The Ban system

[Maroko]

Hi there,

A little bit of context to make you understand why i created this thread.

During the game 2 between Miami and Toronto, i received a one week ban.I posted a gif in the Raptors board (which didnt get edited by a mod by the way so if it was against the RealGM policy : why my gif is still there ? Specially if i get a one week, i must have done something terrible !)

You can judge by yourself : viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1441815&p=47057001#p47057001

Anyway i am not here to complain about my specific ban but more about the system :

1) A ban = an explanation in a PM :
Howard once told me if i want an explanation about a ban, i need to PM the mod but if you don't know who banned you, how can you do ?
I think mod should be responsible of their action : if you ban someone, you have to send a pm, no need to write a long story ! It's too easy to hide behind your function !

2) A ban during playoff time :

Well as i said, i get a one week ban, the series i was following could have be done before my comeback. For a suspension longer than one day, the user should have the possibility to appeal or at least to write to the high deciders to plead his case specially during the playoff time, it's least critical during the regular season.
When i get my one week ban, i was like



3) The context :

There are several mods working on a board, some got the history/the context, some don't.
One of my proposal will be : you could be banned by the 2nd, the 3rd or the last mod reading your post. The previous mods who read your post didnt take any action about your post, didnt mean they didnt make their job, they just judged : no action should be taken. So i suggest, a mod can "check" a post so to warn the others mods, i am "ok" with that post", of course they can't "check" every post but you know the one who can be judged wrong if you don't have all the details.
I speak for myself : What i did during the playoff times in the Raptors board, i did it in the regular season ! It's not like i was coming from nowhere. I didnt change.
My highest and1 post was in the Raps board : viewtopic.php?p=44989317#p44989317 as you can see.

Whether my team lost or won, i was posting there after the game.
When the Raptors beat us in that game 7 : i did post there and congratulate them : viewtopic.php?p=47269199#p47269199

My post is not about being salty or not, or chasing that mod who banned me bu to try to improve the system !

I live and die by my gifs !

[gom]

I want to point out that the loss of Maroko's gifs in our game threads severely worsened their quality, which syllogistically led to a poorer performance by our team, thus gifting the series to the Raptors and impacting the quality of the ECF.

We Heat fans live and die by his gifs.

[kayath]

Yeah for one week ban there should be some justification while we all like Maroko's gifs.

[gom]

Yeah for one week ban there should be some justification while we all like Maroko's gifs.

Plus we all lost the BrunoSkull-Maroko gif war. Heat fans and Raptor fans have always gotten along.

[tsherkin]

The context is irrelevant. You've received negative comments or warnings from five different mods, and three of them specifically on the Raptors board.

All of then mods who hit you with warnings on the Raps board understand the context of your posting. The other two mods besides myself (since we interacted on the GB, not the Raps board) who hit you with warnings are guys who've got a strong sense of the pulse of the board.

I appreciate you exercising your right to get an explanation, that makes sense, but you were in the wrong more than once and you paid the price for it. With posters who are fans of other teams, we have limited tolerance, and you have pushed the boundary more than once, and that's the result. The same is true of how Miami and other team mods handle Toronto posters in turn, so it's nothing new or unique to the Raptors board itself. We aren't interested in BS on our board in the middle of a hot playoff series. You had multiple chances. You grabbed a warning from one mod on May 3rd, then another from a different mod on May 5th, and the day after you were handed your suspension. Of neither mod could one say that your situation was not understood. They know you, they know the context of your posts, and that's the end of it.

[Maroko]

Dear tsherkin,

I was speaking in general, i was just using my experience, i was not trying to say heat mods were better.

I only got (i received a PM) one warning and as you can see see i wrote :

It's just a battle of gifs with Bruno, nothing more, sorry if some of you felt trolled !

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1441791&p=47015193#p47015193

I never received the other warnings you mentionned at least i was not warned. Why did i was informed only for 1 warning (this time my post was edited and not for the 3 others ? Why did i get banned and my gifs still there whitout beind edited ?
It's better to say "no interaction between the community", you just have to post in a politically correct manner...
Rivalry has always been there, i understand it might have been out of control in the past as long as people don't insult and respect each other, i think it should be fine.
When the series was over, i did post there to congrulate : viewtopic.php?p=47269199#p47269199


- i was never warned during the regular season and i did "much" more than what i did during the playoffs times
What is BS for you ? I got "15" And1 from posters from both team
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1444027&p=47226967#p47226967

As i said when you get a ban for more than 24 hours, the mod you should explain his decision. Make a poll and you will see what the users want.

