, but it seems way worse than that. The guy has no offensive game outside of transition points.

He can't post up, he can't shoot. Not interested in defending. Meanwhile Ingram is incredibly versatile and seems to have a good head on his shoulders.


This draft reminds me of the past two. Two prospects in each draft. One touted as NBA ready (Jabari, Okafor) and the other considered athletic and raw (Towns, Wiggins). If history repeats itself Ingram will turn out to be the better NBA player.
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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#463 » by Saltine » Wed May 18, 2016 9:58 am

Simmons isn't very impressive at all, hopefully the 76'ers take him, he'll fit right in :-)
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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#464 » by Worm Guts » Wed May 18, 2016 12:08 pm

NikolaPekovic wrote:I've watched some Ben Simmons videos, I've heard he doesn't have a jumper, but it seems way worse than that. The guy has no offensive game outside of transition points.

He can't post up, he can't shoot. Not interested in defending. Meanwhile Ingram is incredibly versatile and seems to have a good head on his shoulders.

.


He can drive and he can get to the foul line. I think he averaged something ridiculous like 9 FTA per game. Of course it doesn't matter since he'll be gone by the time we pick.
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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#465 » by minimus » Wed May 18, 2016 12:41 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
NikolaPekovic wrote:I've watched some Ben Simmons videos, I've heard he doesn't have a jumper, but it seems way worse than that. The guy has no offensive game outside of transition points.

He can't post up, he can't shoot. Not interested in defending. Meanwhile Ingram is incredibly versatile and seems to have a good head on his shoulders.

.


He can drive and he can get to the foul line. I think he averaged something ridiculous like 9 FTA per game. Of course it doesn't matter since he'll be gone by the time we pick.


This kid is special and needs right coaching and situation. Not sure if PHI and LAL are good places for him, as for me BOS and PHO are better fit.
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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#466 » by Devilzsidewalk » Wed May 18, 2016 1:27 pm

damn, just saw Bolomboy's #s: already was getting hype for his beast rebounding, and he lays down a 40+ vertical at the combine and one of the best lane agility runs of all-time...and he's a 6'9" PF
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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#467 » by jpatrick » Wed May 18, 2016 2:40 pm

Seems consensus of the top two tiers is:

Tier 1: Simmons, Ingram
Tier 2: Bender, Murray, Dunn, Murray

Bender is clearly the best fit in our tier, but also the biggest risk. People compare him to Porzingis, but Porzingis stayed an extra year in Europe, thus by the time he was drafted, there was a year of game tape playing 20 minutes a night in the second best domestic league in the world. Bender has been benched for the past month and hasn't shown much. I'd still take him and would trade up if the cost was minimal (eg Bazz).

The three guards? I have no idea who I prefer. Don't hate or love any of them, Hield being my least favorite because of age and the fact I think he'll only contribute one skill in the NBA, shooting. However, that is a very important skill. I do wish either Murray or Hield were big enough to swing between SG and SF, but they're not.
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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#468 » by Worm Guts » Wed May 18, 2016 3:00 pm

I kind of want to sneak Brown in there as someone I'd consider. He's not popular on this board, but he has great athleticism and size for his position and the things he's bad at are things you can work on.
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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#469 » by Dleavitt24 » Wed May 18, 2016 3:15 pm

Questions that need to be asked with our pick:
Can they contribute now?
Do they fit one or more need? (Shooting, defense, rebounding)
Where will they fit depth wise?
Murray checks the shooting and versatility box, but can he contribute to winning with his youth and questionable defense?
Dunn is your most ready plus best perimeter defender, gives you insurance for rubio and can play SG in defensive situations. But we're does his potential go for the future? Is he here to challenge rubio for a starting gig? How will that jumper improve?
Heild gives you that ready made experience again and he's the shooter wolves need but in a league that values versatile players that will most likely mean lavine plays some point or heild can play some at the SF pos. But then Tyus is your backup PG? Tyus,lavine,hield as a pos lineup combo...no thanks.
Bender is impressive but definitely not ready. 15 min a game max. With the tream needing rebounding going with bender forces you to make a decision bender or Dieng because the team needs a bigger body in FA. To me bender >Dieng obviously but not for a few years. Playing him big min sets the tream back.
Brown can contribute as a wing that can get out and run and play a role as versatile defensive player that can grow is role. I believe in that role he can effect winning much like Winslow current role. There potential there but there's bust there too. Biggest question is his shooting but there is no doubt he can be usefull in a limited fashion early on.

The decision is tough because all these prospects have parts of there gam the wolves could use. It's hard to have what route new management goes. I get the feeling they look at versatility and defense/rebounding first. But also have to take into consideration players like heild who are really exceptional at there one craft. Also at the end of the day they could just pick the player that nets them the best trade value.
I give out my pick but it seems to change on a weekly basis.
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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#470 » by kmgarnett21 » Wed May 18, 2016 3:38 pm

SI's latest mock has us taking Ellenson:

"The Wolves could go a lot of different directions here. If they want immediate shooting help, Buddy Hield is the choice. If they want insurance in the backcourt, then Kris Dunn makes a lot of sense, or Jamal Murray could be the choice if he's still on the board. But Henry Ellenson's got the range and skills to be a perfect four next to Karl-Anthony Towns going forward, and as we've all seen the Wolves slowly assemble the 2019 Dream Team, power forward is the one hole that hasn't been filled. Ellenson's biggest question mark is defense, but for a player who may struggle on defense, it's hard to imagine a better security blanket than Towns and Andrew Wiggins playing in a Thibs system."