[tsherkin]

I never received the other warnings you mentionned at least i was not warned. Why did i was informed only for 1 warning (this time my post was edited and not for the 3 others ? Why did i get banned and my gifs still there whitout beind edited ?

Not sure what happened. Money says it was in then middle of a game thread while the actual game was going on, so you just got the suspension the second time. As I wasn't the issuing mod, I can't really comment on that.

What is BS for you ? I got "15" And1 from posters from both team

And-1s mean absolutely nothing.

As i said when you get a ban for more than 24 hours, the mod you should explain his decision. Make a poll and you will see what the users want.

We don't need to make a poll about this. You've a history of warnings on the Raptors board. It is possible that the last mod forgot to send you a PM because he made the suspension and didn't actually issue a warning, but over the many, many times that we have to issue warnings, sometimes a mistake is made. It doesn't really excuse the behavior which prompted the warning.

[gom]

What if the PM was part of the suspension process? It sounds like a bug that it's not.

[Maroko]

A history of warning in the Raps board ????

1) As i said i only got one PM about one warning which i made an apology about it
2) Only one post was edited by a mod...
3) About And1 : if the members of that board didnt enjoy it, i would have never posted there. I was there because i appreciate the work of some and for their open-mindness

[gom]

Maroko has some good points.

As a computer engineer and a systems analyst I always thinks it's a good idea to review systems to make sure they are the most effective as possible. At the same time, I sympathize with tsherkin and the other moderators. It is a difficult thankless job.

One thing to remember is that realgm does use a kill list, so users don't have to always complain to moderators. Just put the user ids of people you don't want to read on the kill list and they'll go away. It's easy and you avoid conflicts like this one. Moderators don't want to ban people. My guess is that it's usually user complaints that fuel their frustration. I really like the job the Heat moderators are doing. They have enormous tolerance.

[tsherkin]

What if the PM was part of the suspension process? It sounds like a bug that it's not.

A PM is part of the warning process, not the suspension process. We have to manually send them in the event that an actual warning isn't issued.

A history of warning in the Raps board ????

You had a couple of warnings on the Raps board. You have three other official warnings/suspensions and a couple of additional negative comments about trolling and baiting.

Listen, you've got a history, and you made some contentious posts which were infractions. As a result, you took a 12-hour suspension because the mods on the board didn't appreciate what you were doing. That is the beginning, middle and end of this, particularly given your history as a poster.

The 7-day was the product of more than just the warnings on the Raps board, it pertained to your overall profile as a poster.

Meantime, it's curious to me that you were suspended on the 6th and have had nearly a week to be back at posting and are only now coming to the feedback forum about this, or PM'g anyone about this. Why did you wait so long before asking about the situation? Also, did you PM anyone and ask any questions after your first warning on the Raps board on May 3rd, when you got that warning for trolling and the automatic PM which came with it?

[gom]

What if the PM was part of the suspension process? It sounds like a bug that it's not.

A PM is part of the warning process, not the suspension process. We have to manually send them in the event that an actual warning isn't issued.

I don't think you need that manual step. It should be part of the transaction flow. It forces the user (in this case the moderator) to take an action. Bad design.

[tsherkin]

As a computer engineer and a systems analyst I always thinks it's a good idea to review systems to make sure they are the most effective as possible.

Sure. And the one point with which I do sympathize is that he should have received a PM regarding the 7-day. That sometimes happens, because as I said, if it occurs in the middle of a game thread or something while we're on overwatch for the 15 year-old board, I mean the Raptors board, we're usually very busy.

One thing to remember is that realgm does use a kill list, so users don't have to always complain to moderators. Just put the user ids of people you don't want to read on the kill list and they'll go away. It's easy and you avoid conflicts like this one. Moderators don't want to ban people. My guess is that it's usually user complaints that fuel their frustration. I really like the job the Heat moderators are doing. They have enormous tolerance.

Yeah, the Heat mods have been doing a particularly good job during a difficult period. They're a good crew.

And yes, gom is correct: we're really not all about banning posters. This is only more true if a poster is generally a good contributor, but it does remain true that there are tolerances, and thinner tolerances for cross-board posters, and policies to be mindful of on each individual board above and beyond the usual TOS by which a poster must abide. When you go into someone else's house, then you play by their rules, so to speak. It's true of each of the team boards, for example, and both the GB and PC Boards have their own unique policies, as does the CA board, etc, etc. Each of these is in accordance with the the general audience and tone of those boards. The board mods on the Toronto forum made their call, and Maroko is a guy who has been put on Read-Only Access to the General Discussion Board and has other warnings since, plus a couple of warnings in quick succession on the Raps board in the playoffs, during a series with Maroko's team.

There isn't a ton else to say, though I thank gom for his input into the matter, and I appreciate Maroko taking the time to bring this to the correct channel for communication.

[tsherkin]

I don't think you need that manual step. It should be part of the transaction flow.

It's definitely something to look into, since we have it implemented for warnings already. I know that on the GB, we have a PM policy when we deliver strikes so there isn't any confusion, etc. We'll examine this.

[gom]

And yes, gom is correct: we're really not all about banning posters.

Yeah that's what I thought. Like a good referee, moderators should strive to be as invisible as possible to let the conversation flow. Of course it isn't always easy, especially when emotions run high.

Are you familiar with The Well at all? It's an online community that has been going on for almost 30 years now. The philosophy is "You own your words." There is no moderation because you cannot delete your posts. There is nothing more shameful than seeing something you posted when you were an idiot ten years ago. LOL.

[Maroko]

Well you are not answering to my questions and try to hide by making me like I am a bad poster.
Well I have been put in read only on GB by you, was it this year ? Last year ? 2 years ago ? No more than that, why do you bring it ? My thread was is about it ?

As I said: I got a one week ban by a mod, how can someone get an explanation if you don't know who banned you ?
--> no answer

You said I got several warnings from Raptors mod :
I told you I got only one PM and the post associated with that warning was edited with a "warned". I wrote an apology to your board.
So again why didn't I receive the PM associated with the warnings you mentioned ? And why my posts were not edited specially for a week ban, it makes no sense, you can turn it in every way you want, there is no logic into it.

Well I comeback from my suspension less than a week, I took my time to create that thread, didn't know there was a time where I could talk about it.

I would like to add, a gif maker is not automatically a troller, it's only because the way the Raptors board reacted positively to my gifs, I kept posting there.
When my team lost, I congratulate your team on your board. If I was a troller as you label me, would I really behave that way ? And I did it during the regular season and during the playoffs time.

A poster who got banned more than 24hours, should get automatically a PM from the one who banned him, whether his history or not and got his post edited.

[tsherkin]

Well you are not answering to my questions and try to hide by making me like I am a bad poster.

No, I'm not hiding anything, and if you're trying to get a cooperative result, you'll do yourself a favor and quit making accusatory statements of that sort in this thread.

Well I have been put in read only on GB by you, was it this year ? Last year ? 2 years ago ? No more than that, why do you bring it ? My thread was is about it ?

Your poster history is relevant to why a mod might move to the next level with you, that's why I mentioned it.

As I said: I got a one week ban by a mod, how can someone get an explanation if you don't know who banned you ?
--> no answer

Technically, Howard Mass banned you. Only admins can enact a ban longer than 12-hours. I have already contacted the mod who was involved in your most recent suspension, however, so all that remains is for you to patiently wait for him to respond.

So again why didn't I receive the PM associated with the warnings you mentioned ?

It would help if you paid closer attention. I already told you that you should have received the PM but that it is manual, so he might have failed to issue the message. Please don't make me repeat myself any further/

If I was a troller as you label me, would I really behave that way ?

Wouldn't be the first time. Anyway, as I said, that's about the limit of where this conversation can go for now. Don't take your frustration out on me, Maroko. I didn't suspend you, and I didn't put in for your ban. Wasting your time badgering me isn't going to help you. I understand that you're frustrated, but again, I've already addressed several of the points you're circling back to and can only do so much until the other mod gets back to me.

[Rhettmatic]

I was the mod who submitted for your suspension. You're right I should have PMed you an explanation. We would usually do that after Howard has ruled on the request, and that was an oversight on my part.

Otherwise I have no regrets about asking for a suspension. You trolled the Raptors board two days after another mod had warned you for trolling the Raptors board. Given your colourful past of warnings, a 7-day seemed appropriate.

Perhaps you should stop trolling other boards if you want to stop getting warned/suspended.

[Howard Mass]

I make final Suspension and ban decisions.

so, if there is a problem, just look to me.