Simmons to PHI
Ingram to LAL
Murray to BOS
Bender to PHX
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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#471 » by Devilzsidewalk » Wed May 18, 2016 3:45 pm

Worm Guts wrote:I kind of want to sneak Brown in there as someone I'd consider. He's not popular on this board, but he has great athleticism and size for his position and the things he's bad at are things you can work on.


He's so purely a SF though. I've heard him mentioned as a potential small ball PF, but he has no floor stretching ability or any evidence that he can defend up a position. He plays the perimeter, which isn't a big need area, and unlike guys like Murray or Hield, he doesn't offer any specifically valuable traits either.

He has some intrigue to him, but I see enough holes in his game and positional overlap to where I'd probably head in other directions before giving him a serious look.
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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#472 » by thinktank » Wed May 18, 2016 3:48 pm

ESPNSAMI wrote:Worst case- Kris Dunn- don't need another point guard who can't shoot.


Why do people keep saying Dunn can't shoot?

48% 2FG.

45% FG%.

37% 3FG%.
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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#473 » by Devilzsidewalk » Wed May 18, 2016 3:50 pm

kmgarnett21 wrote:SI's latest mock has us taking Ellenson:

"The Wolves could go a lot of different directions here. If they want immediate shooting help, Buddy Hield is the choice. If they want insurance in the backcourt, then Kris Dunn makes a lot of sense, or Jamal Murray could be the choice if he's still on the board. But Henry Ellenson's got the range and skills to be a perfect four next to Karl-Anthony Towns going forward, and as we've all seen the Wolves slowly assemble the 2019 Dream Team, power forward is the one hole that hasn't been filled. Ellenson's biggest question mark is defense, but for a player who may struggle on defense, it's hard to imagine a better security blanket than Towns and Andrew Wiggins playing in a Thibs system."

Simmons to PHI
Ingram to LAL
Murray to BOS
Bender to PHX


is he like Troy Murphy, or am I minimizing his potential like casual fans used to do to Kevin Love? Pretty damn fine measurements he's got, but I'm pretty biased against big men that look like defensive liabilities.
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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#474 » by kmgarnett21 » Wed May 18, 2016 3:58 pm

Doogie on 1500 ESPN: Kris Dunn talk to the Wolves is legit. Mentions Ibaka and Faried as potential trade targets for 5th pick.
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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#475 » by Devilzsidewalk » Wed May 18, 2016 4:01 pm

kmgarnett21 wrote:Doogie on 1500 ESPN: Kris Dunn talk to the Wolves is legit. Mentions Ibaka and Faried as potential trade targets for 5th pick.

wow, Faried. Imagine how disappointing that would feel.
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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#476 » by Merc_Porto » Wed May 18, 2016 4:02 pm

My favorite at #5 still is Dunn.
There's so much Dwyane Wade in Kris Dunn IMO
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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#477 » by Worm Guts » Wed May 18, 2016 4:15 pm

Devilzsidewalk wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:I kind of want to sneak Brown in there as someone I'd consider. He's not popular on this board, but he has great athleticism and size for his position and the things he's bad at are things you can work on.


He's so purely a SF though. I've heard him mentioned as a potential small ball PF, but he has no floor stretching ability or any evidence that he can defend up a position. He plays the perimeter, which isn't a big need area, and unlike guys like Murray or Hield, he doesn't offer any specifically valuable traits either.

He has some intrigue to him, but I see enough holes in his game and positional overlap to where I'd probably head in other directions before giving him a serious look.


He can play with either Wiggins or Lavine though, especially if he learns to shoot which is more likely than Hield growing another 2 inches.
Hield still might be my favorite at 5 (assuming Murray is gone)but the Jodie Meeks comparisons are a little too close for comfort.
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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#478 » by thinktank » Wed May 18, 2016 4:18 pm

mercgold3 wrote:My favorite at #5 still is Dunn.
There's so much Dwyane Wade in Kris Dunn IMO


Hield has a lot of that, too.

If Hield turns out to be the guy and we take Dunn I'll cry.
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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#479 » by Klomp » Wed May 18, 2016 5:15 pm

thinktank wrote:
mercgold3 wrote:My favorite at #5 still is Dunn.
There's so much Dwyane Wade in Kris Dunn IMO

Hield has a lot of that, too.

Really? Do you seriously read this part of his scouting report and think "that sounds like Buddy Hield"?

Regardless of what position Wade plays, he is going to have to add a jump shot to his arsenal. Wade rarely relied on the perimeter game at the college level because of his ability to take his man off the dribble. The athletic guards of the NBA are far more likely to be able to contain his penetration. Wade better be able to go to his jumper once they do.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/draft/2003-shooting-guards.htm#waded
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Re: 2016 draft thread: Part 2 

Post#480 » by Takingbaconback » Wed May 18, 2016 5:20 pm

thinktank wrote:
ESPNSAMI wrote:Worst case- Kris Dunn- don't need another point guard who can't shoot.


Why do people keep saying Dunn can't shoot?

48% 2FG.

45% FG%.

37% 3FG%.


I'm surprised by that, I thought he was a much worse shooter than that. Didn't think he would be worth drafting to replace Rubio, but if he shows up to be a good shooter in workouts, I can definitely see Minny taking him as backup PG. His defense, size, mobility, athleticism are excellent for PG prospect so it makes it much easier to get him. He has hovered around .690 FT% for 3 seasons so I would make sure he is a good shooter first.

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